Send us a message that we can respond to at the end of every episode!
We’re back doing review episodes this week! After we have brief conversations about Top Gun 3 & some surprising returns for Daredevil: Born Again, we dive deep into a couple MCU releases as we talk about Season 2 of “What If…” and the first TV-MA MCU show: “Echo.” Discover the streets of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with a fresh perspective as we unravel "Echo's" mature storytelling and its significance in shaping the future of Daredevil's return. Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:34 Tom Cruise to Make “Top Gun 3”
08:39 Deborah Ann Woll & Elden Hansen ARE Returning for “Daredevil: Born Again”
17:45 “What If…” Season 2 Recap & Discussion
01:01:15 “Echo” Recap & Discussion
01:48:46 What We’ve Been Up To! Court – Percy Jackson Disney+ Series Rob – The Last of Us Part I & II
02:01:35 Signing Off, Topic For Next Week (The Last of Us Part II Review)
Email the pod at projectinfinitepod@gmail.com
Tweet us/Follow at https://twitter.com/ProjectInf_Pod
Follow on Facebook
Follow on Instagram at theprojectinfinitepod
Follow Court’s Film on Instagram @untilnexttimefilm
Twitter for Rob https://twitter.com/R_Peck0628
Twitter for Courtney https://twitter.com/courtkid123
In the wake of the tragic death of Power Ranger actor Jason David Frank, from this episode on, the number for the Suicide and Crisis Prevention Hotline will be displayed here: 9-8-8. It's that simple. Call or text that number to be instantly sourced to a crisis counselor. Speak with someone today if you feel alone and need help.
Send us a message that we can respond to at the end of every episode!
We’re back doing review episodes this week! After we have brief conversations about Top Gun 3 & some surprising returns for Daredevil: Born Again, we dive deep into a couple MCU releases as we talk about Season 2 of “What If…” and the first TV-MA MCU show: “Echo.” Discover the streets of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with a fresh perspective as we unravel "Echo's" mature storytelling and its significance in shaping the future of Daredevil's return. Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:34 Tom Cruise to Make “Top Gun 3”
08:39 Deborah Ann Woll & Elden Hansen ARE Returning for “Daredevil: Born Again”
17:45 “What If…” Season 2 Recap & Discussion
01:01:15 “Echo” Recap & Discussion
01:48:46 What We’ve Been Up To! Court – Percy Jackson Disney+ Series Rob – The Last of Us Part I & II
02:01:35 Signing Off, Topic For Next Week (The Last of Us Part II Review)
Email the pod at projectinfinitepod@gmail.com
Tweet us/Follow at https://twitter.com/ProjectInf_Pod
Follow on Facebook
Follow on Instagram at theprojectinfinitepod
Follow Court’s Film on Instagram @untilnexttimefilm
Twitter for Rob https://twitter.com/R_Peck0628
Twitter for Courtney https://twitter.com/courtkid123
In the wake of the tragic death of Power Ranger actor Jason David Frank, from this episode on, the number for the Suicide and Crisis Prevention Hotline will be displayed here: 9-8-8. It's that simple. Call or text that number to be instantly sourced to a crisis counselor. Speak with someone today if you feel alone and need help.
It's the Infinite.
Speaker 2:Podcast Go tell your friends, it's the.
Speaker 1:Infinite Podcast. My God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast.
Speaker 2:We're driving toward the kill. Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom, from movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We got you covered. I'm Rob. I'm here, as always, with Cort Cort. It's time for a good, old-fashioned review episode.
Speaker 1:Yep, we're finally talking about Daredevil seasons one through three. I mean maybe.
Speaker 2:In some form or fashion in this episode we might be You'd love to see it, yeah, but we're going to talk about the newest MCU show that mercifully we got all at once so we don't have to pad for five weeks before we talk about the whole season Echo has released on Disney Plus. I would say it was much anticipated because of the conceit that it's under the Marvel spotlight banner, this kind of offshoot, I guess, of Marvel Studios that's going to be more character-focused, more mature and more kind of not tied to the greater universe. I think the show kind of succeeds in pretty much all of that promise. I think it's definitely a drastic content step for the Marvel stuff, definitely more mature, definitely more kind of down-to-earth for a bit, and it delves into some wackiness that we'll talk about. Then we're also going to touch upon what If which came out across the Christmas holiday Not all at once, it was just like every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was every day. Each day was a new release.
Speaker 2:I didn't watch them one a day, I watched them all at once yesterday Same I watched everything everywhere all at once. Before we talk about, we'll talk about what If. First, that'll be a bit more of a bridged review. We'll just bounce around episode to episode. We'll talk about what we liked, what didn't, etc. I have a gimmick to throw at you for this that I didn't prep you for. Uh-oh, that's exciting. First, we do have two bits of news. First and foremost, we talked a whole lot about Tom Cruise last week and his deal with Warner Brothers. Then they finagled us Actually well, not actually. He's still doing the Warner Brothers thing.
Speaker 1:He's going to do Jerry McQuire too. It's going to be a big deal.
Speaker 2:I wish he was doing that. Say the news, and then I have something. Top Gun 3 is a go, a going potentially.
Speaker 1:That's pretty neat. No, I think it's something that I was nervous about, but I'm a big proponent of this. If you're going to do a sequel to something, it needs to be the original people, and that I will always live with. It either needs to be the original people or the blessing from the original people. Those two things I'll always be fine with.
Speaker 1:I think we talked about how we didn't want a sequel for this movie. A little piece of me loves the finality of Top Gun, but you want to talk stakes to add in. I think that's the perfect landscape to do that. I think this also and this is something that me and you talked about I think this is going to be a huge elevation for Glenn Powell. I think I can feel the rising power of Glenn Powell. They threw this guy in a romcom Like a throwback romcom. He's on the way. Who said the movie star was dead? I can really see this being a coming out party, elevating Glenn Powell to an A-list part of the movie.
Speaker 1:I think this is going to be him and Miles Teller navigating their relationship. I think it's going to be a more complex relationship. There's a lot of coded language being thrown around here. Who knows, who knows. Oh, it's like my Thor 5. Take that have Hercules and Thor in a relationship. You won't, you cowards. No, they won't, they won't. But yeah, like I said, part of me didn't really want this sequel, but part of me is like heck, yeah, more Top Gun by Tom Groves, by Joe Kaczynski, by Christopher McQuarrie, that same team's there. Then I'm in, I'm 100% in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean as we talked we kind of talked about when Maverick came out and then like a few weeks, well months after the fact, like we kind of, it became like a running story with us with like wait, a second Top Gun Maverick's still making money, and it made money for such a prolonged period of time. It became this kind of unsung billion dollar blockbuster that nobody saw coming and I felt like, after all that happened, I felt like that this was the natural. Next step was that they were going to do the third one, which does have me a little nervous. But much like you, I'm very much of the opinion that if everyone is back and everyone is in and they have an idea for it, great.
Speaker 1:The only exception to that rule is Didn't Evil New doing Blade Runner 2049. That's the only one that was fine. That didn't need any blessing from anybody because he was going to ball out anyway.
Speaker 2:So, like I said, if they think they have a story nailed down, and obviously you get Tom Cruise back to do it. The last one made a billion dollars, so yeah, not only did it make a billion dollars.
Speaker 1:It was the quote unquote movie that saved the movie theater experience. So I think this movie would be it's going to be highly talented. I don't know, it's something about the fact that you know, obviously, glenn Powell's and this new movie, hitman, that we're going to see at some point. This movie with Richard Linklider, miles Teller is Miles Teller. I just I have a feeling that they're going to try to do a remix on, you know, goose and Maverick and try to modernize it with sorry, not Goose and Maverick, goose and Iceman, or Goose and Iceman, you know, even so, but with Maverick and Iceman for you know, for Hangman and Rooster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just does make me wonder a little bit, because I feel like Toppin, maverick was this surprise and now this, like whatever this third movie is, will not have that element of surprise to it that Maverick had. So I'm a little interested to see how the how the critical paradigm shifts in light of that, you know this.
Speaker 1:You know what this might play, as it might play as the John Wick franchise, where they're so technically sound and you know, it's just so refined.
Speaker 1:And then, obviously, this is the importance of having Christopher McQuarrie there, and you see this in Mission Impossible narrative and emotional narrative wise, he's super strong. And it's not just narrative, it's the narrative in action, I think, is where Christopher McQuarrie is. So the team that they put together, I think Joe Kaczynski is like a solid glue piece, like he understands how to direct action incredibly well and he knows how to like. It's kind of like having a star player on a sports team with a coach that's like look, I know who you are Like, I know you're better than everybody else. I'm here to help you and I'm here to fill in the gaps for you and get you town around you. That's what I'm here for and that's what Kaczynski feels like.
Speaker 1:And Christopher McQuarrie feels like a almost like a GM at this point, like let me try to bring in talent from around Hollywood to try to, you know, round you out. There's probably going to be, you know, I'm not going to be a surprise if a A-list actor also tries to join this movie. I feel like this would be a good place for them to. But yeah, no, it's good stuff At the end of the day. It's just you know, we get a sequel to one of my favorite movies over the last couple of years. Yeah, I think both of us agree.
Speaker 2:And you can go back and listen to our review of just how kind of shocked and forward we were by just how good that movie was. I think the John Wick point is a really, really good one by you, because we talked about in our John Wick review how it kind of shifted or kind of bucked this idea that things deteriorate over time when, like John Wick, it feels like from one to two to three to four, it's still kind of crescendoing, like I mean four. I guess if you want to say John Wick four is like that tipping point and maybe now we hit that crescendo point, but before then it hadn't really happened, then you know, I would not be surprised if Top Gun is able to follow that and this third movie is even better than Maverick, which would be kind of crazy, yeah, yeah. And then our second bit of news. So you mentioned Daredevil Speak his name and he shall appear.
Speaker 2:So we talked about over the last couple weeks of this kind of rebuilding going on at Marvel Studios and Daredevil Born Again was one of those rebuilding projects essentially, where you know things we'll never really know, I guess, what the original story was or is behind that show, but whatever it was, it was not good, right, and two of the reasons that people were already skeptical is that Deborah and Wol and Elden Hansen would apparently not be returning, and people were like that doesn't make any sense, like you're going to bring back Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox, but you're not going to bring back these other characters, or you're going to recast them.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny you say that and this is going to lead into the Echo review as well and it's the importance of why your side characters are so integral to narrative and why you know they have to bounce and play off of your main characters so well and I was. You know, obviously I'm obsessed with this Daredevil show, so I watch it every once in a while and they are magnificent. You know, specifically Deborah Ann Wol is. You know, she is magnetic and she's just got her own episode.
Speaker 1:And you know the fear around that was a couple shows had tried that. I mean, specifically the most infamous one was the Stranger Things, not anthology, but the Stranger Things Backdoor spinoff thing. Right, that never happened. But then you know, her episode in Daredevil Season 3 was so, so important and it's not important, for it was important, important plot-wise, but it's it's character-wise and why she is the way that she is at this point too. It's just it was, it was awesome and I'm just so glad that they retconned this. And also in Echo's defense, I do think that you know what we got out of.
Speaker 1:Echo does help this show a little bit in just kind of the structuring this show and not narrative structure, I mean actual, you know, structure of how to build this show. Like what are you trying to build? And I'm glad you know you see this with Mahershali's Blade, like sometimes things need to crump, like need to be destroyed before they can be rebuilt properly. Hopefully that's a win. Both of them are back and back with Reason. I knew I think the original plan was they were going to be dead, like they were going to be killed off like off-screen and Matt was going to have to deal with that, and then Matt wasn't going to suit up for five episodes. Like I just think all those things are wrong, like those things don't.
Speaker 2:We've gone back to the drawing board. The Punisher showrunner is now the showrunner for this Daredevil show, first-ever showrunner for a Marvel series. As we discussed, the Loki directors are behind the camera for this Daredevil show.
Speaker 1:That's great and again, you're only as good. You know movies and TV. There's such this collaborative effort and that's why this might be the most important statement for it You're only as good as your team and the team that they seem to be building and it is cast and getting the two of them back in there is super important. You know we're going to talk about in a little bit, but Vincent D'Onofrio is, I mean, it's just the fact that he's just, he's always great. He never will have a lacking before, even in Hawkeye, where we didn't like the. I think we can agree.
Speaker 1:We didn't love him in Hawkeye, I'll tell you it wasn't Vincent D'Onofrio's fault and if anything he was. He felt like Kingpin in Hawkeye. So what they're building there seems it seems much more core to what Daredevil is, and I think they are going to understand how important, how influential the Netflix stuff was, because I think the plan was going to be. We need to distance ourselves from the Netflix so it fits more into our Disney Plus mold. But I mean Loki helped with that too, because Loki doesn't necessarily feel like the rest of those shows either and Disney Plus has since added the.
Speaker 2:I mean they added the Netflix shows a while ago, but now, within the timeline, they added them to the timeline, which opens up a whole nother avenue of possibilities. I know I mean John Berthal has been more vocal in the past weeks about talking about the punishment.
Speaker 2:He is in Daredevil, born again anyway, but I mean, I think the smart thing to do is just make sure he gets his show like lock down John Berthal, because he's one of the best actors on the planet and it just feels like, with them totally revamping the Daredevil thing from him showing up in Spider-Man Night Home to him showing up in Echo to Kingpin, kind of being all over the place it does feel like that the Daredevil thing is going to be some type of cornerstone for some type of thing that they're setting up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think this is all going to come to a head in Spider-Man 4. I think there's discussion around it that we need they're probably like we need to maneuver it in a way where, a it takes a little bit of that Netflix influence, b we get everybody back to a capacity where and the person that needs to be redeemed the most is Danny Rand, and that's a point I'm going to make in a second but we need to get them back into a place where they were there the whole time, like on paper, and that's a move is like outside universe. Just putting them in the timeline order, that's going to help with a little bit. Some people might never seen the MCU. Now it's going to help a little bit. Okay, now there's these shows that are canon to the MCU and then what they might do is like, if I'm them, my second move is I'm doing that Heroes for Hire show, but I'm going full send on who Danny Rand and Luke Cage are Like. I'm making sure, especially Danny, because I still like the idea that the second Shang-Chi movie you have Shang-Chi's mother's realm be one of the capital cities and you do Danny Rand tried and true and have this be what's his name.
Speaker 1:What's Danny Rand's real name? Fin Jones, fin Jones, yeah, this needs to be like. The Fin Jones is back and he's the best he's ever been. Like no, no, this isn't like Danny Rand, corporate Danny Rand that walks around shoeless and no, no, no, this is like the iron fist. Like go get it. I forget who it was that did the immortal iron fist run. But like pick that book up and do exactly what that book does, because that's the best that iron fist has been. Like just do that and stay trying. And true. I just watched that Heroes for Hire episode. We talked about it. It's so incredible and Luke Cage she's in too. It's like. But it's so simple, it's not complicated, he's fully formed himself, he's fully aware of himself and he's confident in his abilities and just him working off of Luke. It's like you can get a whole show off of that on Disney Plus and people would watch that. I agree, get Jessica Jones back in there too.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, getting her to write her in is a layup. Yeah, she's magnificent as Jessica Jones and I think there's a lot of. I think you know we didn't really see her interact with a lot of characters other than her own characters besides defenders, and I thought she was one of the strongest points of that entire mini series was her, especially her and Daredevil.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because they have such a great natural point of contention with one another where he's all kind of like gung ho about being a vigilante and she's like uh.
Speaker 1:And also you know every aspect of their life because their jobs are much like. They do have to have a bit of contests because he's a you know, he's a defense attorney and her whole thing is like I don't.
Speaker 2:She's a private eye.
Speaker 1:I'm a private index, like if I need to find something, I'll just find it outside of like the law. He's a Catholic, she's a drunk. Yep, it's so good, it's so perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wears a mask, she wears a leather jacket. Right, and they do. It is really great how they bounce off one another. But, yeah, I think it's great that Debra and Waller and Elvin hands in her back. Like I said, I think it signals this importance of nailing this Daredevil show. Yeah, especially going forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the rumor is that Muse is going to be the villain. Muse is a newer, much newer Daredevil villain, the. What Chip Zodarski did with Daredevil from what was that? From 2019 to 2023 was just absolute. I mean, it set up the whole devil's rain thing with Fisk, like that. Like it made Daredevil into an event chapter in the MCU, like a huge event. And you know, mayor Fisk, the deletion of vigilantism, which I do think is going to be a big plot point in Spider-Man 4.
Speaker 1:If they if I think they're going to do what they're going to do, because I think they realize how popular Daredevil is and how popular Charlie Cox is, like I think they are going to do get him with Tom Holland in the movie and have Fisk be the main villain of this movie, because you could do your other things, but I just think this might play a little easier. And then that finally gets Vincent D'Onofrio back. Is, you know, the tried and true kingpin Spider-Man's now on the street. He's finally the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Perfect time to put him against the huge. Like just a normal guy. Like no powers, no mech suit, nothing. Like just a guy that's power hungry. Like this is like the, that's like that it's like the DLCs in the Spider-Man PS4 and PS5 games. Like all this is a street level, like this is a big aspect of Spider-Man's character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I do have a couple, a couple Fisk things that I'll bring up when we talk about it with Echo, because I think I think the Daredevil thing is going to be a big was. I will save it, I'll talk about it in a little bit. So, short of that, we can jump right in. We can talk about what, if so. Season two of what, if, obviously a follow up to last season, which gave us what did last, what did. Season one of what, if give us.
Speaker 1:So, captain Carter, captain, Carter, it gives you what big things.
Speaker 2:what big things I mean? It's the, it's the multiversal Avengers.
Speaker 1:That was the big. That's like the big, huge thing, that kind of. You get to Chalice Star Lord, which I actually quite enjoyed. That episode the end I what I still think is one of my favorite episodes of live action. Anything in the MCU is the. Is the Doctor Strange kind of Groundhog Day episode I thought was it's so good. You get Marvel Zombies that's what she's going to play later and then obviously you get infinite Ultron and then you get the, the infamous multiversal Avengers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then we get season two. So basically how I wanted to do this was I'm going to give you the name of the episode and then we're going to just take, we're going to pick one word to describe that episode and then we can, we can dive into them a little bit after that. So season two, episode one what if Nebula joined the Nova Corps? Poetic.
Speaker 1:Hmm, interesting, surprisingly poetic that episode was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was, I was going to, I was going to say, I was going to say I was going to say fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was so much more emotionally invested in that might have been the most emotionally invested I've been in any of these episodes outside the season one Doctor Strange episode like it and it's such a good way to start because it plays on the whole fact like there needs to be substance to the things that you do. You know that's one of like, that's one of the things like I let's just take she hold, for example like I think that was one of my issues, like I'm lacking some sort of substance from around and like it immediately is engagement and Nebula engagement and Zandar. Like there's there's sad things happening. It's a bit somber, almost, but there's like that little bit like piece of hope that they tug on until you get to the end of the episode is just, it was a surprise, it was like it was a surprisingly poetic episode of of Marvel television.
Speaker 2:It was fascinating to me because it obviously draws heavy inspiration from Blade Runner Right, definitely draws felt, felt, very, and Dory it felt, it felt like this, like 80s landscape, like I can't explain it, like it was just.
Speaker 1:There's something about this episode that I just really clung on to and really enjoyed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love this idea that, like Nebula so you know quick synopsis Nebula Ronin kills Thanos. Thanos is again continues to be the Kenny of the we're gonna.
Speaker 1:There's more of that in the season to yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Ronin kills Thanos, leaves Nebula for dead, she's rescued by the Nova Corps and she essentially grows up in Nova Corps, becomes, becomes a corpsman and she really tethers herself to the, to the ideals of the Nova Corps, like, yeah, she's. She like gives her purpose.
Speaker 1:It's such a good heroes journey to like. It's like the, you know, like the classic story circle thing. She fits that probably some of the best side scene like yeah.
Speaker 2:And, and you know, I feel like when they bring in the live action actors for these things, that can be hit or miss, but I thought Karen Gillan did a really really nice.
Speaker 1:She might have been my favorite out of this season, to, for she's up there, yeah she's really great. Surprise, Jude Law appears. Yeah, I actually couldn't believe that Jude Law did that.
Speaker 2:I was very very surprised he returns as Yan.
Speaker 1:Rock, who maybe his conceit was just like all voice this, but I get to get my own Star Wars show and then they gave it to him.
Speaker 2:So he double crosses her also. Double crossing her is is the Nova Prime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's her name is not back. No, gluck Close. No, they should. Gluck Close should have done it. What are you doing right now, gluck Close?
Speaker 2:But yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was a pretty neat episode.
Speaker 1:I think it was a good start, like that's a good way to start the season, yep.
Speaker 2:Episode two. What if Peter Quill attacked Earth's mightiest heroes? One word to describe that episode Can I do?
Speaker 1:a hyphen Sure, no, no, I'm going to give you this. What about? What about this? Give me your word Nostalgic, nostalgic. That's good, because the 80s are great.
Speaker 2:Not just the 80s, but a time in the Marvel Cinematic Universe where villains make villains great again. Oh make villains.
Speaker 1:great again, because ego is Kurt Russell man. Kurt Russell is. Kurt Russell is cooking on Amazon. He's cooking on Apple TV right now with his, with his Kurt Russell man.
Speaker 2:what a performance out of him Reminded me of just like ego man, One of the best villains we've ever got in the MCU. Because, yeah, I mean they basically do Guardians 2 again, but just attack it from a slightly different angle, and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:It was like if the Guardians and the Avengers mixed and had a movie together earlier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know, my only, my only, and it's going to, I'm going to. I'll save the question for the end of the episode, but at the end of the recap, but it was. I was surprised with how, how well that all worked out. Mm hmm, surprise, again, surprise performance Lord's Fishburn is in this one. Oh yeah, because we had saved that.
Speaker 1:Like who's the MVP of the season? Can I give you a statement instead of a word for this episode? Sure, it's never too late to persevere, because I think that Peter understands, that, I think that Hank understands that Michael Douglas. I think that was an important thing to happen for him to see this kid. It's never. It's almost like it's never too late to start. Bucky also has to deal with that.
Speaker 2:It's never too late to start over.
Speaker 1:This isn't in, it was my text to you. Immediately I was like this is I don't know why. I loved what they did with Bucky in this episode because you know, I think that who was it that knew? I think Peggy, and Peggy and Howard kind of knew that that was Bucky. Like they had a feeling that it was Bucky that whole time and I really enjoyed it, I really liked it. They were he's like this I, when I say I was just like it's like Russia. It's like when you get a loan and soccer, like they just they loaned him out for it, but Russia just lent us the winter soldier for a game.
Speaker 2:He's on a 10 day contract.
Speaker 1:But yeah, no the first. I think the first two episodes of this season two were pretty up there. I think they were pretty high standards. They felt pretty focused, that's a great way to put it. They did feel very focused.
Speaker 2:They felt very focused and I enjoyed the. I love the resolutions of both of them. I think, especially this one with you know again Michael Douglas man. I think I thought he put up one of the best performances of anyone in season one when they did the what if Ant-Man was a lunatic killing all the legends? I thought Michael Douglas is great when that and it just it. It pains me in a way that he's so good because I'm like shoot. Imagine if he was able to just thought.
Speaker 1:I thought that a couple times MCU.
Speaker 2:Because like nothing against Paul Rush?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, but it's two different versions. That's why I think it gets Paul Right. It's two because I mean, I had my idea. This was back back back way, way, way before this podcast was incepted. But I always had my idea of you not D age, but you find two younger actors and you put, you know, hank and Janet, through the quantum realm and then they come out with two like A list actors, come out of the other end and you're just like well, now you have your Hank and Janet for the, for the MCU now. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just think there's a lot, of, a lot of sex night or what I would have done, that there's just a lot of stuff with that, with Hank Pym and I think you know across all of his performances, as Hank Pym besides him and quantum mania where we've talked about, he just becomes crazy person.
Speaker 1:Crazy grandpa yeah.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot there with that character and I think he plays it so well both in live action and in animation.
Speaker 1:There's like this brokenness that gets sort of solved and then he needs to solve that. I really it's like stuff that you would expect out of the live action, stuff that doesn't get dealt.
Speaker 2:And I regret. You know it's kind of. It's just unfortunate that you know he's the age that he is and is not able to fully explore that. Yeah, as Hank Pym, I also like the, the hope and Peter stuff.
Speaker 1:Again, it felt very like 80s movie, like that's exactly how it felt and we still got the.
Speaker 2:They still gave us the, the Guardians to twist of ego, saying that he killed Peter's mom and again and I love how some things are constants, Like that's still like you, what Like?
Speaker 1:also to Chaka too, yes, that's also was great and like I love how he played almost like this, like job done, but I'm gonna, I'm, I'm a little bit more fun than Chalice. Like I'm, I'm, I'm a bit more fun.
Speaker 2:Loves, love, thor, and pretty much all of these. It's great.
Speaker 1:It's great, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2:Kind of returned, returned forward to that Like the Kenneth Branagh Thor. Yes, they did Thor Across a bunch of episodes.
Speaker 1:And that Thor is just business. Like it's all business. I'm disillusioned by Odin Like I'm just a very straightforward person.
Speaker 2:Yep, and we get a little more of that in an episode a little bit later. Episode three it's a Christmas episode. What if happy Hogan saved Christmas? My word for this was fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, my word for this is hammer. Yes, that's because when you asked me at the end who the MVP of all of what, if season two it is just, it is Sam Rockwell as Justin Hammer, because he is outstanding. And why can't we? This is the villain we need back in live action in the MCU. Yes, I agree, I'm the main villain of armor wars. Like, I don't think that's a, because it's going to be all. The nine rank is probably going to be Obadiah Stun. Have the two of them freaking team up and mess with mess with you know I'm again.
Speaker 2:This is another, another one that you know. Much like remind, much like ego reminded me in the last one. It also reminded me like man Justin Hammer was just. Sometimes you just need a villain that's just fun to root against.
Speaker 1:I can't believe that we're saying this as if we weren't saying, when these movies were coming out, what's wrong with the villains in the MCU? And now we're like do we miss them?
Speaker 2:Well, the problem with Iron man two is that Justin Hammer isn't the villain.
Speaker 1:He isn't the main villain, that's the, that's the.
Speaker 2:That is the biggest issue. It should have just been him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because sometimes like you need or it should have just been Mickey Rourke, but I don't know how that plays.
Speaker 2:You need a Weasley little guy in a suit that you just want to snap his little neck but you can't get to him because he's so, he's so Weasley, but that's like the best kind of villain is like not necessarily like formidable ones, but the ones that like they keep slipping through your hands.
Speaker 1:They're so annoying and well, that's how I think they're going to play Maxwell Lord and in the in the DCU as well, like just that, like annoying, like it's a great archetype.
Speaker 2:What did you make of Happy Hogan becoming the freak?
Speaker 1:I think you said it best Fine, it's fine. Yeah, it's a great episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was fun. It was fun, I liked it. Cat Dennings came back, she was putting up numbers.
Speaker 1:She was doing pretty good.
Speaker 2:Colby Smulders came back for a bit as Maria Hill, which I quite liked, all right. Episode four what if Iron man crashed into the Grandmaster? You want to know what my word is? Dlc.
Speaker 1:DLC is good. My word is going to be shenanigans. That's putting, putting, and this is the only time I wish that Robert Towney Jr would have been there Exactly. Just because Robert Downey Jr and Jeff Goldblum going at it would have been absolute money.
Speaker 2:You read my mind it would have been great. Watched that whole episode going. Man, I wish Downey did this. But yeah, this is DLC. It's a continuation of season one. It's the last episode of season one, essentially that they kind of repackaged as a season two episode. We get to find out how Gomorrah got to be on the Multiversal Guardians of the Galaxy Because he did just show up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They did a big Mad Max. Basically, in this Goldblum is outstanding. He's his best.
Speaker 1:Goldblum in this? Yeah, no, it's awesome.
Speaker 2:A couple cool things. Gomorrah I did like the kind of arc that her and Tony go on where he's, you know, even though, like I don't know, did you feel like I'm diving into this animated show way too much. Did you feel like he kind of like accelerated his character arc a little bit? For Tony, yeah, because this is Tony fresh off Avengers 1. Well, I mean, it's like the radicalization of like, because and then he was just kind of like no, I'm a hero and I'm doing well.
Speaker 1:It's almost like a remix on, like the whole age of Ultron arc, because the age of Ultron arc, because it's like the age of Ultron arc, in my opinion, is like an amalgamation of, like the fear of the end of the Avengers. It's like the triumphant fear, if that makes sense, like the. It's kind of like you know an undue statement, but the you know that fear of you know what if this happens? Again, mixed with the Iron man 3? Like well, you know, I'm going to try to protect what I have. He lost what he had. He lost he did lose pepper and he like. And the conceit was like well, now I can't get back. It was kind of like an X, but it all happens in the second half of a 30 minute episode. So you have 15 minutes for like years of development, but that only takes place in so long in that episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Thanos dies again.
Speaker 1:Thanos does die again, gamora kills him. Is that just the running joke? It must be right. They had to have, like, had a dartboard in the studio and they were just like what's the funniest plot thread we can pull on for the whole season. And somebody wrote what if Thanos, just like outside of 616, thanos is weak. I thought Thanos was weak To Thanos. I mean, you're, I'm here to save my girl.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Thanos dies again, Iron man becomes. He leaves Valkyrie in charge of the car. Tessa Thompson came back for a bit.
Speaker 1:Mad Max very road.
Speaker 2:Yep, it's very Mad Max. It was very fun. It was the Grand Masters contest to a race. That felt fun. I like that. Yeah, it was. It was pretty good. I liked that one Episode five. What if Captain Carter fought the Hydra somber? My word is saturated because what is this character?
Speaker 1:My my word is is phase four. Is that my statement? This feels very phase four I don't know any other, better way to put this Like it feels very out of places in the right thing, but it's like I just don't know what this character is. You know, I think this, you know what this episode also is. I think this episode is also totally off because I feel like you should have played into the Winter Soldier aspect of that, specifically with Peggy. You should have played into that even more, but then they took the.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to go full set. I'm going to, we're going to talk about it and echo for a little bit of things that don't fit for what we were promised and also cause I'm going to take out episode three and four when I'm looking at this whole, like as a whole, for a second, because episode three is a Christmas episode, so that's fine, and episode four takes place outside of everything that was happening. Like to get episode one and two and to me to have that investment and then five just feels like a, like the train derail just a little bit, just a tab.
Speaker 2:Well, episode five starts the through line of the finale, which will which? Will, which we're going to start ramping up to essentially. But yeah, man, it's saturated Like I feel like I feel like that first Captain Carter episode where we first see her in season one, I felt really did a great job of what makes why her being the Super Soldier is different from Steve.
Speaker 2:And I feel like they kind of lost it a bit, like I feel like now and what she continues to be for the rest of the season is just a British version of Steve.
Speaker 1:It's not. It's even further than that, in my opinion. It's not only just this British version of Steve, she's just Captain Carter. To get the name Captain Carter in there, because they already sold, like, they already planted the seed, that like well, now this is just British Captain America, like that's it.
Speaker 2:That's all she is exactly.
Speaker 1:Like, I feel like the depth of her character is gone, like there's no subtlety.
Speaker 2:I feel like that first episode really really the first episode she's in really has this kind of. She has this rogue like, kind of like Robin Hood-esque-ness to her, and the first like she's having a good time, she's flipping and dipping with the shield, she's cracking jokes and I'm like, oh, I like this kind of take on it.
Speaker 1:That's not.
Speaker 2:Steve at all. That is not Steve Right. And now I feel like you know, with this episode and the subsequent one she's in, she's just Captain America, like she has the same ideals, she has the same like Abruptness of like we need to do the right thing.
Speaker 1:To do the right like yeah.
Speaker 2:What happened?
Speaker 1:I can do this all day. What happened to you, like what happened to what happened to season one version.
Speaker 2:And that works for him, but I don't need to see it again.
Speaker 1:That's why this is what if I don't need to see Steve? It's not? What if somebody just happened to get super, so like, why is this different than you?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah. So I mean we're going to talk about her more because she shows up in a bunch of other episodes, because at the end of this episode plot twist she gets scarlet witched into another dimension. And then we get to episode six, which is the one that I was personally looking forward to the most when these got announced. So what if Kahori reshaped the world? My word for this is ambitious. I really like this. The whole episode is is subbed, it's spoken in the Mohawk language and Spanish for the inquisitors, and I really like this episode.
Speaker 1:Ambitious is actually an incredible word. Um, how would I describe this episode? This is a tough one, because this is one. This is obviously. This was the statement episode of you know, of new, of you know you've taken a swing.
Speaker 1:Totally original character. I'm going to say modern, and I say this in the way that you know it's. It's almost like the Harley Quinn thing, where the Harley Quinn started in the Arkham sir, or um, in Batman, the animated series, and somebody that I think is going to be in live action at some point. I do think that is going to happen. So modern, I think, is what I'm going to kind of take.
Speaker 2:And I like this. I didn't think about it until just now because we were talking about like, well, what do you do with this character? Because she's like, she's insanely powerful. If you haven't seen the episode, but that's just. But the conceit behind that and how you could transition her to live action is this is what if? Maybe the live action version Kahori gets a different power set. You know, maybe she gets no powers, maybe she gets no powers, maybe she's just kind of like street level and you know she doesn't have powers. You know, this is a what if? Version of Kahori. Who was she? Obviously, because if you bring it alive action, she can't be powered by the Tesseract Because Tesseract doesn't exist anymore. So, um, from that lens, I think you could absolutely adapt this character to live action. I, I would want to see this character adapted to live action. I think the backstory is really interesting, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the in terms of lore and lore, that you have to insect because that's what they had to do for something like this, I do think it plays very, very well.
Speaker 2:I love this idea of this Native American that literally fights off the invaders and she has this opportunity to kind of go to this. I got avatar vibes at certain parts, especially when she goes to the, the skyland, and she meets her. You know her compatriots, and they all basically tell her like hey, this is, this is essentially heaven, right, like we have all these superpowers and we just kind of hunt forever and you know, everything is great and she's like well, everything's not great. You know back where our people are actually from. So, like you know it's it's. It's an original character, but it's a tried old statement of like what good is this power if we're not using it for?
Speaker 1:the greater good.
Speaker 2:And she uses it for the greater good. I found that sequence with her when she stands up to the inquisitors incredibly satisfying, because you know, you know it's not, it's not hard to make this Spanish inquisitors, that villains, right. So where you want to root against them so I was that was really great. I really loved the galvanizing force of all of them coming out at the end and kind of like overrunning them and repelling them. And then and then, and then, and then. Dr Strange shows up, right.
Speaker 1:And you know I'm a look, I don't know how to put this in the best way I'm a, I have a it's. It's almost the same thing that I feel about Captain Carter that the magic of that strange is starting to slip, just a, just a, just a tad bit it slips and it I don't, I don't know. I'm kind of on the fence about this one, cause I feel like you might feel more, more, a little deeper about this than I do, cause I just that's how much I really like this character, especially from season one. But again, what they do with him in the finale of season one I didn't love either. So now I'm kind of at this point where it's like, again, I think what if is?
Speaker 1:And and I'm going to get into it in episode seven, two, when we talk about, um, the hella, getting the 10 rings, like I feel like what ifs? Getting to this landscape of like we need, like what if everybody had the most powerful thing? And I'm like episodes one and two, understand, and Peter even does have one of the most powerful things, but that's not the point of those first two episodes. I think you need that investment into character. That's the more important thing about what if that's why? What if the episode for the Doctor Strange episode in season one, like he does, also obtain this insanely stupid powerful like the powerset? But that's not why it's so good. It's so good because, no matter how much power I have, I can't just save the one person and the entire multiverse that I wanna save.
Speaker 2:And I honestly think this episode, episode six, does a great job of balancing that.
Speaker 2:Whereas, you know again spoiler alert we see Kahori again in the finale and I feel like she kind of just had all of the characters stripped away from her and she was just the mega powerful being in the season finale where I was, like you know, I was just kind of bummed because I was like it feels like this character regressed offscreen and I don't know why. So, yeah, let's lead right into episode seven. What if Hala found the 10 rings? And my word for this was Thor question mark. Yeah, I didn't think we were gonna be revisiting the plot of Thor one, but we did.
Speaker 1:And I do like that idea and I do like throwing Cape Lanshed into that a little bit of like, and it's also where do you find it Like? I do like for what, if? Like when these different factions of the MCU start colliding with each other and this was a fun one, like Thor's faction of the MCU mixed with Shang-Chi's faction of the MCU, like that's cool, like that's some fun stuff. It wasn't Tony Loang, that was yeah, which I wish it was.
Speaker 2:I wish it was too.
Speaker 1:yeah, I think he's so good as one Woo. But yeah, I mean, I think the word that I had for this one was like conflicting, because again, it's like these power sets are start like that's what I just feel like these episodes started turning into, Like we needed to arm everybody with the most insane power set for something I'm like oh, we'll get to it, We'll get to it in episode nine, what happened to all the character development that you had?
Speaker 1:Like you were leaning so well into it and you just started taking it away, just for the fact of like we just need this so that then one of the Watcher pulls everybody together. Everybody's all powerful and it's all cool and I'm like it plays into a cool factor, but is this gonna stay Like? Is this going to stay in anybody's mind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did like that. We got a little warmongering, odin in this.
Speaker 1:Maybe the best version of Odin is when he's like Paranoid, Paranoid and like shout out God of War. Ragnarok, the best-.
Speaker 2:This had tinges of kind of that God of War Ragnarok version of Odin, where he's the all father. He needs to know everything at all times. Two bad dads, two bad dads One who's a good dad, though, in this one the whole time.
Speaker 1:He's a great dad. Honestly, he's great.
Speaker 2:He uses the 10 rings to protect the world.
Speaker 1:Cool, and maybe he was never that bad of a person. Maybe you should have just not killed his wife.
Speaker 2:I did like the through line of Hella being like you know. I'm just gonna turn on you right To like literally everyone she talked about.
Speaker 1:That doesn't play if it's not Kate Blanchett too, if that's not. Kate Blanchett. It would have become very grating, but we'll allow it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, she was. I really enjoyed her. Anthony Hopkins was good as this different version of Odin, like basically Odin, if he never learned compassion, which?
Speaker 1:did he.
Speaker 2:Kind of. I mean, it's because of Loki, but and then he did. He does it at the end of this, where he was like thank you, hella. I do enjoy the conceit, like Odin like went through all these great lengths just to teach her a lesson, even down to the point where, like, I invaded Midgard because I knew you could become this Right, and she turns into a good Hella. Hella the White, hella the White yes, she does a Gandalf, she does a Gandalf transformation.
Speaker 1:I love Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, that's how her powers work, I guess.
Speaker 1:Save that cause. That'll be important.
Speaker 2:Episode eight. What if the Avengers end up assembled in 1602? So this is a continuation of the Katzen Carter episode. The Scarlet Witch of 1602 has dragged her to this dying universe. Essentially, there's an unknown kind of rift happening. We get more warmongering, thor, and that's what I liked, where he was like, oh, my sister, and he's like well, I'm in charge now and I'm angry about it. I like this version of Thor.
Speaker 1:Any time Thor's about business. It's not as fun as like Tycho Ortega's Thor, but it is just it's more plausible. It's like all right, I'm too old and too powerful for this crap.
Speaker 2:I'm over it and then yeah, so we get. There's an odd collection of characters in this episode.
Speaker 1:To be honest, I don't hate this episode as much as I should.
Speaker 2:Oh, what was your word? What?
Speaker 1:was your word for this. I don't. These are like and I guess this is a good way to measure like a review for the season. Like, as the season gets deeper it's tougher to gauge, because I feel like character wise it's tougher to gauge. So I can't gauge the episodes as good. But how do I put this? What's your word? What did you pick? You see, you threw a card.
Speaker 1:This was like maybe one of the best curveballs you've thrown at Unsatisfying. Unsatisfying is fine, I'll live with unsatisfying Amalgamated. Like it just feels like again. And the same thing. The same thing happened in season one. The same exact thing. The only thing that saved that episode eight is the fact that it was infinite. Ultron was so goddamn cool. That's the only thing that saves it. Because again, it's like all right and to your point, we're gonna get these weird collection of characters. Like it flows so well in the Peter Quill episode and episode two, like getting all those characters in a place, like it just feels like at this point it's just like all right, we're just gonna pluck these weird people from different times and then oh happy, I don't even wanna.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on one side of this one faction is Thor, who's the king. Previously Hela Hela was queen and then she got sucked into a rift. So we have Thor, we have Loki, who's kind of not on their side.
Speaker 1:He's like I mean same it's Loki. Yeah, it's Loki.
Speaker 2:Scarlet Witch, Nick Fury and 1602?
Speaker 1:Yes, tough time for him. Ha ha, ha ha, brother, ha ha ha ha. Six years ago you earned all the. You have earned all this smoke brother. No, don Cheedle. We didn't get Don Cheedle in there, we should've.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, we should've, should've found a way to get Don Cheedle in there.
Speaker 1:It's like Don Cheedle's great grandfather, great, great grandfather.
Speaker 2:Who else? Happy Hogan is on Thor's team for some reason. Tony Stark is by himself. He's like a maniac who no one trusts, which I kind of.
Speaker 1:And again, if it was Robert Downey Jr, it plays even better. He's kind of like a crazy person, which makes sense. He's like a deranged I mean perfect. You're like an inventor, but you're crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have Captain Carter who got. She got sucked to 1602 by the Scarlet.
Speaker 1:Witch to save the universe, essentially.
Speaker 2:Why Captain Carter out of all these people I get?
Speaker 1:I mean that goes back to you, it goes to your point, it's the same thing and then the Watcher gets a little more involved here.
Speaker 2:Jeffrey Wright is there. He's like Captain Carter, just let the universe die, and she's like I won't, because I'm Captain America. Now Speaking of Captain America, America, yep Steve. Rogers is in this. He's Robin Hood. He leads his band of merry men who has Scott.
Speaker 1:Lang, and Bucky are his men I like it that I like, that I like, I love that group because I, like you, should have found a way to get Sam Wilson in there too. I feel like that would have rounded it out quite well.
Speaker 2:But I also, like, I love the I wish we got more of it of Scott and Bucky, of Bucky obviously being like the no nonsense, scott Lang just being like, who still has an MN powers for some reason.
Speaker 1:In 1602? Yeah, who knows man.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the conceit of this episode is they have to find something called someone, called the forerunner, who's disrupting time. And turns out it's Captain America. It's Infinity Ward, captain America. So the Robin Hood figure of Steve Rogers is actually Steve Rogers from 2018. Who got sent through time Cause when he fought Thanos, he smashed the time stone and it sucked him into the time stone or something.
Speaker 1:I don't know how the time stone was, he became the time stone, I guess does that?
Speaker 2:happen.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it doesn't make sense. And then we get this.
Speaker 2:And this is why I said unsatisfying, because we get again Peggy losing Steve again and I'm just like how many times?
Speaker 1:are we gonna do this? We're gonna do this?
Speaker 2:yep, like we can. You can only pull on that emotional thread so many times. They're gonna animate it Again. They already animated it in episode five they did, they did. Oh man, I guess, because this is like the prime version of Captain America, I guess. So that's why it's supposed to. But also we saw the resolution work out, you know what I mean. So, like I don't know, like the tragedy of their story has already kind of been rectified, and played again and rectified, so so I don't know, man.
Speaker 2:And then Dr Shade shows up Again and he's like Peggy, my old chap Right.
Speaker 1:We're getting the band back together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so come to my thing and we'll have a season finale and half a season finale. We did what if Stevens, what if Strange Supreme intervened? And this was based on the episode title was not what I thought this episode was gonna be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my word for this is why my word for this is frustrating. This is just like, just plain flat out. This is just not a good finale of it's not. This is not. This just is not. This is not how you do finale storytelling. It's just not.
Speaker 2:So he brings yeah, he brings it to the sanctum infinitum and that name I love, though, great name, great name and he shows off his collection of universe killers that he's collected, cause he's basically, basically, he's like the arbiter of the universe. He's what if the watcher? But had done something, essentially, or at least that's how he presents himself to me. So he tells Katz and Carter, hey, go to this point in time and this time you gotta get this person, this the most dangerous universe killer that's out there. She escaped my sanctum. And you find out it's Kaleuri for some reason. So she talks he gets they get back there. And then you find out Steven Strange. Is not this all good, you know, universe saving guy? He's collecting not just universe killers but universe savers and sacrificing them to the forge Because he wants to rebuild his universe that was destroyed in season one.
Speaker 1:I love it that I like because it's freaking personal, but it just does not fit in this finale.
Speaker 2:It doesn't fit in this finale and it just also, I don't know, it felt like it just, I mean, obviously it came out of nowhere, but I was just like we couldn't have spent a little more time with him.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know and it's funny cause I don't like the last I don't like the finale of season one either, but at least the finale of season one makes sense because there's a central thing that needs to be figured out. Like infinite Ultron is about to take out the entire multiverse. Like that's a problem. He fights the watcher Right. What's what's the problem in this? Like what's the actual problem that?
Speaker 2:he's sacrificing people yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a pretty big problem, I know, but maybe I just like this strange too much.
Speaker 2:And then this devolves into like just a fun character cameo fest, which I didn't love, Nope, Cause we get I mean, I could sit here all day with all the things that they show off here Hella you got a little bit of Hella. He's back, you get a more powerful version of Thor. We get, we get Thanos again and guess what? He gets snapped out of exit.
Speaker 1:He gets reverts. I don't even know how that even worked. It didn't even make sense. Because then who showed up right after him? Kilmawker, kilmawker, I don't know, man.
Speaker 2:I don't know man, Kahori sent him to the, to the spirit dimension. Just this again. Just Also, you know what wasn't good writing when Kahori reversed snap Stannos and she's like I don't even know how I did that what, and I, like this character, Don't get me wrong. I think this character is great but like I said they were, they just stripped all of her characterization.
Speaker 1:I gotta think that the person that wrote that episode there's no shot that they wrote the finale, so there's no way, because they stripped her of all of what made her hurt. Saddles all of her. Anything that she had is just gone. She's just characters, like the finale caricature that she is.
Speaker 2:She's got all these superpowers.
Speaker 1:It's like a CW crossover, but like even the CW crossover, is kept everybody's character in that.
Speaker 2:She just gets all the soup. She just has her powers and she's just using them.
Speaker 1:And now it's like just unhinged at this point.
Speaker 2:And now she's this vehicle for Dr Strange to be evil, I guess Again. So Peggy gets the Infinity Stones, she gets them in their armor, which I don't care.
Speaker 1:That's fine. At this point, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, you already made everybody the most powerful version. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Oh, she's not done getting powerful, nope. So they fight Dr Strange, strange Supreme, and he's got all the bells and whistles and they're having like this tug of war with everyone's lives, which is kind of nuts. And then, right before Hela is thrown into her portal, she throws her helmet to Peggy, peggy puts the helmet on, then she, then Kahori, is wielding Mjolnir with her Even right Space stone powers, right, and I'm just like what is happening?
Speaker 1:Dr Strange just holds his own because he's him, he is him, he doesn't know, he slash because he's only him.
Speaker 2:And then Peggy grabs a fistful of Infinity Stones and wallops Dr Strange into a portal and he separates himself from, I guess, the demonic self Sure, and then he's like I did it Right, I'm redeemed, but like as I'm falling into this castle, but like how? Because he did the Darth Vader, you know, like right, ok, ok but where he was like wait, I'm a good guy now, but like I changed my mind.
Speaker 1:But like Darth Vader had Luke in the room, yeah, dr Strange had Peggy. But like when was this a thing?
Speaker 2:Because they're friends.
Speaker 1:But like, not like that, like they don't have the relationship that, like Tony and Steve have. Like, what is this? Listen, man, he changed All right, when, when, while he was falling into that chasm, that was like 10 seconds. What are we talking?
Speaker 2:about it's never too late. It's never too late for redemption man. He just did one of these and he was like I'm sorry, god. And then God was like you can come to heaven.
Speaker 1:Dr Strange Kilmokker really just got walked in and got packed up immediately.
Speaker 2:He got sent to the Spirit Dimension or wherever he went. Can we talk about Echo now, wherever she sent him? Yeah, we can talk about Echo, god.
Speaker 1:But yeah, going back through that just like even made like and I was like and I was not feeling the same way when I went through these episodes, but like, talking about it now just just got me retroactively more mad.
Speaker 2:Strange's universe gets rebuilt without Dr Strange. That was the conceit. He was able to rebuild his universe, but was not able to rebuild himself.
Speaker 1:Because him and Christine can never be together.
Speaker 2:Except not one, that one universe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, multiverse of madness.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, she, I mean, they end up on good terms.
Speaker 1:No, he dies, he dies, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about regular Strange and regular Christine, but like, but he can't have her.
Speaker 1:But he's made peace with that Because because other doctor had is that is her other husband a doctor. What does he do? I don't know, maybe he runs like a Dr Strange fan club. He's hanging out with Clea now. Oh yeah he's got a new boo, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Good on you. And then my question I was going to save for the end of this Pick one of these things to bring to live action.
Speaker 1:Easily the the 80s Avengers Easily. I don't even think that's a, that's even a question like that. I don't think there's anything better than that. I would also take like an andorian-esque version of Karen Gilen playing that live action nebula. That I would also take Maybe, maybe influence inject a little bit of of the marvels into that too.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say good hella, I'm kidding, I'm not saying yeah, I was going to say that. I'm going to say Kahori, I want to see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I didn't say that because I I do think that's their plan. Yeah, she's going to be in live action, but do you?
Speaker 2:do the do the one from episode six. Oh yeah, don't do the don't, don't do the don't do the finale one, the one from the finale, yeah, give me the one with the with the good backstory, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get me, get me the 80s Avengers, get, get. Have it be like a John Hughes-esque type of movie. Give me more Lords Fishburn. Yeah, get, get Lords Fishburn in there.
Speaker 2:Speaking of Lords Fishburn, he's in the Witcher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah we forgot some news that Lord's Fishburn is going to be in the news. They got me back on board, can they? Can they just get Henry Cavill back? Not man, he's doing Warhammer.
Speaker 2:He's doing. He's busy doing Warhammer. He's doing Warhammer and building PCs. Man, why?
Speaker 1:did we hate? Why do? Why do we hate Henry Cavill again? Like, what is he done to anybody? Nothing, just, but just be like a cool guy.
Speaker 2:We did get a teaser for season three of what If A Red Guardian episode that we're going to have with David Harbour. With David Harbour, yes, sebastian stands back as Bucky Lords. Fishburn is back Is Bill Foster and Ranger Morales. Hmm, interesting. Y'all seem suspicious. I don't see suspicious, so we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1:What's give me? Give me one thing you want to see, because we did this last time. Oh from season three of what If Just give me anything that you want? What If Chaps?
Speaker 2:and Karka, one to the sun. What if the season ended well, no, oh, I got one for you.
Speaker 1:I know exactly what you're about to say. You're gonna say it on three.
Speaker 2:No, you don't. You don't know what I'm gonna say, go ahead. You want me to say it with my thing, because you don't know what I'm gonna say? Sure, go ahead. What if Scarlet Witch was the person that took over Loki's spot?
Speaker 1:Oh, and she was the one at the end of time. And then PH was just like I'm gonna sit here and let time pass. That's mine. I mean, I'm gonna give you a simple one. What if the Eternals intervened? And then you pick one of the Eternals and you have one of the Eternals, be very bad. Icarus Nope, and I don't want it to be Icarus. You know who I want? Nope, you know who I want it to be, gilgamesh? Nope.
Speaker 1:I think Makari would be a fun character to use as your person. That's just like I can in an instant end anything that I want. I think that would be kind of fun. It doesn't need to be her, but I just think an Eternals-led episode would make a lot of sense. Get some of them to come back. I think some of them Like. I feel like Brian, tyree, henry would come back, maybe Richard Madden would Like. I think that would be a fun one. I also want to dive into the Moon Knight stuff. So I would love if I saw this on the internet, and this one really got me hyped. Somebody said what if Killmonger turned into the Moon Knight? Now, that would be a fun one because he would do whatever. It's crazy because Killmonger's will is so powerful that he would find a way to overpower Country, which doesn't even begin to make sense, but just based off the Iron man episode.
Speaker 2:Is this your king?
Speaker 1:Is this your moon, god? He goes right to the council. Is this your moon, god? He would find a way. He would find a way. But that I saw on the internet. That's a fun one. What if Killmonger turned into Moon Knight? That would be cool. Like I said, that's an easy one. What if the Eternals intervened?
Speaker 2:They wouldn't have had to.
Speaker 1:Thanos would have just got packed up. Icarus would have just killed Thanos. Because I can't wait to see what they do at season 3, because it just keeps happening and it's just going to keep happening. What if Thanos fought back?
Speaker 2:Fight back, thanos Fight back.
Speaker 1:Now he's Mollywapping me. He said he's using my own weapon against me. Now he's Mollywapping me. Go watch TMNT, the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Mutant man is so crazy that's what. Thanos said when Kahori snapped him out of existence.
Speaker 1:Now he's Mollywapping me, he's using my own weapons against me. Now she's Mollywapping me. The Eternals one is good. I'm trying to think of another one of with a section of the MCU we haven't touched yet. Obviously, the Sony stuff is tougher, because you can't really do a Spider-Man. Maybe you're able to do a Netflix one too. So maybe, if maybe you do one but ooh, a fun one would be. What if Daredevil got the powers of the Iron Fist? That would be a fun one. How'd you get that?
Speaker 2:What if the Punisher had Luke Cage's powers? Woof, woof, woof.
Speaker 1:Woof, woof.
Speaker 2:Russo, uh-oh, not a bulletproof Punisher, that would be insane, that would be nuts. Remember the comics that gave him the War Machine Armor.
Speaker 1:Who's idea was that man? That was a ho-. Guys, you gotta do better Senator. You guys need to do politics better. One day, we're gonna re-talk about Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Speaker 2:Let's um what a finale.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about Echo. Yeah, yeah yeah. Um, so this was five episodes Echo.
Speaker 2:Echo, echo, say that again. So, uh, alakwil Cox is back as Maya Lopez, who we saw in Hawkeye, and if you didn't see her in Hawkeye, that's a great thing. That episode one is around.
Speaker 1:Because it's a video game-esque recap of everything that happened and it's not just like a snapshot, it literally just is Hawkeye Just from, the camera tilted just a little bit and that's how Echo is. For the first 25 minutes, actually the first couple minutes. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, okay, okay, I'm gonna. Actually I'm gonna talk about this Cause this is cause I watched this first, holy moly. So I was. I was off the first day that Echo comes out. Um, I was ready, cause I told myself I'm gonna watch the first episode, then I'm gonna watch Percy Jackson and at the end of this, when you ask me what I've been doing, um, spoiler alert, I'm gonna talk about Percy Jackson, the chauffeur a little bit, cause they are doing some good stuff with that show, in my opinion. But the episode starts right and I was like huh, I'm ready for this grounded yeah, right, egg, exactly Right, grounded street level.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's grounded street level. Um which TV MA Wilson Fisk punching people in the street cause they didn't give my ice cream and I'm ready for-. That also doesn't happen until episode four, which is something. But so episode one starts and lore happens and I was like huh. It was to the point where I was like I clicked on my screen and it said echo, episode one. I was like okay, so there's these people in the cave and these people have wooden skin.
Speaker 2:They're, yeah, they're definitely not human. They are human. They have to be, I guess. But they came from the earth, the earth, the earth people. This is just avatar, sure.
Speaker 1:So the main one drinks water from the earth and is able to hold up the colony that they're in. Yes, and that spoiler alert that person is Maya's ancestor. Yes, and this is, and it was like a four to five minute sequence.
Speaker 2:And then they come out from the earth and, like the yeah, whatever was the shell comes off of them and you find out oh, these are. This is the first people Chalk top people, right, and that's how they became the Americans, right? They were just there already.
Speaker 1:I think it was good stuff. It was just Wild, it was just. I was just very taken. I was just very caught off guard Because even like the show runners, like you guys, you guys aren't ready for this grounded world. And I was like sure, cool. And then the opening happened. I'm like huh.
Speaker 2:So that was an opening. Then we're introduced to Maya's family. We see her father again, who we know is killed later on by Hawkeye. He's what.
Speaker 1:Not by Hawkeye. What do you mean? He got killed by the Ronin. Yeah, whatever man it was, Hawkeye Got killed by Kate Bishop the Ronin. He got killed by a deaf guy. All right, he wasn't deaf yet.
Speaker 2:So they, yeah, they. Basically we get Echo's origin story For 25 minutes and if you know anything about superheroes, you know that. You know you don't want to be in a superhero universe. A parent Because yeah, because Echo's mother is killed in a car accident. How did?
Speaker 1:the clothes get onto the Chaktau people? I don't know, because the clothes just manifested.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway.
Speaker 2:So car accident horrific car accident kills Maya's mom and then her grandma is real beat up about this. She blames Echo's father.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she said you got to watch out for those Lopez boys. Yeah, so that was mean. George Lopez is somewhere upset.
Speaker 2:So she, so his father, her father, takes her to New York, splitting her from her cousin Bonnie, and then, yeah, then Hawkeye happens. Then we get Hawkeye, we get the Hawkeye sequence, we find out what Maya's been up to, maya's working her way up Fisk's empire, because you find out that Maya's father worked for Fisk and can't get out.
Speaker 1:Fisk is Not only Maya's father, maya's uncle as well. Both worked for Fisk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then Fisk is like I mean, you find out that?
Speaker 1:no, you don't find out yet about Maya's mother, the reason that she was killed, yeah, Then we take up.
Speaker 2:You know, we take up. We see Maya rising through Fisk's ranks. She's a stair devil.
Speaker 1:So she gets assigned to just a little job. The job and this is this is where remember that TVM, anything we were talking about. This is the first part, because he probably knocks on the door, shoots the guy in the head. They show the whole thing. I was like it's, it's happening, so they do their thing. Maya's fight style still great, and I and I still and I'm going to stand by this the whole time that the best episode of Hawkeye is the Echo episode. It's the best episode of Hawkeye. I don't even think it's particularly close and they hold that even more true. I think she's. This is. It's funny. I think this part, right here, it's this part and it's a sequence in episode five I'm going to talk about, is the best. Maya is, is this character? It's the best.
Speaker 1:She's got that Netflix grittiness Right, exactly, and she's just built for this.
Speaker 2:Like that's the best way to put it, she's built for it, I love that sequence when she gets into there and she starts fighting those guys and she like discovers herself in the fight.
Speaker 1:It's so good, it's so so good. Then she snaps that man's neck, yeah, and she's locked in, she's got this guy's neck and she's like oh, like I'm about this. You know what my favorite part is, when the one guy that, um, you know, slap dress, grab dress, right, and then she hits him and then the guy, like the guy she's with, she's like good job, she goes back for the second hit on them. I was just like all right, I'm in.
Speaker 2:I'm in at this point. I love, yeah, I love that Cause. I love that Cause. Typically what happens is like point of view character kill someone and they're like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:No, she's like, oh. She's like, oh, I'm built for this, I'm wired in. Now I'm locked in. The Daredevil shows up, yeah, and he says I've been watching them all night. How Are you serious? How I've been listening to them all night. Oh, okay, yeah, okay. That's that, but I do what I did like about the introduction to Daredevil is, like they do, the last of us part two thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, you get to see the hero through the eyes of the villain.
Speaker 1:And you're like, uh-oh, this guy's a problem Like everyone's, like it's the bed.
Speaker 2:And then we get just your standard Daredevil fights again. It's just pretty good, it's so good, it's so good.
Speaker 1:He's whipping, whipping and zipping with that, with the sticks. This is the Daredevil that, if this is the Daredevil, we're going to get in the MCU, because this is, it's the perfect balance between Netflix, She-Hulk and wherever. This is it. This is like the perfect combination of all those things together, because he's not, as you know, slippy and dipping as he was in She-Hulk, but he's not as like. Every time I got punched I got to take a breath Like he's the. It's the perfect medium.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't feel exhausted after I watched him fight Right, because how I often felt watching, because I'm not going to lie Once.
Speaker 1:I finished this episode. I watched the hallway fight. I watched the prison fight from season three, which the cinema that they talk about, Um but, and that fight is exhausting, Like this feels like if we get this out of Daredevil in the MCU, this is going to be some good stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this was fun. He showed off a little bit of his greatest superpower, which is his ability to get his ass kicked.
Speaker 1:And just he said why do you, are you, how are you able to do this? I'm Catholic.
Speaker 2:He shows that off. Uh, I love that. She's constantly trying to grab guns and she's, and he keeps knocking them away from her and it's.
Speaker 1:And it's the thing Phyx says to her after the facts. Like you, you stood up to him the longest. Like I'm none of my men like again. Like she's just built for this, like she's just immediately.
Speaker 2:She does a cool bit where she hangs back and hangs her like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh it's so good. I love it. I love that so much. Give me more of those two together. I will. I. What I think is going to happen is she's going to, they're going to. You know, she's going to play as she's going to play as Wraith from Spider-Man two. That's exactly how their relationship should work. Are they going to? No, no, no, she's. She's much too young for him. Don't count. He said, don't count out. Daredevil's race. The Brits master, he can't help.
Speaker 2:He can't turn it off. Once it's on, he can't turn it off. He's a really good lawyer. And then, yeah, we get basically the Hawkeye rehash. She shoots Fisk in the face.
Speaker 1:She goes. She got her hair done and then shot Fisk in the face. It was an event, that's what I would do. Get a haircut and then shoot Fisk. Yeah, right in the face, right in the face. Good, I'm going to do the clips from Hawkeye, like you said, but it just made me nostalgic, for how could? She wasn't Hawkeye.
Speaker 2:But what five months later? Yeah, now we're in Echo. She comes back home and she's as heroes do. Yeah, she's back home. She doesn't want to see anybody except for her, her uncle Henry.
Speaker 1:Out of work related business because she had just been.
Speaker 2:I've been shot she comes across biscuits Her other cousin I like him.
Speaker 1:He's like a really funny. He's the comic relief, Right.
Speaker 2:And he's got a dog. I was keeping a close eye on that dog. Yeah, don't even think about it. Don't even think about it.
Speaker 1:Don't think about you. Tvma show Don't do it, the dog makes it. They do the they do. The cliche hero has to patch themselves up because this is a gritty episode of television. Yeah, and I have flannel on.
Speaker 2:She's like Henry, can you help me take Fisk down? He's like no, what are you crazy? Are you crazy? I won't do it. I also like her motivation where she's like I just want to be in charge of the thing, I want to be the queenpin. I like that motivation because it shows that she's not like a hero. No, no, she just wants. She just wants the stuff for herself. Good, and she should get it. And then, and then, and then it's revealed Fisk is alive.
Speaker 1:He's got an iPad. How do you survive that? They should have gave him the same iPad that Nick Fury had. That would have been funny. Tell my Sam the reverse he's everything that Nick Fury is not. Anyway, episode two. Episode two this is where the CGI gets wonky, Because we do another flashback.
Speaker 2:No, we do a train sequence.
Speaker 1:That's, that's. That's not great. We also do another flashback. We do, do we do another flashback? Another ancestor of Manifest. Well, we didn't even talk about the episode one flashback. So it's a yeah, we did.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, we did the other one yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the point that, like the because there was some, I don't know what sport they were playing, it's usually just stickball, but they like. But one of her ancestors channels the first ancestors power. But I don't.
Speaker 2:Okay, barry Sanders, I did it. I broke him, I'm not wrong.
Speaker 1:Look, look, I'm not even going to say anything. So the second, that's what happens. The second ancestors prime Bo Jackson, looking like Adrian Peterson out there, prime Derek Henry she turns into episode two. I, I, oh, it wasn't episode two, it wasn't episode two, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, what happens in episode two. So they, they're planning a, they're planning a little little train. Heist little train. Well, not not a train. Heist a train. Plant a train. Explosion a train. Well, they're, they're, they know that guy's an awkai, right, the one that was from tenant. What did I say? The vague middle Eastern European guy, european guy, yeah, I wonder what his name is. I like him in things. I like when he just pops up and just is menacing and like, but like in a like a way. That's like you're a henchman, menacing because he's not a goon as Daredevil would say. He's, he's definitely a henchman, he is.
Speaker 1:He's like in like your video game, like the boss fight, that it's not really a boss fight, but you got to try a little harder. Yeah, you got a lot, you just got to lock in for a second, you lose once and you're like what happens in episode two train heist, train, train plant of a bomb so that she can blow something up and make a statement Fisk, she does.
Speaker 1:She did, she did, she did, do it. Does the train sequence look good? It's dark, it's very dark. It doesn't look great. No, um, but you also learned about Bonnie, her, her cousin Bonnie.
Speaker 2:That she hasn't talked to you or spoken with in 20 years.
Speaker 1:Why is in the great words of the artists that I can't remember? Why are you so obsessed with me? It says it says echo to Bonnie. Why are you so obsessed with me? I mean to be fair. Yeah, it was your cousin that your mom, your, your aunt passed away and then you just disappeared for 20 years. For 20 years, and never heard from never heard from and then you're back in town and you're just like not going to tell me that you're back in town. I'll give her that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she, she, she pulls up this train. She, it's great, it's a great bit. I did like that bit with with uh, with biscuits, yeah.
Speaker 1:And she gets back. I love biscuits ad libs to himself. Actually, I'll give them that they're so dumb, they're so video gamey. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:I loved her getting back to the truck and him being like. I hope whatever you saw was worth it.
Speaker 1:And she's like I didn't see anything?
Speaker 2:Boom Boom. You're looking for this cut to cut to the train arriving and they're like why is it? Why is it? Why is it beeping? Why is it beeping? Um, not just doesn't just blow up the train, blows up the whole plant, like the whole factory explodes. And then Henry gets a phone call because why wouldn't he? Yeah, and he's like what did you say that number, that train was? And then he meets Maya and he's like what?
Speaker 1:what did?
Speaker 2:you do? What are you doing? What did you do, and then she did. She did the Batman Arkham Nightline evening, the uh, this is basically what happened because I did.
Speaker 1:She's very snippy who echo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Which I enjoy, because he's like Fisk's going to come at you with an army and she's going to be like well, that's awful tough. It's going to be awful tough for him to do with no guns, Right.
Speaker 1:Cause I just exploded them all. Um, you get a little bit more with obviously, like I said, you get a little bit more with Bonnie Cause she learns that when she's alive, when she's back in town, I want to see her, I want to just make sure my cousin's okay. Um, that's the everything you're going to get out of that relationship all season.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately Unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Um, cause I really like the actress that played Bonnie Um she's also the voice actress for Kahori.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, that's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. Um, episode three, probably has my favorite flashback. I don't know why I like this one specifically silent movie thing. Yeah, cause you get the gu. You know what this is. This is like a. You know what this is. This is like Jedi fallen order, like when you need to relearn, learn your powers. Yeah, this is exactly what it is. Cause she gets a gunslinger perk from this ancestor. Yeah, she turns into bullseye.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause like the power set Cause.
Speaker 1:what is it? You get like super strength. You have the ability to turn into Barry Sanders, and then you get, and then you get bullseye.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause their hands glow. Cause the ancestors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I still don't understand how this whole thing works Me neither.
Speaker 1:But it's fine.
Speaker 2:Um, and then we get, so we get. Uh, we get Maya's grandmother. No, they're her grandparents.
Speaker 1:Grandparents, yes, and they might have my favorite relationship in the whole show. Funny enough, yeah, um, it's also the actor. Uh, this actor was also in. Uh, maya's grandfather also was in the last of us. He just plays like this like snarky old man. That's like Old man who's just like kind of pat, like over it, and he's just like he's just a jokester, like he's just all about, like just funny one liners, it's great. You made him soup, he said. He said what's the best plan to go? What has go East?
Speaker 2:I love this little laugh that he has. He does it in this too, and he's like why don't you, why don't you talk to your granddaughter? And she's like no, no, I shunt, I don't want to. And then he says the same thing to Maya. He's like why don't you talk to your grandmother? And she's like no, no. He's like well, my job is done. Yeah, I've done it.
Speaker 1:He builds her a new leg which I thought was going to be like a bigger moment, but no, not really. Um, but then we get Maya meets Bonnie again, but but big, big middle of the season action piece set sequence put together.
Speaker 2:Oh, you want to talk about guys that just weigh in over their skis?
Speaker 1:Oh, this. I actually I don't know what this might be my favorite episode of the season. I like this episode a lot and it's because of how, like, this episode might be the most comic booky one, but it's all from like a middle management perspective of being like being that because, like like you said, everybody's in over their head. Nobody knows what they're doing. Echo is like the only one that has like a definitive plan. The rogue Eastern European comes in and, just like you get your money when I want you to get your money.
Speaker 2:Well, don't forget them, don't yeah? And the skating rink employee.
Speaker 1:I love it he actually might be my favorite character and the two girls. He was great, they're great.
Speaker 2:Just the definition of like small town white trash, like think they're criminals and they find out quickly that they are not built for this criminal life. And then they do more of the TVMA and I was watching that sequence unfold and he kept asking about the money and I'm like I love how it just like, yeah, it's like a good point of view, almost Like it's like is that the most realistic thing about this show?
Speaker 1:Because, like I feel like in every form of medium, it's like you'll get your money. You know you can get your money or you either get killed. Sometimes you get your money, but then this one's like hey, just the money.
Speaker 2:And like everybody just walks by him and doesn't acknowledge him until they do it until they do it Because I kept thinking to myself I'm like man, he's about probably one more time asking for the money before he gets shot in the face. And guess what? Boom, it does happen, tvma. Yeah, he gets shot to bits Not to biscuits and then it looks like it's they do the Maya and Bonnie do the Batman and Commissioner Gordon from the Batman, which is like I'm going to punch it now, really.
Speaker 1:He said you know you should punch me, I love Jeffrey Wright more than I love air. I go, I love that guy.
Speaker 2:So she wallops Bonnie, she's basically springs herself off this QA like a Punisher-esque sequence here, which I loved.
Speaker 1:She bussed through the door, like through the like through the wall. Yeah, Make America skate again. The heavy metal starts going. She definitely wasn't using her powers in the sequence right. She doesn't use her powers until the end bit.
Speaker 2:She doesn't even know what powers are.
Speaker 1:No, she could just fight. Good, how did that guy roll so far? How did she propel him so far into the rink?
Speaker 2:She's just like that. She's built like an ox. Maybe she should play Abby. You know what I would be on like. All you got to do is recon Abby.
Speaker 1:Oh no, no, you know who she's got, who she should play. She's a 6'5 woman from. That's part of the scars. And last of us, part two, that Abby just boxes for you know what I hate that fight because that fight lasts so long and I punching her a hundred times and she won't fall. We're gonna talk about the last was part two. We are next week probably beside the point skating rink fight. I love that little. They do that little old boy homage where the camera tilts, yeah, and the camera keeps tilting and she's like fighting along the whole. That that was good stuff. I'll equal Cox. Like you could tell, she really put in a lot of work to be, you know, to make all this hand-to-hand stuff Feel real and feel realistic. I would love her in a John Wick movie too. I think she would be incredible in a John Wick movie also to, you know, shout out, shout out Marvel.
Speaker 2:first of all, she is a legit deaf Mm-hmm, you know, amputee mm-hmm that you know plays this character, which I think is awesome. Also, her first Echoes, her first acting role, yep, which is crazy. I think she's tremendous.
Speaker 2:No, she's great, she's really good because obviously and we talked about this when we talked about the last of us TV show Um being a deaf actor. You really have to nail the mannerism. Yep, and she sells so much with her expressions, like it can't be understood enough how good she is in Most, mostly every scene she's in yep, she's able to sell so much with just her. When we get to, we get to the end of episode three, when, when Fisk, when she is confronted by Fisk at the end of episode three, like her eyes, the way she sells that moment of when he shows up is Phenomenal. It's like seeing a ghost. Yeah, yeah, it is Henry. Basically is like well, I guess, I guess we're in this together, yeah, yeah, cuz now.
Speaker 1:Cuz now, it's either you win or I'm dead. So and yeah, she returns home and there's Fisk waiting for yeah what's up, stepdad, when I was a boy, oh no, oh, that's important though it is, because did that whole, did that whole thing canonize Netflix to the MCU? Was it that that actually might have been it?
Speaker 2:yeah, because it was the episode one when they've like first meet and he's like my father also died, I'm like tell me wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on you're oversimplifying. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's an oversimplification he gives her. I Love this, I love the little character things with Fisk. Like he gives her this augmented reality contact lens so that it's easier for him to communicate with her, because he just Can't be bothered to learn sign language. Yeah, why would I learn sign language for my niece? For my niece. But I'll learn Chinese to communicate with Madam Gal.
Speaker 1:Because, because drugs, because drugs are more important than my niece.
Speaker 2:Anyway, hmm, back at the ranch, so he does his Fisk, he fisk's about yeah, I mean Vincent Dinoffery.
Speaker 1:I can't say enough about Vincent Dinoffery. He's just, I brought wine, I bought wine and you can kill me if you want, but she's I, you know, thought we'd have Sunday dinner, like we used to, and she's like it's Thursday.
Speaker 2:I like that bit. I like that she dumps the wine down the drain.
Speaker 1:So because smart, you don't know, you don't know. The knife drops on the floor and again you, you're gonna probably make a point about another TV, ville, and that's.
Speaker 2:He's got the home-winded thing, man, where every scene he's in is.
Speaker 1:You don't know what's gonna happen and it's crazy because he's not you know. Obviously he's physically demanding, but you know what it did it when daredevil it was when he killed one of the Russians, and daredevil, and he just absolutely snaps and Demolishes his head in the car like we got that episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do a similar sequence, yep, and again it's the same thing of like ooh, like I don't know what he's about to snap and he had. Now he has proper reason to snap and do whatever he wants. She shot him in the head.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, like let's talk about that poor ice cream vendor for a second man.
Speaker 1:No, no, what do you mean? Poor?
Speaker 2:That's all horrible human. Be actually on the side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't feel bad for him. You, you yelled at a deaf, amputee little girl because she won an ice cream and she was trying to tell you she wants ice cream man Fisk Freakin.
Speaker 2:Now he's Molly whopping me. Says the ice cream vendor and he got Molly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did get Molly walks. He got Molly'd, and then he got what? That was crazy, just.
Speaker 2:Fisk just Pummelled this poor man. Not even a poor man, he deserved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. He definitely deserved it. Um, this might have the most confusing backstory of Of the episode so far not really, but she has like a seizure, well, I mean. Okay, so the big piece of this episode is obviously you know what this episode plays, as this plays a lot like episode five of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, because you have the opening sequence. Be this insane.
Speaker 1:It's some of my favorite bits from the whole MCU is the John Walker versus Bucky and Sam fight and then the rest of the episode is trying to do the emotional setup to get you into the finale and like we got to get you your suit too. We gotta, we gotta get you your suit. But but to be fair, I really did like the scene that I go in that's what I was getting at is like this is I think this is a more refined version of it and like obviously we knew this was gonna happen. I mean, I think it was pretty. I think it was pretty easy to gauge that Maya's grandmother also was in this lineage of of women and her family, that you know I had this power.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I I love the song that plays Prayers down by the river. It's a really beautiful sequence and again the Lockwell Cox just crushes that scene. No, they're both, they're both, they're both really really good and she sells that like that that the anger and the confusion of, of a young girl who didn't understand why her family seemingly wanted nothing to do with her anymore and you know, you know that classic broken family dynamic of her telling her grandmother like well, my father told me, you guys didn't want anything to do with me.
Speaker 2:And her grandmother's like no, it was just, your father was just wrapped up in bad people. Yeah, and then my daughter died, yeah, so I was like I was angry, right and I was angry, and you know my love characters like that.
Speaker 1:I love characters like that. I just like when characters I said I heard I love the way they build her credit mother's character, because I Sometimes I like the frustration, like that's such a human thing to do, like I love when characters do the human thing Versus my daughter died.
Speaker 2:I was angry and I just I couldn't and I couldn't look at you anymore, because you reminded me so much of my daughter and like that all makes sense and what. The other thing that makes sense is Maya's reaction when she's like, when she pretty much walks out, she's like you. Basically you could have done things differently.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean maybe things would have been different. I mean her. Her ex-husband tries to also tell Maya's grandmother that, like my grandfather tries to like this is kind of on you, like this isn't like you were doing it to the father, like now you just did that to the daughter that needed that, that could have used you at this point, mm-hmm. And now she has to go through all these other things without you too.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah, basically because Maya is forced to go see her because she has like a seizure related to her powers, to the visions that she's having, and her grandmother basically explains like you come from a lineage of the Choctaw people, you know they were like the first people that had this gift and it passes down generation to generation.
Speaker 1:Your mother had it and Her mother, and that's another piece of the power. So her mother was a was a healer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which we get in episode five. Right, it's like the final, final Thing, piece of the puzzle yeah, because the whole thing, Fisk, is like you can have the Empire just come home. You're right, yeah, yeah, it gives them the, gives her the ultimatum and she shows up at the hotel room Just ready for that action, like she's gonna I do like that bit. When he was like you're gonna kill me again. Yeah, she's just like yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hold on before you do that, cuz you do stand on business when I was a boy, when I was a boy. No, no. Episode five opens with you. Learn about Maya's mother. You learn about her power set which, like I said, she's a healer. That's the and, like I said, that's like the final piece.
Speaker 2:You find out at the episode, episode four, that, like Fisk, was furious, oh that she didn't accept his offer. Yeah, like he genuinely like expected her to come, yeah, and they're like we were telling her and we lost her, like she's not coming, and he Does the classic Wilson fist. Just you embarrass me in front of Vanessa. You embarrass also, which we overlooked in one of the flashbacks he had that interpreter murdered.
Speaker 1:Oh, didn't he have both or just the first one? Think just the first one. But it was hilarious cuz she's in the and again more TV, ma's, she's just in the room, she's like I promise not to tell anybody.
Speaker 2:I was like oh crap, like that's just shoots her offscreen, wraps her up, packs her up, and he knows that Maya can't hear mm-hmm. That happened and he's just like mm-hmm. But yeah, he did. He did kill his dad that time, who also deserved it.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:So we get to the, the big, the big festival, but, yeah, the flashback. So Maya hits a woodpecker with a slingshot, takes it to her mom and she's like help the bird. And her mom's like Did you do this?
Speaker 1:and she's like I just wanted to see if I can just like our people don't do. We don't do this like we protect yeah, protect the world. We protect the land, the creatures?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the woodpeckers are like messengers for our people. They carry messages and they, you know, dot them into the trees, and that's how our people will transmit messages to each other. So don't, don't, don't do that ever again. Maya has the, the flashback again, the car accident which you find out that Maya's mother was murdered by Fisk.
Speaker 1:I also think it's an effective, not by fist, by, like just another.
Speaker 2:I also think it's an effective use of like her mother healing Like the woodpecker and then go into the car accident because, like in that moment, it makes you realize like Maya probably wished that, or hope that she'd be able to heal her mom, mm-hmm, like in that instant, like in the car accident. So I thought that was a pretty, you know, powerful moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean this. I actually I actually do think this finale is not, not as bad as I thought it was gonna be. I, I had my, I had my doubts and my, my nervousness going into it. But I mean the big things you get out of this. You get fisk, you know, classic suit again. Another cliche Super villain goes to a characters you know, one of the side characters that the main character loves and just like, ooh, I might see you later. And they just calm their spirits for a little bit and then she's her grandmother, yeah.
Speaker 2:And she's like, are you beer for the parade? He's like, yeah, I'm just in town.
Speaker 1:When I was a boy. When I was a boy, I used to love festivals.
Speaker 2:And he's like I couldn't help me notice your, your sign language necklace by niece. My niece is Deaf. She's like oh, that's weird. My granddaughter is deaf, she's also from here.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't have to be Wilson criminal, wilson Fisk, what'd you?
Speaker 2:and he's like hmm, your granddaughter, huh, he's like oh and then cuz, cuz, emotion.
Speaker 1:Maya's mom From beyond the grave comes back to reconcile with Maya. Good stuff, I like it. Good stuff, not bad, and it's a great transition point. It's like a perfect propulsion, you know, you know, like the I don't know how to explain this you know, like this, everything does this, all this, all the shows do this like your propulsion into the last, you know Action set piece of the thing like this was a good propulsion piece to use well, this is the, you know.
Speaker 2:It's like an aura setting propulsion piece. This is the essence of heroism. Right, essentially for her. She gets a suit you suit, you suit alert you suit alert?
Speaker 1:What's the plan? What's the? What's the? What's the big old plan? Stop Fisk. Well, I mean, what's the villain plan? That's what people care about. Do a terrorism, do a terrorism is exactly what the plan is. The road, middle-early or Eastern European guys back, yeah, with a I love the heat. Is he my favorite character in this whole thing? Do do a terrorism, do a terrorism. We're gonna. We're gonna attack this whole thing cuz Maya said no and I don't like that. Mm-hmm, I don't like to be told no, for when I go of all your ancestors.
Speaker 2:Maya huh, Say he's back. Say that again.
Speaker 1:They really damsel and distressed Bonnie a lot, a lot, and it's just like.
Speaker 2:It's like it's all they don't until they.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get to it. So they're gonna do a terrorism. Henry's on lookout. Great job, great job, good job, henry. They all got inside. Oh, the only thing that would have made this better if Henry and the in the Eastern European guy would have fought like fist fought and like, but like I kind of like.
Speaker 2:Henry just shooting him from like 50 yards out and then winking.
Speaker 1:You know what I would have liked if they did, if they played it has like how they did in Iron man 2 with happy and the one guy Like they just they just fight and then echo just clears out of the room of people and they're just like I got him.
Speaker 2:I liked her sneaking into the festival and being like clearly distressed about like the whole thing because, like she has to Sneak into like a dance presentation and like she Can't hear.
Speaker 2:She's got to like, feel everything out and she just looks scared to death. And then she gets into the warehouse and there he is, big Willie style comes over the intercom. And here he comes Sauntering into the, into the room and he's like and she, well before that she removed her the AR contact. So he uses bonding to translate great, great bit of villainy there. Mm-hmm, I want your closest person to you to translate all my frustrations. He's like you know I'm gonna have a question.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna do this to me. I'm gonna have a question after this. But Biscuit shows up and uses a monster truck. So kill the, kill the henchman or trap them, I don't know. All right, so what's fist big plan, like I said, we're gonna do the terrorism, force her to join me, or no? No, this is just out of anger. Now, at this point, it's just like well, now man say goodbye cuz, and then Take it.
Speaker 1:You guys ever see Star Wars derise the Skywalker? Yeah, I am all the. I am all the Jedi that came by.
Speaker 2:I am exactly what happens.
Speaker 1:Exactly what this is. Because Maya finds a way to channel every single one of her ancestors, which is fine, but somehow she gets to loan the powers to her cut. So her grandmother sure, how does it go to her cousin cuz I thought it was just my is linear, I don't know. I don't know how family trees work. I don't know. Man, ask why I don't know. A little goofy. It is a little goofy because then they all just get super strength. They start cooking. This is like what? Rightfully so. She's 75 years old. She doesn't lifted that man over her head body preps she's gorilla.
Speaker 2:Press this man into the ceiling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was yeah, he was beside himself. I also would have been so Like, where did this come from? And the only thing I don't that I wish we would have got. I wished my and Fisk would have Like fought for a little bit. I cuz he goes to do his his pile.
Speaker 2:He's just pile, drive, move, and then she's the big the big double ax, yeah, the one that he killed spider-man with.
Speaker 1:correct, it's a spider-verse right, and then his signature move, and then she transports him, she, professor exes it which.
Speaker 1:When did you get this power? I thought you just were able to. Is this emotional healing like? Is this like psychiatric healing? That doesn't make sense. Yeah, she professor exes it and then he goes to see the wall again. At least he's a Yankees fan. That's beside the point, wilson. Enough enough. Grab my hand, wilson. Maybe if I could pull you from the front, maybe if I can pull you from your father's apartment, maybe if I can pull you from your father's abuse, you won't turn into the kingpin and we can leave. They practice a track for Patrick Stewart into this. The Illuminati parts, the worst part of Multiverse of men. That doesn't matter to anything.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what happens. She traps him in a in his mind prison of reliving his father's abuse of his mother and he's like.
Speaker 1:I and she says it's time to let go of this anger. Well, wilson, but he's on, but he doesn't. He's like just freaking out. Yeah, he's freaking out. All the hammers back, that was the thing she, uh well, the fist actually does this. He gives my the hammer earlier in the season. Be like, if you're gonna kill me, use the weapon that I used to kill, actually my. I killed my father when I was a boy.
Speaker 2:Um, and then she leaves the. She leaves fist my prison. He's like what did you do?
Speaker 1:What did you do so nothing changed. Is he just the same fist, just with a little more introspection? Yeah, like, what did that do for him?
Speaker 2:It freaked him out.
Speaker 1:But it bamboozled him, oh yeah. And then he just leaves like this is like he just keeps yelling what did you do? And then he gets into his escalated leaves. He just gets into the back of the escalated leaves and then he just runs for mayor of New York. I don't know how those things are mutually exclusive to each other.
Speaker 2:He got into his escalated leaves and then he did the handle worst. Yeah, he's the baby on the monster.
Speaker 1:Maybe I want to run for office. He's out. How did that turn him into a politician? My niece mind trapped me and my father's.
Speaker 2:Well, does it seem like it changed him.
Speaker 1:Well, that's one of my issues with the finale is that very thing, and it's the same thing that happened in Hawkeye. With the same character. They did the same thing again. The only thing that happens to physically in Hawkeye is gets shot in the face. He didn't change, there's no change.
Speaker 2:I don't think he changed.
Speaker 1:No, that's my issue.
Speaker 2:Unless he changed in respect to Maya, but how?
Speaker 1:is that going to play into anything else? I don't think she cares, but that's not good writing. Maybe we missed something. I think we had to have because something's not adding up, because you went out of your way and again, you made a good point before we hopped on. It felt like this show had more to it, but also not enough, like it felt like there was something more, but it felt like it had too much of something.
Speaker 2:I don't think we missed anything, because the week here's. Here's what the recap says. Using her powers, maya takes Fisk to the memory of his father, beating his mother in an effort to heal his trauma and help him let go of his anger. Returning to reality and outraged Fisk so clearly didn't let go of his anger. An outraged Fisk demands to know what she did to him and leaves the festival before the police arrive.
Speaker 1:And again that's a non-finale because Fisk does not need to be there and it's the same finale. And again they didn't even like. I feel like they didn't reconcile anything for their relationship, like what in reli you know what you could have played into and what they should have focused on it's the father aspect, because they should have played something more. They should have gotten the actor that played her father and inserted him somehow into that final scene and played off the two of those things that might have played a little bit better of like. See, I know my father did these things, but my father cared about me. You don't actually care about me, you might think you do, but again it's just such a non-finale Like. It's just such like a nothing-.
Speaker 2:Well, because we don't know what actually happened, like we don't know why, like did he honestly just leave because he was just so like bamboozled by what had happened?
Speaker 1:Like he had never Well again like, yeah, he's like I've never had to fight anybody with powers. This is weird.
Speaker 2:Like he never experienced something like that before. So he was just like I gotta go.
Speaker 1:I don't know Him. Getting in the escalade is so funny.
Speaker 2:I can't believe she, just she legit. Just hit him with the Professor X like I'm trapping you in your mind prison and then um but then there was just no resolution. Well, there rarely is when Professor X does it, so I guess that's par for four.
Speaker 1:Well, professor, and this is a take that we're gonna that Professor X isn't the best person, but that's that's. That's. That's a conversation for another day, wilson.
Speaker 2:Wilson, you're better than this, but like he isn't.
Speaker 1:But again, it's just hilarious because all right, post-credits and Maya goes back, she has dinner with the fam, the fam, cool, that's echo. Anyway, the post-credits scene Fisk is like that experience with superpowers really made me want to run for mayor.
Speaker 2:Well, he's just watching the news.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was watching the news and they were like well, the polls are showing that you know somebody you know looking for somebody that's tough.
Speaker 1:they're looking for somebody that's not afraid to speak their mind. And then Wilson's fix like I'm not afraid to. They said they're like for a real fighter. He's like I fight, maybe I should be mayor. I'm him, I'm him. That's exactly what he should have said. He said I'm a I could fight, I'm him. And then the season should have just ended. Chingpin will return. They're doing like a first take-esque like CNN show of like the, the, the. I don't know what this is. This doesn't belong in this show. It just doesn't. It was weird, man. It's such a good post-credits scene too. It's probably one of the best post-credits scenes.
Speaker 2:It was weird. It's just why is it here? The whole resolution was just weird.
Speaker 1:The whole thing was because it's like, no, he didn't learn anything. Nothing happened. Their relation that was the whole core of this thing was the relationship between Kingpin and Maya, and nothing was resolved.
Speaker 2:Unless she just thinks it was resolved.
Speaker 1:It's not like they can communicate about it. I mean, he's just sorry, he just left, he just let he got put in the escalator. It was just him. He's just freaking out. And then he just goes in the escalator and drives away, and that was it. He just left. And then he's just like. You know what I'm going to do now? I'm going to run for mayor of New York and they just let him leave, oh yeah, and the police show up and he's just gone. I don't know, man. This show was interesting. Daredevil shaking his head right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you let Fisk get away. Me personally, I would also let Fisk get away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because law justice, that's so confused. Yeah, that's echo. What have you been doing, man? Huh, that's it. That's echo. How do you feel about it? It?
Speaker 2:was fine. I think it was again. I think it was fine, I loved her.
Speaker 1:There's just that. Oh yeah, again. The huge wins, like with Cox, is just a revelation. As echo, she needs to be in more stuff. I would go out of my way to get her, and I think she is going to be in Daredevil born again. I do think she's going to. I hope they give her like a little arc in there, just like a little arc. 18 episodes, 18 episodes. You got to play around a little bit.
Speaker 2:They can do an echo arc, we can do. A punisher arc again we can do a heroes for high.
Speaker 1:Maybe save that, but I do think that they're going to do a little Jessica Jones. We can do a Jessica Jones arc. We could do like now you can actually have, you know, not filler episodes, but you can have like these little episodes that just take place. We can bring Nobu back. Oh man, I love the fact that I would love Nobu to come back. Every time he comes back, there's like, oh, no, nobu.
Speaker 2:This guy always kicks my ass Worse than everybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just put the knives down, nobu, can we fight like men? God, you got the swingy chains. Yeah, you're annoying me. You would embarrass me in front of Vanessa and Karen, and Karen and and Electra. He did embarrass him in front of Electra. We need to bring Electra back. Find a way. I don't care how you do it, dragon bones.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Marvel, netflix, the Defenders what the heck was that?
Speaker 2:Okay, I got something for you. Okay, kingpin runs for mayor. What if he runs against Luke Cage?
Speaker 1:I okay, so I so I watched the here's for higher episode and then I fell asleep and then when I woke up it was the finale, and then I forgot that Luke Cage was running the club, which might I'm not even joking, that might be the worst character ending in the entirety of the MCU, because it's cancer and assassination, because it was literally everything that Luke Cage was against.
Speaker 2:And remember that bit when he showed up in season two of Jessica Jones and was like, don't be like me. I had to do this. I had to become the mob boss.
Speaker 1:Just punch the building and break it and then it's gone. And Jessica Jones, rightly so, was like what?
Speaker 2:What are you talking about? And he's like goodbye, he does the sailor movie. He's like I must depart now. And she's like but you didn't do anything. And he just turns his friggin, his petticoat and he leaves. In a suit I don't like it.
Speaker 1:You neither. No bueno, what if he did run against Kingpin, though? Oh Marvel's what if? What if he did run against Kingpin for mayor? And it's like a succession episode. It's just a debate.
Speaker 2:Debate episode between Mike Coulter and Vincent de la Friot man.
Speaker 1:I'm Luke Cage Dabs. When he gets out there, when I was a boy, when I was a boy, you know he said, you know Luke Cage was just like spit, some like just some like alliteration or on amount of people, Like he would just say something very Luke Cage-esque.
Speaker 2:Method. Man is the.
Speaker 1:Method man as the moderator would be great. Method man and Stephen A Smith I forgot. Stephen A Smith was in Luke Cage. Todd Bowles was in Luke Cage. Todd Bowles was in Luke Cage. What was Luke Cage season to Luke Cage? Season two was a fever dream. Mariah Stokes, bushmaster, was maybe in the top three MCU villains of all time. See, one day we're going to do an episode. We're going to call it the actuals, because there's the, there's the, there's the real answer, and then there's the actual, real answer. And we're going to do it for everything. Like we're going to talk about the. We're going to do like the MCU. We're going to do like what's the? Who's the best character in the MCU? And then people are going to be like Iron man. And then we're going to be like who's the actual best character in the MCU? And we're going to be like it's Bushmaster, it's Bushmaster.
Speaker 2:Remember he just walked up on Luke Cage on the side.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, you want to talk about standing on business for nothing. Luke Cage was just there. Damn damn tink you. You're bulletproof. And that just demolished that man. He evaporated that man. Danny ran to pothead canonically in the MCU.
Speaker 2:He evaporated Luke Cage so hard he had to ask the iron fist.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, the iron fist suck, or he like he, the iron fist, sense that Luke.
Speaker 2:Cage is just like.
Speaker 1:I think my black friend needs help.
Speaker 2:It's an okay day. You got your ass kicked by Bushmaster, did you?
Speaker 1:Good thing, my cheese working now.
Speaker 2:Remember that episode where Luke Cage and Bushmaster teamed up.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it. That was so good. I will. That's what needs to happen. What did I say that needs to happen in the MCU to characters? No, no, no, no, I'd avatar. Corkch and Jake Sully need to team up to take down the theory Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let us be on the writing team for five Echo though. Yeah, that's it, wrap it up. Yeah, what have you been doing?
Speaker 2:Playing the last of us. No, no, I put down Balder's Gate three for a while and I'm like, well, last of Us. Part two is coming out.
Speaker 1:And I also will be playing the last of us, because the Last of Us Part two remaster will be coming out this week, this week. What day? Friday? Friday, it is almost here and my depression is going to kick in. Yeah, I talk about your experience from 2020 playing that game because you played it. You played that game fresh. You played that game when it came out.
Speaker 2:Last of Us, part two. Yeah, 2020 was a great year for us, for me, for you know the people, the people that enjoy being trapped inside their houses. I was like this is great free vacation. Get this guy canceled. So yeah, last of Us, part two was part of my just wicked game streak of 2020, where I played Final Fantasy 7 remake. Miles Morales was in there.
Speaker 1:First flagship PlayStation five. Like we're, I'm here, this is a Shima, and then obviously I played Last of Us, part two and just emotionally.
Speaker 2:I never, I never finished a game and just been exhausted mentally, emotionally, everything, to the point where, like, I got the, got back to the home screen, the credits rolled, and then we're like new game plus and I uninstalled the game. I liked it, I loved it. It was just I was just so locked in and I was just so tired by the time I finished it. Like I felt that entire journey for all those characters and I have not picked it up since.
Speaker 1:Then why would you?
Speaker 2:It's. It's one of the few games that I've never gone back and revisited. I usually do. I usually do dip into games multiple times, especially ones I really like. Like I've played Spider-Man multiple times. I've played Miles Morales multiple times. I've played Last of Us Part one multiple times. I've never gone back to the last of us two since it came out. So I'm excited to re experience it again off of after almost almost four years after the first time, because it's I've never really taken that big of a break off of a game after experiencing it for the first time and then re experiencing it.
Speaker 2:So playing part one again, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember why I really like this game in this in a series and just remembering what I can remember from Last of Us, part two, especially the gameplay stuff, I don't think I don't think they get enough credit for that, for the technical leap they made between those two games, especially like from the gameplay. I think it has as far as like those third person over the shoulder kind of actiony adventure games go. I think as far as like the gameplay, combat it's probably the best of any of those. To be honest, with just the terms of like the realism ones, yeah, just the sheer stuff that you can do. You know how you can approach like every, every combat scenario is almost like a little mini sandbox. You can really dictate how you go about any particular encounter and you understand that from like.
Speaker 1:if you've ever seen like videos of people playing, like the fast paced version, like where they make those edits of them, you can tell how creative you can get with it, because you can really do whatever you want, to kind of take down an enemy set.
Speaker 2:You can set traps, you can go stealth, you can run and gun like if you really want to you can do no bullet like no guns, but like explosives and shames. So just being able to dive into all that again I'm excited to do. I anticipate this will be a bit easier on me the second time, like knowing everything that happens, knowing what's coming as far as like the pacing of it.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure, that's a good point being ready for the Ellie's Abbey transition where, like I didn't know quite how that was going to work the first time playing it, and then I got it, like I figured it out. Obviously you do the three days and then three days. So knowing that's coming, I think it'll be a little bit easier on me the second time around. Like I can like mentally be like, okay, I'm about to take over as Abby and essentially start the game over. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to Friday.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to try out the roguelite mode that they're adding, especially coming off the hills of what God of War, ragnarok did, implementing their roguelite style with the Valhalla DLC. So, like I am a big fan of these bigger IPs taking a swing at like a roguelite genre, because I think it is what it's done, while it's probably one of the best genres in gaming because it's so addicting. I was telling you about Sifu earlier, which is a combat roguelite, like a fighting roguelite. So I love the genre. So I'm excited to give that a whirl. Excited to use different characters with the Last of Us 2 engine. Excited to use Joel with the Last of Us 2 engine.
Speaker 1:Funny enough. You know, I'm looking forward to playing as Lev. I don't know why Lev is a bit enticing to use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know what they're adding to it is basically every character. They're not just going to be skins, they're going to like each character is going to have their own kind of definitive play style. Mel's still going to be pregnant, so, yeah, just looking forward to finishing Last of Us Part 1 in a couple days and then get ready for this weekend and playing Last of Us Part 2 again Nice.
Speaker 1:I'm not looking forward one bit to playing that game, because your whole point about it's going to be easier. I think it's going to be infinitely tougher for me to play this game because I know what's going to happen. And it's not the Joel stuff that's going to happen, it's the Ellie sitting in the water at the end of that game and Ellie leaving Dina at the end of that game is going to emotionally demolish me by the time I play that game. I don't want to do it. I really don't, because I think that game is one of the most thought-provoking and beautiful games ever made and I just I don't want to do it again, but I have to because it's my job. I'm going out there because it's my job, says Hawkeye. So this Percy Jackson show is pretty dang good. So this is my theory.
Speaker 1:I'm obviously I'm a little bit younger than you, so you had the prime of being a Harry Potter kid and not movie Harry Potter kid, book Harry Potter kid. So I had the subsequent afters of that. I'm obviously we're going to count out Chronicles of Narnia, because those books were written before all of these, but I had Percy Jackson. Percy Jackson was like my thing that was coming out while I was a child that I was reading and that I was invested. And I didn't love reading when I was a kid, but I loved reading Percy Jackson and I had the I'm number four series is another one that I had. Maybe they'll do that again, but maybe because the movie is something, but this Percy Jackson show is, is, it is.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say that it's the new age Harry Potter, because it has that has not earned that, but they are on a phenomenal track. In my opinion, it is much more faithful to the source material. And when I was a kid I swore by those Percy Jackson movies with Logan Lerman when I was a boy, but I, so I watched the first two episodes and then I rewatched the movies and I was like, oh, these are, why is he 1617 and not a boy? That's important. Yeah, and again, to give credit to the show there, I told you this the fact that their kids now is so great because they're going to get to grow up with these characters and by the time they hit, like you know, by the time, obviously, they're going to end on the last Olympian, by the time they get to that and they're like these, you know they're going to be like 1718.
Speaker 1:And they're going to be, like you know, adults. It's going to be that whole stranger things thing, like maybe not exaggerated. They're going to have more time, but I just can't wait for all the characters that we meet in.
Speaker 1:The subject matter matures with the, with the cast, and that's what they're having a Harry Potter and that's why the Harry Potter movie, like the swing that they took to switch to Alfonso Cuarón to do one of the movies, is absurd on paper but just you know, so genius at the same time, because the first two movies were were straight kids movies and then Alfonso Cuarón takes over and then they turn into teen movies and by the time you get to the Half-Blood Prince, you know these are, these are just films at this point, like these are just straight up. You know not, they're they're still YA, but they're just normal films at this point, like that anybody can consume at this point and I and I feel like Percy Jackson might take that same approach we always say the best thing to do is have your creator on set. And Rick Rodin is, is there and he's an executive producer, which he was not on the movies. And you can tell there's major characters missing from the movies. I mean, aries is probably the biggest one that's missing from the movies and the aura of Tally is missing from the first movie as well. They immediately attack that. I just it's going really well.
Speaker 1:The show is structured well. You know my favorite part about how familiar are you with Percy Jackson? Not overly, not overly For those who know that, no, the best thing that this show is doing very well is Percy's fatal flaw. They're, they're, they're attacking it right out of the gate, and I really appreciate that, because that's what makes him, in my opinion, one of my favorite, you know, fictional characters that I grew up with. It's his nobility is the thing that kills him. It's just, it's the fact of the matter. It's, it's who he is. He cannot help but do this. His relationship with his mom's incredible and the number one thing that this gets right and Aries really accentuates that in episode four, episode five is the gods suck. Like they, they're. They're not good beings. Like they for the for the. Like Athena gets mad at Anna Annabeth and like purposely puts them in a scenario that could kill them. Like that's just who they are.
Speaker 1:Hashtag Kratos was right, zeus, I'm coming for your Tim Zeus, but no, this show is just it is. It feels correct, like that's just it, just it feels correct. It feels like they're on the right track. Like I said, the thing that excites me the most is the growing up with these kids and how they're going to evolve, and not only as, like you know, the characters, but as actors as well too. I think that's awesome. The kid that plays Percy is maybe one of the best castings as Percy Jackson, which we asked for.
Speaker 1:We pretty much nailed when I think we knew as soon as the Adam project came out and then after this was like the first thing that popped was just like he's going to play Percy Jackson, and I was like, yep, that makes all the sense in the world. But you can see it and it's just, it's the, it's the little subtle scenes of this show. That's just really incredible.
Speaker 2:I love how, uh, I love his like I don't give a fff, you know attitude that he has towards the gods, Like when he like confronts Aries and he like gets an Aries face and Aries is like whoa.
Speaker 1:He said what's up, cousin, like I'm gonna, like he's like Aries, like I'm you know what they call me right now Like I'm literally, I'm quite literally the God of war and he's just like you think that, you think you think I care, like I could care less.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love it so much I'm. I've been watching it. I really I really enjoy it and, like you, I'm I hope this sticks around, like I hope this doesn't become like the Netflix thing where, like the promise of like multiple seasons and then after three they're like yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you know the first, the inline books, it's lightning, thief, sea of monsters, titans, curse, the something labored, I don't get into escaping me and then the last Olympian, so all those things are being set up. The characters are being set up Well, like Clarice just being like I mean obviously Clarice is Aries daughter, so she's just also herself like a warmonger is great, Like it's just the, just the character work that they're doing is pretty strong right now. So, and I love the relationship between Annabeth and Percy right now, it's like and you could tell, like the one they stick to just it's great, it's just such good stuff. I think this show operates in the subtleness very, very well and operates in between the cracks. I think I like that ending of episode three spoiler alert but again, again, this is like the first you see of Percy's fatal flaw, like he tries to sacrifice himself immediately to save Annabeth and Grover, and it's just like man, like there's some like like grown adult shows that can't even figure this out about their main character and this show is figuring it out immediately. It's just, it's really good stuff.
Speaker 1:And the show looks good too. The show actually looks pretty dang good. Yeah, it does, and that's, and that's the the, the PIE, the Project Infinite podcast. Oh, the PIP. The PIE is Project Infinite Entertainment.
Speaker 2:Yeah true, yeah, that's gonna do it for us this week Down with PIP. Yeah, you know me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, say the socials.
Speaker 2:Uh, I was on Twitter at Project Project IFF underscore pod. You can follow us on Instagram at the project infinite pod. Follow us on Facebook also. Um yeah, next week, drop the the, just Facebook, the Facebook.
Speaker 1:That's my plug for saying we're going to review the social network next week. This is, to me, just kidding. We're gonna try to talk about the last of us probably last of us, part two remaster, because I'm just saying, even if we don't finish it, we'll still talk. Yeah, we can still talk about that as a thing.
Speaker 2:Talk probably some last time when we record next week.
Speaker 1:I might not finish it, but I just feel a madman rage coming upon me that will just propel me to finish this game happens, man, and I will delete myself from from society once I'm doing this.
Speaker 2:So we'll talk about that we did talk about the first game last year ahead of the head of the show, so I'm excited to talk about more about part two. Just a I'll mention it next week too, but just a light spoiler warning for last season two, most likely, yeah, yeah, yeah. Slash three, yeah. So if you don't want to, if you don't want to know anything, if you're one of the people that hasn't played the games and just watches the show, maybe, maybe, skip a bit. Don't skip it. You're not allowed to skip episodes. Skip a bit of next week. Here's talk about the mechanics and the gameplay and all that stuff, but as far as like story, story details, maybe, maybe, skip that bit, because obviously it's going to influence season two. So, yeah, we'll talk about then. Last of us, part two next week.
Speaker 1:And our fun question is going to be who's? Who's more elite, rick Grimes or Joel Miller? Rick Grimes has the fact that his zombies are weak, but Joel has the fact that he can craft like a healing kit midfight. But Joel also doesn't have Shane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we will next week. Why is he still coming? Why is he still coming? That's the rare man. That's the rare, that's the one that might put the Walking Dead crew over the over the over the next week. Next week, we'll do our five on five walking dead.
Speaker 1:Yes, last battle Royale, we're going to get an NBA roster of of who would win.
Speaker 2:No we're not putting the resident evil crew in there. No, it's not fair, it's not fair, it's not fair.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know what You're. So that each team we both get one wild card from any zombie media across all of time, and I know I'm picking for my team. I know I'm picking for mine Wait can we say that the same movie it's from at the same time? Oh, I was going to gaming. I was going to game.
Speaker 2:I'm going movies. Oh, yeah, then we're gonna have different answers. Yeah, because I'm picking Chris Redfield. Okay, that's fine you know what I'm picking.
Speaker 1:I'm picking Brad Pitt from World War Z, because the fact that he outlived the first 30 seconds of that thing is a insane. Chris Redfield punched a boulder man. Those zombies were putting up Usain Bolt number of running. I don't like. I'm more of like give me whatever mutated zombie you can find, as long as it's moving super slow, it's fine. But when those zombies are putting up track star numbers, that's, that's an issue. Yeah, the red scene from World War Z where, like the zombies, just like walking into the glass and I was like now this is hold, this is hold. Now this is what.
Speaker 2:I call climbing on top of each other. Climb over the dog. They build like the zombie mountain to jump over the wheel.
Speaker 1:Remember when they infected themselves with the, with the virus, and they're like walking through that, through that little like containment unit and everybody gets that Pepsi, because maybe that's the power he has over Chris Redfield is the product placement it could be. How do you say get out of the way in Chinese? That's my biggest issue with Transformers. Age of Extinction is product placement. Yep, and and and. What's his name? And, freaking, what's the? This name that was in the last, the last of us, that was in Deadpool two in Deadpool. You know who I'm talking about. His friend, oh, tj Miller, yeah, and TJ Miller.
Speaker 2:Those are my bad guys Bad guy TJ. Miller, we got to go. Man, yeah, we do got to go. All right, guys, next week last of us Part 2 is going to be fun. I don't know if it'll be fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gonna be an episode.
Speaker 2:It'll be an episode.
Speaker 1:All right, this is gonna be the first time I cry live on the phone For me from the careful man.
Speaker 2:You gotta be real careful here from the biscuits in the podcast Biscuits.
Speaker 1:Biscuits is cool. You could have just gave me a fish and I would have been happy. No, no, no. Why is he getting the escalate? He just he just leaves. He just left. He just set up. Y'all, take it easy, I'm out. He didn't learn anything, he just got more trauma. Maya actually did the most evil thing a hero's done to anybody ever. She made the villain relive trauma and just he just left. I don't know what that was. He just he just left. What did you do? What did you do? What did you do? What did she do?
Speaker 2:to me. Is there a shrink in my room?
Speaker 1:What did she do? I'm telling you it's just even funnier because he's like you know what, I'm gonna run for a minute. It's like, okay, that's fine, have fun. I don't know what that was. What if Daredevil finds out? The reason that Fisk has run and ruined his life is because Echo showed him a childhood trauma.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I saw you just gonna do that to everybody now.
Speaker 1:I saw you coming from a mile away. You embarrassed me in front of Vanessa.
Speaker 2:I do like that. He went for the big, the big overhand punch, yeah, yeah, and she was just like intercepting. She gave him like that. She did like the Dr Shange like third eye opening and he was like whoa.
Speaker 1:That was almost like when Bucky got his arm taken off, just immediately deleted from the fight.
Speaker 2:Like he came over the top, but she hit him in the chest.
Speaker 1:That was a very mantis-esque, like you're done. And then she hit him like in the chest and he just like saw, collapsed, and then she got him in the forehead and he was like whoa, not the wall that I had to look at when my father used to beat me and my mom and my mom, what did you do? What did you do? I had to. No, you didn't. All right, guys, we gotta go. We gotta go, man, we gotta go man.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll do a Jeffrey Wright episode. We did one this week. No, no, no, no. Like I talked about what if no, we're just gonna talk about Jeffrey Wright.
Speaker 2:Let's go Like the life, the life of Jeffrey Wright. No, he's not dead, he's awesome. I know, I'm just saying like his movies are just him, the person.
Speaker 1:It would be funnier if it was just him as a person. Jeffrey Wright was born. It's a biography episode.
Speaker 2:It's a Jeffrey Wright. This is biography.
Speaker 1:But he's gotta also narrate it for himself.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about Jeffrey Wright next week with the last one.
Speaker 1:Oh, we are gonna talk about Jeffrey Wright. Yes, All right yes. Oh man, I love Jeffrey Wright. Well, we'll see you next week. How did this turn into a Jeffrey Wright episode?
Speaker 2:I don't know, look inside your buns. But this, what the hell is this?
Speaker 1:All right speaking. What did he say? What I would give to experience episode eight of what if season one?
Speaker 2:one more time for the first time, oh man, all right, guys, we'll see you next week. Goodbye, peace.