The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
134 - Revisiting The Genesis of Marvel on Disney Plus: WandaVision
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What if initial skepticism could transform into excitement for a new Marvel series? Join us as we reminisce about our journey from doubting "Agatha All Along" to eagerly awaiting its premiere. We draw comparisons to our experiences with "Loki" and "WandaVision," and revisit the latter to celebrate its innovative storytelling and emotional depth. We offer a comprehensive analysis of the series, highlighting significant scenes, character development, and fan theories. From Wanda's transformation into the Scarlet Witch to the philosophical debate between Vision and White Vision, we cover it all. We wrap up with reflections on the series' emotional impact and the exciting setups for future Marvel narratives. Tune in for an episode filled with insights, tributes, and thoughtful commentary on the ever-expanding Marvel Universe.
We celebrate the vision of director Matt Shakman and the commanding presences of Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Bettany, Kathryn Hahn and many others. Before that we celebrate the lives of and mourn the losses of comic book artist John Cassady and screen legend James Earl Jones. We then talk some news roundup before talking about WandaVision Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:37 Comic Book Artist John Cassady Dies at 52
05:20 Acting Icon James Earl Jones Dies at 93
08:47 Destin Daniel Cretin To Direct The MCU Spider-Man 4
13:35 Final Venom Trailer. KNULL ARRIVES
18:55 Josh Brolin & Matthew McConaughey Withdraw From Lanterns
20:35 TV Retrospective: WandaVision – The Inception & Background
26:00 WandaVision Plot Breakdown And Review
01:12:51 WandaVision Project Infinite Awards
01:22:49 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: Celebrating Marvel vs Capcom with a Marvel vs DC Episode!
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It's the.
Speaker 2:Infinite Podcast. Go tell your friends. It's the Infinite Podcast. My God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Robin Kork the Cube.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom For movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We got you covered. I'm Rob. I'm here with Court Court. We are a week away from the premiere of Agatha All Along, which is a show that, as time goes on, I've found myself getting increasingly more excited for yeah, and I mean, at the beginning, beginning I wasn't really.
Speaker 1:It's not that I wasn't looking forward to the show, I just you know, me and a bunch of other people kind of it's funny. It was the same concept I had for loki. I added a little bit for wandavision of the why, you know where's the big hitters, where's the heavy hitters and you know. Let the project speak for itself. And I think this project did great with that through the trailers. I think the first trailer I kind of looked, I was like huh.
Speaker 2:And then the second trailer I was like, okay, you know, first you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention yeah, so we're gonna obviously preview that by talking about a show that we did not get a chance to talk about when we launched this podcast, and that is wandavision. Um, I had not gone back to it since it aired, so this was a pleasure of a rewatch for me. Yeah, it was. It reminded me of a lot of things and it reminded me, like you know, being able to take myself out of the, like the WandaVision hysteria which we have to talk about as part of the show, just kind of being able to sit down with it and, like, know what's happening and then just watch all nine episodes like in a row and not have to wait for a week to week. It was, it was a really great rewatch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I was pleasantly surprised of how innovative this show is, and you know, as innovative as it is it's. This show isn't overtly complicated as well, too. This is a fun watch. It's something that you know outside, looking in from the rest of the MCU. Post-endgame this is, you know, in the upper echelon of you know, innovative nature and having fun of what you're doing, but also, you know, having a lot of heart. I think this show has some of the best emotional moments in the entire MCU. There's a couple moments in here that are must-talk-about moments and a compelling villain, a reveal villain that was pretty solid and again, the reveal of the villain is much better without the hysteria of 2020, watching this show yeah, 100 and um.
Speaker 2:So we're going to talk about wanda vision, but first we do have some news up top. Unfortunately, we have a pair of passings that we have to discuss. Um, john cassidy so an x-men, mostly an x-men uh, comic book artist, well-known comic book artist, passed away at 52 over there over the past of this week. Um, you know, these types of things kind of tend to kind of just fly under the radar, but I think it's important for us to talk about because you know, comics is mostly a visual medium, so you don't, you don't get, you know everything that we get from comics without the artists and john cassidy's art, um, especially on his Astonishing X-Men stuff and his Captain America stuff are, you know, legendary I mean legendary, is the perfect way to sum it up.
Speaker 1:I mean that X-Men run that he was working on was, I just mean, nothing short of phenomenal. I mean it was somehow this almost photorealistic, but also it was so polished, it was so refined, which I really enjoyed. It just brought an extra level of gravitas to the X-Men too. And I mean at a time where the X-Men kind of needed, like a, a hard stop, not reboot, but a hard stop Like this is post new X-Men, you know new writer, new new writer, new artist on the on the book.
Speaker 1:And I remember I don't remember because I was, I think I was seven when those books were coming out, but you know, just from reading about stories and listening to stories about it, those books were, you know, quote unquote delayed for a little bit, but you know that's if that's what we got out of the late, delayed as long as you need to, because that is one of the most memorable I I I told you when I reread the astonishing x-men I was like this art is just otherworldly great. Maybe one day we'll talk about that astonishing x-men run because it is one of it's some of the best x-men you can find. That doesn't come without john cassidy yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, like I said, it kind of gets lost in translation of how important the artist is to the comic book world. You know comic books as a medium in general are kind of have been on the call and obviously since the advent of, you know, pop, tv and movies and all that stuff and people have kind of moved away with them. We talked about in the past how comics are, you know, increasingly more inaccessible and difficult to get a hold of. But you know, I would, you know, encourage anyone to go. You know, to get a hold of, yeah, you know I would, you know, encourage anyone to go. You know I think that's awesome. You know we talked about before on the show, like how to, how do I get into comics? Sometimes the art is the way to get into them. Like, you know, if you, if you find something that catches your eye, you find out who the artist is and kind of follow their, their path, you know, instead of, instead of doing you know a character or or a team or a storyline, like sometimes all you need is to get ahold of an artist, right, and if you enjoy their work, that's also kind of a um, a through line that you can use to get into any type of comic. So definitely encourage people to go out and try and get ahold of those astonishing X-Men comics, Um, because yeah, I mean the art is is sensational.
Speaker 2:Um, and then we lost a true titan of the acting world. You know, kind of crazy that we were talking last week so much about Darth Vader and then you know, lo and behold, james Earl Jones passes away at the age of 93. Egot winner, just incredible performer on the stage, on the screen, tv movies, stage, acting, acting, you name it. Um, james old jones has done it and done it at the utmost highest level. Obviously, um has, you know, some of his most well-known work, obviously, the voice of darth vader in the star wars films, mufasa and the lion king, both in the animated uh movie and the live quote-unquote live action, the cgi uh remake. He, he came back as Mufasa. The Sandlot fences obviously is what he got his Tony Awards for on the stage and you know, just an absolute. You know, like I said, a titan of acting.
Speaker 1:I mean he's one of the pillars of you know that Hollywood stands upon from an acting lens. I mean, imagine your voice alone can carry throughout generations. I mean that is just, that's astronomical what he was able to achieve, and I mean, from all accounts, to just a wonderful person on top of that. And that's something we always like to say. You know. You know, when any, anytime, anybody passes away, just you know, we always love to look at their character and use the accounts of you know what people said.
Speaker 1:I mean, they were at the premiere for, I believe, for Coppola's new movie yesterday or two days ago, and Giancarlo Esposito was talking about how much of not only a friend but a mentor he was to him and so many other people. So to lose somebody like that, I mean that's a world shocker, like that was just anybody and everybody was saying like, oh my God, like Darth Vader or Mufasa just passed away, and like for you to be so synonymous with, I mean absolutely monumentous characters like that, it's just absolutely monumentous characters like that, it's just, it's something that's incredible. So, james Earl Jones, in terms of you know the legacy he's left. He will always be remembered, I don't care if it's 10, 50, or 100 years from now. James Earl Jones will forever be remembered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean just you know. You could just go on his you know Wikipedia, imdb and just look at all the stuff he's been in Coming to you know wikipedia, imdb and just look at all the stuff he's been in um, coming to america, field of dreams, sandlot, like I said he was, he's really came into his own in in that, you know, late 70s through through the 90s is kind of like his, his peak um, you know, as a performer, where he became really synonymous with a lot of things. And yeah, like you said, he just had he had one of those voices, like I said. You know I I posted the the Lion King clip on my Instagram.
Speaker 2:I said his voice was like the embodiment of poetry. Whenever he spoke, you felt every single word, yes, whether it was as Vader, mufasa, and he also had a commanding presence physically as a person in the movies that he was on screen for, just this incredible booming voice that just exuded wisdom. He just felt it. Every time he spoke You're just like, wow, this guy has such a commanding presence of the screen. I was pleasantly surprised that he came back as Vader for Rogue One and he delivered some incredible lines in rogue one as well.
Speaker 1:Be careful not to choke on your aspirations general yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 2:So obviously, you know, 93 years, um, that's about as long a life as you could ask for. Um accomplished so, so much in his career and he will be dearly, dearly missed, um. So, yeah, I mean, we have to talk about that stuff up top. So, moving on to some other news, starting with some Spider-Man news, that was kind of surprising. So we got a. We knew that John Watts was not going to be directing any further Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. He was kind of, you know, moving on, which, I understand you did a trilogy, keep it moving, you know. But Destin Daniel Cretton, who has been, who was tied to Avengers, kang Dynasty before it was reworked, will be directing this Tom Holland Spider-Man 4 film, which I think is great. You and I talk you know at length about Shang-Chi.
Speaker 2:It's one of our first episodes, yeah, and how much we enjoy that movie. Especially the action sequences are spectacular. We still don't know what this Spider-Man 4 movie is going to be. There seems to be a clash of ideas between Marvel and Sony.
Speaker 1:This is how I think they're thinking about it. I think Marvel's tea was get Daredevil born again done and then kind of combo it how they were doing with, you know, with Captain America 2, where it's more you know for Captain America would be more world level, but it will still be kind of gritty and grounded. I think they wanted that same approach for Spider man, so him and Daredevil would kind of be like him and Sam and him and Natasha in that movie and you street level it. You have Fisk be the main villain and then you throw another Spider man specific villain in there and you can kind of have. You could have some fun with that. And again the whole.
Speaker 1:We talked about it when we talked about no way home. No way home is its only trilogy, it's. It's a trilogy origin story wrapped in one, which is insane. So if you're kind of going to take that approach I think that's marvel's side, I think sony side was you just saw the billion dollars that we just made from no Way Home, let's do that. Why don't we just do that again?
Speaker 1:And storytelling purposes. You're like, didn't you just do all that work to make sure you got them away, to make sure Tom gets his origin so he can be where they were when they started. So I'm not naive to not understand the capitalistic nature of wanting to make money. And again, if you put Andrew and Toby in a movie with him, again it's going to make money and also to lend to that fact. It's going to be in the secret war era that this movie would come out. So it's kind of credible that you know it would make sense for them to do something like this. I just I don't know if you can pull that string again narratively and people be in it, be so bulletproof as no way home was. I don't know if you can do the same trick twice.
Speaker 2:Yep, I would agree with that. But I think, you know we're going to talk about the venom trailer in a second, and I think it's it's possible that that the Spider-Man four ends up being a cosmic kind of deal, because we're going to talk about the venom trailer in a second. But, um, at the same time though, like you know, I think destin daniel cretin did a great job of balancing the the grounded with the surreal in shang chi um, obviously the first. You know, first three quarters, two thirds of that movie are very grounded and kind of touched in reality, um, and then it obviously explodes into, you know, the sequence at the end of the movie, which is you. I think it holds up for the most part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we talk about how forgiving that is, as like the big CGI third act, and it's just because how tight the action was and how good you know Simu Liu and Tony Luang are together on screen, how good they were together. I think it's an interesting idea. I mean we just said that and we didn't even talk about daniel destin cretin himself. Like there's a reason they picked him. And I mean the thing I think about is how much did they want him for kang dynasty?
Speaker 1:At the point, like it was to the point where it felt like he was going to get kang dynasty and secret ward, we were like, if he's pulling that action and they're pulling loveness to write on top of that too, like we might be in for like a full, like for a treat on battle world, like this might be great. So I can see why they were like circled his name. They were like we need to get him somewhere. We, if it can't be for kang dynasty, let's at least make sure that he's there for, uh, let's just at least make sure he's there for something. And spider-man is, I mean, what a great pick. Yeah, now here's the fear that I have shang chi 2 will never happen it definitely doesn't feel like it.
Speaker 2:Um, if this is, you know, I mean, you know they're working on a weird timeline, like they could announce this and then it's not going to come out for five years, so who knows? Um, but yeah, that was definitely like one of the red flags to me is like, oh, what does this mean for for shang chi too? Like I just feel, like you know, and it reminded me watching a wanda vision, like you know, I wish they didn't spend so much. I mean, I understand the logistics of it, but like, spending so much time between when we're seeing these characters is just a killer. Yeah, and you know, like I said, wandavision is a perfect example of that.
Speaker 2:Like it felt like there was some momentum here when the show ended and then, you know, this is the first you know speaking for, you know, speaking of agatha all along. This is the first time we're seeing agatha harkness in five years, like four or five years, which is crazy, right? Um, so, yeah, I mean, I totally agree with that. Um, I guess that's a perfect segue into this. This venom trailer, yeah, um, touted as the final venom trailer. Uh, for this, for this third movie, and uh, they're doing, they're doing it.
Speaker 1:They're doing it. They actually listened to the. He wasn't in the movie and then, obviously, as so many people do, they listen to this pod right here we kept calling them cowards. Yeah, we kept. We said put no in the movie, cowards. And then they said bet. And then guess what noel's in the movie? Uh, do we know who's playing noel? There's rumors.
Speaker 2:There's rumors that it's norman reedus um awesome, which I think is cool um I, I don't, I don't think that was like confirmed. Confirmed like I don't think any official outlets have confirmed it, but I guess people just picked up on that that Norman Reedus will be voicing Null. I don't think he's going to be the villain villain, which kind of goes back to my Spider-Man 4 point that I think they're going to try and take a swing at doing Spider-Man 4 as Spider-Man and Venom teaming up.
Speaker 1:And they're going to do the Venom War on top of that. Yeah, that would be a swing, that would be a monumental swing, and I mean what you can try to do in the meantime is make sure all your defenders are in place so you have Daredevil Luke Cage around, because I know Jessica Jones and Punisher are going to be there.
Speaker 2:Last thing I saw about that was they want them all back.
Speaker 1:Right, and I mean, what better avenue to get Iron Fist back than in Shang-Chi 2? Obviously, you're going to put Jessica Jones. Punisher are going to be in Daredevil, and then I don't know where Luke Cage fits into any of this.
Speaker 2:They probably just erase season two and just make him Luke Cage again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make him Luke Cage, just a guy in New York. Maybe you don't even have to erase anything from Luke Cage, but just have him be like. That was a dumb decision.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I retweeted it on Twitter and I said you know, I love this stupid, dumb trilogy.
Speaker 1:It's just because they know exactly what they're doing. And I think the first one they were like they were finding it, and then the second one was like oh yeah, we know who we are Like, we know what we're doing, we're not, we're not. We understand that this is kind of dumb, but we're going to have some fun.
Speaker 2:And then this one. They were just like yeah, it's exactly what we said. Like, if you're going to keep making these increasingly ridiculous, just put Noel in it. And they're like all right, we're gonna do it. Insane swing, yeah. So uh, I, you know that's kind of exciting, you know? Are we? Are we being baited into the idea that no will probably be like at the end of the movie and like, or maybe even like in a post-credit scene, probably like? I think that's entirely possible, but, um, you know, venom does talk about it in the trailer that that my creator is coming for us. So maybe no will be a bigger part of the movie, but I don't think he'll be like dealt with by the end of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I mean for that I'm just trying to think who else you get, unless for this multiversal thing you're going to pull, you're going to. You know what they can do. If I don't want this Like, if I want to just be mix two, like you can mix a Spider-Man and a Daredevil story, like you do. You do Devil's Reign and you mix it with. What can you mix it with for Spider-Man? I mean, you can kind of have Devil's Reign but remix it as Spider-Man, as the main character, with Daredevil you know what I mean and that just be Spider-Man 4. It'll help you for Daredevil Born again. It'll help spider-man's case in the mcu and then worry about the multiverse stuff when you get to secret wars and you get to um, to doomsday. Like, don't worry about that right now.
Speaker 1:What I think they're gonna do is they're gonna do if they want to make this money, you're gonna do, you're gonna do spider-verse in the fourth one and you're gonna, instead of it, be like the avengers and all the teams fighting Noel. You're going to do Spider-Verse and you're going to mix Venom War and Spider-Verse into one story. That's what you could do for a fourth movie. That gets you Tom. I mean, that gets you Tom, Andrew and Toby back together. That gets you. What you can do is you can supersede a live-action Miles Morales and put him in the movie but still have that be a different dimension version. So by the time that actor gets into the MCU he can just have a fresh start once he gets into the MCU.
Speaker 2:And it gives you the Spider-Man Venom stuff which I think people have been clamoring for for the last four years. Yep gets you a bunch of Spider-Man.
Speaker 1:It gets you different versions of all the Spider-Man, a couple of different versions of Venom. You can have fun with it. You them like. You can have fun with it. You have them fight noel. It's a big new york city thing that goes down in there. I just hope it's not too many cooks in the kitchen when they do something like.
Speaker 1:That's my fear of like yeah, because I know they would say yes, everybody would say yes, you like, I told, like, I said like oh, you know who would be great to be the live action miles morales? The kid from from um, from cobra kai, that plays kenny. I mean, he already has the fighting prowess for it. I feel like he would be. I think he's younger too. I think he's either like 17 or 18, something like that. Like he's perfect age range for it. Like that would be a good pick as well. So I don't know, I just I'm real hesitant on them on this, you know, of course, doing the same like you can have a really cool contained like spider-man and daredevil verse fisk type type movie. Throw a couple other, the defenders in there. Just, you know, have this be a spider-man story. Have a meet gwen, gwen, stacy. Have a meet harry, like have some fun, but does not seem like the route they want to go on sony's, and I have a feeling this is a sony thing, of course yeah, it's always.
Speaker 2:It's always going to be. And then the last bit of news we got we talked last week about some Green Lantern potential casting. We have now learned that both Josh Brolin and Matthew McConaughey have taken their names out of the running.
Speaker 1:I don't think Ewan McGregor is going to do it either.
Speaker 2:No, probably not.
Speaker 1:There's one person you give the call to, I think, and his name has been around Green Lantern for probably the last 15 years. It's Chris Pine. I mean, I feel like at this point in his career he's become so chiseled as an actor but he also knows how to have a lot of fun with whatever project. He's very adaptive to whatever the project commands. But he also I mean people forget Chris Pine was, I mean, one of the absolute top dogs in Hollywood for years, like when I was a kid, I mean after the Star Trek trilogy.
Speaker 1:Like he was like one of the mainstays, the Wonder Woman movies, like he was a must have in Hollywood. Like you get an older version, if you want to do that older version, why not get the guy that people were clamoring to play Hal Jordan in the first place? And then again you throw if who you really sold me on that John, john Boyega pick from last week to like Chris Pine and John Boyega is Hal and John who, and like a true detective setting and unraveling like a conspiracy, a most like not a universal conspiracy would be all types of sick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think I think Chris Pine, that's a great pick and I think he's at a point in his career where he would do it. I mean, he's doing, you know, he's just been doing things. He did that Dungeons Dragons movie. He's just been doing stuff. So I feel like he would throw his hat back into a DC thing. Obviously he was in Wonder Woman, but yeah, yeah, I think he could absolutely be hal jordan. I think that that totally works.
Speaker 1:Um, short of that, uh, let's talk about wanda vision yeah, uh, let's talk some some preliminaries and some, yeah, prerequisites yeah, some some, just some backstory on this show.
Speaker 2:So obviously this was the advent of disney, plus um one of the flagships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like it was, yeah, it was one of the advents of Marvel Studios being like, hey, we got Disney Plus coming and we're going to do basically Marvel shows like these eight episode miniseries based around these characters that you know and love, yada, yada. And I think you know they set a certain level of expectation. We, as fans, had certain levels of expectation that, oh, these are going to be monumental events, these can't-miss things. And then they shuffled some things around, obviously with the pandemic, so that WandaVision was going to be the first and it was always the one that people had the most skepticism and questions about, because it was that original core of Disney Plus announcements. Wandavision, falcon and the Winter Soldier, loki, hawkeye were all kind of Because, funny enough, avengers Endgame has that end sequence that basically sets up all these shows. They spend a lot of the last 20-25 minutes of the movie doing these isolated scenes with Hawkeye, with Bucky and Sam Sam getting the shield Right.
Speaker 1:Loki, earlier in the movie, gets the Tesseract.
Speaker 2:Yep and Abscond's. You're like, okay, that's like the setup for the Loki show. And then Wanda gets obviously her big, kind of big comeback right at the end of avengers endgame. That that sets all these shows up, right, um. And then so one division. They were like, okay, like it's gonna be like a sitcom homage. And we're like, okay, you're right, that's interesting. Yep, um, they bring on jack shaffer, who was working on black widow at the time, to be kind of like the showrunner slash, uh, one of the lead writers, right, uh, she has since moved on to be the the showrunner, uh, for agatha all along. So, so she's continued her work with marvel, um. And they bring on matt shackman. He directs all nine episodes of these, of this show, um, and he has since gone on to be the director of fantastic four. Um, and man, I watched this show again and I'm like that makes total sense.
Speaker 1:It's the mystique that's gone around the 2020 era when this show was coming out. Now that that mystique is gone, this is just a dang good show. It was such a fun, great, intricate rewatch that I had doing this too, and I found myself so glued to this as well, too. And again, just watching these one after another after another, I was like I'm seriously glued and intrigued to everything that's going on, and I mean Shackman's direction is so it's tight, especially and especially when you're going to go. I hate to use the word gimmick, but when you're going to go gimmick for doing the sitcom, you have to have it dialed like you, and you have to leave room for like that it doesn't feel like it's just the sitcoms that you're running through, like you have to still add the little disconnected universe sprinkle on top of it too, because if you don't, then you're gonna lose people of like the why, like, why am I here? And this show has such an ominous nature on top of it too.
Speaker 2:That's what really sells it right from the first episode the first episode does it and I, I think, you know, oh, it's camera moving.
Speaker 1:I have to talk about that. Continue.
Speaker 2:I gotta talk about that no, yeah, going back to all this stuff of like not knowing really what to expect or who to expect, you know, out of all the disney plus shows, I think the show does the best job of integrating like the known universe characters into it. Um, when you talk about Jimmy Woo and Darcy, I think out of every show that's tried to integrate like previous characters like this one felt the most well-integrated, where you're like oh yeah, it kind of makes sense that these two characters are there and would be kind of together, like that was always like kind of what I always wanted from these Disney Plus shows. Like if you're going to throw, you know, if you're going to throw X random character into the show, it should feel like a natural kind of meeting point of why is Jimmy Woo here? Oh well, he's an FBI agent investigating missing persons. They bring in Darcy for the astrophysics nature of it. You're like, yeah, this makes sense.
Speaker 1:So I thought it felt very comic book-y. Yes, when characters just show up and you're like, well, that makes sense, that this character, like this B or C character standing in front of me right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Instead of just like hey, here's this character. You know what I mean, I think. I think this show did probably the best job of it. Um, which was cool, and then We'll talk about it as we kind of go through the episodes. But, like man, just the groundswell of theorizing and analyzation that went into this show went to a level that I don't think even they expected. Guilty, Guilty.
Speaker 1:Guilty, guilty, guilty times a million Boy. I wish we would have had that podcast week in, week out watching this show, because, guilty on the Reed Richards, guilty on the Mephisto, every single I was in. I was locked in Week in, week out. But again, this show had power to it. This show had I mean, it's kind of an allegory for Wanda herself Like this show had some hidden power to it. Like week in, week out in the middle of the pandemic, like everybody was home. Like week out in the middle of the pandemic, like everybody was home. Like, oh boy, weekend everybody was glued, everybody had theories.
Speaker 2:Week like this show probably credits a lot of these breakdown channels for like millions of millions of subscribers and it goes, you know, kind of goes to the point of the writing, in the direction where, like even the first three episodes, which are like the sitcom episodes essentially, um, do these little things that kind of set you up for like what is going on here?
Speaker 1:yeah, because what's great is what jackman does is like he's. Let's just take the first episode, for example, because there's a little. There's a little switch. You have your 50s sitcom nature to it. It's going good, and then it's when vision's boss starts choking on his food, and then that's that camera switch, the lighting switches a little bit and you're like you. It's almost in a weird way, as if you feel like you're also there, like your sentience also kicked up, just as wand is kicked up for a second of like wait, something's, something's not right, like something overtly is not right. It's like I said, the ominous nature of this show is one of the biggest driving forces for it yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 2:I mean that's designed to be like the kind of plot point of the of the first episode that makes you think like something's wrong here. And it's when you know debbie joe rup's character is repeatedly going. You know she starts it's first. It starts on like a jovial, like joking, like stop it, stop it, you know. But then she gets increasingly more serious and then you know, with the hindsight of knowing what happens in the show, like you realize that she's saying stop it to wanda, right, because wanda has trapped all these people in this, in this, you know, in this place. So that's again. That's something like seeing that again.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't, obviously you wouldn't pick up on, you know, watching it the first time or not knowing. But like with the hindsight of like what unfolds, like you realize like the seeds were planted very early I mean I texted you. Like the second episode, when they do the magic show, like the episode is surrounded, you know, by a literal mystery box. It's like their big, their big final trick is a literal mystery box is like their big, their big final trick is a literal mystery box, right. So like the show, you know it puts it out there for you that, like you know, we want you to kind of speculate and obviously I mean I don't think they they expected that level. I mean the mephisto stuff I think made a lot of sense right. Um, and I think you know it's very easy to to pick, uh, catherine Han's character as kind of nefarious, like from the get-go Right.
Speaker 1:But not overtly the main villain of this. I think that's. I feel like that was probably their point of they wanted it to feel like there was something bigger at play. She was just a vessel for whatever the biggest, the biggest bad there was and the best part about this, the show and one of the best best themes is was there there's, wanda was the biggest bad out of everybody. That's there's. There is no villain to this show. Like, obviously, agatha has personal gain that she wants, but she, she even says in the last episode she's like I, I didn't, I'm not doing this to anybody, I just cut their strings like I, I didn't do this. You're doing this to them and if you're the hero, you say, let him go. You can let him go right now if you want to, but you're not, you're not gonna let him go. So because you're grieving, because you're grieving.
Speaker 2:That is the you know what. What is the central theme of this entire show is is what this is. This is a show about wanda processing her grief, um, which is you, you know, tonally like just not an insane swing to take for a Marvel property, but like this was one of the most introspective projects they've ever done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean this one really started my I said it the big theme of Phase 4, it was legacy and loss. So I mean you want to talk about a project that has both is, you know, is Black Panther, Wakanda, forever has both. It has legacy and loss. This project has loss, like that was the big piece of it and it's such a great way to follow up Endgame because it is Like we did lose all these characters and it's not like we lost, you know, some of the characters. Like we didn't lose Hawkeye, hulk, we didn't lose Thor, but it was like it's never gonna be there again.
Speaker 1:That's why it's so funny thinking about the end of Deadpool 3, like the, the sizzle reel from Fox looking outside in, like we're never gonna have that again because we might have something different, we might have something equally as cool who knows but we're never gonna have that again. You know what I mean like that, that nostalgic feel of like these are our Avengers. You know what I mean. We'll never have that. So it is a little bit of a loss that way. But there's legacy that comes with loss. It's like what's next and you know this project, like I said, this is based on loss, like you know how much loss can a person take before they take some control over it. And Wanda, unfortunately you know we talked about tragic characters in the MCU like her and Thor have seen the most loss out of anybody they have never. I mean, Wanda lost her parents, then she lost her brother, then she loses her sons and the love of her life and her country. On top of that, how much does she need to suffer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's the perfect throughline. I mean we can just kind of talk about the show, but I guess we could just blanket over the first three episodes just at in a bunch, um, because these are obviously the sitcom sitcom episodes which I mean just from a technical standpoint they nailed the aesthetic of all these eras of sitcoms. I mean, I think that kind of goes lost, you know, in the praise of this show is like they had to nail this right, like they had to nail this, like if they're gonna do the sitcom homage stuff, like they have to nail it, yep. And they had to nail this. Like if they're gonna do the sitcom homage stuff, like they have to nail it yep. And they did right, they did. Um, what's your favorite out of these three?
Speaker 1:I think it's the first one still first one's tight like as far as like as far as just like the sitcom elements itself.
Speaker 2:Um, you can tell elizabeth olsen is right at home doing this stuff. Yeah, with the sitcom stuff, like she crushes all of these first three episodes in playing those variety you know of, of type of kind of like the homage to like lucy and, and you know, bewitched like she's, she's nailing just the mannerisms and the everything and I'll double down on that point.
Speaker 1:And it's you know I'll spoil when we tell our our favorites of this whole season. I point, and it's you know I'll spoil when we tell our our favorites of this whole season. I mean, I think it's crazy. You know, and this is going to sound and send, the best performance in my opinion was Paul Bettany. I mean you want to talk about so quick, to like. I think his quickness to whatever and his quickness and his adaptive nature is great, and I nature is great and I mean, even when he finds out that this isn't real, his cell to love is still, is still there, it's still apparent. So I think he is absolutely phenomenal and, like I said, he's quick, his humor is quick oh, the yakety yak sequence still makes me laugh, right, because he just breaks it out right.
Speaker 1:This is great. He's somebody that that demands presence. I don't know if it's his voice, I don't know if it's his mannerisms, I don't know if it's his mannerisms, but he's just phenomenal. This whole series, the first three, I think it's when he's quite at his best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, it's brilliant, like you said, technically, how the show is set up. They used a real studio audience too for these first three episodes with the sitcom homages. Setting it, making it black and white obviously pays dividends. When they bleed the color into certain moments, which was also really great with the drone, and when what's her name, dottie? When she cuts her hand and the blood is in color. Great, it's all really great, the commercials.
Speaker 1:Oh, phenomenal. I guess I'll. I don't know if I want to talk because one of the new categories is favorite theory that surrounds the project, so maybe I don't know if you want to wait or talk about it now.
Speaker 2:We can talk about it now.
Speaker 1:We can talk about it now, okay, because my favorite theory because I was going to ask you when we do our categories, what's your favorite theory that came from the show. My favorite one, weirdly enough, is that the two characters from all the commercials were her actual parents. That's why they kept showing up in all of the commercials is because that's how she remembers them.
Speaker 2:I didn't even put that together. I commercials is because that's how she remembers them.
Speaker 1:I didn't even put that together, I was so focused on especially the woman that played that would have, if this theory was right, would have played her mother. There was just some eerie similarity to her that I couldn't, that.
Speaker 2:I just couldn't explain I was so focused on the, the branding right, and how it tethered to her grief again, like the first episode, has the, the stark industry's toaster right, which obviously those are the missiles that killed her family. The Strucker watches, which were obviously because she was you know, the Strucker watch, plus the Hydra soaked bath powder invokes her captivity in Hydra. There was the Lagos paper towels, which obviously is another source of her grief was the incident in Lagos in Civil War. Then there was the Yo Magic yogurt, which, as the show goes on, you realize that there's certain things starting to bleed into the stuff. The Yo Magic thing I took that as Agatha's mission Interesting. The first time we see her in the flashback she's siphoning the magic from the rest of these witches. That's interesting and then that's ultimately what she's trying to do with Wanda is siphon the chaos magic.
Speaker 1:I took it a little bit more. As for the yo magic stuff, I took it a little bit more as like the fact that she just thought that she just was like affected by the, by the mind stone Not that the fact that she actually was a witch so like the more that she went on throughout the season and like that bleeds right into seven and eight. Especially once you get eight you realize like no, no, you're actually a witch, you're not just like that's why pietro got like physical. You still got physical power, but you still would have been a witch without the telekinesis and the tele in the telepathy. You still would have been a witch on top of that yeah, and then the um, the nexus, anti-depressions, like that that might have been the best swing, the best retro.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it was a retroactive swing that they just incorporated. I don't know if they maybe feige knew all along that they were going to use anchor beings. I don't know. But you know they say I remember I text you immediately. I was like, did they just say the word anchor in there when they talked about it? You know it still lends to the fact that wanda could still be the anchor being for the 616 yeah, I and this show, just watching the show again, just reminded me like, just like.
Speaker 2:Obviously we talk about like loki, like being like a main character, but like this reminded me that like she's, she's the most you know dimensional character that they they still have right in their, in their chamber, like right, and she's got such a presence and such, just everything about her is so like magnetic, especially when she, at the end, when she comes into her own as the scarlet witch and she gets the outfit, you're like this is like, this is the, this is the main character. Like she's, she knows she's. She's everything that you can want in a main character for like a universe. Um, which kind of goes back to my point about like them spending so much time keeping these characters off the screen, which again, I understand logistically, but like man, if they could have struck while the iron was hot and kind of gotten multiverse of madness, like cooking, like right after this, well did you see what?
Speaker 1:did you see what the, the plot for multiverse of madness, was supposed to be, that it was supposed to be more of like a. You know wanda wasn't supposed to be so overtly a bad, a bad guy, but you know strange in her, would have been together in her grief and you know they would have fought nightmare in this movie. You know, with Scott Derrick's I mean, we talked about how we think that movie is underrated and the biggest sin on that movie is the multiversal like the, the multiversal MCU things or the the, the multiversal like MCM things, like the actual Sam bring me directed. You know, things in that movie we think are the best parts of that movie. But I would have still loved to see, especially there there's like a subtleness to the first doctor strange movie. I really appreciate there's there's.
Speaker 1:I don't know if hominess is the word I'm looking for, but there's something familiar about that first Doctor Strange movie. It's a little bit more intimate in my opinion. So I would have loved to see what Derrickson, in his own corner of horror which he's, which he's known for, get a swing with nightmare with Wanda from a little bit more of like a heroic perspective. That could have been influenced. I still would have liked to see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. And then obviously, like we talked about in these first three episodes, there's these these little things that let you know, obviously with with Mr Heart choking. The second episode has the beekeeper coming out of the manhole.
Speaker 1:It has the, it has the drone or it has the little little helicopter toy that's in color.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the drone and the uh, the voice on the radio, which we obviously find out is Jimmy Woo's character. When we do that perspective for episode four, um, but episode three is, or episode two is, the one with the beekeeper. When wanda, you see that she is in control of this, when, when she rewinds, you know the sequence to make it so that they don't go outside right and see the beekeeper and then episode three.
Speaker 1:I mean episode three is where it really starts to the wall comes down. That's my favorite of these three because it gets real ominous from episode three. It gets really weird, it gets really spooky. Yeah, her cutting through a wall, Yep, I mean it's just like the stork that's there and just keeps popping up. I mean the theories that were just running around that. Itself that episode did a really good job of cutting the music out at really good points to be like what the heck is going on.
Speaker 2:We get the twins, yep um showing up, we get, and then we get. Obviously we get monica properly introduces she's geraldine at the time. But wanda picks her out when geraldine says your brother was killed by ultron and you're like huh, what? You're like wait a second here. And then wanda does the same thing. She's like what did you say?
Speaker 1:and then I mean another bit. You get a, you get the vision jump scare where, yeah, dead vision shows up. You're like what? Then she, like she looks for a second and then vision starts to piece together. That something's not you know, something's not right and everybody's compelling parts of the inside and then everybody on planet earth was like, did my disney plus just freeze? Did this just restart? And then it's like no, like she just like rewrote that piece of the episode to get him happy again about just having twins.
Speaker 2:Not that something's, something is very, very off yep, and then monica gets blasted through the wall and you're like, oh, okay this is a marvel project, yeah yeah, but again like to my point about like this show, you know doing a great.
Speaker 2:The show also does a great job of introducing something new in the form of Monica Rambeau. I think the way she's introduced in the show and the way they weave in those Captain Marvel elements are not overdone and I think they're handled just right to the point where you're like there's more here with this character and we're going to explore that another time and again. Unfortunately, it just took way too long to see Monica again, to the point she shows up in the Marvels and I'm like cool, like thank you, like Monica's back, like awesome, this is like this is great, but like it had just been way too long. Yeah, like I wish. I wish we could have gotten Captain Marvel to a little bit sooner again.
Speaker 2:I mean, 2022 is when you we showed up that movie because we again, and then we go to episode four where we get the, you know, basically like the backdrop episode of like here's what's happening outside of Westview and it's like previously on the MCU. Yeah, I think the episode is literally called we Interrupt the Program Right, so like, and we get Monica returning from the snap and oh what an opening, what an opening.
Speaker 2:It's still the. It's the best iteration of of postnap returning trauma that I think the MCU's ever done Right Like no Way Home does it and it's not handled.
Speaker 1:Well, it's for comedic purposes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas, like this, you're like, and I think, setting it in a hospital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, yep, it's the best place to put it, because it's like what the heck is going on? Like, is this real? Like am I dreaming? Like is this a real thing? That's going on. And she's like asking people. He's like no, I got, I gotta call my wife. Do you have a phone? I gotta call my wife. Like, and then, because it's the craig mazen theory, when you have your character and you already kicked them down, push them down the stairs one last time just to really drive it home, because she comes back and everything's awry. And then she's just like okay, well, where's my mom? And you know, she finally finds the nurse that was taking care of her mom and she says your mom died three years ago.
Speaker 1:And she's just like no, no, no, I was just in there. And she's like no, you've been gone for five years, like your mom died three years ago.
Speaker 2:And it's that through line that you know that WandaVision had that no Way Home had that, black Widow had with Yelena, like they did not think they were gone long, right, Like I think even Spider-Man says that he felt like he was gone for like 20 minutes or whatever he says in Endgame, like that's how you like that puts the snap in perspective, like that little line where Monica's like no, I just nodded out for like 20 minutes. Like no, no, no, five years like black widow, does a really nice job of it with yelena.
Speaker 2:Like they do the, they do it really quick when she gets snapped in the bathroom and then immediately returns oh, and hawkeye right, yep oh yeah, yeah, I don't know why, I thought it was in black widow, but, um, they show that and you're like jesus christ, like and this does a really nice job of it um, with monica, and it's really, really like that, like you said, it's like that double gut punch. Like you know, she, she got snapped, lost five years of her life and then she finds out her mom died on top of it, right, um, it's, it's crazy. And then she shows up at the sword base. We're introduced to tyler hayward. Um, just a proper jerk, yeah, just a proper government overreach asshole. That's the worst that this show needed, right, um, especially when you get to like the Vision kind of plot point.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny? I think that his character is supposed to serve purpose more for Vision than Wanda. It's humanity. Look how much this android has more humanity than this actual human being has. This lack of humanity.
Speaker 2:And it ties back to a bunch of Age of Ultron stuff as it relates to Vision, some of the Civil War stuff with him, where he's kind of just, he's kind of except for wanda like even the avengers and even tony kind of just saw him as a weapon. Yep, like when he blasts uh, you know, when he accidentally blasts roads out of the sky in civil war tony's like what, like what was that? Like I didn't think you could. When vision goes, I got distracted. Tony goes, I didn't think you could get distracted. Like what would you be? Like what do you mean? So I think you know wanda was really the only. It's. Their relationship is amazing because, like they, really, even though she was human, he was an android, they both saw each other as human right and didn't see each other as monsters.
Speaker 1:They didn't see each other and that's the piece. Yeah, yeah, it's that. They did not see each other as who, who man made them to be.
Speaker 1:They did not see each other as that and I think hayward is just a great through line of that where you know we get later on and I think it's episode even his acting, I think, is purposely kind of robotic, like it's almost purposely like very like you know, I will like, I will make sure that we get the vision so I can get credit for this, because this is what my programming is in my head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we're. You know, he sends her on this missing persons case to Westview. We're introduced to Jimmy Woo again, which I said was great. He's excellently deployed in the show. Darcy comes back into the fold and I'm just like this is perfect as far as tonally bringing characters in that we've seen before.
Speaker 1:Well, it's your B-plot. Your B-plot is fun because you have Monica, jimmy and Darcy all together kind of trying to unravel the mystery of what is Westview. And then it's three great fronts, because it's a person who's coming into their own as their hero themselves. It's a scientific view, and then it's a scientific view and then it's like a you know like a protection view from like a, like a you know from an officer standpoint yep um, darcy figures it out.
Speaker 2:She figures out that that the sitcom is happening inside of westview. Monica goes in and then we get caught up to speed.
Speaker 1:She's thrown through the wall and also it does a good job of slowly bringing about what the scarlet witch is. And like how powerful and that's a big part of the show is like, how, like, how powerful, because they all keep saying it. Like, because I don't know, I don't know if somebody did like an Avengers breakdown, like maybe the Avengers released a video in like 2018, like this is the.
Speaker 1:This is your squad like it's like a pre-NFL team, like first look at the team for this season, like because apparently everybody knows, like they know their power levels, they know what they get to.
Speaker 2:One of them says Jimmy or Darcy says, Scarlet Witch almost killed Thanos by herself.
Speaker 1:I'm like, how do you know that I'm telling you Until Captain Marvel showed up.
Speaker 2:I'm like what was this broadcast on Fox?
Speaker 1:It might have been, who knows?
Speaker 2:Was Joe Buck and Troy Aikman calling the action?
Speaker 1:We had an NBC night game of the Battle of New York. I don't know what was going on. How does everyone know what?
Speaker 2:happened in that final battle. But yeah, and originally they think that Wanda's kind of, you know, being victimized by some nefarious force.
Speaker 1:Because why would an Avenger do any of this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, episode 4, I think Episode 4, as far as those episodes, those episodes that bring the action to a screeching halt to show the other side, I think this does it the best and it doesn't feel as intrusive as some other shows.
Speaker 1:It's almost like the 9-episode structure helped it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then that paves the way, basically, for episode five. You know the twins are born, get to the 80s.
Speaker 2:We get a lot more. I think this is I think I wrote it in my notes we get this is the first time we see Agatha or Agnes in the main credits, quote unquote, of the show. She's imposing her will a little bit more, which, again, I didn't catch that on the first rewatch. But knowing what happens makes sense. We get to like episode five and all of a sudden this guest character of the sitcom has now made her way into the main credits. Like that, that's red flag. Like that that should show you something like why is she important, right? All of a sudden, in this lens that supposedly Wanda's in control of, we get the dog. The dog shows up. We get Vision getting an email from Darcy saying about the Maximov anomaly and he's like what is that?
Speaker 1:That's when he unlocks Norm for like two seconds and he's like ah, yeah, he's like help please, anything, help me, she's the worst. She's the worst, anything, help me. She's the worst. She stinks, she's hurting everybody.
Speaker 2:Alright, turn it off, I'll help you, but relax and then we get they send the drone in dun dun, dun. And then Hayward and his like they got Wanda because they send in basically an 80s version, an 80s drone, because they figure out that the hex Excuse me, the hex changes anything that goes through it to match the era that Wanda's creating. So they figure out, if we send in an 80s drone, she won't catch it, basically Because it's like a blind spot. We send in an 80s drone, it belongs there. She sees it. It's like a blind spot. We send an 80s drone, it belongs there. She sees it, it's off-screen, quote-unquote off-screen. And then Hayward does his best corch fire. Monica's like huh, you arm that thing with actual missiles. And he's like we gotta take her out. She sucks.
Speaker 1:And this is where Shackman's direction is so insane, because it's like like just the perspective shots that you're getting, you see, and it's, it's how quickly it weaves in between the actual sitcom and actual, you know, warped reality is just, it's impeccable, yeah, fire fire.
Speaker 2:Um, the fire happens off screen and then we get breach anomaly. You're like, oh no, um, pave way to one of the most she's her scenes. The drone comes flying through the force field, wanda's in her scarlet witch well, her original scarlet witch get up the red trench coat. The sokovian accent comes back, which I think is a brilliant. I don't know if it's a directing choice or if it's a elizabeth olsen choice no, it has to be a.
Speaker 1:This had to have been pre-planned, and the only reason I said that is because, uh, talk about it, cause Agatha, episode eight is brilliant, but Agatha talks about it, episode eight. It's like oh, there's the accent again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it comes and goes. I think. I think a Quicksilver confronts her on it too when she goes. What happened to your accent final warning?
Speaker 2:and you're like, oh shit yeah, like is she the villain or is she being made to be the villain? It's like you know the question you have to ask yourself, right. And she's because she says like he's like you're holding a whole town hostage. She's like I'm not the one with the guns director, like I'm just trying, leave me, leave me alone, right. Hayward's like I can't, I can't do that. Monica's like I. And she says to wanda like if you wanted to hurt me, you would have, you would have. And Wanda's like shut up, yeah, we're not friends, let's not do this, be quiet. She turns all the guns on Hayward and then she just goes back into Westview and Vision's like what is going on? And Wanda's like none of your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, none of your business, Roll the credits. We're you're not gonna think about this. But it's like no, you can't control me, I'm gonna think about this. And then she goes, can't I? And you're like, oh yeah, rewind a little bit in the episode. You know vision has been at the office and the boys. You know it's and dude. You know what's incredible at the show? It's reflecting how the world started to change through sitcoms. So like what you know was allowed in sitcoms as well, like family drama like that was not in sitcoms before.
Speaker 1:And then as it starts to unravel and unravel, once you get to the Malcolm in the middle and the modern family inspired sitcoms, it's like family drama was one of the pillars for why these shows were working so much.
Speaker 2:And I love you know. Going back to like Vision's workplace, like I love, even like that first episode Vision's, like what do we do here?
Speaker 1:And they're like we just do numbers. And he's like what do you mean? Yeah, we do we. Yeah, we crunch the numbers, and you know we do. But crunch the numbers for what?
Speaker 2:And he's like you know yeah the numbers, yeah For stuff, for Wanda's reach, even though she's immensely powerful, only goes so far to like the people on the outskirts of town are just like droning away.
Speaker 1:They're like zombies, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're like, oh, that's not, that's not good, right, um. But yeah, you get this great confrontation between Vision and Wanda, great, acting on both sides, right, just water down, um, and he goes. You know what is outside Like? And he goes, you know what is outside like? And he says like I'm scared, like I can't remember my life before Westview, and I'm scared, and she's like shut up yeah, roll the credits.
Speaker 1:We're on to the next.
Speaker 2:We have Malcolm in the Metal next week relax and he basically you know they're both raring up, like rocking up. You think you're gonna get like a proper, proper fight here. Then there's a knock on the door, the doorbell, and Wanda's like I didn't do that and Vision's like sure you didn't. And Wanda's like whatever you don't believe me, it's fine. She opens the door and it's Quicksilver. It's.
Speaker 1:Evan Peters, what, what.
Speaker 2:What, what Big cheers it, what Big cheers.
Speaker 1:It's Uncle Jesse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love a lot of things about the show. I still don't like the Quicksilver Bane switch, making him like a loser.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, you should have just done it, you should have just had him be, and what it would have also done is help this whole ramp into the multiverse too. If it was that Quicksilver from like, if she was so powerful where she got the consciousness from another universe's Quicksilver, or the body of another yeah, and you could have done that, and then you could have just had it be.
Speaker 2:Agatha got her hooks in him Right and just had him still be Quicksilver, but like Agatha got, instead of you know, instead of passing it off as like a joke Mm-hmm, like I still don't that's still one of my least favorite parts about it I think you could have just made him Quicksilver Right and still done all the same stuff, but just made him Quicksilver and made him you know. He got there and then Agatha got her hooks in him and manipulated him.
Speaker 1:Right, you could have just done that. And again to my point, like show how powerful she is, that she was able to get into the multiverse to pull another version of Accidentally. Accidentally pull the Fox version of quicksilver over.
Speaker 2:That's how powerful and how how rain because that's like the through line too is like she kind of accidentally did all this and then harnessed it right, like you see, the, the episode 8 explosion of, of her grief when she arrives at the, at the plot that creates this. But then she, she harnessed it. So you could have done the same thing with quicksilver. Like she, she wanted to bring pietro back, but she kind of messed up and brought this other version in, and then Agatha harnessed that, you know, and took him. So, yeah, then we get to the Halloween episode, which again a great moment here, when Vision gets out of the hex, which you're like wow.
Speaker 1:It's such a great contrast too to her coming out of the hex, like you. Again it keeps going like we see who's in control the more and more it goes on like she has full out power, full out control. And again, what the reveal is so great for is like, yes, agatha is a villain, but there is no discernible villain here. But again, it's perspective based, like you know to from from the story that we're watching and the sitcom that we're watching. But again it's perspective based, like you know. So from from the story that we're watching and the sitcom that we're watching, you know it's the big reveal that agnes to agatha is the villain, but from every single other person in westview's perspective, wanda's the villain of this. She's holding everybody hostage and again it's a great point like this isn't what avengers do.
Speaker 2:Like I thought you were an avenger and then the vision comes out of the freaking hex and he's like you gotta help the people, right, like they're, they're in danger or whatever. And you know, from hayward's perspective, he's like see, right, told you like she's the bad guy. But then you know, you, the back end of the show is finding out what hayward's role in all this is, and his role in all this is creating a new vision. Right, you know that's all he he basically needed, cause you think you think the, the conceit is Wanda took visions body into the hex and brought him back to life. Right, you find out that's not what happened. You find out she literally recreated him with her magic, um, which, again, and Hayward had the vision the whole time.
Speaker 2:Insane power, yeah, that she just built him, um, but you find out that hayward and sword have had the vision this entire time. Right, um, he just needed her magic, or remnants of her magic, to bring him back. Right, because she created the vision inside westview with the remnants of the Mind Stone's power that was inside of her. That's how she created him. So SWORD needed remnants of her magic to reanimate their vision, which they do with the drone. Her magic is on the drone and Hayward's like we got him.
Speaker 1:Right got him Six, and seven we can bottleneck into one. It's Malcolm in the middle in the modern family inspired one she, um, she expands the hex to save the vision.
Speaker 2:Yep, um, I did like the little little bit where she turns the sword people into clowns, yeah, like, how, like, that's like the meta version of how she views them, right, like, turns them into a circus, essentially, which was, which was fun, um, and you just realize how powerful she is. She's Like she just at will just expands this thing. You know what I mean? Right, and you get the, you get the vision, obviously, getting to the outskirts of town. You get her, you get him encountering Agatha out there, and you're like, hmm, she's not, she's playing detached, but you can tell she's not actually detached, right? So then again, you, you're, and she's dressed as a witch, right, um, and then, yeah, we get the, the modern family episode, which is again.
Speaker 1:Do you want to talk about the aerospace engineer?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, oh, my god, and again, like I you know, upon re-watching this, like they do kind of hang on it to make you think that it's going to be something significant, right, and it's just her friend yeah, just as in the military, that gets her a vehicle, but it is the inception of Photon Spectrum, whatever you want to call her in the MCU.
Speaker 1:She finally gets her. She goes out of the Hex, which kind of unlocks the potential to get the power, and then, once she Well, rewrites her DNA, right, and Is that how this works? I mean, her DNA was altered Right, same thing as Ms Marvel, same thing. It's just you needed a power source to unlock the DNA. So the Hex did it to her, the Bangle did it to Kamala, and I mean that's a good piece of what. And the which stone was it? It was the Tesseract. So the Space Stone did it to Carol. So that's why the three of them Infinity stones in a weird way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she goes in. You see the spectrum powers kind of activate Yep, she gets back inside the hex. She's seeing everything on the spectrum, light spectrum, yeah, on the light spectrum. And then she's kind of like Whoa, that was weird. And then, yeah, she confronts Wanda again. Wanda's like get lost, get lost. Like I don't want to hurt you, but I will will. Um agatha's, you know watching the kids right, um, and you just they get inside her house and billy, who's a telepath, says to agatha like it's quiet here. Yeah, yep, I can't hear.
Speaker 1:I can't hear any, because he can hear voice, he's hearing voices.
Speaker 2:He's got professor x syndrome this entire time. That's how he hears. He hears vision dying outside the hex um, and he goes. It's quiet here. He's like. I like it here because it's quiet and he goes, you're quiet, agnes, and you're like hmm, what does?
Speaker 1:that mean right. What do you mean right? I mean, you know, at the time he's just like I gotta go fast, gotta go fast um, and then agnes.
Speaker 2:She steps in when monica confronts wanda. Um, because agatha is threatened by monica's presence there. Um, she's like you've had enough, because she's a variable that she was not equating for. You come back in and she sits Wanda down and she's like, where are my kids? And she's like, oh, they're just in the basement playing, relax, trapped. Trapped in a hex in a bunch of runes and she's like I'm Agatha Harkness, I'm Agatha Harkness, I'm going to give the Harkness from the. Marvel comics Cue the song Yep, which is it's still good.
Speaker 1:I mean, it won an Emmy, Of course it's incredible.
Speaker 2:It's still good. Catherine Hotton is sensational.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, she is one of the best things of this show.
Speaker 2:She's like, it's me. It was me all along.
Speaker 1:She killed the dog, and I killed Sparky too. She's got a great cackle. Oh the witch laugh.
Speaker 2:It's peak. She has a tremendous cackle. And then we get the Agatha backstory. She was going to be burned by other witches, or she was going to have her magic drained by other witches. And then Agatha's like uno. Reverse card.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I'm draining your magic now. Well, that's her thing.
Speaker 2:That I'm draining your magic now, Well, that's her thing, that's her like. That's her thing as a witch is that she steals the magic from the quote-unquote undeserving. And then she basically like we find out, like, what her mission is. And it's like her mission is basically like I want to know how you're so powerful, Right, Tell me, tell me, tell me how you did this. And Wanda's like I don't know. And Agatha's like well, Mind Palace, we're going into Professor X, Mind Palace, we're going down in your memories, Wanda, we're going to figure this out, Dang it. We go back to her childhood in Sokovia, when her parents were killed, Most notably her love for sitcoms yada y episode 8.
Speaker 1:That might be my favorite episode. That episode is really, really good.
Speaker 2:It's really good we finally get the origin story of, of, you know, of the Scarlet Witch, which is awesome yeah, we find out that her and Pietro were near a defective quote unquote missile for two days and Agatha's like two days, huh, I love how much.
Speaker 1:It's, not only how much agatha knows, I just love how, how, if this makes sense, not coy that she's being about. She's just like no, you, there's something to you. And wanda's like what are you talking about? I just, I just was a normal person and then they experimented on me and I got these powers. Like no, no, no, I've seen witches for for hundreds of years. You're a witch, witch, you're a witch. You always have been, you always will be.
Speaker 2:She's like that missile wasn't defective for two days. Right you cast the probability hex.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I love how she's breaking down Wanda's powers in magical terms. Right, you're not just a superhero.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You're a witch. Right, you're casting spells that I had to spend years learning. Right that I still have to do the verbal incantations to cast.
Speaker 1:Right, you have, and she says it at the end of episode eight. You have magic. She said magic on autopilot. That is power. That is just. That's otherworldly.
Speaker 2:Yep, we go back to the sword base, which is where we find out about the stuff about the vision that you find out that hayward was lying right. Wanda didn't steal the vision's body, she left it there. Yep, she was furious. Right, because who wouldn't be right? Um, because vision was cut up into little bits and hayward's. Like you can see him, but I can't let you take up and bury it, like you're not going to bury three billion dollars worth of vibranium in the ground, like I'm sorry, you're just not going to do that. Um, she drives to the westview lot that Vision had purchased for them. I don't know where Vision got the money from.
Speaker 1:From Tony, from his dad oh, vision's a trust fund, baby he is, oh no.
Speaker 2:I do like that. The deed said the Vision on it. Yeah, yep, mr the Vision, mr the Vision. She explodes from her grief and it creates the hex One moment. And Agatha's like aha, I still don't know how you're doing this. You're just stupid powerful.
Speaker 1:Well, she says I have a theory, but I need a little bit more. And then we go to the experimentation, and then we figure out what actually happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Mind Stone unlocked her Scarlet Witchiness.
Speaker 1:Right, because, like we said, she always was a witch and the the scar, like the, the mind stone just gave her, just like it gave pietro power, it still gave her power, it just she finally got it unlocked and you know the witch nature, with the genetic mutation of the of the mind stone, that's a potent mix.
Speaker 2:gives me the goosebumps um, we get the the uh, the avengers compound scene with her and vision lord. What is what is grief if not love persevering? What is he cooking? Um, I believe I just want to credit this. So, laura, laura, donnie wrote episode eight, so we can probably credit her with that line.
Speaker 1:Just a phenomenal episode in my opinion.
Speaker 2:That's one of my favorite episodes from the mcu yeah, I just love those, those, love those little in-between moments of like in-between these movies, like the quiet moments with these characters where Wanda and Vision are just kind of chatting and it's a very realistic take on someone grieving and someone in this case Vision not knowing how to console that person. Where he's like you know, like what do you? He doesn't really ask her like what she wants, but like she basically says like the only thing I want is Pietro back, and she kind of like snaps at him you know what I mean and she just takes a moment and steps back and she's like I'm sorry, like you know it just, and Vision's like I'm just going to sit here, like I'm just going, you know, watch some sitcoms together. You know what I mean, and that's kind of like the genesis of their love, essentially Right, and then Agatha figures it out. Basically she's like you have chaos magic.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't be the Scarlet Witch, would you?
Speaker 2:So she brings Wanda back. Agatha's gone. She hears her kids crying. Agatha's got them leashed up. She's in her. Agatha's gone. She hears her kids crying. Agatha's got them leashed up. She's in her full Agatha.
Speaker 1:It's a great looking suit on Agatha here we got one more great looking suit to talk about.
Speaker 2:Then we cut back to the sword base White Vision You're White Vision from Marvel Comics. We get to episode 9. I remember this finale being not well received. I think it's pretty good.
Speaker 1:I still think it's still solid.
Speaker 2:It just devolves into a big Marvel thing.
Speaker 1:My thing, too, is people are like how dare they do this? I said what about the other 30 MCU projects that ended the same way? Why was this the one that you got mad?
Speaker 2:at it still ends on a really emotional. Yeah, the tone of the show never gets lost, mm-hmm, even in this big finale, mm-hmm, you know, obviously, when she breaks the hex down and you know what's funny.
Speaker 1:If the finale didn't end like this, I feel like people still would have been upset.
Speaker 2:I mean, you have to resolve it Right. You have to resolve this. If you're going to put two witches against each other, something's got to give here right, like they gotta fight, right, sure, um, and we get, uh, the ship of theses. Um, hardness is agatha's like I'm taking your magic, I'm, I'm gonna be the chaos magic wielder now. Um, and then the vision comes in. White vision swoops in to attack Wanda and she's like Vision and he's like no. But, yes, he gives her the face squeeze and you're like ooh, ouch. And then other Vision shows up. Don't I keep my wife's name. Other Vision shows up. So we get Wanda releases the Westview residence. She's like a big battle's about to happen, everybody get out. We get the Ralph Boner reveal. Still don't like it, I still don't like it. And then, yeah, this is a big finale. All your main players are inside the hex. The sword stuff comes to fruition.
Speaker 1:I love that little bit where it's the four of them, it's the boys. All your main players are inside the hex. The sword stuff comes to fruition. I love that little bit where it's the four of them. It's the boys Wanda and Vision. It's like boys. We never really prepared you for this, but you've always been ready, so we get basically the battle split on three fronts.
Speaker 2:We get Wanda and Agatha, we get the Visions, we get Monica and the children versus sword. Essentially, we get to see Monica's powers in full view. Soldiers shoot at her, she the bullets phase through her, and then Darcy comes in, wham Takes.
Speaker 1:Hayward out yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we get the visions, have a chat Like a couple of gents. They punch for a bit and then they're like Wait.
Speaker 1:Are you me and am I you? He's me. He says I'm me, he says Wait. Can I ask you a question? Yeah, Let me ask you something real quick.
Speaker 2:Are you familiar with the concept of the ship of Theseus, he said, and White Vision's like of course.
Speaker 1:White Vision said I'm a genius, of course, come on man know the ship of theseus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's like are you the ship of theseus? And my vision's like huh, maybe I am, neither are the true ship.
Speaker 1:Both are the true ship what is going on here, and then he unlocks his mind and then he's like I am the vision and then the then. Then the og's vision should have been like he's on me and he's.
Speaker 2:And he's like may I touch your head? Yeah, he's like sure, I guess. Are we brothers? No, no, maybe he touches his head. We get a smash. We get a super cut of the Vision's greatest hits Yep. Up until the point he was obliterated Right. And then the Vision's like whoa I, whoa, I am the Vision. And then he flies off Right To his own spinoff show Yep, exactly Yep. And then we get Wanda vs Agatha. They're firing magic at each other. And Wanda's like I learned something from you. And then Wanda's like Sailor Moon, transformation activate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm taking you back Mind tricks. Remember the mind tricks from Origin of Ultron? They're back. Suck it, that was great.
Speaker 2:I love that they brought that back. When she's like whoop, I'm in your head and you're like oh, and then Agatha's like did you?
Speaker 1:I'm also a witch. We literally just talked about that. Now you're going to remember. And then you know, she used my old trick against me.
Speaker 2:Now she's mollywh. Wanda's like wait, you forgot about the runes Right. And then Wanda's like Sailor Moon, transformation powers activate. She gets the Scarlet Witch costume. It's still the best looking Scarlet.
Speaker 1:Witch costume. It's so dang good. It's got that little piece to look like the Mind Stone in the middle because right around, oh good stuff.
Speaker 2:Sleeveless. Yep Like the cape, she's got the cape. She's got the crown right.
Speaker 1:Agatha's like oh no bro, no bro it's the scarlet witch, yeah, and like the fear in her eyes, it's not that the fact that she lost. It's like you don't know what you just released upon to this world yeah, uh, she puts the runes up and agatha's powerless.
Speaker 2:and then wanda's like yeah she, she drops them out of the sky and she's like I'm not going to kill you, but I'm going to trap you in the in the agnes persona. Basically, basically, right, yep.
Speaker 1:Give it.
Speaker 2:And then she does it Right. She saps Agatha's magic, she traps her in the Agnes persona and just leaves her in Westview, Yep. And then we get again. We get to just the heartbreaking final scene where Wanda what's the problem? Why would they do?
Speaker 1:this to her.
Speaker 2:Where Wanda has to let them go. Final scene where. Wanda has to let them go, her kids and the Vision. They have one final goodbye and she breaks down the hex and we get Vision and the kids, the children, they vanish and you're like Jesus Christ, jesus Christ, this show. And then we have to set up some things. So we get Monica gets called into a theater by a Skrull. Yeah, you know the Skrulls from Marvel Comics and they're like the boss wants to see you, the boss, the boss.
Speaker 1:It's Nick Fury. Yeah, it is Nick Fury. He's up in space. Yeah, you're up in space getting soft and we're your little errand boys down here. We getting soft and we get little errand boys down here.
Speaker 2:we're gonna re-talk about secret invasion, but from a comedic perspective. They send monica up to do a secret invasion yeah, but she's never.
Speaker 1:She's not in, no, no, she's just in the marvels she should have been secret invasion question mark. That would have probably been a little smarter. But who are we to say?
Speaker 2:um, and then we get a post credit scene. Guess what court your favorite book is back? No, no.
Speaker 1:Why does everybody read the Dark Hole? Just leave it alone. The book's no good. The book has the worst track record of being good. Who wins from reading the Dark Hole? Not Wanda. Give me one person that won from reading the Dark Hole Doctor Strange, alternate Earth, doctor Strange. But then he was murdered because he was too powerful. They were like the Illuminati's, like you know, we have to kill you, right? And he's like yeah, there's no good that comes from the Darkhold.
Speaker 2:Dream walking, you hypocrite.
Speaker 1:Dude, you can't tell me Raimi wasn't cooking. He was cooking. Take out the multiversals. Take out the Illuminati stuff from Multiverse of Madness.
Speaker 2:That movie's hold. Oh ron, put it down, she's not. Not only is she reading the dark hold, she's actual project reading the dark hold no, it's the worst way to read it on autopilot.
Speaker 1:No, let's put the dark hold she's asleep, the scarlet witch. Actual projection is reading the dark hold and she's like my boys, my boys from the multiverse. I'm coming flipping pages she's flipping pages um. She's on wonder gore mountain. No, she's, she's in a cabin. Yeah, we thought it was wonder girl mountain at the time. That was what the theory was. She goes there yeah, she brings wong against his will and wong's like. I don't want to go.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go. She's like you're going. That's my favorite part. One of my favorite parts of multiverse of madness is they get some wonder girl bat and wong's like no way to get up there. Yeah, sorry, wanda, and wanda's like no, no, no, did you know I can fly?
Speaker 1:She flies now. She flies now.
Speaker 2:She drags Wong up there. Wong's like, oh no.
Speaker 1:Oh, I hate this.
Speaker 2:But yeah, she's reading the Darkhold.
Speaker 1:Just put it down. Put the dang Darkhold down.
Speaker 2:We find out she's been reading it for quite a while. Yeah, by the time we get to Multiverse of madness to the point where she, she can just she's creating.
Speaker 1:She's still creating exes. Yeah, she created a nice little garden. Dr strange is like this is a nice garden and one is like, yeah, yeah it is, it's real. I didn't wait, I didn't ask you if it was real or not. Ah, you got me, just took some. Got me. I'm evil, I'm the Scarlet Witch. Ah, shoot, aw man, aw man.
Speaker 2:I've been tricked. I've been duped. Call you Dr Dumbass. You've been tricked.
Speaker 1:How'd you fall for the old Scarlet Witch and an apple orchard trick, dang, dang it. Let's give out some awards for this show. That's WandaVision, that's WandaVision, it's great.
Speaker 2:It's really great, real good. Like I said, elizabeth Olsen just brilliant. She did everything. She did the sitcom bits exceptionally well. She did Tragic Wanda incredibly well. She did Scarlet Witch Wanda incredibly well. So I mean, I I'm not gonna spoil anything, but she's, she's my mvp of this whole thing. But yeah, let's, uh, let's do some awards yeah, um best let's, let's start with saddest moment oh, it's wanda, I think it's wanda, collapsing in the, in the lot, when you're just, it's just like a culmination of just everything. It's sad.
Speaker 1:It's sad man. Uh, I'm gonna go with when she's goes to see the vision and she gets to his corpse and she kind of pulls, or rogue did a her from x-men 97 where she's just like I, I can't feel you wolf oh yeah, it's rough and he's like in pieces, he's in pieces.
Speaker 2:yep, and you're like, he's like in the coldest environment possible for this type of tragic goodbye. Yep, yeah, that's terrible. Best side character I'm going to say Jimmy Woo.
Speaker 1:Love me some, jimmy Woo, I'm going to go with Monica.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I mean, jimmy was just well-deployed.
Speaker 1:He's also very endearing. He's just like a good fella. Yeah yeah, he's the best fella. Um, let's do uh.
Speaker 2:Most underrated character in this show um, I think I'm gonna say monica for that one. I think she that's fair, especially upon rewatch, like she feels. Again, it just goes back to my point about like should have expedited some of this a little bit quicker because like I wanted to see more of that character and like it did its job, like WandaVision finished, and I'm like I want to see more of her, like I want to see what happened with her and Carol, like I want to see that stuff.
Speaker 1:That goes to my point about legacy Like she was one of the legacy pieces from the show, like she is the moving on of Captain Marvel into the new age of, you know, of Maria Rambeau. She's literally the legacy of Maria Rambeau. Yeah, most underrated character, dottie, because I thought she was Clea, everyone thought she was Clea Yep.
Speaker 2:She gave Clea vibes. She did, she definitely did. She's coming back.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, the Mrs Hart's coming back. Oh, she's coming back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think she's just gonna be like an avatar for, like, what's going on in vestibule, sure, sure um, but she's also a witch, is she?
Speaker 1:I think that's what they're trying to say, is that she also was a witch. She's not kidding, from that 70s show come on man uh, most heroic moment, uh, vision saving. Saving wanda, because keep my wife's name out your mouth, yeah yeah, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Um, because it's hard to like say like any of the scarlet witchiness stuff is heroic I mean I'll remix it to like the family, like their little fantastic four moment with the family. Yeah, to fight everybody. Yeah, it's such was, like, it's such a crazy play on like the, the ending of she-hulk, because it was very serendipitous how everybody was coming up at the same, like the sword agents were coming up, and then agatha's in the sky, and then white visions, white vision, then white vision, then white visions right there, and you're like, oh shoot, oh no bro yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I did.
Speaker 2:I did like the, the bit, I did like her little like trapping agatha in the runes, and then she does like her, like I said, her like sailor moon transformation and becomes the scarlet witch, like that's, like one the best. It's a great ascension to heroism when she just full get-up shows up and you're like oh is she?
Speaker 1:cool now. She's cool now. Favorite cameo Is it the idea of the ship of Theses?
Speaker 2:In a show that people wanted a billion cameos. Cameos, I mean the quicksilver. One's hard to beat even though it's undermined by the finale, right, but like at the time, you're like oh, what the moly? Like this is sick.
Speaker 1:The fox theories were going insane.
Speaker 2:It was not this magneto gonna show up?
Speaker 1:yes, I'm in. I will subscribe to that um best heat check performance. Catherine Han.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like from the jump. When she shows up in the first episode, you're just like who are you?
Speaker 1:And why do I need more of?
Speaker 2:you. You're the greatest. Are you the best actor who's ever acted? Funniest moment. I like the yakety yak moment. It's fun. It still makes me laugh.
Speaker 1:It's fun they got the papers in the trash like out of nowhere. And I love wanda in the background, like what is he doing? So that that still makes me laugh so hard. Um, I'm gonna have to go with episode six, like the, the malcolm in the middle inspiration, because like that was out of all the sitcoms that that's the one that I was most like kin to like, I was most drawn to, cause that's my nostalgia piece, is Malcolm in the middle. So, um, all the stuff, all the little things Malcolm in the middle inspired stuff that they did, speaking of that, um, it's the episode after when they do another?
Speaker 2:I think no, it's the modern family episode that. And then Vision, kind of like WandaVision. His name just shows up at the end but every other thing just says Wanda, which again I thought was just a great kind of hint at who's in control of this whole thing. Sure, best source material callback.
Speaker 1:Just the witchy stuff, just the witchy stuff.
Speaker 2:The witchy stuff, the Darkhold. I love the.
Speaker 1:Darkhold. Stop reading the Darkhold.
Speaker 2:Why does?
Speaker 1:everybody have to open. Dude, it's called the Book of the Damned. Stop reading the Darkhold.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen the Darkhold since. Agents of SHIELD. Hot take Best use of the Darkhold. I was like, oh, the Darkhold's back.
Speaker 1:Just put the Darkhold down. You don't need it. Oh, this might be the best one, best NPC.
Speaker 2:Is it Vision? I'm going to say I like Herb.
Speaker 1:I'm going to raise your Herb and go, norm.
Speaker 2:Norm's also good. This is the best show, best media that we've ever done for this topic, because like literally the whole point.
Speaker 1:This and the Matrix were probably the best too.
Speaker 2:Is that they're all NPCs? Yeah, it's like, that's like the point, right, you know? So I think I was like I like Herb, I like Herb, I like what Herb was about.
Speaker 1:Right, he's real. He might not have control, but he's a real. One best song.
Speaker 2:I mean that Agatha all along song. It's a certified bop agreed best musical moment.
Speaker 1:I quite like the main theme that she oh. The theme where the Scarlet Witch descended upon Dara was insane. That was a great bit of story.
Speaker 2:I also like the remixed version of the Avengers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, when they cut to that Civil War in the bedroom bit and they kind of play like a spooky version of the Avengers game.
Speaker 1:Good stuff, good stuff. I like that too. Favorite line what is grief?
Speaker 2:if not love, persevering.
Speaker 1:There's just woof and we'll leave it there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I would struggle to come up with a with a with a with another contender.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean that is just there's quotes and stuff where, like, the quote is good for the thing, that's just an all time quote, for just life.
Speaker 2:Now, that's what a quote for just life itself. Whoever penned that quote just phenomenal. I I was was. When he said it.
Speaker 1:I was like oh jesus and paul bettany, on top of that which you know, uh favorite world building or lore moment. Um, I think it's just the inception of the scarlet witch. I thought was so freaking cool because you were waiting you've been waiting for it, right? I think episode eight as a whole is probably the best world building or lore moment it was that.
Speaker 2:It was that moment, I think, in episode six, when they're talking about wanda and they're like, and hey, we're just like she doesn't have like a, like a nickname or like a gimmick, and and that made me realize like, oh yeah, like she's never actually been called the scarlet witch before, and then that turns out to be the point of the whole show, right, because I was like, oh yeah, she just has been wanda maximoff this whole time, like so yeah, like her ascension to becoming the scarlet witch good stuff stuff.
Speaker 1:Favorite shot it's the descending of the Scarlet Witch. I think it is the cool. It's the reverse shot back to Wanda. It's almost as if she's succumbing to the Scarlet Witch. It's almost to that nexus point of it knows no bounds of time. How did she see that? Before it was even accepted to her? Because it doesn't know time.
Speaker 2:Time isn't an element that's encompassing of it. I quite like the episode four, the silhouette of her right before she comes through the hex.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool stuff. It's good stuff, not bad. Favorite performance.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth Olsen for me.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna go Paul Bettany. I thought he was so freaking good so incredible.
Speaker 2:I mean she, like I said she again. Like by the time the show ended I was just like just make her the main character of this whole thing. Like she, because she can carry it, yep, yep, um favorite character um, it's the scarlet witch it's tough not to say wanda yeah, I mean, I, I would you know.
Speaker 2:Part of me wants to say like, oh, like, agatha was fun. Um, I really like the multi-dimensional aspect of the vision, um, especially when, when the other vision comes in and you get to see for a brief moment the Ultron version of the Vision, basically.
Speaker 1:What the original intention probably was to be. Yeah, but sometimes it's not complicated. And then your favorite moment it's tough not to beat the ending of episode nine, where she unfortunately has to let go of everything.
Speaker 2:And then vision's so long darling, I'm like wolf and he's just yeah, he gets like vaporized, yep, and you're just like ouch, yep, um. Yeah, I mean it's that, or just I really just enjoyed the like, the not enjoyed, but like chronicling Wanda's grief, you know, just that whole, from her parents to to the visions, all that stuff, yep, um yeah, that's it, that's, that's the. I really enjoyed it, man.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed it Like being removed from it.
Speaker 2:you know being able to consume it nine episodes, you know, right in a row, without having to like wait a week in between, without like the crazy theorizing Is Magneto going to show up?
Speaker 1:Is Reed Richards in this? Are they going to? Introduce Blue Marvel, mephisto, I think Blue Marvel was my favorite one Because it was so outlandishly ridiculous in hindsight. Yeah, like why would Blue Marvel of all the projects show up in this one? Like what are we talking?
Speaker 2:about. He's got some ties to Spectrum and I'm like they're not gonna.
Speaker 1:No, they just introduced her, why would he be here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. What are you guys waiting for? The Blue Marvel spin-off project, right?
Speaker 1:right and again is going to be in this. Oh yeah, yeah, that was the oh, Lord, Lord.
Speaker 2:It was because of Paul Bettany. Yeah, because he's the greatest actor on the show. I've always wanted to work with this actor and we had some scenes together and people were like it's Al Pacino, you know, because in past interviews I think he said his favorite actor was Al Pacino.
Speaker 1:So everybody's like movie am I thinking about with him? And, uh, him and keanu reeves. Um, you want to rapid fire the?
Speaker 2:project infinite awards. Yeah, glenn powell movie star award elizabeth easy.
Speaker 1:Uh, john david washington, can they act award um the twins I hate you can't do it.
Speaker 2:On kid actors, I'm gonna say tyler hayward, yeah. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know hayward's actor, like, did he play that wooden on purpose or is he just wooden?
Speaker 1:yeah I gotta agree. That's uh, denzel washington, they can't act. Award katherine hann yep um 824. Let the director cook at shackman. They let him cook with all the, especially in the mcu, which was very, you know. Admittedly it was very uniform to itself and you know how we know he cooked he's directing the fantastic four? Yep. Um in the in the? Are they them, she her or he him award? It's a squall, it's. It's elizabeth olsen, he cooked, he's directing the Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four, yep, and the. Are they them she?
Speaker 2:Her or he Him award. It's a Scarlet Witch.
Speaker 1:It's Elizabeth Olsen.
Speaker 2:Is this yours?
Speaker 1:Is this yours? I'm not the one with the guns.
Speaker 2:This is your final warning Cooked. Oh God, she's so scary, she is scary, she is scary. And she was scary in Multiverse of Madness. She was real scary. She does that thing in WandaVision like she did in Multiverse of Madness the deadpan camera. Stare, I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it like through the. I think it's when she's face to face with the drone and she kind of like looks at us. I'm like pull that drone, get that drone out of here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, get that jelly mold out of here. Oh, that guy should have been in WandaVision. Oh, he would have been the perfect NPC. Oh man, I want to go back in time. Oh, they need to put him in every Marvel project. That's the thing they got to do. Put him in everything he into WandaVision. He would have fit right in. I can't wait for Severance season two to see him again, see my boy again.
Speaker 2:He would put him fit right into WandaVision. Get that jelly mold out of here. Fallout Peak, get that rabbit out of here. Oh, that's the other thing. People thought the rabbit was going to be like Mephisto or whatever happened there. Nah.
Speaker 1:It's just a tree man.
Speaker 2:It's just a tree. That's actually the perfect line that represents WandaVision as a whole. It's just a tree man. It's just a ride man. It's just a tree. Agatha's just a villain. I don't know what to tell you there's no Mephisto here. No, sorry, will we get Mephisto and Agatha all along?
Speaker 1:Don't do this. No, don't do it. I feel what you're trying. Don't do it, don't try it.
Speaker 2:We're doing it again. Don't try it. Can't wait for the theorizer. No, are we going to talk about that next week?
Speaker 1:The first two episodes yeah, yeah, let's do it, let's do it. I'm excited like yeah and now it's a trilogy. Now it's defined as this is the, the second part of the trilogy.
Speaker 2:Like katherine, katherine hunt deserves this. Yeah, like it did feel like when they announced it, like, oh, they're just capitalizing on on the song and like nah she's actually great like as the character.
Speaker 1:Like we said, the trailers have me more and more and more. I'm like I actually gotta see this now and the big whether it's a gimmick cell or it's an actual cell to make this thing a trilogy. It at least makes sense now that this is going to be the second part and then the Vision show will be the last part, which I am very much assuming, that's when Elizabeth Olsen is going to make her return.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited, like again, like watching this show, thinking back on Multiverse of Madness, like anytime she shows up it feels like a big deal. Mm-hmm, you know, shows up, it feels like a big deal. You know whether it's age of ultron, whether it's civil war, whether it's endgame. When she shows back up, like anytime that character's on the screen, like I'm, I'm paying attention, right. So like if she shows up back up in this vision show at the, you know, after the agatha show, like I'm gonna be in. Yeah, like I, I want to see her again and I want to see her do stuff. I want to see her like the arc. The arc is working to the point where, like she does, like the turn at the end of Multiverse of Madness, but like I'm excited, I want to see her be like a proper hero.
Speaker 1:Well, that's her second part and the best part about the second movie that we always talk about. Beat the living crap out of the character and, whether it be physically, mentally or emotional, beat the living crap out of the and she's been beating up a lot right now, it's her. Now it's time for her to come back like I want to.
Speaker 2:I want to see that character do some heroic shit, yeah, and like show up and like I want to see her interact with these other characters again like I want to see her you know I need her and loki together to some capacity like I I want to see, like obviously I want to see her and vision again and her and agatha again, but like I want to see her back with like sam, yeah, yep. Like I want to see her back with like the avengers because hawkeye, specifically, is the one I need to see again. Yeah because, like none of them have seen her, I know what's going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah hawkeye's probably got to be like where's my like? Because she was almost like borderline, like her, his daughter surrogate, until he got kate of like yo, where is she like? What? What happened to like this person? I was like taking care of like in civil war.
Speaker 2:They have a great like that great scene together when he goes to rescue her yep and he's like all right, like you know, we're doing this like I'm here and I'm here to save you, you know like, yeah, I want to see her do stuff. Like I'm excited and you know, obviously elizabeth olsen brings so much to that role like I just want to, I just want to see it.
Speaker 1:Um that's it, man.
Speaker 2:That's it man um, you can follow us on twitter at project INF underscore pod. You can follow us on facebook. You can follow us on youtube at the project infinite podcast. All the episodes are posted up on youtube the minute they go live on all the other podcast platforms apple, spotify, yada yada. You can follow us on instagram at the project infinite pod. And next week, first two episodes of Agatha all along. I'd imagine the first episode will be a lot of setup. Second episode will probably be the launch point to the rest of the season.
Speaker 1:To get them on the road.
Speaker 2:It's usually how this thing gets structured when they pair episodes together. They did it with X-Men 97. Episode one was just like.
Speaker 1:This is the X-Men. The X-Men are cool.
Speaker 2:Are they cool?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're cool.
Speaker 2:And then the second episode.
Speaker 1:You know the magneto stuff like set up like the no, we're for real, like this is for real like the larger plot of the season.
Speaker 2:So I it does make me think like they're somewhat confident in these, in in this show, to pair the first two episodes together. That you know so much that it'll, it'll set things up and uh, hopefully the internet chills a little bit with, uh, the theorizing Cause, cause, relax Everyone, just just relax, 100%. Um, but that's it from me, from the careful man, careful from the Jimmy Woo, the podcast, ooh hey shut up, shut up. Oh dear, oh dear.
Speaker 1:That's what Agatha should have said when the Scarlet Witch came out. Oh dear, oh dear. That's what Agatha should have said when the Scarlet Witch came out.
Speaker 2:Oh dear, that was actual Beast.
Speaker 1:when Monica arrived in the other universe. Oh, dear Kelsey Grammer, everybody, he's the best. Kelsey Grammer loves playing Beast Dude. I'm telling you, make that whatever universe the X-Men 97, just have it be the modern day X-Men. That Monica showed up in Monica's in an X-Men universe and like that just got brushed under the rug With Maria, with Maria Crazy stuff. Yeah, we gotta go, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do gotta go. Alright, guys, we'll see you next week for the review of the first two episodes of Agatha. All along Can't believe it's. It feels like it took way too long, but also like it's already here, like it's here now.
Speaker 1:It's mid-September, we did it.
Speaker 2:Time doesn't exist. Yeah, so yeah, that'll be a good time. I'm ready for it. Until then, goodbye, peace.
