EPISODE 100 - "The Flash" Movie Review & Discussion

If you could go back in time and save someone you loved, would you? Would you still do it if it meant unraveling the fabric of the universe? This is the core question at the center of the long-awaited DC film: “The Flash.” Starring Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton and Sasha Calle, IN OUR 100TH EPISODE, we answer the question of “Was the ten years wait for this movie worth it?” Was this truly one of the greatest superhero movies of all time? Come with us as we talk about all the moments, characters and performances that made this movie what it is. Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!

In the wake of the tragic death of Power Ranger actor Jason David Frank, from this episode on, the number for the Suicide and Crisis Prevention Hotline will be displayed here: 9-8-8. It's that simple. Call or text that number to be instantly sourced to a crisis counselor. Speak with someone today if you feel alone and need help.

00:00 Intro 
05:05 Kraven The Hunter Trailer  
11:42 Linda Hamilton Joins Stranger Things Season 5   
14:59 First Images for Netflix’s “Avatar: The Last Airbender”  
17:16 Marvel Regains Right to the Hulk and Exits Comic-Con 
22:37 “The Flash” Movie NON-SPOILER DISCUSSION  
42:01 “The Flash” Movie FULL SPOILER RECAP & DISCUSSION 
01:22:52 Our Favorite Moments, Characters, Scenes and Where was Grant Gustin?  
01:49:50 Celebrating 100 Episodes, Signing Off & Topic For Next Week (Secret Invasion Episode 1 & Nick Fury in the MCU) 

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In the wake of the tragic death of Power Ranger actor Jason David Frank, from this episode on, the number for the Suicide and Crisis Prevention Hotline will be displayed here: 9-8-8. It's that simple. Call or text that number to be instantly sourced to a crisis counselor. Speak with someone today if you feel alone and need help.

Transcript

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It's the podcast friends podcast Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the project infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite an ever expanding multiverse of venom from movies, comics, TV shows, video games we have. And we'll always have you covered for 100 episodes in the future and 100 episodes today because it's our 100th episode. Funny enough, yeah. And we're here to talk about possibly the greatest movie of all time. We deserve this. Yes. We did this twice out. We didn't do this to ourselves. We're going to talk about 2020 threes. The Flash, if we had started this podcast two weeks, two weeks earlier, or? Yep, yeah, two weeks earlier. Across the spider verse would have been 100 episodes. Yep. But it said this. Yeah. Was it good? We'll see. We'll talk about it. So yeah, we're here to talk about the flash. A movie that is was 10 years in the making. Yeah. Starring Of course, as your Biller, as Barry Allen, Michael Keaton, as Bruce Wayne, Batman, the debut of Sasha kaii, as Super Girl and a litany of other people. Not a lot of other people actually not Yeah, it's really bad. It's really not that big of a cast a handful of other people, a handful of other people and some, some of the other things that we're going Yeah, so we're gonna talk about that. There's definitely a discussion to be had about this movie that definitely exists outside of like, what actually happened in it because, man, it's, it's not good. It's not good. Yeah. We, I don't think we have to wavering of a spectrum of opinion on this movie. I do like this movie a little bit more than you do. And I think there is a couple of saving graces, but just as a whole of this being the 10 years in the making product that we got, I just I don't think this is this is probably what they wanted. And, you know, a lot of times the the narrative will go what's the most controversial comic book movie? This very well might be one of the most controversial convict movies ever released. Like this probably has one of the broadest spectrums of people that absolutely despise this movie. And people that absolutely are like this is one of the yes, this is one of the greatest comic books movies of all time. And as many people have been saying over the last couple of days, there is some brave warriors are talking about. There is no in between, unfortunately, in this new era of life that we live in there, there, you can only think this is the greatest thing ever. The worst thing ever. There can't be something that was just okay, there can't be anything that's nuanced. There can't be specific things to pull from So yeah, we're going to dive into those however, yeah, I think I think we do a really good job of that with a lot of different things. I mean, you look at the the catalog of movies that we reviewed over time, like even things like venom and Morbius and and matrix resurrections. Like we had good you know, engaging discussions about and found the good in this and like you said, there is some good stuff in this movie, but as far as I think what this movie ended up doing and it was what kind of I was afraid of was were these really bizarre kind of celebrity reviews that were coming in Yeah, from from people that usually don't offer their opinions on on things that often when you think about Tom Cruise apparently saw this movie and couldn't stop right Well, that was the big one and then who was the person that quote unquote, saved cinema in the last two years? Yeah, it was Tom Cruise. So people are immediately like, well, he already knows movies. And you know, just yesterday the embargo for Mission Impossible dead reckoning came out and the reviews have been very positive for that. So those things coupled you're like alright, well, we're gonna listen to Tom Cruise about this. Then Stephen King came out and said that this movie is over the moon I just think that's because Andy machete bought you know, directed it Yeah, directed it so obviously he was gonna help his friend out. And like Terry crew, like just random people were seeing this movie and I'm like, is this like a marketing ploy? Like, or is this real? Like, why are these random people just seeing this movie and just being we get told this is the greatest thing ever. So I think the biggest compliment for this movie is also the biggest criticism I have. And that there's a bones of not a decent not a good I think there's the bones of like eight absolutely incredible superhero, not only superhero movie, I think there's a bones of actually a pretty good just movie in here, somewhere hidden in here. But I don't know where it is. I don't know where it got lost. But that's what happens is when you're making something for 10 years, yeah, exactly. So we're gonna to break that down and so much more about the flash but first we do have a little bit of news. First and foremost we got a craven the hunter trailer. So the Aaron Taylor Johnson led Spider Man universe adjacent movie has got its first full trailer and I don't I'm in urine. I told you this I think it's astounding that all these Spider Man universe adjacent movies that feature different characters and locations all still somehow managed to look the same. This has the same type of tone and atmosphere as Venom did the same tone and atmosphere as Morbius did. Like this is just apparently like what this is like this site has something to do with Spider Man. Right? It's the it's the classic is your villain. Is he not a villain? We're gonna do that. Again. I mean, obviously they they're selling it on the antihero. And I'm fine with that, obviously, why I don't think people understand why would you market a solo movie around somebody that's just despicable or like just the horrible part. Like, obviously, you're gonna have a little bit more, you know, leaning over to the fact that it's not that simple. And he's, you know, he's had a dark past and these things have happened. Russell Crowe's his father, like there's a lot of things that go into factors that go into this. So looks, it looks dumb, it looks loud. It looks fun. That's all I can say about this. I don't really have violent, violent. Yeah, so this movie is rated R so obviously, veteran one was definitely rated PG 13. Blade both were they both were rated PG 13 Morbius as well as rated PG 13. So this is the first R rated one. Why Venom two, I you know what I take that back about Venom two, I know exactly why Venom two wasn't rated PG rated R. And that's because it needed to set up Spider Man No way home. This movie takes the swing rated R and it is pretty brutal. Like there are some like he uses a bear trap to kill somebody by the man he knows off. So there's some pretty pretty brutal things in here. But it I don't know how far this is gonna go in terms of plot the question you need to ask, is this going to be as good as Venom? Or is it going to be as bad as Morbius? I guess this is where this movie's gonna live? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that's exactly where it's gonna live. Sort of something that comes out about it that we haven't seen. And maybe, I mean, maybe the our rating is that like maybe that maybe that's enough to differentiate it. And we're both fans of Aaron Taylor Johnson, and what he can potentially bring to this role. But it's the same issue I have with all of these movies. Like, I'd rather just see Aaron Taylor Johnson against Spider Man. It's simple that they're taking all these time, money and resources. And you know, what's funny is? See, I have to ask this question, too, is I have to stop myself sometimes about thinking about myself is not a general audience. I'm not a general general, we're not general audience watchers, were people that go in with preconceived notions and knowledge about these movies. So I think for people like us, we would have been cool if they would have pulled all these resources and just bought an Andrew Garfield back and just had them be these just be more of those movies in a different universe, versus like, we're just getting the solo movies that are amounting to nothing, it seems like at this point, because we already did the thing. We already did no way home. So this is after. So I just think they committed to this. And they said, well, it's too late. We got to keep pumping these out. And people are still seeing these movies for all intensive purposes. So far. Yeah, at least the Sony ones. Right. And, you know, and I mean, I guess the thing that's kind of working out in their favor versus like, what's going on with the flash is they're relatively lower budget. Right? Yeah. Then then say the Flash was, like Morbius didn't make a bajillion dollars. But it was still relatively low budget enough that they made some money off of it. Yeah, I mean, and then subsequently lost a bunch of money when they released it. But I mean, Venom, both Venom movies made quite a bit of money. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, you're right. People are seeing these. Maybe these types of movies do appeal to a more general audience. Sure. Because there's not a lot you don't need to have, you know, this spider knowledge before. It's just these. You don't even need to really have superhero knowledge. You just need to go in and just kind of turn your brain off and learn the character character, which is it and they're not overly complicated to know. They're not they're not these overly complex things that need to interconnect in Ituri with things, they're just things that kind of happened. You know, my only conceit for that is the weird ending of post credit scene and Morbius obviously, the post credit scene and Venom but the post Korean credit scene and vendor Mike and by the Morbius one is just I can't believe they did that to this day. It's just insanity that they were able to even think about pulling that off. They're probably going to do I think they're going to do a movie. So I guess we'll end with this what's the what's the end game for these? I don't even know anymore. I've lost track of it. I thought I had an idea. But now that's seemingly increasingly less likely that we're gonna get all these guys together for Andrew Garfield lead. I mean, that's what I thought the whole thing was was all of these guys just all these things took place in that universe and that they were just gonna, they're gonna have to fight him at some point, which would have probably played, especially how popular he got after that movie came out. Yeah. It seemingly something he was open to doing as well. So I don't know what happened there. Maybe it's a confusion thing. Like I said, I don't think they wanted to confuse the general audience by having multiple versions of a character on the big screen at the same time. Even though Batman is going to do that. The next year, or the next five years. So in potentially insane amount of waves. Yeah, right. Even more than which I don't think it is gonna be more than we thought. I think. No spoilers for the flash, but I think they're gonna dead whatever their plans were for that. I hope so. Yeah. Otherwise, yeah, it's gonna get it's gonna you're gonna get nuts. It's gonna get nuts. So yeah, I mean, this the best way I can explain this movie and movies like it are harmless. I feel like I feel like they're totally harmless. I feel like they're not huge, massive budget. They're not seemingly tied to anything. They're just they are unless they are unless they are right. There students, they're too stupid for me to care. Right? Yeah, they don't bother me in the least bit. So we have some stranger things news. So for those of you who may not pay attention to what happens with these shapes, thing, seasons, they always get like a big, a big guest star, right? There's always a big one, like a side character, whatever that's introduced. And I would assume that the person that they've casted for season five is going to be that so Linda Hamilton of Terminator fame has signed on to the insurance and things vibe. That totally makes sense. One of the odors of the 80s and 90s it I mean, I think it is super cool that you know, Arnold is the the action head obviously I mean Stranger Things I think takes a little bit more precedence because it's the thing essentially that's running the app right now it's the only it's one of the only things that's consistently bringing people back so it's just cool to see these classic actors kind of get in on that world and this is the last season two so this is going to be it is a big deal that she's there to maybe bestow some knowledge about how to do the blockbuster even though they have been doing the blockbuster TV for since 2016. Sheesh I can definitely see her being some type of like Black Ops she thinks she's either gonna be some like Black Ops military person or she's gonna be somebody's mom yeah, and they're gonna play it like they did with with Rudy and season two that could that could work but they also cut down so I have Wynonna Ryder already doing that doing that sort of cycle definitely see her be like for some reason like I think Linda Hamilton I think honestly, I'm pulling this from her last appearance in Terminator when like I just see her like pulling up like black kind of like jacket like dark rimmed sunglasses and she's like, here's what's going on in this situation like I'm in charge here like I definitely like that's the type of character I feel like she could definitely I mean the world is ending in the show like The literally the fabric of reality is being torn open. So anything can happen I mean, that's probably in my top three most anticipated things in the next two years so I cannot wait for to see how that shows ends. I mean, the the absolute that season four is gotta be one of the examples of like, just world stopping television like to the point where everybody and anybody who was talking about if you didn't see it, you couldn't talk about it because you couldn't spoil it like over the last couple of years. What other shows Game of Thrones had that? I think Stranger Things probably might be the king of that they'll over the last couple of years it's a battle definitely between that and Game of Thrones but just from a week to like obviously it drops it all the same time but I just remember that week when it drops like the second part when they did that last two two parts and then the reveal obviously one of the biggest reveals of that show was the those the true identity of the main villain like man just I remember where it was when I watched that like I think it's very rare that I can remember like, exactly what I was doing exactly where I was like exactly like the day like because it was fun. That Fourth of July weekend. It came out like man, that show is gearing up to have one of the biggest endings of any TV show. Oh, yeah, totally agreed. And like we said, we did a stream to things review we said it's right up there with the best seasons of TV if you can. Yes, phenomenal. We got speaking of Netflix things we got a little teaser trick and some first images for the live action Avatar The Last Airbender series. I'm not sure I'm on your heart out. No. And I'll say this like, that's a good honestly, it's a good comparison point to make. This looks like they're leaning into more of the anime stuff than that movie did. It's more colorful. Certainly from the Caesar images, the characters definitely seem to be more anime accurate compared to the movie. The characters are all age appropriate. Obviously, we don't have a ton to go on. Like there was no footage in the teaser trailer was literally just the nation symbols flashing and then the title card reveal. But you know, it looks the still images look look really cool. Yeah. I'm hopeful that the, like the visual effects hold up. Because that can kind of make or break a thing like this. But I'm looking forward to it. For sure. Netflix definitely has a lot of stuff going on. I mean, this all came from the to do event that they just had. And Netflix has a lot going for them right now. They have a little bit of steam, which I think they need especially since HBO max or max is kind of at a hold right now. Especially since you know two of your biggest shows just ended buried in succession. And then the idol is not performing. Apparently, I guess it is though. I guess people are watching but critically, it's being just absolutely destroyed. like Netflix kind of needed this right now. Like they needed this. Like, hey, Linda, Linda Hamilton is going to be in season five of Stranger Things. Here's your first look at avatar. So the Witcher is coming up, which was coming back and they were losing it when Henry Cavill walked out there. So yeah, they like we're just kidding. Oh, yeah, that was my other point was Black Mirror just came out, too. So Netflix has got a little steam going into you know, the summer of this year and then the end of this year, so yeah, yeah, I totally agree that we we talked about that when we talked about like the streaming wars, is that Netflix kind of needed? needed a way to do like Stranger Things helped Linksys unfortunately help tremendously. Yeah. But then once it's over, it's over. You know, so what's the thing that's what HBO Max did just so incredibly was the thing ended and then the thing started and then that thing ended but then the next thing started so they always had most watched television every Sunday. Yeah, and Disney plus is about to do that. Right. Secret Invasion starting. And then, you know, speaking of Marvel, the Hulk has been finally reverted back to Marvel Studios. They wasted no time in Oh, yeah, flexing that by putting the Incredible Hulk on Disney plus, both you and I find that movie to be quite underrated. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a it's a solid, like, again, no harm no foul solo project. It really for me, really showed the brutality of Hulk and kind of the duality the brutality and duality which unfortunately Dorton difficult to work with apparently mature Wes Anderson Yeah. And couldn't, couldn't continue in the MCU. But I quite liked his take on on Bruce Banner. I really bought his Bruce that I think that's my favorite thing about him. Like, I bought his Bruce as being like the, you know, the destruction of the man under the under the Hulk versus what I like about what I like about my mark Rathalos take is the is the science man like the actual scientists, part of Bruce Banner? Yeah, so I mean, we'll see what that means for the future and the Hulk in the MCU. And it retro actively makes flips going on with Captain America a brave new world. More sense. It's an economy timing something. Yeah. Which is something that you and I both kind of speculated on that there was going to be a lot of Hulk elements in this Captain America movie. And now with this news, that makes even more sense and we'll see you know, what that looks like past Captain America for if they're going to use this as kind of a launch point for the big finally, whole solo projects. Maybe they you know, this will Jonathan majors things that's a bit you know, beat a dead horse but things might change. I mean, the news we learned right before we hopped on is that Marvel skipping Hall H at Comic Con, which is kind of a big deal if that actually is kind of a big deal. So my what I told you before we hopped on was I think that is a direct correlation to that with with Jonathan major so I think what their original plan for whole each was like he was going to come and it's going to be like hey, we're it's time for like we're about to start announcing like you guys are gonna have a clear vision on what everything is and then all the stuff happened they were like oh crap, that was our whole this multiverse was the whole selling point for Halloween this year specifically because we are about to launch into like the meat and potatoes of Phase Five so obviously the writer strike also hinders that that's going to you know, these other studios had stuff already ready to go Barbara was all in production and everything except for Secret Invasion. It seems like and obviously the Marvel's I think they're comfortable waiting and just dropping a trailer on the day that doesn't need to compete with these other studios on like, you know, a Saturday for a Comic Con. So yeah, I'm not being there as a sign that maybe, you know, we push Secret Invasion out We kind of get the gap we just let it breathe for a little bit there's nothing that's coming after it and then we get to November we do the Marvel's and then you know by that obviously by November we're gonna know what we're probably gonna get a trailer for cat. Oh no, we can't lift this writer's strike keeps going. So, we'll see this is gonna get it's gonna be really interesting. Yeah, also, I mean, the Comic Con thing is also kind of indicative of, I think these these studios, you know, it's the three thing where were these gaming companies put were year after year pulling out of a three to do their own thing, because why am I sharing time with? Yeah, you know, not a competitor, but just another studio, when I can just my my brand is big enough that I can just host my own thing. And people will watch that instead of ComiCon giving me or E three giving me an hour and a half in a time slot. Right. You know, so I think maybe ComiCon could, hopefully it doesn't, but ComiCon could be falling the wayside the same way three sort of did this year where the three is obsessively done, eradicated. The last big year for Comic Con was 2019. That was the last like, you know, knockout punch year like, and what's insane to even think about because ComiCon takes place in watch the boy August, August, or July, something like that. It's been almost four years since Mahershala. Got announced his blade. And like, it's been four years since what else to happen there? What was the other big one that happened there? In 2019? Man, I mean, we were just getting like, you know, all the phase, the phase four stuff like we were getting ready like for this volti verschil tail. Obviously, we didn't know what everything was, but we just got some teasers for some things, but obviously it ended with the with the blade reveal. So times have changed like the internet kind of takes that job away from that ComiCon used to have so yeah, well, we'll scan to see how it folds out. But I don't think there should be as much panic because I you know, I took a quick scroll through scroll through Twitter and people were like, panicking like there was like a panic like like Marvel's not at all. Ah, like, I think it'll just be fine. I think they have a plan. Yeah, I definitely think they have a plan. I think that plan, like I said, is just going to be circulated. Like it's going to be focused purely on their own thing like it'll they'll do a I wouldn't even be surprised if it's not even a Disney thing. It might just be a Marvel Studios thing. Like, here it is. Here's the here's the big thing. Yep. So maybe a trailer for just one thing, right. Sort of that the flash dreaded run from it. So like we said this movie 10 years in the making, it was greenlit, this was going to be like it was greenlit initially as a flash and Cyborg movie, which tells you how long ago this thing was. So let's go back to 2016. Specifically, and you wrote, you actually should remember this. Do you remember the episode of The Flash? And they said, We're going to do this the Dow was actually you know what that was with Kevin Smith. That was DC fan dome. I forgot about that. That's like was one of the earliest iterations of DC fan dome. So I forget what episode of the flash that was, but it was like a bigger episode of The Flash. I just remember it was it was 2015 or 2016 2015. It was definitely Season Two of the flash. The Flash was in its swing. And Kevin Smith came out with who did he come out with Jeff John's who was the who was the head of DC. He was the Kevin Feige for DC at the time, which at the time makes perfect sense. I mean, he had been writing the most like prominent modern day stories for how many characters and I mean, he basically, you know, spearheaded the new 52, which is, you know, the modern, the most popular modern iteration of all those characters. So, Kevin Smith walks out, he says, All right, we are getting a Green Lantern movie. We are getting a Flash movie, we're getting an Aquaman movie, we're getting a Wonder Woman movie. And then it's all going to culminate in the Justice League next year. Guess how many of those movies got made? So I think he did. They announced the two parts of the Justice League they were going to do a part one and part two. Half of those movies got made the Suicide Squad I think we got a trailer for the Suicide Squad because it was it was getting ready about time for that movie to come out. But yeah, I remember that vividly. I just remember the passion that everybody was talking about like, and this was around the time that civil war was coming out. And one of the big complaints with Marvel was just like okay, we got our trailer we already had our trailer for Batman vs. Superman and the you know, the big thing was, hey, Marvel might be on the ropes a little bit because the most recognizable superhero characters are right outside of Spider Man are about to make their triumphant debut. And it looks darker, it looks more of a chore. These are things that I was saying at the time to like I'm like this is gonna be pretty cool. Cool. So we were supposed to get that cyborg solo project? I think so. Like I said, half of those projects were made. Yeah. As I remember was attached to it immediately any friend, I think, yeah. And then I mean, the just, we could do a whole episode just on this movie itself and what, you know what it took to get off the ground. I mean, this goes all the way back to Funny enough, I told you this. So Laura Miller, obviously, across the spider verse fame, were tasked with writing the first treatment with the opportunity of directing it. And instead, they opted to direct solo, which, obviously, that that also had its own problems. So it's just funny how that worked out for them that this movie that they that they wrote a treatment for, and we're going to direct comes full circle 10 years later, and they put out arguably the best superhero movie of the year, up against this flash movie, which is, which is really crazy. So Seth Graham Smith was going to direct this movie. And he was this was going to be his directorial debut. He was a producer of Pride and Prejudice, the Pride and Prejudice movie and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Slayer. There were a couple, James Wan was given the option of the flash or Aquaman. He obviously shows Aquaman chose Aquaman that decision and the big director that was attached to it of new Star Wars A was a year but yep, yep. And I remember that was who I just definitively thought was gonna direct this movie. At some point. It was this was around, I think this was around like 2016 2017. Like he was he was at that point, the Flash guy, like we knew he was going to direct the flash. And then Justice League came out 2017. And then things just started kind of changing. And obviously, it's a direct response we've already went into, we've already talked about the circumstances behind the 2017. Justice League, obviously, in 2021, we got our we got our Snider cut of the Justice League. But all in that time, there's a limbo for Ezra Miller. And he's making or they're making the fantastic beast movies at the time. But there's just this limbo period. And what did we get? We got Wonder Woman in 2017, we got Aquaman, also in 2017, or the beginning of 2018. I think that was 2018. So we got augmented 2018. You also get Shazam and 2018, or 2017 2018. But obviously, the one movie that's just not coming out as the flick that actually, you know, is even more interesting that from that gap, like the 2017 to 2020 gap, like this movie didn't come out. Like I don't know what happened in that time. And it's not like you're dealing with, you know, you know what, actually, now that I say that, I do think they were contending with that TV show a little bit. And there was a little contention because they knew they couldn't just release anything because obviously the TV show had a big following. And I remember an era of you know, the Arrowverse specifically that flash TV show like people were talking about it like like everyday, like people were talking about the show like weekly like as this is a show that you needed to watch. I mean, we also can know from because of what happened my arrow that there was contention with the phones because Warner Brothers made arrow. Yep. Right. The Suicide Squad and Deathstroke out of area. Yep, that arrow. And notoriously the one character that was missing from the arrow verse was Batman that he was the was the one note that you mean had Superman for the longest time? Yep. Right. Until, until things started happening with Henry Cavill, obviously, and then magically, The CW now has a new Superman around that same time around 2016. So we are in today's day and age Schneider cut comes out. in that meantime, however, and I don't I don't even want to dive into this for too long as it really starts to have some legal troubles in this time. He'll travel nicely, right. And that's that's it? That's all I'm gonna say on that. If you don't have anything I don't really know. I mean, it's it's the only thing I'll say about it is it is perhaps in ignorant amount of support on Warner Brothers part to keep this thing going. And to keep Ezra Miller on board. Yeah. And and really not recommend Ezra Miller in any way. Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any consequence that we know of. It. Obviously something could have but, you know, it's not like a consequence for like, you know, doing something bad in school like, yeah, your consequence for doing something poorly as a professional is termination for the most like and there was things happening before the things that happen. Yeah, earlier this year. In late last year, right, so I mean, they had plenty of time to, to address it and just chose not to. I have my own kind of backwards theory on why that is. And I think that's because this movie is underperforming. And I think they're going to be able to point to Ezra Miller and be like, this is why this thing underperformed and it gives them an excuse to not bring as or Miller back in the future. I just think they, despite numerous attempts to promote this movie, as the best thing ever, I think, deep down, they knew what this was. And they would be able to look at Ezra Miller and be like, That's why this movie failed. And which, which makes me feel like that's why they kept Ezra Miller on board this entire time, because they need needed a scapegoat for this was this disaster. Yeah, that is unfolding. I'm not saying it's totally unfolded. But based on the first four days, yeah, box office, and you're talking about a box office, when there's essentially two holidays in that weekend, you have June T and then you have Father's Day in that weekend. And both those days didn't help this movie at all. versus, you know, I hate to keep using Topcon as the example but Top Gun was running through multiple holidays, months after this movie had come out and was just performing at all the holiday weekends.$55 million over the over the four day weekend is it's a it's a visible. There's a movie that came out last year under the same studio that we thought underperformed, but it's doing better. And that's black Adam, which I didn't even think I was gonna say I thought this movie and a summer release. And this is the this is the last movie before Mission Impossible is the next big one. In what three weeks? And yeah, about three to three weeks, it's coming out. You would think this whole month, like that whole three week span, you're just going to perform and as movies gonna make money for that. That's not the case. So it's kind of, you know, you would think that this movie had kind of commercial appeal. Sure, at the very least, I mean, it's the flash it's it's a recognized universe, like people are aware of the University of you know, the Snyder reverse quote, unquote, like Keaton, as back as Batman is the first film appearance of Supergirl. Yep. You know, this movie had, I thought, at least certain appeal to it. And but whether it's people really not being on board with Ezra Miller, whether it's people not really being into this universe anymore, whether it's the superhero fatigue kind of aspect to it, or, and people not really knowing what the what the drawing point of this movie was now, did the hype train kill this movie a little bit? So what was it a month ago, month and a half, we've been hearing this almost two months now we've been hearing this thing, because I forget where they showed it. There was some big event where they showed this movie. They were they had been calling this movie like, you know, fate. Like whoever got into that press screening. Like, people were saying, this is one of the greatest movies and like that had been the only thing we hadn't been hearing the inverse of that the only thing we had been hearing is like, this is the greatest superhero movie of all time. Like, this is genuinely one of the best movies of the year. And I've been like, our, you know, obviously had my skepticisms. But at the same time, I was curious, I was like, Maybe this movie does have some pretty cool moments. And, you know, regardless of the Ezra Miller situation, regardless of the studio situation, if you get some cool moments in a movie, that's a selling point like that, I mean, the flip side of that, too, was I feel like there was this disconnect between what people were saying and what we were seeing. And because we both win these trailers first are coming out, we were just like, I don't see it. I don't, I'm not seeing the best superhero movie. And I'm not like what is wowing me here, right, that I'm like, so like, there's this weird disconnect of of like, you know, people are saying this thing and then like, what I'm actually seeing on my eyes, and I was just not like when we did an episode of the first trailer came out. I think my first reaction was, I didn't really feel anything. Like it just felt like yeah, let's take the Batman trailer for the first Batman trailer. Right? So it's 2020 Yup, it's it's probably it's the I think it's middle of the pandemic 2020 If DC fandom comes out, I remember vividly I was like I was just watching DC fandom the whole time. And I was like an all day event got to see some cool creators another was that as your Miller was there and it gets to the end Matt or Matt Reeves comes out they do their their little talk and then they get to the trailer and I'm like, wow. And like it's just a wow in the fact that I knew the filmmaking the filmmaking quality was high I knew the performances were going to be you know, highly touted I knew the director of this movie was somebody that wasn't get like it was a privilege for them to get this person to work on this movie, not the inverse actually. Usually it's like a director's privilege to work with the studio for this one for me. It's a It's a privilege for the for the studio to get this type of director. And then obviously, the big thing we needed to see was how Robert Pattinson was in the cape and cowl. The second, he said on vengeance, and he beat the brakes off of that guy. I knew, like I knew, it's like, that is a direct flick. This trailer just got me on board for this thing. I didn't feel that for any of these trailers. Like I kind of knew what I was getting into with all these. And obviously, you know, the thing I don't want to say, but it could be as the fatigue might be catching up, and I'm gonna keep doubling down on the point. And I feel like I keep getting proved, in my point, the days of just being able to release like movies like Ant Man, chronometer, movies like this are getting slimmer, and slimmer and slimmer. Like, you can't just release something and say, This is a superhero movie. And everybody be like, alright, this is cool. Like, we're gonna write this differently. Because it's a superhero movie superheroes, not a genre of movie. These are still movies at the end of the day. So the days of like, low quality, but the fact that they're superheroes and movies, gonna save it a little bit for your hardcore fans of that character, or coming to an end, in my opinion. And I mean, we're gonna talk about that, especially as it relates to DC, because I told you this after we saw the movie like, Darren, Darren a very concerning position. Sure, right now. Yep. Because, I mean, we'll talk about it, we got to talk about this movie a little bit first. So just without spoiling, without spoiling anything. This movie is just the flash Barry Allen is, is not happy with the idea that his mom died. So he decides to run back in time and change events and that is his mother lives. It's Flashpoint. Flashpoint, you know, flashpoint is in so doing, he runs into a past version of himself. And they embark on a mission to then stop General Zod who has who has reappeared not reappeared but appeared for the first time in this parallel timeline. In so doing, they recruit Michael Keaton's Batman and Sasha K. Supergirl to stop Zod. And Barry learns a lesson that you can't can't mess with the timeline marry, because the time time messes back. Yep. All in all, you know, I think as remember is, is good to great. And this I think, I think they hit moments where the acting is quite good. I have some I have some bits where I'm like, I see. And this is something that we talked about when we were walking out in the movie theater. I don't think there should ever be in anybody's doubt that Ezra Miller is a good to great actor. I think they are actually extremely talented. And they have a track record to prove their talent. It's just packages in this and one of my and this has been one of my gripes since 2014. I just I've never seen and this isn't even a grant Gustin issue I've just never seen him as Barry Allen like I've always said he's like much more akin to how Wally West acts now how Barry Allen acts. So I've never understood how you know, you go into your studio meetings you go into your casting meetings and that's your maybe it wasn't even their first choice to play Barry Allen but I just don't know how that you land on you land on them and play Barry Allen Yeah. And that's not their fault at all. That's yeah, I think as our ability like I said is quite as varying degrees of Good Good to Great and this I'm not as crazy about the the young Barry Allen performance that they give. I think Michael Keaton is good in this he's better than I thought he was gonna be. I was really anticipating and kind of going through the motions. Yeah, Michael Shannon asked performance. Sasha Kai aid is great. Not given you enough to do or enough to say and I mean, like we talked about it, the cast is is pretty symbolic. Yeah, that's just that's pretty much where that movie shows Henry Allen and Nora Allen and then it is just virus West for maybe five minutes of screen time five to 10 minutes of screen time and athletic but Aflac for a bit. And I'm gonna I have some stuff to say about that Ben Affleck. And then I guess we could just launch right into the movie for the rest of the people in here. Yeah, and Yeah, cuz I like i said i overall thoughts. I mean, we'll we'll a lot of this stuff we're gonna dive deeper into like the the CGI obviously is just a disaster. Like that's not even being facetious about it. Like it's legitimately bad like It's like people like you remember when people were doing the like the screen grabs of Spider Man No way home. Do you suspect that? Specifically the the image of flash in the in the New York kind of the green New York green screen. This movie is worse than that. Yeah, on numerous occasions. There's just some some baffling cinematic CGI choices being made throughout this movie. And like I said, the story is a lot of nothing. I had I had to comment for you like who is this movie for? You know, when we originally found out that the Man of Steel kind of story was being adapted to be the the crisis event for this movie, like bringing Zod back like that was felt hollow she felt hollow and it played out very hollow. Yeah, in the movie, like, there was no surprise. The only thing I'll say about it is there was the bones of an interesting thing between Cara and Zara. Yep, that they never did, because they needed. It's not a bit they needed to play it for. It's a platform they used to play it for, but again, just fell hollow. And you know, it's funny, I went home, and I just threw on Man of Steel. And like, you know, whatever you say about Man of Steel that just actually feels like a real movie that was made. I think that's another thing I can say about this movie. This movie doesn't feel like organic or real. Or like there's like, you know, human beings working on this thing. It just feels like something that was digitally printed to be out. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think like there's if you get Michael Shannon a little more motivated man make the movie. More about her and him. If you can find a way to do that, in a flash movie, I don't think you can probably just have to make it a super all Earth superhero movie, which probably could have been pretty good. So that was a really interesting kind of plot point. Because before we jump in, as well as the plot surrounding Zod and Cara, is she she has the blood that can extend the Kryptonian Right, right. Yeah, she has the codecs in Princeton in her in this universe instead of it being KalEl and, and the main timeline so like you said, that's a that's a pretty interesting topic. It's very Flashpoint it's very like the direct thing that direct things that Barry did like the direct thing he did like to like the the only thing I'll say about it, it's it's so super specific. It's super specific that like how convenient that is her instead of instead of him this time, yeah, but besides that, I mean, just some beats in this movie. So the opening Not a fan. People liked it. Some people liked it. I I didn't like it that much. Yeah, I mean, good things. Batman stuff. The Batman stuff and we're gonna we're gonna talk about that. The suit. I actually like it. I actually liked the new flash shoot. I like that was one of the first things in the first trailer. That I was like, I liked that suit. Yeah, a ton. Yep. And I like it. Yeah, it's cool. So it's a I guess it's a way in tech shoot, I guess Bruce helped him build that suit. It dissipates his energy which actually another solid plot point, like screenwriting point like they didn't just ignore to the end of the movie, so I actually did appreciate that. But yes, the big conceit was his lightnings yellow now why is it not blue? Obviously because some of the you know, comic flash fans are upset. Why is this speedsters? Like, why is Barry Allen's lightning blue? And they fixed it? They just said the suit the way it dissipates the energy it turns it yellow instead of blue, which is actually pretty interesting. So opening this movie, you know, Justice League shenanigans, Batman's shenanigans ensue. You know, the rest of the Justice League is called Superman's too busy being kicked out of this universe for whatever reason. He's He's saving people from a volcano. Volcano, how convenient. Berry Berry helps Bruce. A hospital collapses. And then this this is what I knew we were going a little bit of trouble at just so they did the press screenings. And I guess before the press screenings, they were told that this is an unfinished product, but you're still going to see the whole movie. Apparently what those professors are saying now is that was the exact same version that they saw, which is extremely concerning. So yeah, the be the CGI. So basically, as I say, a bunch of babies and a nurse. It looks bad. It looks so bad that not even like in a in like, there's no charming way. There's no it just it looks bad. And looks like a video game looks like a video game. Like I don't even know if they rendered this thing or if they even went through the last steps to you know, make anything look like human. Like it just looks poor. And I'm just It's baffling that they were comfortable releasing that. So opening sequence and Sue's like in the suit. Yeah, like when he's looking around. Looks very rubbery. Yeah, even when he's running to Gotham from Central City like you can tell like he's running against this I would have you can tell he's running against like, like his feet is not matching the ground movement, if that makes sense. So which is really crazy, because I love I love everything about him running except running. In this movie. This movie actually has a pretty good point about you know, the way people complain about how he runs. I'm gonna get into it later once we talked about Youngberry but I think there's a reason for the way that he runs the way he runs and I think it's like a balance thing like he he figured out this is the best way for me not to fall flat on my face. I just run normal and I love the the. I mean, when we first see him running the movie, I love that when he puts his foot down, and the world warps around him and I'm like, Oh, this these are cool. Like there's the bones of a really interesting movie in here. Yeah. So yeah, saves saves the babies. puts one in a microwave. The the meme of the week talks to talks about the mental health of the Justice League which is poor. Then we pick up with Bruce with Ben Affleck Batman and Batman action sequence and it is handled pretty dang well. Falcone is idiot kid Falcone is idiot kids so on sold something It's so insane to me that he has how many appearances now? He has what what does he have seven appearances and not a single one diversity? We're not counting 2017 Justice League so Batman vs. Superman Suicide Squad justice the Justice League this there's two more right? Yep. What I'm missing something. I don't remember now. But he's in he's, I think he's in two other things if I'm if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. But yeah, he just, I mean, always. I will always double down on the fact that Ben Affleck is my favorite Bruce Wayne. I think he plays that and he SPOILER ALERT probably has the best line in this movie as well. You would think they would give it to key in but now they gave it to they gave it to Ben Affleck which is awesome but yeah, he's great the actions tight it you know what that felt like to me? I don't know if you've ever heard the new 52 Quarter vowels like the beginning of it. It felt like the felt like the opening to that because it just picks up and he's just that man because usually what they did with the new 52 was all these characters like they did a whole bunch of origins but he was just that man already like good with with like Robins but like it just picking up with him on the bike or in the car I forget if he's in the wing in the in the comic but this he's just picking up on the bike, taking them out that just like a like an armored car rolling through the city goes off the cliff. And who's there to save them. Finance I this is wrong of being saved. But like the more I've seen of galgut data is Wonder Woman, the less I've liked her every single time I've seen her like I liked her so much and just in the in Batman vs Superman. Like I just maybe I think we don't give them enough credit. You know, obviously Wonder Woman she's great. And then you get to decide your cut. She's still pretty she's still good. I don't like the dialogue she had in in the Schneider cut for the big. It just why just show the sequence like why she thought she doesn't need to talk over this. Obviously, Wonder Woman 84 came out, which I still will say I really liked the opening of Wonder Woman 84 I think that opening is very, very superhero opening sequence set in the era. It's good. It's good stuff. And then you get the lifeless cameo and she's and fury of the gods spoiler alert. And then you get this cameo. And I'm like, you're just kind of there all the time. Now you're just you're not serving a purpose. Besides Ex Machina is at this point. Yeah. Which is just, it really is sad for her character. Maybe this isn't even a Galaga dot issue just just feels like they don't know what to do with her. But she says yes to all these. Well, she's she's one of we'll talk about it in a little bit. But she's one of the one of the first of many soulless cameos in this movie. But at least I can say in her in her in her favor that she actually interacted Exactly. compared to the others that we'll talk about later. Right. So yep, she she saves them lasses. The truth Batman. Fun, funded, funded. And yeah, so now the movie kind of takes off. So basically, the the inciting incident is the it's the trial. It's the trial of Henry Allen, we're going to do one more plea deal. Bruce helped him get the footage from the grocery store kind of rendered. Unfortunately, he does not lift his head up. So they cannot confirm the alibi that he was at the grocery store when Nora Allen was murdered. So unfortunate. PCs Iris West. I do quite like the actress that plays Iris West. And I wish he was in this movie for a whole lot more. And I wish if they were going to know this was the last movie, why not just do their relationship in this movie? Why not do a lot of things in this movie? Yeah. So yeah, basically, she's just like, man, what if you can go back and do this and Barry's like, Ah, maybe I can go back and do this. But before this, the big thing is he goes to the house, he just goes back to his childhood house where his mother was murdered. And again, another cool speedster bit where he's just he's just running on the ground. And then the lightnings picking up and he just kind of takes off and here's the thing goes into the chrono ball. How do you like the concept Kolkata I think it is a pretty decently cool concept like this, like instead of it just being you show up somewhere that's not yours. I do like the fact that he can kind of like, rewind stop. Yeah, it's like he has like a VCR essentially, like, it's actually pretty, I think it's a pretty interesting concept. Like he's like on a treadmill. Right? He's on a timeline treadmill. Exactly. So he's like in a dome, and like, he's like running through a coliseum of all the events. So this is the only thing that I'll say for the CGI. That was what I think he's talking about with the unfinished I think, that I can live with because I'm fine within the chrono bowl piece of the speedforce that like, it looks like this. Like it looks like not real yet. It doesn't look like it's finished, which is kind of, you know, it's an interesting concept. Unfortunately, that that spilled out into the rest of the movie, that CGI that was in there. And it also could have just looked better, even if it was supposed to be warped, right, it's still kind of looks better, right? So it still didn't look good. Right? So Barry kind of peers a day earlier when he was saving the hospitals. So he goes to Bruce, and he's just like, hey, Bruce, I think I can save my I can save my mom. I could save your parents if you want. Like I save everything. And then he delivers the line of the movie. Hold up. Let me find it real quick. We need to we need to get wait music 100 episodes do you think we would get wait? Apparently not yet. But the line that he delivers to them ever so expertly, in my opinion. And this is this really just kind of if this is the last time I've ever seen Ben Affleck as Batman. This, I think is a incredible way to go out. Bomb. So Barry says hey, I can you know we don't need to feel this pain anymore for lack of a better term. And then you know versus the very, very the scars we have. They make us who we are. We're never meant to go back and fix them. There's nothing broken with you that needs to be fixed. Take it from an old guy who has made a lot of mistakes. Don't live in your past live your life. Don't let your tragedy define you. Yes, it's good stuff. It defines, you know, Bruce Wayne as a character. It goes back to that comic book relationship. And one of the best lines in comics is, you know, when Bruce tells Barry like you the same thing that happened to me happened to you, but you turned out as this beacon of hope not like not what I turned into like if my parents died, I wish I would have turned out like you instead of the way that I turned out. And I I really love that. I think that came from the button event or from the end of Flashpoint. I can't remember which one but just a really great, really good line and I love the relationship. I'm going to be seeing more and more of it. Yep. Well, that's the other problem I have in this movie is a lot of felt like a lot of berries, character development, and a lot of like, his rapport building with Batman specifically happened off screen. Right. And this is an to me, that's more of a universal issue. I don't know. Yeah, it's absolutely a universal issue. Right. But um, he doesn't listen. Yep, very. He's like, You know what I can like, you know, I can fix this, like I can do this runs back in time. Yup. He's like, I have a plan like, Well, the thing is, Bruce is like, you can't interact with your pastor, like all the, you know, the backs of the future rules, which is Back to the Future is actually super important in this movie. He says, All right, well, he goes to Iris and I was just like, you know, maybe I don't need to interact with anybody. Maybe if I just make sure she has canned tomatoes in the first place. My dad never has to go to the store. And this random person on the street doesn't have to murder my mother. Definitely isn't the Reverse Flash. Oh my god. Yeah, let's, let's talk about the reverse flash in the room. Or not in the urn on the room. The dark flash, buddy, but yeah, so there's that element of it. But there's also just her murder is never solved by this movie. Yep. Yep. Like all of that happens, and you never get to the it's not a post credit scene. Nothing. Nothing. It's so baffling. The Post credit scene we do get is a little little street shenanigans with drunk. Drunk Aquaman drunk Jason. Absolutely not. Well, I show up in a scene where the Justice League is assembled. But I will show up in a scene where I'm stumbling drunk throughout Central so you showed up drunk on their will and then somebody bring me my camera quick. Yeah, he was going into the Aquaman filming and he's just like, Am I too soon? Come too soon. That was fun. That was a fun. Yeah, that was a fun little Yeah. I mean, Jason just just it's just extending the the legacy of Jason Momoa is just this charisma like like everything he's and he's just effortlessly good and bright. Is he a good actor? I think he is. Questions can be can be asked. So yeah, it goes. So he goes into the chrono bowl as being in the chrono bowl, though that shoves him out. Yeah. What do you do in it? This is my Chrono vol boss. Yeah, get the Stefan thing a jumpscare jumpscare or jumpscares any machetes like I did a horrible I did two horror movie pushes him out. He arrives. Am I too soon? Too soon. So he will Hear while he fixes it, he goes back, he makes sure they have the candidate tomatoes. And when he's trying to run back this, this dark flash pushes him out of the out of the out of the chrono bowl. And he arrives when he is 18. So 10 years I think is 2023 2013. So, so this Barry Allen is 28. So he goes back to 2013. There was a movie that came out in 2013. In this universe, the first one actually, yeah. So yeah, he goes to the house. jumpscares Nora, Nora is just like, I'm monkey. I love you. You're back. And this is where the bug again. So another part of the skeleton of a really great movies in here too. And it's the relationship between him and his mother. It is it is great. I do like the actress they picked to play his mother. And, you know, that is a piece that I do genuinely feel in this movie. Like something that like you know, it works, it plays you understand how much he misses her. And actually my favorite line from the movie is a counter to young berry not feeling that yet. But yeah, they they go back. His father's there. And he's like, cool. Everything's everything's cool. However, stupid 18 year old young berries there and he's like, Oh, crap. Yep, yeah, typical, you know, beats himself. And he has to figure out a way to explain it away. And then he also figures out that not only is today the day, but today's the day, he gets his power, right? So he has to make sure that Youngberry gets his powers so that, you know, it doesn't cause a thing where he loses his powers and can't go home. Right. So they set that up, right? Because he obviously he wouldn't have been in the crime lab. If his mother never died, he would have never gotten into criminal justice. So he goes to the they take him to the crime lab. He's just like, alright, young bear. You're gonna get doused in the chemicals. He's like, That's not too bad. Then you're gonna get struck by lightning. He's like, Excuse me. I'm gonna get what? So yeah, he gets struck by lightning. It goes through you know, original recipe Barry goes through young very young Barry's got to speed it works. Oldbury lost the speed. Oh, no. So yeah, they try. They try the phasing doesn't work. And then probably one of the most notable comedic scenes from this. He tries to go into his launch into his run, and then he's just galloping throughout the corridor in the central city PD. I thought that was funny. That's funny. Yeah. good laugh out of that. And then coincidentally enough, not only was this the day that he got his powers, but it's also the day Zod invaded. What a what an insane. Crazy, like, what a crazy day but a crazy week. So Zod is invading. Like I'm looking for the last living Kryptonian and Hezbollah or Barry Allen's like, we got to find Superman, like Superman will save this. But then he can't find there's no traces of Clark Kent anywhere. So he's like, Alright, next best thing. I gotta go find Batman. Yeah, because Batman will know what to do. Right? So it goes to Wayne Manor to find Bruce Wayne why this is Wayne Manor look different this way. Marin Manor looks like a Tim Burton movie. That's it looks very gothic. Yeah. He gets there. And he's like, hello, Bruce. Bruce. Bruce Lee. Bruce. You there. Yep. And lo and behold, it's Michael Keaton old man key and beating the crap out of you got that in the movie, too. They were like intentionally beating the crap out of Ezra Miller the whole movie. Just old Barry was just one after another just either had blood on his face or just or? Yeah, Barry would have blood on his face. He would get punched he would get throat stuff thrown at him. He would throw up like was that a gag? Or like? I don't know. Like, it was that scene where I noticed I was like, He's been like, heard a lot at this point in the movie. I do a stop call back to Justice League with a frying pan. Yep. That where he does the slow motion turn. And then they confront Keaton. And he's like, help me tell me that men. Obi Wan Batman Kenobi you're my only hope. Right? Batman's like get lost. Yeah, actually, let's eat some spaghetti spaghetti and then I'm going to explain the multiverse to you and then you can get lost. Yeah, it's typical old man passes prime doesn't want anything to do with anything anymore. Gotham is the safest city it's ever been Good job. Good job. Michael Keaton. You might be the first Batman that you can say that for he just retired. Yeah, he's just like, man, job done. Yeah. Well, when you're murdering people like that as he did? Yeah. So yeah, he explains the multiverse to bury through spaghetti. I still think the best explanation of time travel and multiverse theory. Funny enough is when Jon Moxley shifted it and in with the broke out I still think that's the best way to do it. Michael Keaton basically launches into a similar bowl Daimler logic well they so basically they do the inverse of endgame and both movies call it out obviously, endgame did it retroactively but there's the Marvel branching timeline thing so has Bruce Bruce Banner said your past can't change your whatever he said like your past can't be changed by your new present future that Oh, also came from your pet whatever the crappy says when you time when you time travel back into the past that becomes your present. Right? Not your past. Right. But for this what this Bruce Wayne is saying is that time isn't linear. So, you know, you're changing your your past my changes in both ways both ways. It's not like there. It's not where he said it's retro causal. Yeah. Which is interesting. Which Which one you like, which one are you subscribed to? Hmm, I guess it honestly just depends on the universe. Like they both make sense within the confines of their own universe. I'm more kind of leaning like this one makes a little bit more sense. Yeah. Because, yeah, like if you go back and change of specific thing, it's going to ripple through time both ways. But it has to, because everything leading up to that moment inherently has to be different. And everything, following that moment, obviously has to be different. So that does make sense. And then he kind of further explains like, you're not also changing one singular timeline. Yeah, you're cause you're creating. It's a fulcrum. So now the old timeline is changed. And this new timeline is now created, right? And an intersect between where that old timeline decision point was me. Yeah, so interesting. That's actually not bad. Yeah, not bad. So but he's just like, No, will you help us? And he's like, No, absolutely not. I'm gonna go eat the spaghetti in my room. So you know, buried knowing that man knows where the Batcave is, goes down there, and he decides he's gonna launch to investigating Superman for himself. fails. Yeah, well, the thing is that the ship never landed in in Kansas, finds out he landed in Siberia instead. So he goes to they go to Siberia. But he does before this, I have a heart to heart with Bruce. He's just like, Bruce, if everyone's the same, I see you had an Alfred, that means you must have had parents that died. You know, and then Keynes, just like you know what? Amen. Amen. Before there's actually a really good scene between old and young Barry that I actually think is one of the highlights of this movie. Yeah. Basically, you know, young Mary's messing around, he's got powers now. He just can't keep it together. And Barry's just like, Do you not understand, like, what's happening? Like, literally, the fat like, your universe is going to end in a couple of days, if we don't find the super Superman, and you know, you're just not taking anything seriously. And he's just like, alright, mom, relax. And he's just like, shut, right? He's just like, shut up. Like, do you understand like, what you are and like, what you have, and you just walk around, like, you know, you're the coolest guy in the room and like, you have no responsibility. And he's like, then younger, he's like, I don't want like, what's your problem? Like, when he's just like, what's your damage? He's just like, you use monkey as a dartboard. He's just like, Okay, I played with a toy. What's the issue? But obviously, this young berry hasn't lost his mom, like old berries lost everything. So really good. Seeing that, I think is the the peak of what Ezra Miller's acting was in this movie. Yeah. So yeah, they they're in they go to Siberia for some fun bits in key in his back, baby. How you feel? It's fine. It's fine. I think it's pretty I think it's solid the action I think all the Batman action across the whole movie is Batman action. It's Batman ripped from comic action in my opinion. I think it's pretty solid. Yeah, it's fluid. Obviously. You got to suspend your disbelief that a 66 year old man is moving like this, but who cares? Yes. And he's like properly like brutal Yeah, yeah, it's understood that he's been through some stuff. And you know, obviously the backrow movie got canceled but you know, it made me intrigued of like an old man Bruce Wayne that still is a little active but has you know had some sort of Robinson some that woman's and back rolls around so it gets a big thing a big pot and they're like that's where I would keep a Superman if Yeah, if I had if I had one if I had one. So they get in there and it's a lady Yeah, Lady Superman. What the heck yeah, a woman wrote well relax. She's weighing about 75 to 100 pounds now nourished they pull her out there's a super suit laid on the ground where's my SuperSU they tried to escape Tom and the little bit What the How much do you weigh Yep. The like the flip phone he said Is he gonna Is he gonna hack using a half the Russians using a flip phone? Yep. They escape but then the all the all the armies out there they're like crap battery and what do we do? China's it's the trailer bed right? And I was like, I'm gonna kill some people real quick. Hold on. clears out they do like a little one taken they're clean out the room. CGI is an upgrade. Nope, no, you think it would improve from the trailers but it's the same it's literally the exact same frames from the from the thing so you get back to white men are super girls there. And they're like, can we stop sod and she's like, Nah, don't care don't care about humanity. Yeah, well I'm cars or oil. Cows cow Isn't that he was an infant when he left. I don't know where he is. Yeah. But you know, all right, let's do it. And old berries like, All right, well, she leaves she's just like, You know what? Humans suck because they held like, why am I gonna save this planet but they just held me captive for what? 33 years. I think it was up until that point that they said, so she's just like I'm out but then she sees what Zod is doing right? Yeah, sounds about to terraforming this earth and she's just like, maybe not maybe they're not horrible. Well, she also has that little hearts are with Youngberry where he's just like, there aren't good people and like she also understands you guys just also saved me too. So maybe you guys aren't all bad. But then we do the Flashpoint bit where Barry needs to get his powers back. He just like well, we're gonna need some help against the Kryptonian army so I gotta get my speed back. They electrify him and then doused him with chemicals doesn't work. Supergirl shows back up she's just like you know what? Let me fly up here because if he dies he dies see much Yep, fly him up there gets electrocuted he's healing and yeah, it's on so you know we don't have the full right of the Justice League but we got an old Batman and we got a super girl and two flashes and two flashes a flash of tourists you might say come on man. Get nuts. Nuts. Nuts. Harlow didn't need it didn't didn't land. That's all right. third act. We're here. We're here. We're here in the wasteland. Yeah, we're here in the wasteland because famine verse because man is still happen. So never can a superhero action sequence take place in the city ever again. And then it's just superhero third act happens. A lot of flying a lot of long. Running around, punching. Yep. Yep. And then we get basically to this is basically the end of the movie because we live in this action sequence till the end of the movie. Well, the big things that happen is kings Batman dies. Yeah, flies into a shrine. So Keynes diamonds dies, super girl finds out that one. callow was murdered when he was an infant. So in this universe, they did find the pod that he was in. They tried to get the Codex out of him, the infant and it did not survive. And she's just like Sasha Kai is actually putting some numbers up. She's like, What did you do? And then you know, just goes berserker mode, much more adept fighter than then Cal was at that point, which I really appreciate, too. So yeah, it's it's all on. But she also does, she gets killed by side and then they harvest the Codex Youngberry is starting to come into his own only issue he has. He's building too much charge when he's running. But yeah, they're working together. He gets a scar on his face, though, but he's just like, You know what, let's take these Kryptonians out that are near unkillable. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Little wacky guys a little bizarre, that like these flashes are like taking out you know, Tony instead are essentially the what is what's the only conceit I if I remember is that cow had been you know, he didn't have a suit on so he was just soaking up that radiate like the solar radiation as like, they're in the suits to protect themselves against the atmosphere, so they can't really, you know, they're not as strong as what cow would have been at that point. I guess. So. So yeah, they get younger, he's like, You know what, I'm going back. You said we could go back. Let's go back. So they do it the first time they're like, alright, you know what, you're gonna change old very young. You know what you're gonna change? I'm very up. Let's do it again. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And he's an old bear. He's like old crap. This is exactly what you know, what Bruce was talking about. This is a fixed point that Supergirl and and Brustein to die in this moment. And Youngberry is like, nope, dope, you came all this way. From the from the future. You're telling me I have powers now. And I just magically can't fix this. I'm not not believing it. So he keeps doing it and keeps doing it keeps getting like impaled impaled by stuff. And he's just like, I'm fine. Let's, let's go again. Let's go again. And all berries like, you need to stop. Meanwhile, God, there we go. It meanwhile, these other earths just start showing up in the chrono bowl, which knees saying that out loud? Doesn't make any sense. Like, why would there? Why I don't I don't get it, I guess because they're just fracturing reality to that degree, that it's opening up the chasm between Earth's basically k and bringing them kind of closer together like an incursion event. I mean, it is, I guess it is, but I guess it's that version of an incursion, like them going back in time and changing things so many times it's creating too many timelines at once. Which the timelines are retro causal, so it's affecting everything else. Okay, that's besides the point. What isn't besides the point is these soulless mannequin CGI people that they put in for for a crowd pop and nothing more? Nothing more, nothing less. It's horrifies. It's not good. So yeah, I mean, just I'll just go down this list one by one and we could talk about how horrifying it is. So first and foremost, we get to We go to the black and white 50s universe and they bring back George Reeves. Who was the Superman of the 40s who tragically committed suicide. Well, the I mean, there's there's a whole thing about his death, but yeah, horrible. Horrible. Didn't have to do it. You see 1960s Adam West Batman. You also see a you see Jay Garrick who is a just a CGI mangled mess like, you see, you don't know who it is like, I guess you know, it's crazy. I think it looks so bad that people were like, it has to be Teddy Sears because that's the closest we can get to this. And Teddy Sears was like, Nah, Tommy and John Wesley Shipp didn't say anything, but it's not him, but I think it is supposed to be him. Who knows God? Yeah, they do. The suit from the CWT though Yeah, it's uh, they have Adam West's just doing you hear stock dialogue. You hear Cesar Romero laughing. And you hear Adam West saying something about the Joker? Dumb. That's dumb. It's super dumb. We get it and then another big one. We get Christopher Reeve and Helen Slater. Superman and Supergirl Helen Slater is still alive. And they CGI there anyway. And then I mean, the Christopher Reeve thing again. Just solely solace. Yeah. And without any type of merit or reverence for honestly. And then we get the probably the best one. Yeah, so they they lean back into Okay, go ahead, because but I have an issue with it. And it's a general audience issue, but go ahead. Well, yeah, I agree. Yeah, so we see another Superman finding a giant spider. He's got long flowing black hair. We we turn the camera around and it's Nicolas Cage. But it's full of CGI. Nicolas Cage. Yeah. Fighting a giant spider. And then that's that's that's those your cameos if you don't know the story, Kevin Smith was supposed to direct a Superman movie and Nicolas Cage would have right would have been his Superman. Well, no, he didn't have one. Right, right, right, right. Yep. All right. You're right. Yep. Cage was Burton Superman. And the plate is kind of like mix those two right? Exact stories together, right to make us. Yes. Which is a I don't it's too niche to be too inside baseball. It's way too inside baseball. It's way too niche because like, there's like niche stuff that you can throw into stuff like crisis does that extremely well. But this is too niche because this thing never got made and like it's an internet meme. And John Krasinski being Reed Richards made sense because he would just been he'd been relentlessly fancast as this character and obviously he's not going to play the character so good time to use it in and outside of time do it but like this one is way too like small that circle thing touched. Other things other things you could have done instead of I need like the music to start playing before you do it to Brandon route. Well, that should have been the one that should have been Christopher Reeves should have been Brandon route. Tyler hacklin could have done Tyler could have done could have could have done could have done Christian Bale honestly could have done Tom Welling could have done Tom Welling could have done any cast of characters from the CW air over Yep. And yep, yep. Notwithstanding grant Gotsis. Yep. Greg glasses, the biggest issue we have we have some thoughts on that. Yeah. Yeah. You want to do it now? Because I think we could talk about that when we think about what movie this should have been could have could have done, could have done could have done Arnold Schwarzenegger. Mr. Freeze. Yeah. And, you know, it's funny. What was the opening bid of this movie, the opening credits of this movie, it was a trek through all of the different logos throughout DC. So again, this movie, one of the cells with this movie, I think, was take a journey throughout the past of the DC Universe from 19 The 1940s Till now, and they just didn't do that. Like for 95% of the movie you could have you could have gotten really crazy and done in across the spider verse s thing, and did Kevin Conroy, which I'm well I don't know when they filmed any of this stuff, or when have they made it because from from what I'm thinking is this movie was made up until the last possible second. Yeah, here's what I mean walking out of that theater kind of put two and two together so many other legacy things they could have done other and had them interact with the story in some way instead of just being these mannequins. As I described them, I in we're going to talk about it once we talked about our final thoughts, but I don't know why this movie feels like it's so against the CW. Like I feel like it tried to sum the CW to its own demise. Because it's a there's a way more versions of better stories in The CW forget about The bad CGI whatever you guys want to talk about, or like, you know, the bad dialogue or like the cheesy stuff, like one thing that CW always got from the beginning was the understanding of where these characters came from and the legacies that they came from. And this was the, they didn't even need to do any of that. This movie, in my opinion, a little bit needed to do that as one of the selling points. You know, you bring Keaton back, you might as well go full Senate. But I just think this movie was afraid to do some of those things. Yeah. And I think their last ditch effort was like, well, we don't need to ask any of these actors to come on and do any real physical roles. But let's resurrect these people that passed away in such a horrible circumstance due to certain horrible circumstances, when you also had to Superman that could have just stepped in the role. Or you probably could have just put Henry Cavill on this. Why would you? Yeah, why would you? Um, yeah, so that growth CGis mess happens. And then the dark flash reappears. Right? And he's like, whoa, whoa, yeah. All berries, like, Hey, can we just talk for a second boss, and then Youngberry returns and Wallops the dark flash and then, dun, dun dun is in fact, obviously, it is. In fact, the Youngberry who is the dark flash, doing this in perpetuity over and over and over again, seeing that coming from 50 miles away? He created this and he tells very, like, I'm close to figuring it out. No, you idiot. No, you're not. And then he goes to kill older bury the dark flashes, and then younger bury steps in the way kills himself closing the loop kills the dark flash thing. Thank you for showing up dark flats. With your two minutes of screen time. Yeah, and then Barry's like, I gotta, I gotta go. I gotta go. Fix this. I gotta make sure my mom does. Well, before that, there's a there's another, you know, part. It's not really a heart to heart moment. But there's like, an angered moment where you know, you see, you know, Youngberry becoming dark flash where he's just like, alright, well, I know. I know. Mom died. But she doesn't need to. Right. We're good. Right? And Barry's, like, did you not listen to anything that Batman said earlier? Like, we can't You can't just keep doing your district. Like, what? You're destroying the fabric of reality right now. Look at Christopher rebill. Yeah, look at look at George Reeve over there. He's looking at Yeah, look at look at Nicolas Cage fight. That's it there. But he's just like, he's like nobody else dies. And then you know, he goes to actually try to kill the old berry too. And he's just like, Alright, maybe this maybe I am getting a little crazy. So yeah, he's, I think he goes back in the time. And this is, you know, you know, it's funny, you had it in the beginning, and you had it at the end. And what the biggest emotional issue with this movie is there's way too much time in the middle of that movie with no emotional beats in the middle of that movie, way too much time elapses in between and to the point where, you know, you'd have you'd had so much stuff going on with you like, you know, Bruce Wayne's here, Super Girls here, they're fighting Zod, and then you get to the end of the movie, you're like, Oh, I forgot about what the emotional core of this movie is. So he gets back to this, but it's such a good scene. And that's what's so frustrating about it. It's so good when he gets retro causal, because there's nothing in the middle of it to go back to the supermarket to undo what he had previously done. I've got to find out the actress that plays, she sees his past flash self, put the cannon and run off. So now he, he sees the moment to go back in and he he bumps into his mom, and he's he's a mess. And she's just saying like, hey, like, are you okay? And he's like, you know, I just really miss my mom. And she's like, well make sure you tell her that. They hug. You know, she's like, you know, I know I'm a total stranger in a supermarket. But can we hug me because he's just like, you know, my mom's like a, you know, a great lady, sugary lady, then like, do you see it? And then she's, you know, she goes, make sure you tell her that because mom's loves hear that sort of stuff. And they hug and then he slows down time. So that he can pull away from her and get the tomato can out and put it back on the shelf. And he goes back to her and he tells her he loves her. And MaryBelle Verdoux she's I think she is quite spectacular in the limited time she has he parts ways with his mom and for the last time well, he right he he speeds up and you know, while he's holding her so we can hold on to that moment, you know, for as long as he can. And he gives her the line. Probably the light of the movie like you know, I love you like I love you more. I loved you first like man, man. That hurted. Yeah, it's super it's that's that's it's really really good. There's that's, I can't. Yeah, as much as I really wasn't crazy about this movie. That moment was really, really good. And he gets back to the present when he looks up at the security cam. I have an idea. Yeah, gets back. I fixed it. Zod no more. Yep. My pal superfans probably said the universe got destroyed. Right. Yeah, audios. Right. Yes. I do merch to that universe. Yeah. Goodbye Earth. Yep. Goodbye earth of that unit. Right? Yeah, he gets back. He's He's late for the trial. He gets there. And then they show the evidence of security Cameron. Henry Allen looks up because the tomatoes are now on the top shelf. And he's a free man. He's free to go. Did Barry learn his lesson? No. He just learned to break time in a less egregious way. But geez, what did he Well, so, you know, Bruce calls and I've seen that obviously was shot. What's today's date? The 20th Yeah, this will be released on the 16th and a scene that I'm going to assume they shot on Monday before this movie came out. And I'm not even joking. This scene was shot probably a week ago because Barry's hair is very different, like horrible green screen behind them. Versus just like Hey, boss, I'm coming. What's going on? Along the way? Barry's like thank you so much. I'll see and Bruce I got my fixed everything. I did it sorry but I fixed it. Don't worry about it. So car pulls up. Person gets out. You see the shoes and then you see the top of the head and you're like oh there comes you know key in it possibly might look like yeah, and then it's just the security guard walks out in loan freaking behold. Let's Alright, let's rank our Batman from top to bottom real quick. Hello, Jesus Christ. Just really quick. Live action. Yeah, so I'm just gonna go really quick. I'm gonna go. Scott. I'm gonna I'm gonna get people mad, but I'm gonna go that flick. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go Pattinson. I'm gonna go Christian Bale. I'm gonna go Keaton. And then I'm gonna go Michael Keaton or I'm gonna go Adam West. And then what's the same from frickin talk on God? Now Kilmer? Yeah, Val Kilmer. And that and then yeah, do your list real quick. Probably bail. Aflac patents in key. West. Clooney, Kilmer. And then and then and then at the bottom of that list, three to one closer orange Clooney shows up out of this car. And I was like, Excuse me? Of all the people you could have called. You called George Clooney. We get we get in that farm. Yep. This was good that wasn't expected Yeah, I wasn't expecting for him just be like who? Is this? Guy actually just laughing. He's just like, where are you? And he's just like, what's wrong with you Barry? I will say this though. As an older Bruce Wayne i by Clooney 130% i by him is still continuing the Playboy persona. Yeah. Because usually always George Clooney right because usually older Bruce Wayne's kind of get out of that and they seem too much like I buy him is still doing like the trials and tribulations as like like I bought because a lot of older Bruce Wayne's will will stop with like, with like Wayne Enterprises and stuff I buy him is still being integrated in Wayne Enterprises still doing that, like all that total. So yeah. 100%. Yeah. Maybe it's not as bad as we thought it was. It's, it's idiotic. It's so dumb. Because, again, is it too much inside baseball? That's the question you have to ask probably. This is because he has the least amount of kind of gravitas as Batman, you know. But who else were you going to get besides his bail? And I don't think that would have done it. Yeah, I think bail. You know, if Thor love and thunder was a different movie, I think they'll probably would have said yes. But you made a great point when we were walking out the theater. I think the true reason that I do think they might have called bail and just said can you just walk it because he's a younger? He would have been, you know, around Ben Affleck's ages Bruce Wayne. Yeah, I think the reason he said no was because he has too much respect for Christopher Nolan. And he doesn't want to tarnish that legacy by showing up and having the nerds run around me like is he gonna be the DC you know, obviously gonna be Jensen Ackles. You idiots. But yeah, so clearly clearly shows. His two falls out. To call back to a minor thing that happened earlier. Yeah. And the movie? Can I get my can I give them the thought that I had when I walked out? Yeah, this is a Joel Schumacher Flash movie. This is the I can explain that to the George Clooney appear right down to the George Clooney appearance. I think that Joel Schumacher was the one that wrote this movie. And I think he's the one you know, man, I just don't get it, man. I don't get it. So, all right, so Greg gossan. Right. We have to talk about this. It's It's inevitable. Why? Why was he just nowhere to be seen this movie, The CW was nowhere to be seen. One suit In a mangled mess of a CGI, taking your fake Garrick, fake Garrick. Like I said, I think this movie was trying to son the CW in a bit been like, you idiots. We're doing this we're doing a real, we're doing real flash this time and never reached any of the heart that that Flash show had reached. We were walking out of the theater, we're talking about the highs that the Flash TV Show hit. We're in, like, exponentially high in terms of the comic cons around what this was, yeah, like just in, you know, the one I called back to was, you know, the feeling of the first thing that somebody talks about when we talked about the flash TV show, just the aura of those first three seasons, like, you know, cheesy dialogue, cheesy villains, whatever, like, the back half of each three of those seasons hit like in the ignition point from Episode 10, to episode or episode nine to Episode 23, that, like this show, this movie would have just dreamed to reach those heights is like tension, like, you know, character building. And one thing that I loved was Grant Gustin was evolving this whole time as a character. And again, this is a universal issue for the DC, the DC EU is like, not enough time spent with this character, like, we just kind of pick up with him. And then he's just, you know, this new age flash. Yeah. And it goes back to the problem that I had making this movie, a flashpoint movie to begin with was, why are we why are we? Why are we caring? Why are we so invested in Barry Allen, we're not really like we haven't been conditioned to where like, The Flash did. The Flash TV series did flashpoint in season three, where we hadn't even then we were calling it like, Is this too early to do Flashpoint. And it wasn't and was and it still worked because they had built up that gravitas of like Barry really loved his mom and like really wanted to say not only that is he came to peace with his mom dying. And then his father was immediately taken from him. And he's just like, Nope, I cannot live it. Like I can't live a life like this. I can't. And then also, you know, retro actively looking like the rest of flashes and three high consequence that whole like it, you felt the consequence the whole time that whole season. The villain of the show was built upon that, you know, upon that consequence as well. So yeah, and that's the other thing of this movie doesn't do. There's no reverse flash. There's no Inciting Incidents for for his mom's murder. None of that. Yep. Yep, it is crazy. It is crazy. Not a post credit scene like there's nothing like now you know, like we thought obviously, younger Barry turned out to be this this dark flashes, TV series wise is closer to sabotage and then then the reverse flash like we had always figured that he was just going to end up being the Reverse Flash face, right. But now he was just this monstrous dark flash, who just gets dealt with immediately saw dealt with. Yeah, or not even dealt with? Well, yeah, that's not dealt with. Because you said this movie. You said it to me when we left like the movie has a villain problem. It has a huge villain problem. Zod is not the villain. No, he's there. Yeah, the third act is the greatest villain of this movie. And the DCU is the greatest villain of this. Yeah. Because I mean, we we kind of we can run through it if you want of like, ways this movie could have worked. Option one instead of doing Youngberry find a way to get Grant Gustin in this movie and have them do something where it's like, why the heck do you look like me? Like, and you can follow up the scene from crisis and be like, in that would be crazy. If you you pluck that, that Grant Gustin and like, he has this whole adventure during that crisis event. Because remember, in crisis in episode four, he was gone for like months, and they didn't see him for months. And he just came back. What did he do in that whole time? What if this is one of the things that he does? He's just like, and you already built into your, your universe that different? They can look different? Right? Yep. And be the same character? Yep. So you could have bought, I told you when we left, they didn't want to do that. Because they would have ended this movie. And people would have been like, That guy should just be like, he's better. Yeah, like, once they get back to the original timeline, it would be so much better if it's just Greg and Ezra Miller. And then on top of that, the no way home in the room, like, you know, as much as we love to Andrew Garfield, like Tom Holland was still acting his butt off in that movie, like, especially, you know, the bits with AMA, the bits on the rooftop, like he was holding his own against these guys that were our spider man for so long. Like, in this case, I think that immediately, Greg Guster would have been like, all right, he just is not the flat. It's this Barry Allen, which would have been like, I just want to see him as Barry Allen essentially. Yeah. And he's been with the character so much longer, and in so much more of an intimate way. I mean, when you're talking about nine seasons of TV versus a few films, Greg gosens with that character for it's insane that they were cast as Barry Allen around the same time not like you know, they're like they were cast this is the same character around the same time and Grant Gustin has just what loops like hoops and hoops through, you know, different trials and tribulations of the character versus this is his first solo movie like this is the first solo movie with Barry Allen and live action. And versus we've gotten, you know nine seasons crossovers with different characters interactions with Superman interactions with Super Girl that are infinitely better