The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
137 - Unraveling Blade's Delay & Unpacking What Went Wrong With Joker 2
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We’re back this week with another movie review. It’s rare that we get a film that causes both of us to scratch our heads and try to piece together exactly what we saw, but WB and Todd Phillips gave us that in the form of Joker 2: Folie a Deux. Part musical, part courtroom drama, part repudiation of the first film by its director. This will go down as one of the most…interesting movie releases of the 21st century. We break down what went wrong and what we think the point is of Joker 2. Before that we cover the breaking MCU news surrounding Blade and many other news items! Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
0:38 BREAKING NEWS: Marvel Postpones Blade Indefinitely
07:35 Christopher Nolan’s Next Movie & Other Cinema Notes
18:55 Video Game News: No Spider-Man DLC & God of War Show Troubles
25:03 Dune: Prophecy Trailer & Daredevil Release Date
31:00 Lanterns Casting Official: Kyle Chandler & Aaron Pierre
35:40 Joker 2: The Joke Was on Us. What Went Wrong Here?
45:45 Nothing Happens in Joker 2
01:01:42 Joker 2 Ending Discussion
01:13:39 Signing Off & We Preview Venom 3
Topic for Next Week: Venom: The Last Dance Review
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It's the Infinite.
Speaker 2:Podcast Go tell your friends it's the Infinite Podcast.
Speaker 1:My God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Robin Korker-Kill.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom, from movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We got you covered. I'm Rob. I'm here, as always, with Court, court. We took a couple weeks off and now we're back.
Speaker 1:We are back. We're back with breaking news we are back with breaking news. Somebody get the fish from Spongebob.
Speaker 2:We got breaking news. The Situation Room. The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer.
Speaker 1:With Mission Impossible's Wolf.
Speaker 2:Blitzer With Cinema's Wolf Blitzer. He is Cinema's Wolf Blitzer. He's been in things, he's been in things. But yeah, we do have breaking news surrounding Marvel and Blade. It's never coming out. It's not good news. So Blade has been delayed indefinitely and there are no plans for a new release date, which is about as bad a news that you could think.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I mean my first thing and my first thought is to Mahershala Ali. I mean he's gonna walk away from this.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think he probably already walked away.
Speaker 1:That's why they delayed it indefinitely. I haven't Well, now that's not going to happen because of the lanterns thing, but I do have an eye. There is a scenario where Mahershala steps away and they get a new blade. That's the only thing I can think of. But you made such a big deal out of this and I don't know if we're going to mention it, but the way that agatha has been cooking the last couple weeks like we were not expecting that show to be, to be that good and just the your, your magic side of the mcu, that kind of quarter has been to your point, maybe the most stable in the last four years has been that magical or not the magical, just the cult yeah, like the occult side of the universe between like the doctor, strange movies, um, all the stuff they've done with the scarlet witch across multiple projects now, um, werewolf by night was really really good, um.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I feel like as far as like consistency they're like a cult, kind of spooky, kind of magical, mystical, that type of realm that corner has been really solid, um, and it just makes me wonder. I think they're just gonna roll the character into something else. I don't think.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean do do you not do midnight suns or do you just worry about secret wars right now? Because I think this was also a waiting game. I think they jumped the gun and we're like all right. Maher shhala Ali you know two time Oscar winner, mahershala Ali, high cinemas.
Speaker 1:Mahershala Ali said I want to do a Marvel thing, like put him in a Marvel thing. It doesn't matter what he is and he's blade, and it should be simple. You, you would think how simple could this be? And apparently it's just not. This is such a difficult process to be had. But I wonder, because I know, uh, james, uh samuels was was attached to this for a second to to take over the directing home, which would have been awesome if you saw the harder they fall. That would have been an awesome choice, but I have a feeling the delayed indefinitely, I think. Maher shawley said I'm done, I I can't believe you guys did this to me and I'll also double down to. I will not be surprised if marshall skips to the other side of time and goes to goes with james gunn in the dcu yeah, I mean the guy, I mean I.
Speaker 2:He hasn't what's he been in recently I don't think he's.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think of what he's done. Uh, what's the movie on netflix? Um, when the world was ending? Yeah, that was the. That's the last thing. I can remember him off the top of my head. He had that other show on Apple TV as well too. But or the movie on Apple TV. But you know, like I said, that's two time Oscar winner, mahershala Ali, and you know what I think too. I think he was promised things by Marvel, and I also think that he probably spent a lot of his time and mental capacity on this project to make sure it's right. I mean, you're you're bringing out a legacy that Wesley Snipes owned for a little bit, and then Wesley Snipes comes back in the last year. It's frustrating for lack of a better term that we talk about projects being a little bit more difficult. Obviously, we're not experts on this, but using context, clues and deductions, you can kind of assume that a Blade project shouldn't be too overtly complicated to make.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we're going to talk about another thing in a couple minutes. People are making vampire things and it doesn't seem to be overly complicated, right? So we're going to talk about that in a couple minutes. But yeah, I mean, this just spells to me that they're going to shut down the idea of making a Blade movie, yeah, yep, and just roll him into something else.
Speaker 1:Or if they even roll him into something else. Maybe they're going to wait for a couple years. Maybe they wait until, I mean, it's 2024. It's about to be 2025. We know the slate through what? 2027? Or most of the slate through 2027?. We may not see this character until like28, 2029. That's not wesley snipes if he were to come back in secret wars I was gonna say I have this, I have this.
Speaker 2:Not, I guess it is a fear um that if they do roll the character until like a midnight suns, I think they would just use wesley snipes especially now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you were to do midnight suns in between this and secret wars, you would probably do a multi-version, multiversal version.
Speaker 2:So I mean he looks, to be honest, like he looks blades of vampire first of all, like he's kind of this ageless thing. So like you could just conceivably, if wesley snipes wanted to do it, you could conceivably just make him yep, because what's he doing?
Speaker 1:right, you can. You can get ghost rider out of this as well too, and you have two options for that. Obviously, their first choice would be nicholas cage, but you still have um, you still have diego or gabriel luna right, and the winds too, so you have options to pull if they want to do this idea. I just, I mean the overall, overall. It's just it's a shame, it is very a shame that I don't know the behind the scenes of what happened. I don't want to speculate on anything like that, but it's just.
Speaker 1:You know, you know, from my opinion, it's just it's tough to see somebody like Mahershala Ali not be able to get that crown in the MCU and really be a pillar at that point too. I mean, I just don't understand. And the actors that they had in there too and I guarantee you, aaron Pierre probably took lanterns after this movie fell through, so some of their agents probably knew that this movie wasn't going to happen at some point too. Yeah, because he was supposed to play one of the villains in this movie, probably the main villain, and then Delroy Lindo in this movie as well, and you know, it just feels like I don't know why this couldn't have been prioritized or maybe cut into a show. I don't understand why this was so difficult.
Speaker 2:I don't know and I mean I guess we'll never know um yeah it's just a shame, because I think everyone was really looking forward to seeing oh my god, remember the 2019 comic-con announcement if man, that was five years ago it was five years ago, that's. And nothing, nothing like nothing, came of it.
Speaker 1:That's so, that's that movie should have came out plausibly at the very latest 2023, and I mean the absolute latest.
Speaker 2:I mean not to not to be like the both sides of this, but if this was like a dc thing, people would be like they're done. Yep, you know what I mean. Like this is it? Yada, yada. But because it's marvel, like it's probably gonna be one of those things that just kind of like is a blip as soon as, like the daredevil trailer comes out, like everyone's, everyone's gonna forget about this, which is unfortunate, because they should be held to a better standard than than letting this project rot for five years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, essentially, um, but moving on, um, speaking of vampires, um, christopher nolan not christopher nolan has come out, but it has been revealed yeah um, or reported, I suppose that, uh, christopher nolan's next film is getting ready to rock and roll and it is tell me if you've heard this plot before. Okay, it's a vampire film. Okay, set in the 1920s is it?
Speaker 1:is it ron coogler's new movie? No, you would think that.
Speaker 2:But no, um, this is gonna be christopher nolan's new movie, um, reportedly starring tom holland and christopher nolan favorite matt damon.
Speaker 1:Yeah I think that's pretty cool, and I mean, from this junction, I I'm assuming that tom holland's gonna be the main character of this thing and they're gonna yeah, he's gonna keep utilizing matt damon in the same way where matt damon's kind of your, he could be your, your supporting character. Yeah, character to age, your main character. Yeah, shout out to Tom Holland, who I think people tend to forget. He's an actual, real world, really good actor too, and I think something like this is. I think this is something he needed at this point too. So you got both sides of the coin. I mean his next couple of years, like I'm glad he got to take that break. I know he talked about some struggles with alcoholism. He was having some tough personal times, so it's nice to see he got to take that break. Zendaya's his girlfriend that's awesome. And now he's ready to get back into the fold of Marvel. He's ready to get back with one of the greatest directors to ever live, christopher Nolan, to be the main character. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I mean Nolan is one of those, obviously he, yeah, I agree. Um, I mean nolan is one of those, obviously, obviously he's one of those directors that we've talked about in previous weeks where as soon as his thing gets announced, people start getting excited for it. I mean, you know, oppenheimer just became one of the biggest movies of all time, um, and I mean the guy's resume is pretty bulletproof. So you know, and this is, you know, it's following the nolan trend of like you do the historical thing and then you do like the kind of wacky thing, um, so this is the kind of wacky thing and I guess he had avenues too, and I mean, in my head I was thinking about this too.
Speaker 1:I have. There's probably a an alternate future where he did tenant two, because I think people were were clamoring for that, to get the back half of that story, or the un-back half of that story. What's Tenet?
Speaker 2:2 about or what's Tenet about.
Speaker 1:We need a three-week period to discuss Tenet. But no, at the end of the day, like you said, he is the. I announce something people will be there, and I was talking about this too. His soundscape for Oppenheimer unlocked the door to do a horror project. That's where I'll keep it at, because, you know, if you really want to get technical about things, you know of what the definition of horror is. Nolan has that unlocked, and it's been the last two movies that he did were kind of where he's really started to dive into it, especially in Oppenheimer 2. This is going to be really interesting. I'm going to call it now. Cillian Murphy's going to be in this movie too. He'll call him for something. I would say so, but I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued to see him dive into horror as well.
Speaker 2:I can't wait for more Christopher Nolan movie casting announcements that we're going to do in the future. Oh, we're going to do in the future, oh we're going to have to lead with it each time, every week, as soon as we find out what the title of this movie is.
Speaker 1:Anybody else you'd like to see in this movie.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Like it could literally be anyone. I'm trying to think of somebody that would be cool in here A horror movie. Michael B Jordan. Michael B Jordan? No, which twin movie? Michael b jordan? Michael b jordan? No, which twin is it? It's the, it's the triplet. I feel like oscar eisek would be cool in something like this. I don't know why. I just popped into my head. I feel like he can play that horror element. Really well, hear me out, let maher shawley play. Play martian manhunter. No, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:I'd be into that, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:Batman and Dune are going to be filming, and Greg Frazier will be apparently available for both, much to the delight of both Matt Reeves and Denis Villeneuve, I'm sure, and Korn Probably much more to the delight of Matt Reeves, because it feels like greg frazier was going to do dune regardless.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he know and I mean you, you look at like the lands, you can talk landscape directors, you look landscape cinematographers. I mean it's it's greg frazier is quickly turning into like the modern art tour of cinematography because it was roger deakins. And then it's kind of like it almost feels in a weird way like roger deakins passed the torch to greg frazier because it's like greg frazier was the first one to kind of revolutionize the volume and make sure it was something that was credible to two projects and much to our point, that we've talked about before, that other people feel like they don't know how to how to get the full scale of it. It's like, no, you actually still have to approach this like a film. You can't just put the volume back there and just expect things to happen. I mean, he is one of the greatest that's ever going to live to do what he does. So to get him for both is just, I mean, nerdy.
Speaker 1:Me is like thank god, and I was thinking about that too, especially, like you said, for the batman. That was the one that I was concerned for. I mean, the penguin looks good. It actually looks really good. It's a really well-shot show, but at the end of the day there's just little quirks that you can't get from the person that's behind there. So, like we always talk about, it's not about the thing, it's about the people doing the thing. So, getting Greg Fraser back for Batman 2, I think that movie is going to be absolutely stellar, interstellar.
Speaker 2:Come on man, yeah, no, I totally agree. Come on man, yeah, no, I totally agree. I think obviously it worked out for, like I said, more so for Matt Reeves Because, like I said, he was going to do Dune regardless it felt like Same studio?
Speaker 1:yes, both Warner Brothers, yeah. Do you think that they made sure that that happened that way for Greg? Do you think Greg Frazier moves mountains like that?
Speaker 2:I was thinking about that this morning, this well in the wake of what happened with the joker, I think warner brothers probably needs all the wins they can get right now.
Speaker 1:Um so, yeah, um and other another that puts a we're gonna talk about in a little bit, but that puts a lot of pressure on james gunn like even more added pressure that he wasn't probably banking on having yep, um.
Speaker 2:so, uh, luca guadagnino is going to be making a remake of American Psycho.
Speaker 1:Yes, Good stuff. Now it's. It's awesome because he's such a dynamic filmmaker, in the sense too, and I it's crazy because he's been doing this for a little bit, but it's it's the last seven years that he's really kind of really hit the gas in his career. So you know, I mean call me by your name, bones and all, and then challengers, I career. So you know, I mean call me by your name, bones and all, and then challengers. I mean this, this guy is absolutely incredible. And I mean challengers.
Speaker 1:This year is going to be up for oscars. Um, obviously, call me by your name was up for oscars. I mean this, this is probably going to be the same thing, in my opinion, in american psycho. I don't see. Here's the thing. So luca guadagnino does the thing where he goes, uh, he goes goes to Italy and he meets with an actor, and he did it with Timothee Chalamet. You know who he did it with and who I think is going to actually play the American Psycho. It's probably going to be Jacob Elordi, because he met with him. There's the pictures. I can see that. I can see it too. I can see it too. You know who would be fun. I was thinking about it this morning um lewis pullman would be fun for something like that yeah, I mean, you know, this is, we're in this.
Speaker 2:This is the era where we're in, we're in remake era. We're, we're, we're that old now we're, we're remaking films that that we're aware of, um, and that makes it incredibly difficult. Obviously, american Psycho, one of the greatest movies of all time, christian Bale obviously puts up an all-time performance as Patrick Bateman.
Speaker 2:So I think, with this and any remake, I think you have to immediately establish that you're not trying to replicate what was and you're trying to do your own thing. I think that should be the through line for any project, regardless of genre, regardless of platform. Um, I think that needs to be priority a is not to replicate what was, but try you have to put your own spin on it and that's the bones and all in the room, of luca guadagnino's career.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a and a weird sense in that movie and I and it's it's oxymonic, but I guess it's why that movie works so well. That movie's tender, that movie has a tender undertone to it and I mean this is we're talking about a movie about you know, that has elements, not elements. This movie is about you know, cannibals for lack of a better term but you know something like that you're going to need. That's why that tenderness and I mean call me by your name has that through and through. That's why you get somebody like luca guadagnino, because you need to sell it. You need to sell like that.
Speaker 2:This absolute psychopath is somehow you can root for, which is funny of the source material we're talking about for this week just going and just going further into, like I'm thinking of christian bale's look in american psychos specifically, do you think he would tap chalamet for this? No no, because they do. They do work together. Not at all quite frequently, I don't think so. Because they do kind of. They kind of got a look I think he wants.
Speaker 1:I think he wants somebody new, I think he wants a crack at somebody new and, like I said, I feel like the way jacob alordi's career is going, this would be the perfect thing, because he's like he's he's this tall, like pretty boy that everybody loves right now I feel like he would be like he. He is a good choice to play patrick bateman yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's a great idea. Um, I just have in here the running man yes, yes.
Speaker 1:so glenn powell's new movie that Edgar writes back, yes, channel favorite, edgar writes back. So, um, obviously we we've been talking the last couple, you know the last few weeks about. You know how incredible Greg, uh, glenn Powell is. I mean, oh, his birthday was yesterday, just turned 36. So glenn powell as well too. But, um, glenn powell is getting that movie star praise too, of like, glenn powell is in a thing. You go see the thing and I mean I'm overtly excited to see josh roland also in this movie.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, josh roland's in this movie, lee pace is in this movie as well too, and katie o'brien and if katie o'brien and I were to get in a fistfight, pray for me, because she would annihilate me, um, but yeah, and. And then they also just added Jane Lawson, who played Bella Real in the Batman as well, too, to play his love interest in this movie. So I'm super excited. I don't know what this is going to be about. I don't know if it's from something.
Speaker 2:I think this is well this is a remake of the 1987 film, I think. I think it came out in 1987.
Speaker 1:kind of like a cult classic um right the running man yep um but I mean in edgar wright we trust. I mean, you look at edgar wright's body of work edgar wright's like. He's almost to that wes anderson range where it's like you. Once you know people are copying the thing that you do, that you're good at the thing that you do. That's where edgar wright's at. So I'm super excited.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to see something like this too yeah, and I mean, you know it's, it's borrowing kind of, you know, take your charismatic lead, like schwarzenegger was was the lead in the 1987 film. So you're basically just swapping out schwarzenegger for glenn powell and letting, and roland obviously will be playing the villain. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. Man, more bad news. So a couple bad news items on the video game adaptation front. So Insomniac paired the launch of Spider-Man 2 on PC with the news that they will not be pursuing any additional DLC for Spider-Man 2 on PC, with the news that they will not be pursuing any additional DLC for Spider-Man 2, which I am surprised by. But also I think it was a result of the leak that happened, however, many months ago. I think Insomniac was just like you know what? No, we're not doing it.
Speaker 2:The leak came out. There were plans for a Venom thing. Um, there were plans for, like, a venom thing. There were plans for, obviously, a carnage dlc, a couple other dlcs and I think, because as a result of that leak, I think insomniac just shut it down, um, and they're just washing their hands of spider man 2, which did well, um, it wasn't as monumental as the first one as far as sales, as far as just reception, and I think they just made a decision that they're just kind of done with it and fair play to them. They're obviously working on the Wolverine game and, like I said, I think they just decided that it's probably just not worth it and any DLC plans that they did have, they could potentially roll into Spider-Man 3.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I think is going to happen. They're just going to remix everything. Maybe you start the opening mission with the Carnage DLC, you make that the big opening mission and then there's the little Sandman Easter eggs in Spider-Man 2. Maybe you do that with Carnage throughout the third game and then you just focus on I think I talked about it too and it's funny we said that too, because I think we were comparing Jedi Survivor to Spider-Man 2, and as much as I really like that Spider-Man 2 game, there's reasons why Jedi Survivor even kicks it up a notch.
Speaker 1:That game gets so personal. That game gets overtly personal and I think it's that sole focus is what drives it through that third act of that game to spider-man 2. It still has that. You know those personal bits, but I feel like it's a little too broad, like it still feels so broad at the end. There's so much happening to. Your brain is so clogged by the time you hit, like the black, the final sequence in that game of what you're trying to do the city's turning upside like it gets so crazy. But Jedi Survivor feels very, very tailored to what you're trying to do to get after.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean retroactively and having a lot of distance I have not played Spider-Man 2 again since it came out and just having a lot of distance, I think there is an element of the game. They packed a lot into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um and credit to them, Like they they.
Speaker 2:It was like one of those things where, like, we're going to push this thing like to the boundaries of of what you think is possible. We're going to let you switch seamlessly between Peter and miles. But I think the story did suffer a bit because of that. Like, I think they tried to. Obviously they tried to give Peter and miles like two different yet also interwoven arcs and I feel like they just didn't give themselves I don't know if it was because of them or it was because of Sony kind of pushing them a little bit to like get this thing out.
Speaker 2:Um, I think that game definitely could have benefited from a little bit more development time. Um, and I think the more development time, and I think another reason they're doing this and another reason why I think they're going to roll a lot of these DLC ideas into Spider-Man 3, is because I think they're going to take their time with Spider-Man 3, and I think they're going to give us a game to remember like a bona fide game of the year, right contender. Like I think they they're very self-aware studio. I think they they recognize kind of the you know the, the criticisms justified or not. I think they're aware of the criticisms of spider-man 2 and they're going to really take their time with spider-man 3 and give it pretty much give give it everything that they have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um is what I think they're they're gearing up for. Yeah, um, and then, in other news, so the god of war live action series that amazon has hit a couple speed bumps, um, and by a couple speed bumps I mean that the showrunner and multiple producers have left the show after multiple script rights, um, that apparently amazon was very happy with. Um, but the studio just wants to move in a direction, different direction, and I'm curious of what that different direction could possibly be.
Speaker 1:I'm at a crossroads here because I'm thinking that this is kind of a creative difference in the sense of I have a feeling that Amazon wants it a little bit more. Getting towards that fallout line of this thing is very gritty and graphic. But then maybe some of those creators like no, we need to make this more. You know what I'm thinking. They we need to make this more of like a superhero thing. How we approach superhero things Like Kratos needs to be like this, and I'm, like you probably want to pick that fallout lane, because fallout is probably fought in. The last of us are the best two video game adaptations that like don't take away any of the brutality, don't take any of that away, and maybe it's also because they can't crack which god of war they want to pick I think that's part of it.
Speaker 2:I think they they are stuck in a crossroads between doing the greek stuff and doing the norse stuff we kind of we said it one week why don't you do both?
Speaker 1:you do, you do, you have it. You do the norse thing. You start at god of war 2018 that's the freshest in people's mind and then you retroactively have flashbacks to Kratos being an absolute menace for the Greek pantheon. I think that would be a great approach to that game. And then, as much as Atreus is learning about his father, also Kratos is learning about himself, or relearning about himself, and formulating those things to become a better person and a better father yeah, yeah, I agree, I think it's just.
Speaker 2:It's just interesting that they got through multiple script rewrites that you know everyone seemed pretty happy with and they're just like, yeah, we're gonna start this thing over from the ground up and maybe this is for the best as well, maybe because obviously the success of fallout really dictates.
Speaker 2:And then amazon prime as a whole, and we probably got one more piece of news about Amazon itself and they have that secret level show coming out that Kratos is going to be in one of the episodes as part of a Playstation focused episode of that show, which I still don't know what that show is, but I'm still interested to find out. And then we have Dune Prophecy. Dune, dune prophecy got a trailer. Um, best way I can describe this trailer is spooky game of thrones spooky game of thrones.
Speaker 1:Um, it does look technically sound, it looks solid. I mean, I don't have much, I don't. I don't have a lot, I'm just. This is one of those things. It's. I'm going to take the penguin approach. I'm. You know, first you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention, like I kind of want to see this world rounded out, I want to see how much this is going to influence anything. And then you know, vice versa, like which way it's going to work. Yep, and you know, that's why the penguin is working so overtly well right now is because it is its own entity. Yep, but it is such a great lesson and how you, how you understand this operates in the universe. But I have to own this, like we're gonna own this thing as our own, but it's still gonna work inside the confines of the universe.
Speaker 2:But we'll break where we need to break yeah, I mean I I told you when we talked about this show like it's gonna be interesting to see what dune's actual kind of like staying power is and what they're, what what dune's popularity truly is, or if it's just a result of these two really great movies that came out.
Speaker 1:You have all these A-list actors on top.
Speaker 2:Are people really inherently interested enough in the lore of Dune to justify?
Speaker 1:this show Full transparency. Dune's lore is not easy. That is a tough lore.
Speaker 2:It's not like a Marvel thing.
Speaker 1:Or even Star Wars. When we reviewed dune 2 it's why it made dune 1. In my opinion, I still thought dune 1 was close to a master class. In my opinion, I still think it is, but dune 2 made dune 1 at retroactively better because and then vice versa, because dune 1 simplified all that crazy, insane lore and made it. These are the things you need to remember. Once we hit two, it's just like a good video game. We're running like you, don't?
Speaker 2:we're running on the ground yeah, yeah, and so I'm super. I mean, the trailer looked good. Um, like I said, it gave like that game of thrones type of vibe in space. Um, and, like I said, I'm interested to see how it pans out. Um, daredevil. Daredevil got an official release date via New York Comic Con. Obviously, it's a Comic Con, so people are obviously going to leak trailers online and release dates and such. So March 4th is going to be the Daredevil release date and there was another trailer shown, not much different than the first trailer. It still strikes that tone and it just seems like they're going. They recognize what made the netflix show so popular and so good and it feels like they're not mirroring that. But they are trying to capture that um spirit and I think that's a good thing. Yeah, I mean I am.
Speaker 1:It is my favorite character. This is my favorite marvel character that there's ever been. So obviously I, I probably, I probably have a little bit more bias, but I saw Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox kind of talking about the thing that's inherently going to give you at least one leg up. Funny enough that venom's getting these reviews right now, because it just seems like everybody's on the same page of what type of movie they're making. Like that's going to make your movie just the slightest bit better. Let it be the slightest bit better, but at the end of the day, I could not be more excited. I thought this wasn't going to come out for a little longer than that. So march 4th I'll take that any day of the week as well too. I'm chomping at the bitch to see that full HD trailer as well too, but I mean this might be one of the biggest ones they can get for being like not like event television, like serialized television that Disney Plus can probably use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the one, this is the staple. This is going to be the one that propels Disney Plus forward into 2025. It's going to be this show. I don't think there's any doubt about that. It also is to the blade point that we talked about earlier. It does give Marvel a little bit of justification, a little bit of rope, if this Daredevil show is as good as it appears to be, in the sense that this show was also mired by production problems, um, it was rewritten, it was torn down, started, started over from the beginning, like, and that got people really nervous, and now this is the finished product, right, um, but the difference between this, this and blade is, I think, with daredevil I think it was this, for some reason on marvel's part, this hesitancy to to kind of lean on the netflix stuff like they wanted to create something different well, also, at that point there was no sense of don't do anything r-rated for disney, right, don't do anything like that and put that on disney plus.
Speaker 1:That's a big no-no. And then, once we heard deadpool and wolverine was going to be r-rated, and then, obviously, the way it works in hollywood, they, they know, and people talk like studios talk. So, like they probably knew, and like Kevin Feige knew, he was like early, early Deadpool and Wolverine they probably started to show clips after they shot. They were like, ok, this is going to work. And then, obviously, a billion dollars later, they're like oh, do whatever you want R-rated at this point, you can do whatever the heck you want, everybody will be fine with it. So I think there was an element of that as well too, of like understanding we can't do, we do the netflix gritty stuff and like what was the first leaks, that and the original script he wasn't gonna suit up for like four episodes like no, no, like that's that's none of the returning cast.
Speaker 2:We're gonna come back.
Speaker 1:Besides, charlie cock, that was not for you and that's, and I thank god and that's a good idea. If somebody probably walked in the room and looked what the heck are you guys doing?
Speaker 2:Don't overcomplicate.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like what are you. Why are you reinventing the wheel Like this works?
Speaker 2:Literally reinventing the wheel, yeah.
Speaker 1:This works for a reason Just keep doing the thing, keep doing that, bring back, get innovative. Now you get innovative what with what you want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just get everybody back, slot them in and let them keep doing Daredevil. Just keep letting them do Daredevil. So yeah, I'm super excited for this show. And then the last bit of major news that we have to cover because we didn't get to talk about it is Kyle Chandler and Aaron Pierre. Both are official for Lanterns as Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart Thoughts. Outstanding, outstanding. Al Chandler and Aaron Pierre both are official for lanterns as um Hal Jordan and John Stewart Thoughts.
Speaker 1:Outstanding, outstanding. Um, it's funny cause obviously I'm really, really, really excited about Aaron Pierre, to the point where I called it before he was even rumored to be an. I said Aaron, and it was after I watched rebel Ridge. I was like, oh yeah, that that Well. I mean, it's the same kind of concept that I feel for Glenn Powell. He's about to be. He's going to be like one of the next up movie stars as well, too. It sucks. He couldn't do Blade, though Like I feel like being a villain in the MCU on top of that could have helped him a bit Well it might be better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it might be better that he's not at this point. It might be better for him, but I mean nonetheless, aaron Pierre, obviously I was excited. I called that before. The one I was super keen about was Kyle Chandler as Hal Jordan, because I know the approach they're going to take. I know what you're doing, james. You're getting the Justice League Unlimited lineup to be the. It makes all the sense in the world.
Speaker 2:It makes total sense.
Speaker 1:It makes all the sense in the world. That makes complete sense to get the Justice League Unlimited lineup. It's a different approach than we've ever seen before. I mean, we've only gotten one. It's crazy that we've gotten four Avengers movies soon to be six before we're going to get a second Justice League movie with more popular that's a more popular team and it's kind of crazy too, the way.
Speaker 2:If that's the route that he's going and I think it is it is kind of crazy that he's kind of like building it backwards. Yeah, like besides Superman, right, like he has a Superman, which is obviously, I think, by design. Mm-hmm, I think he wanted Superman first, but then he's also kind of building. Now he's going like Like if you look at Justice, like the Justice, this end of the spectrum, and then like green lanterns, like in there in the middle, and then he gets to like martian man, hunter, hawk girl, cyborg, etc. And like he's building that back half and he's leaving the wonder woman, flash and batman spots open.
Speaker 1:And I also think that's by design yep, I think he wants to see how it plays and I think he's going through. The batman one is the. I think the batman one and the wonder woman one are the two that he's super like. I need the Batman one. He needs to nail that Batman one because A Batman's Batman.
Speaker 2:You have another Batman already.
Speaker 1:And B. There's another Batman running that a lot of people, including myself, are like super keen to like that's their favorite Batman. Oh, and Aquaman Aquaman, he hasn't killed yet either, which I think he's going to hold on that I don't think he's going to't think he's gonna. I think he's gonna hold on aquaman for a little bit, just because, I mean, that was the last dc eu movie was aquaman too, so he's probably gonna hold. And jason momoa is like a name, so he's probably gonna hold a bit. But obviously, like I said, that kyle chandler pick is so good, that's such a good pick, it's great because, they're gonna do a little bit of a mentorship aspect of it as well too.
Speaker 1:I think that, think that's so cool. And the true detective aspect, and I mean, look at his approach to Peacemaker. Every time I see, like you know, the Shire fans like on Twitter being, like you know, he's going to ruin the DCU. I said when would we ever get that idea that he was going to do that? I mean, he turned in one of the best Marvel movies. He turned in two of the best Marvel movies that we've ever seen. Then he just follows up with the Suicide Squad and, to that point, the best movie in the DCEU, right In the DCEU. That's the best movie which the Suicide Squad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:And then he follows it up with the character that we hated from that movie in full 180s that character with John Cena. 180s that character, yeah. And then he goes back and makes guardians 3 and now we're concerned. I don't understand, I don't get it, yeah yeah, yeah, it's kind of ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I'm full at the point, and especially once I get that first trailer for superman, which he said it's not close enough to be like you, but it's, it is close enough to like get myself excited. That's what he said at the York Comic Con. I mean it's going to be the Super Bowl right. That's what I'm assuming. February for July yeah, it's either that or he's going to do the holiday season. He's going to do November.
Speaker 2:I think they're just going to hold it for the Super Bowl. Yeah, the Super Bowl would be.
Speaker 1:That's a good first, it's a Superman movie they're gonna and I guarantee you they're gonna market the heck out of that movie. They're gonna, and like how, and make sure it's like this, especially now. Yeah, this is the hard stop. This is it. Like this is the new direction forward. But I mean, on the green lantern front, like that shows like you made a good point like something's looming in the winds, like this is like this is intricate setup that I think I think he's doing, like he's like there's some conspiracy which I think is going to end up being the black lantern core. Like just one murder that the green lanterns have to get the guardians. I don't know. Like can you guys go check that out?
Speaker 2:no, we don't want to do it yeah, I, I think it's super smart and, like I said, I just continue to be encouraged by um, by what he's building over there, um, because dot dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot. We are finally going to talk about Joker 2.
Speaker 2:Joker 2, fully due. Released a few weeks ago in theaters, the much-anticipated sequel to Joker that starred, obviously, Joaquin Phoenix won him an Oscar, accolades galore, billion dollars, critical acclaim, you know. And that naturally led to you know, does he the disease of more. In the case of Warner brothers was like hey, todd Phillips, can you make me, can you make us another one of these? And Todd Phillips said I don't really want to, um, and they were like here's $200 million. And Todd Fellows said all right, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:Which I still think he didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2:No, and this movie has one of the most interesting production arcs I think I've ever seen. It stars obviously, joaquin Phoenix returns and, most notably, lady Gaga enters the foray as Harley Quinn. I think this movie again had that oscillation of anticipation, in the sense that we're doing Joker and Harley Cool. I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:We're gonna do a musical that's where you lost some people you lost some people.
Speaker 1:You didn't lose me because I thought I thought that could be a super cool idea I don't understand, because of all the comic book characters that you can find and if you were going to do a musical, the joker is the number one choice that you would ever think to do. That that's the, in my opinion. That that was like. I was immediately like, okay, now I'm actually really into this. This that makes the most sense out of anything. Yeah, um, but it just takes away your modern male sensibilities.
Speaker 2:If there's music yeah, we got that first trailer, which was fine, but also was the trailer where I saw and I went and I went, I I don't know. I like people were freaking out about the, the shot with the, the lipstick over the, the jail window, and people were like this is cinema and I'm like is it? I was like I don't know what this movie is. Um, and then the what's? I'm trying to piece together.
Speaker 1:Timeline second trailer happened. Yes, oh no, was this? No, no, the todd phillips stuff yes, the todd phillips stuff.
Speaker 2:When they were like, oh, isn't it cool, you're making a musical, and he's like it's not a musical and I'm like isn't it guys? I think that's a musical. Um, the todd phillips stuff, yeah. So, and what we later found out is that he refused collaboration with, with DC.
Speaker 1:Yeah, With gun and Safran. I think they only said the one.
Speaker 2:that one liaison was the only one he was kind of in contact with, but like gun and gun and Peter Safran, he was like which goes goes to my bigger conspiracy theory about this movie that I think we both agree on, Um, that we'll talk about when we start talking about the movie. Um, then there was the, the Venice film festival thing, this movie screen, and people were like, oh, this movie is no good, Like just fly out. Like, like people were like this movie is not good and I'm like how bad could it be? You know, Um, and then you know, just as the week's days started approaching, I'm like I don't know if I'm that excited for this movie. Like, I'm just not.
Speaker 1:Things started getting weird and it was the variety interview with, or was it GQ or variety? I think it was variety, yeah, and it was Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix and they everything felt so weird. It's like they didn't want to be, there Exactly Like they were. They like knew something was up and I know, Joaquin Phoenix is a weird dude.
Speaker 2:We're not.
Speaker 1:I love Joaquin Phoenix.
Speaker 2:We're not disputing that he's a weird dude, but I love him, yeah, he's great, he's a great actor. Um, so like, and you never really know, like, is he just kind of like? This is just kind of like his, his kind of tone, that he's weird. And then we saw it obviously on different days from each other and um, before we get into that, just real quick, uh, rotten tomatoes it's never.
Speaker 2:It's either a very good thing yeah with rotten tomatoes, where the critics and the audience are aligned, it's can be either a really good thing or a really bad thing, and in this case it's a really bad thing. Um, critics and audiences alike. Um 32 on both sides, audience and critics nobody likes this movie. Um, I have a theory on why that is as well. Um, and then the box office has been abysmal yeah, I can't.
Speaker 1:That's the part I can't believe it. I cannot believe it um.
Speaker 2:So the movie was budgeted around 200 million dollars. You know you typically will double that for marketing, so you're looking at like a 400 to 500 million dollar movie. Um, it made 50 up to this date. This date, october 22nd 2024 um 56 million dollars domestically on just a shade under 200 million dollars worldwide. It stands to be one of the biggest sequel bombs in history, if not the biggest sequel bomb in history. Um, it stands to be one of Warner Brothers' most financially lost movies ever. Warner Brothers, obviously, a studio that cannot afford this type of disaster. And they've hit one.
Speaker 2:It's opening weekend under both the Marvels and Morbius, for kind of just perspective on a movie that, like we said, the first one, made a billion dollars and will release digitally on October 29th, which is next Tuesday, spelling the end of its theatrical run, which is crazy. That being said, this movie, I didn't enjoy it. First and foremost which I don't think I've ever outright said on here about any movie that we've reviewed that I just flat out didn't enjoy it. Technically it is still sound, the performances are good. I think Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix are both really, really good in this movie, but I just didn't enjoy it and, if you'll, if you'll pardon me to, to explicit tag this episode for one specific sentence. This movie is a massive fuck you from todd phillips to people who just enjoyed that first movie and and took certain messaging away from the arthur fleck character that he clearly never intended for people to take and in a lot of respects, it's kind of a fuck you to just people who expected this to be like a comic book movie and a Joker movie because he clearly was not interested in the character at all in the sense of like the Joker mythos as far as like DC comics go. That was never his intention and, yeah, like I, like I just don't think he wanted he just you know he made this this was a statement movie from todd phillips to be like no, this guy was never meant to be idolized or revered or respected.
Speaker 2:He is a loser and he deserves to be treated like a loser and by the end of the movie he is a loser ultimately and he deserves. You know he is, he is a. He is not this mastermind who is playing the public like a fiddle when in fact, the the public is playing him like a fiddle is what is what the second movie is about. He is a. He is a mascot, apparent, you know, essentially he's a mascot for everyone he comes in contact with, whether it's the. He's a literal mascot at the at arkham asylum yeah, first of all for the guards. He's. He's a there's no other way to the. He's a literal mascot at the at arkham asylum yeah, first of all for the guards he's. He's a. There's no other way to say he's a mascot for them. He gets kicked around. He's tell me a joke, arthur, yada, yada.
Speaker 2:Like everything that the end of that first movie built up, todd phillips deconstructs within the first half hour of this movie, in the sense that, like, he's this icon people, you know, he's this magnanimous, kind of like charismatic. No, he's. He sucks, you know, and people took that. You know. When he kills murray at the end of the first one, it's kind of run for a gag. In the second one, when they're like oh, tell us a joke, arthur. Like it's like everything he did in the first movie was for nothing.
Speaker 1:No, I look at it from this perspective, it's the it's, you know, it's bouncing off what your Arthur, like everything he did in the first movie was for nothing.
Speaker 1:No, I look at it from this perspective. It's, you know, it's bouncing off what your perspective was. I'm just going a little further. Would you ever ask Martin Scorsese to make a Goodfellas 2? You're not. You know, outside of the Kill Bills you're not asking Tarantino to make sequels to his movies. You know Nolan had a superhero IP outside of that. You're not asking him to make sequels except for me, for tenant 2, but you're not. You know, nobody's gonna be like where's the prestige too? Because it's, in a way it feels almost disrespectful like I made this high cinema thing. So why are you asked like? You're not gonna ask go, go make a passion of the christ 2? No, they are making a Passion of the Christ 2. No, it's a remake. Can I count? Is it blasphemy to call it a remake? But you kind of see, my point is that it's a movie that never needed a sequel.
Speaker 1:Todd Phillips was probably sitting there like I got my point across, I did the thing and I guarantee you that Warner Brothers walked in and like put Bruce Wayne at the end of the movie becoming Batman. He's like do I have to? And he's like they're like yeah, you do have to. He's like fine, you got everything out of the first movie. So he's like why am I even waste? Give me money to do something else. Why are you? I don't want the second movie. So it just feels like somebody that does not want to be directing this movie and I genuinely think todd phillips is probably because what was the thing that he was on some ranch on the opening weekend of the movie. He wasn't even like yeah, he was I, I, he knew what was going to happen and we kind of agreed. He intentionally did everything in this movie on purpose to get that reaction yeah, and this movie is just boring.
Speaker 2:There you go. We could talk about the plot, but I don't really want to because nothing happens for two hours.
Speaker 1:It's kind of crazy. It's such a standstill film. Because nothing, nothing, so what? Let me ask you what's the goal of a film which goal?
Speaker 2:the goal of the movie itself or todd phillips goal? No, the goal of a movie itself, oh the goal of a movie is to take you on the journey, to tell a story.
Speaker 1:Exactly what's the story of this movie, I mean?
Speaker 2:it's literally. This movie could have been.
Speaker 1:See, not to cut you off, but your struggle to even answer that question was exactly what I needed to know. That's the exact thing I needed to know.
Speaker 2:The way the story of this movie goes and the way it's framed, it makes it seem like this movie could have been a 45-minute episode of Law Order.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about like movies like you know, 12, angry man, the trial of the chicago, seven. Like films like that. Like you should have made that the whole cell of this movie. It's the trial of arc of the fleck. Like that should have been the overt cell of this whole movie. Should have been that. And then you have, and then what you could have restructured was had this, you know. Now you have your new character into this franchise. You have Harley. I don't know why they wanted to take away so badly that she is the psychiatrist and play it as like a aha moment later in the movie. Why not just have her actually be the psychiatrist in this movie? So her character goes on a definitive arc. Her character does not change the whole movie. That's the same character. There's no arc for her. The whole movie she's the same character. There's no arc for her. The whole movie she's the same exact person. I don't know a character that goes on an arc. This movie, nobody. Arthur doesn't. Arthur doesn't change. Arthur's still Arthur. He doesn't change the whole movie.
Speaker 2:No, and it's supposed to be this kind of like big, I guess this big twist moment where he's like I don't want to be the Joker anymore and like okay.
Speaker 1:But we knew that, but we knew that the whole movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to your point, if you're going to build this movie, it's part musical part, courtroom drama part I don't know.
Speaker 1:Now say that again. Part musical part courtroom drama, I don't know what Joker movie that I never want to see that. Those were the. That's the elements that got me out of the seat.
Speaker 2:But the elements, the courtroom drama elements, don't work. Well, that's the elements that got me out of the seat, but the elements, the courtroom drama elements, don't work. Because what makes? You know, I'm thinking of, like you said, like to your point, like 12 angry men you're talking about.
Speaker 1:You know, there've been some great um courtroom drama films, you know sense of a woman Like I'm thinking like, um, what's the one with, uh, what's the one with Philadelphia, with Denzel and Tom Hanks? We still have to do our Denzel and Tom Hanks episode I mean A Few Good Men is obviously the pinnacle of this.
Speaker 2:And what makes those movies so good is, and what makes the courtroom drama kind of enthralling is you don't know which way it's going to go With this movie. He's guilty. There was never a doubt in my mind of how the trial was going to go. There's never a doubt in my mind of how the trial was going to go. There's never a doubt in my mind that, oh, is he going to. I think the scene where he fires his lawyer and jokers up is the moment where you're supposed to feel like he's going to do something.
Speaker 2:He's going to win the people over again. No, he's going to. This is where he becomes the joker. He's going to do some joker stuff.
Speaker 1:And this movie is weirdly short in that because or not even because this movie's 220. I think it's like 218. Yeah, it's long, yeah, it's long, so that your counterpiece would be the jury itself. Like nobody on that jury was, you could have easily thrown one person on that jury was out on that night when he killed mary franklin. He went out. Nobody on that jury was like that jury had no soul. They had no life. They had no soul.
Speaker 2:I don't think you even see like a shot of them really in the movie.
Speaker 1:It's just they turned to them at the end.
Speaker 2:And then there's this there's this moment where I think, like I said, there's this moment where he, where he jokers up, he fires his lawyer. He comes in the courtroom the next day, dresses the joker and you're supposed to think like this is, this is the moment, right, this is where he turns it up. And then he goes into this weird foghorn leghorn attorney caricature.
Speaker 1:That's not even that funny, but you want to talk about time wasters like what are we doing? Like what are we wasting our time with this for? Like where is this getting us? We know all these things.
Speaker 2:We know what happened? Yeah, he has. And then he I guess, like the big, the big aha moment of the movie, the big cathartic moment the movie is when gary puddles comes in and he tells his his story of being terrified of arthur and arthur saying like I spared you this, that and the other thing. And it's supposed to be this moment for arthur where, like he realizes he sucks, but again he turns it into this like weird foghorn leghorn, like let me tell you something Puddle Is that your real name. And A it's not funny, b it doesn't do anything?
Speaker 1:Exactly that's my issue. Nothing changed, no, and to your point, we already know what's going to happen. We know he's going to lose and the same thing we knew he was going to lose the trial.
Speaker 2:We know something's gonna happen at the end to get him out of the situation again and you know, ultimately what happens is. So he has this big moment where, like he becomes, he becomes the joker again and he feels pretty good about himself. And then he goes back to arkham asylum. He's dressed as the joker. He says in the trial he said all these disparaging things about the, the guards at arkham. So he gets back to arkham as the joker and they it's implied that they sexually assault him. Um, and they pick, and that moment is where he apparently realizes he doesn't want to be the joker anymore. I, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2:It's like again, like this is todd phillips, literally rebuking the fact that, like this character, this, this man, was never meant to be idolized as some sort of hero or anti-hero or otherwise he is. He is this representation and this symbol of how society just doesn't care about people like arthur flick. And he thought, like everyone, everyone in his life and everyone in this movie that he thinks, reveres him or cares for him ultimately kicks him in the nuts by the end of this movie. Every single one of them, from Brendan Gleeson, who he had a decent relationship with, literally is the one who drags him into the bathroom and the guards it's implied again that they sexually assault him. His attorney gives up on him after she realizes he he sucks, yeah. Um, the public who, the public of gotham that that were kind of like in his corner, um, turn on him, essentially, except for that one guy at the end that rescues him. Um, and and harley right turns on him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's implied that she never even really gave a shit about him, and I mean we can shift to Harley for a little bit. Like I said, the performances are good. This movie is technically sound.
Speaker 2:This movie looks great.
Speaker 1:It's just character-wise. That is such a confusing approach to her character that I've seen, Because there's no dissent. The reason that his character works in the first one is because you literally witness the dissent all the way down to the murder. There's no dissent for her. She's the same character through and through the aha, I gotcha moment for her.
Speaker 2:Okay you know what I mean. Yeah, which is the aha moment for her is and we're spoiling this movie, by the way, because who cares um? The aha moment is that it's revealed through arthur's attorney that harley was never this crazy inmate who burned her parents house down. She was, she volunteered to go to arkham asylum for, like a character study, essentially right um, because she does have a background in psychiatry, she is well off, she's rich, um, and it's implied that she just kind of went there just for a, for a, for a hoot yeah, because she was obsessed with the joker, but also not seem to care that much about him.
Speaker 2:The ending.
Speaker 1:see, this is the thing. Remember how days before, like when the press started seeing this movie, everybody was freaking about out the ending. I thought it was going to be some trippy musical sequence where, like, batman showed up and some like, can I spoil it? Yeah, he just gets stabbed. He gets stabbed by the Joker, but who subsequently, we believe, will become the actual in that universe, this actual Joker?
Speaker 2:But who cares? Because none of this matters. It doesn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1:But also to that point, the biggest party foul is the way they left off Harley's character. That was the biggest party foul even first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what was that?
Speaker 1:I don't understand the whole. What happened to?
Speaker 2:her Because you're not supposed to. I guess you're supposed to feel something for that scene at the stairwell when Arthur's like we can be together and Harley's like get lost, you're not the Joker. And I'm like what I'm just like again, like it's a bastardization of the Harley Quinn character in the sense that, like there is no world where Harley Quinn can be in a movie like this, or not even a movie like this, like any type of movie, you put the harley quinn character in a movie. It should not.
Speaker 1:I should not be able to say you can take harley quinn out of the, out of this movie, and the movie doesn't change you can replace her with anybody.
Speaker 2:That character that character is built, that character is literally was created in the 90s. That character was literally created to be magnetic.
Speaker 1:When she's on the screen she's this tour de force of like unhinged devotion, and then later she matures and she, you know that character goes on a really interesting arc Historically and the first part of that is what you need to see in that movie. And, like I said, it's the descent to being like I'm your psychiatrist, but why do I also? Why am I falling in love with like this doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2:But you know why that doesn't work in this universe? Because he's not charismatic. No, it's not.
Speaker 1:Joaquin Phoenix, is it? It's the way that this character Again, this is Todd Phillips usurping everything from the first movie, because he easily could have tipped the scale to get him there, but he just said he's not supposed to be, I'm trying to tell you guys something. You guys aren't listening.
Speaker 2:He's not supposed to be that trying to tell you guys something. You guys aren't listening. He's not supposed to be, he's not supposed to be. Um, and that's the point. Like you wouldn't be able to do that cell with the harley character because you couldn't believably get there, like you couldn't believably get to that character falling for this character, because he's just not. He's just not him, he's just not charismatic, he's not because the Joker, historically in the comics obviously a psychopath, sociopath has this magnetism, yes, this charismatic nature to him that draws in his gang, the Joker gang. It draws in Harley for a long, long time. Right, it draws In a weird way. It draws in Batman, batman, yep, you know Joker has this kind of, you know, magnetism to him that arthur fleck just does not have, was never meant to have.
Speaker 1:um, and I think that's that courtroom scene is is emblematic of that where you're supposed to think here he comes, here's the joker, the jokerness because if they fully committed to this movie in the way that you know, let's try to do everything you know to make sure this is the best movie possible like you would have been in that courtroom scene, like that jury wouldn't. You would have had the reaction shots of the jury, like listening. But like I said, you, he turns into this like not joaquin himself, the movie dictates that he turned in. This weird, like it's so off-putting, like it's like there's no even, like it's like there's no even, like it's not funny. There's no, exactly, there's no ironic charisma to it, it's just weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, You're just. You can check the peep, the reaction shots of the people in the courtroom. They're like, yeah, what?
Speaker 1:is. What is this? Yeah, this movie is like a check engine light, but this something's up.
Speaker 2:And I don't want to go all Heath Ledger about this, but, like, if you take, if you took the Heath Ledger Joker and ported him into that courtroom scene, right, just not even throw the script out, it's just the Heath Ledger, heath Ledger Joker doing Heath Ledger Joker things in that courtroom, the scene is probably way better, right, Like, because that character is believably charismatic. You know, character is believably charismatic. You know, to the point where people watch the dark knight and they're like um, um, and that's how people kind of walked away from the first joker movie is. They're like this guy's making points.
Speaker 2:and then todd phillips was like whoa, whoa whoa, whoa no, no, first of all, he was never supposed to make points. He was supposed to be the symbol of a failed society and you guys idolized him for that. And now I'm going to kick this character that you guys got behind, which I mean all the power to him, which is fine, because I also think it was a mistake for people to be idolizing Arthur Fleck and be like, no, he's right.
Speaker 1:Like no, he's not right. That was a crazy time.
Speaker 2:That was insane. Like he's not right. Um, so todd phillips just took this movie and he took 200 million dollars and was like I'm gonna kick this character for two and a half hours and then I'm gonna leave him on the floor dead, literally on the floor dead and then, after the movie came out, it was this todd phillips being like he was never the joker, and I'm like then, why did you?
Speaker 2:why'd you make the first movie then? Why'd you call it Joker? Then you could have just made this movie about this guy who became a mass murderer Because that movie wouldn't have made a billion dollars, correct? That's it. So I mean this movie is.
Speaker 1:I mean by one, our new trend of our one word summary of this movie. What's your one word summary of this movie? Boring, boring of our one word summary of this movie. What's your one word summary?
Speaker 2:of this movie, boring Boring Mine is perplexing. I was going to say confusing yeah.
Speaker 1:Confusing was the other word Perplexed by this movie, top to bottom pre-production, post-production. You know everything about this movie is I'm perplexed of every single decision and approach. The only thing I have clarity on, in our opinion, is that todd phillips was like no, I, why am, why am I here? I, why am I making this movie?
Speaker 2:I did not want to do this and we've gone, I don't know 30, 35 minutes talking about this movie. We didn't touch upon the musical aspect of it at all that should.
Speaker 1:That should speak volumes.
Speaker 2:And there's a few musical numbers in this the, the mountain one.
Speaker 1:The mountain one is good, that's the best one.
Speaker 2:It's Lady Gaga doing, it's the closest she gets to what we thought this movie could have been Yep, where her range goes up, her octaves go up and she really starts giving it the Lady Gaga You're like. Oh, I thought when he does the Sinatra song in the interview was the closest he got to Walk the Line it to.
Speaker 1:Walk the Line. That's also the closest he got to the first Joker movie. In my opinion, too, that's the closest dip back into what I remembered that character from 2019 as I did like that when he does the Sinatra song.
Speaker 2:I thought that was good. But again, most of the musical bits in this are largely forgettable For a movie. Whether Toddips wants to admit it's a musical or not, um, for a movie.
Speaker 1:That was also crazy that he just would not admit that this movie, this movie had music. This is a musical. It is this takes breaks to have musical.
Speaker 2:That's a musical, yeah it takes breaks to do these, you know, really intricate, really psych, psychologically confusing kind of which I thought if you would have made the whole movie that could have been really, really cool.
Speaker 1:Like I said, what other character better to do it than an established movie franchise? That, if you're going to do the second one, what an approach to do a musical.
Speaker 2:Like I like the intercuts to like the Joker and Harley like the talk show, which kind of like dives into his psyche of like how much he attaches to like the murray barlett thing. Like that he's imagining him and harley having like their own talk show. Like that is a direct kind of like psychological link to what happens at the end of the first one and I think that's really interesting. But they just don't do anything nothing happens with it.
Speaker 2:um, I mean, it's teased. It's teased that she going to turn on him because in one of those instances she shoots him and he's like that's not funny and that, weirdly enough, is the closest this movie ever gets to any sort of Joker-Harley fun-ness is when she shoots him.
Speaker 1:Oh, that might be the best point that you made. That Joker-Harley dynamic Doesn't work. It doesn't work and it's just. It's borderline, just it's just. It doesn't feel like it's needed for a movie that that should be a crutch that you lean on and it's not earned. No, it's not at all, and that's why the ending of this movie, not the ending ending, that's why the Harley ending of this movie is so confusing.
Speaker 2:Like she shows up on screen, like within what? The first like 20 minutes, and they're like instantly in love, right, and you're like where did this come from?
Speaker 1:like this isn't they try to play on it a little bit that his, that arthur himself, like the women in his life, how closely he attaches themselves to the women because of his mother, which is fine, sure, which works.
Speaker 1:But like she also weirdly like just falls for him like instantly, which is not historically how the so my question do we know because I'm trying to remember do we know if she was obsessed with him out of the gate, like before he got there, if she was just doing that character study without because she obviously she wasn't banking on him going to that, to that class?
Speaker 2:right. Yeah, it's never explained, it's it's. It's left openly ambiguous whether she actually even cared for him at all. I mean, obviously she didn't care for Arthur, but it's it's. It's also not very clear whether she was even in on the Joker character or as if she was just doing this as part of like a big psychological study. I think if you build this movie in the sense where the climax of the movie is like, I think this movie in an alternate universe, where Todd Phillips actually wanted to make a good movie is, the movie is essentially cut a between the courtroom drama and be instead of all these puzzling Arkham asylum scenes. You make the Arkham asylum scenes just Joker and Harley interviews. Like you make her. You actually make her his psychiatrist Exactly, you actually make her his psychiatrist and Exactly.
Speaker 2:You actually make her his psychiatrist and you have these scenes where they're kind of she's trying to first like crack him and, you know, treat him like a patient and then, slowly but surely, she starts falling for him because he's this weirdly and you fall in love through the song yes, and some stark, dark, twisted fantasy, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you intersperse that with the courtroom drama and you can still do all the stuff at the end where he gets broke. But in this alternate universe he would get broken out, and by the time he gets broken out he's all in, he's all in as the Joker.
Speaker 1:Or if you're going to do this split personality like kill Arthur Fleck to become the Joker and that's it. The Joker has no identity. That's always who I've been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you can do that and still not have the character be like quote unquote idolized. You still make it clear that he's a bad guy, you still make it clear that he's a villain, but make him the Joker, right, and I'd love that. What you said right then is like the perfect way that you could have done it. And when that explosion happens and he gets knocked to the ground, arthur Fleck is dead at that moment and he re. He's reborn as the Joker and that's all he ever is and that's the end of it. Yep, and then you conceivably don't even need to see the character ever again. No, and you just leave it at that.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I think that two of them and like she's fully bought in, like her site, and she goes on his arc from the first movie in a little bit of a different way and he goes on his movie that or his arc from the second movie that he naturally should have went on. Um, it's like that quote that says you know that tarantino talks about like I just get my pen to the paper, the characters will lead the pen down the paper yeah, like this movie is a definition of like you're trying to like it's trying to turn you off the road as much as it can manually Like.
Speaker 1:that should be automatic.
Speaker 2:That's literally what it is. It's like it's Todd Phillips, is literally like hanging over us, being like you want to feel this. I'm going to make you feel this. You want to. You want this character to go this way. I'm going to purposely make him go this way to spite you essentially.
Speaker 2:And you know my, you know my, through line with all of these movies that I review, is asking the question who is this movie for? And I don't know. Not for me, it's for you, it's not for. It's not for musical fans, it's not for musical fans. It's not for comic book movie fans. It's not for comic book movie fans.
Speaker 1:It's not for people who like the first one.
Speaker 2:No, it's not for people who didn't like the first one. Yeah, it's, it's it. It's this movie's for todd phillips and this movie is for todd phillips. Yes, yes, he, he, he had and, like I said, in a weird way, I have to respect it. That and that's what I said too.
Speaker 1:I said if you're gonna do it, commit, commit to the commit to the bit because I mean he's never gonna work for warner brothers again, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:He might not work for a while.
Speaker 1:He I have a. I have a.
Speaker 2:I have a sick feeling in my stomach that he's, that he's done, he might get blackballed yeah, which would be kind of it, you know, for the guy that made the hangover and road trip and the first joker movie like it's, it's, you know, I guess this is the only way this could have could have ended. Is this guy you know? He, he? He not even went for it. It was just a sense of like. It's so crazy to me that that nobody saw it coming, like if this was his intention.
Speaker 1:Maybe he's the, maybe he was the joke, maybe he was the joker all along like if no, the joker is the friends you make along the way, and which subsequently wasn't harley in this movie for some reason if people, someone, some, someone at wonder brother somewhere, read this script and was like it looks great.
Speaker 1:You know like no one read this script no, I guarantee you they read the script and well they, they like, skimmed through the script. They saw joker harley. They said, good, go make another billion we're worried about. Like we got other stuff to worry about, go ahead, that's a free. I guarantee you, in their mind they're like oh, that's a free billion, we don't gotta worry, that's a free billion.
Speaker 2:That's at least like a free 700 million, we're good and it also makes sense that you know, I know people made a lot of the the him refusing any type of input from jamesn or Peter Safran. But it also makes sense because they were probably like, hey, man, we're going to try to help you make a good movie and Todd Phillips was like no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I don't need your help. I'm not interested in making a good movie. Sorry, guys, and they were probably also. He probably had a position like a leverage situation too where he's like a Scorsese, nolan Spielberg type of power. When you get that B, when you get that B on the dollars. Things like that tend to happen for you.
Speaker 2:It's the perfect recipe for him to do this, because no one could tell him. No, he was going to make this movie and again I want to reiterate that he got great performances out of Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix. He really, really did. The performances across the board are really good. Brendan Gleeson is really good in this movie.
Speaker 1:The guy that plays Harvey Dent. He's good in this movie as well. He becomes Two-Face at the end. I thought he was just sitting there, shocked.
Speaker 2:Well, half of his face was burned from the explosion.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought he was just sitting there. His whole face was just covered in like the dust, no, like half of his face was like burned and he's two-faced now. But what Todd Phillips just like threw that in was like an extra, like just fucking Well you know, what would have been better If he didn't do it, if he just, like the explosion went off and he was just he like wiped his face off. He's like I'm just a lawyer, I'm not. I'm not a psychopathic killer.
Speaker 2:And yeah, like you said, Arthur gets stabbed. At the end he's left dead in Arkham Asylum by the. And then this other Joker offscreen cuts the smile and gives himself the old smile with the knife.
Speaker 1:Now. Okay Now, because this is the last thing I will address. Can everybody relax? I thought this ending of this movie was like the worst thing that ever happened in cinema. Yeah, no, People were gassing that ending like it was the worst thing that had ever happened in history.
Speaker 2:Well, because people gaslit themselves into being like this is my Joker, damn it, you don't treat him like this. And I left it and I'm like I'm glad he's dead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but, and like I left it and I'm like I'm glad he's dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but much of the lives that that second joker saves from him being dead, yeah. Like I don't. I don't care that arthur's dead.
Speaker 1:Like I wasn't particularly bothered I care for that character went out the window yeah, I lost all.
Speaker 2:I never had sympathy for him but, like I, I lost all interest in that character within like the first like 35 minutes of this movie. Like I'm just like, all right, I'm, I'm over this. Like I, I lost all interest in that character within like the first like 35 minutes of this movie. Like I'm just like, all right, I'm, I'm over this, like I'm over the shtick here. Like what this character is like, I don't care anymore. So I'm glad he's dead and I'm I'm really interested in never returning to this weird not batman universe ever again.
Speaker 1:You should have just made the first one and gave the money elsewhere. Yeah, and just left it. Just left it. Very confusing. This is a perplexing film, I'm done. I've never been left stunned by like.
Speaker 2:I just left. I got up and I left and I'm just like, all right, that's it, he's dead. Good, thank you, like I said, he's dead. Good, thank you, like again, like I said. And just just a massive repudiation of of this franchise, right, franchise, quote unquote by todd phillips. That's what that's. That's what the second movie is. Is he, was he slammed the door on it's funny like he. He really had no interest in the joker character, so like I feel like he slammed the door on any any's funny. He really had no interest in the Joker character, so I feel like he slammed the door on any Joker thing for years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Barry Keoghan's probably punching air a bit, no, or unless they want that specifically to get that taste out of the mouth. And Barry Keoghan's becoming uber famous by the day. Maybe, but I just feel like this movie, I just don't think it's for Batman Part 2, I still don't think they're going to pull on it, unless they do your idea where they do the Hannibal Lecter thing and he's in Arkham and him and Batman are essentially kind of working together a bit before he gets broken out by the end.
Speaker 2:That'd be kind of cool, but at the same time I feel like people are going to be like jokered out, like they're like ah, you know especially after Jared Leto, and then this yeah, I mean he's. You know we can. I guess we can just end the like. There was this debate for a little while.
Speaker 1:Ledger Joaquin, it's over unfortunately it's over, and it's not Joaquin's fault either no, it's not, but it's over, it's over.
Speaker 2:And it's not Joaquin's fault either. No, it's not, but it's over, it's over. Um, yeah, cesar Romero, I, it's man, it's. I would say it's a shame, but it's. Cameron Monaghan pretty good, not bad, not a bad joker channel. Favorite Cameron Monaghan. We love Cameron Monaghan here.
Speaker 1:Um, that's it yeah, I don't even want to give out awards this movie doesn't deserve any awards.
Speaker 2:I mean any awards that we could give. It would be, you know, again, performances there wasn't it wasn't funny. There wasn't any. That's the crazy part about it, like even like going back. I don't want to keep going back to Ledger's Joker, but like that character's funny yeah character's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what did he say when he's walking in with the, with the bomb? Yeah, he's like are you, are you nuts?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, gamble here skip that.
Speaker 1:He does when he, like the first bomb doesn't go off at the hospital.
Speaker 2:He's like oh well, oh god oh, gamble has a boot, won't be able to afford for his grandma. Whatever he says about Gamble's grandma, he's like enough with the clown.
Speaker 1:He's like ah, let's not blow things out of proportion here like that character's funny, but then he gets those little fits of rage oh yeah yeah, that's the difference.
Speaker 2:And then this Joaquin's Joker gets up there in the courtroom and he's just again, he turns into gambit for some reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was that? I don't know I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm just like, oh, this is supposed to be like his joker moment and he's just he's failing because arthur's playing. Yes, yes, arthur is he. He is portraying the idea of the joker in the way that people think he's supposed to be the joker, because the joker doesn't exist right?
Speaker 1:am I understanding the movie? Let's get out of here, man. I don't, I don't, I don't want to talk about this anymore yeah, we're.
Speaker 2:We're gearing up to talk about a good movie next week.
Speaker 1:Yeah venom part three knolls in this one.
Speaker 2:I think I said I think I said last week, like when we were doing all those like fake Joker 2 subtitles, and I think I really I think I said Joker 2, the joke's on us it was, yeah, it was. Joker 2 the joke.
Speaker 1:The joke was on us actually Joker, joker, folia, you idiot we were the folia do all along, lord.
Speaker 2:I'm glad it's over. I didn't think I didn't you know what?
Speaker 1:oh god what. The fact that venom is going to be a better movie than joker was not on my big non-zero chance that that venom at least.
Speaker 2:There's a one hundred. There's a non-zero chance that it's an actually better movie. There's a 100 percent chance it's going to be more enjoyable that's what I mean.
Speaker 1:The early reviews are saying that this movie slaps a bit I didn't think going back to joker quick like I.
Speaker 2:I remember my famous, my famous line after after the flash. After we saw the flash and we reviewed it, my famous line was like I'm glad it's done. I feel the same exact way about this joker movie like I'm glad it's over, I'm glad the discourse is done, I'm glad this character is dead, I'm like I'm glad I just don't have to hear about it anymore, like that's. That's where I'm at like, because this movie got the first one, got such like this following from people being like this is the best thing they've ever done, because it's so against the grain and fuck society. And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like. So I'm glad that Todd Phillips did this and was like no, this guy sucks and he deserves to be dead. But yes, we are going to talk about Venom next week. It is out this Thursday, thursday, friday, so we'll try and see it at some point and review it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, noel's in this one, noel's. In this one. We can't say who plays him yet, but we know.
Speaker 2:We know, I think everybody knows, don't they no?
Speaker 1:it's leaked, but let's save the surprise for those who don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I'm glad that they specifically listened to this podcast when we were like, put Noel in it, you cowards. And then they did, and then the first trailer came out and I'm like, oh no, they're not going to do Noel, are they?
Speaker 1:And then they said full send Noel. I can't believe that they're going to do Noel for Spider-Man 4.
Speaker 2:I know, and Donny Cates, who's the creator of Noel, was like he's like I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty excited for, like what they're gonna do with Nolan.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, cause that's what I keep hearing about.
Speaker 2:Nope, that's all I'll say yeah, this movie might be fun. This movie's gonna be fun, but this movie might be good did you see Tom Hardy at the premiere?
Speaker 1:he had like a shirt on, he just had like a. He just had like a polo on. He's like guys, I'm here, showed up, tom Hardy, march Safe.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:In a weird way, I'm in now.
Speaker 2:See, you came all the way around. You came all the way around. I've been on this bandwagon since day one. I think the first one after the first half hour is quite fun. Yeah, the second one has moments of fun, but I don't think it's as good as the first one.
Speaker 1:No, the second one is a post-credits scene. It's a pre-credits scene With Carnage in it, with Carnage For four seconds.
Speaker 2:Not you father, you father.
Speaker 1:Maybe one of the greatest jokes in any film.
Speaker 2:See that Carnage should not be funnier than the.
Speaker 1:Joker. Yeah, that's tough that, but he was for some reason. Um. Apparently the third act of this movie is just nuts amazing you want to get nuts let's get nuts. Put michael keaton in account. Oh, there's a. There's not a zero chance that he's in this, that he's not in this movie.
Speaker 2:I don't know how I got here but I think it has something to do with spider-Man though.
Speaker 1:How many times are you going to use that Michael Keaton? Michael Keaton just hosted SNL. He did Venom Horse, venom Fish, venom Fish, venom Frog Venom Frog is for sure in this. Show us how I drew for him who we thought was going to be Noel. Still what. Still what she was, but the guy who they got yeah, um, reese Fonz is gonna show up in this.
Speaker 2:Who is he? Who's here?
Speaker 1:who's here? Who's he, who's he? Ah, venom, I can't wait. Venom, venom you think? Venom's gonna do another song.
Speaker 2:I hope so. Venom is the third movie of Venom Venom, venom, venom, venom, venom. Toxin is in this, I think, so what.
Speaker 1:Whoever that cop is, I'm in, it doesn't matter, I'm in.
Speaker 2:Also that cop like they teased the cop at the end of the second one, to be, like, I guess, the main villain of the third one. But now it just appears he's going to be like confined to a prison cell, being like the symbiotes are coming. He was right. Like the symbiotes are coming, he was right.
Speaker 1:That guy was a psycho. He was right.
Speaker 2:I have a symbiote in me.
Speaker 1:He's the guy that in all the DC comics holds up the sign that says the end is nigh. He's that guy.
Speaker 2:I have toxin and the end was nigh.
Speaker 1:The end was actually nigh.
Speaker 2:I have toxin in me, not a toxin Toxin from Marvel Comics, me what?
Speaker 1:We gotta go man.
Speaker 2:Are they gonna put another symbiote in this Like a named one? No, they're not gonna put in. Uh, what's my guy's name? Cut it out. Gus, kurt, whatever the sense of.
Speaker 1:Marcus.
Speaker 2:Marcus. No, marcus, you're telling me they put a Venom horse in this, but not putting in Marcus, the symbiote centaur vampire.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe that's who Tom Holland's going to play in the Nolan movie Marcus the centaur. I knew Nolan would do a Marvel thing eventually is Extribiote going to be in this.
Speaker 2:No, I can't wait. I can't wait for this movie. It's so dumb, but it's again. I'm not going to have to ask next week when we review this who is this movie for again. I'm not going to have to ask next week when we review this who is this movie for. It's for me specifically.
Speaker 1:Is this movie for? You're going to leave the tag for Rob at the end.
Speaker 2:Apparently there's two post-credit scenes and one of them is like the most perplexing post-credit scene in history. Yeah, I can't wait. I hope it's.
Speaker 1:Michael Keaton again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they just do the same again. Morbius, no, do they say, perplexing like okay, thanos, he picks up the, he picks up the necro sword. Fine, I'll do it myself. No, no does that at the end it's just a shot for shot, um redo of the age of ultra I can't believe that sony had the balls.
Speaker 1:I can't believe it. And they the balls. I can't believe it. And they're going to make Spider-Man 4 because Tom Hardy's going to be in Spider-Man 4, yes, yeah, probably Because he said he's done with Venom. Yeah, yeah, he said specifically. What did he say?
Speaker 2:I'm done making the movie, but I want to.
Speaker 1:I'd play the character again. You're going to play the character?
Speaker 2:again my guy yeah, kevin Feige's like no.
Speaker 1:Kevin Feige's like thank God for another billion dollars.
Speaker 2:He said I'll let you do Spider-Man, I'll let you guys have a Spider-Man 4 if you could get Null in by the third Venom movie. And Sony said challenge accepted, Kevin.
Speaker 1:Feige's probably going to say they'll never do that right. They submitted the script and he They'll never do that right, does it?
Speaker 2:say gnoll in this, does it say gnoll, yeah, it does.
Speaker 1:Spider-Man 4, attack of the Gnolls.
Speaker 2:Spider-Man 4, gnolls. In this one Gnolls. In this one Gnolls the villain Gnolls the villain.
Speaker 1:They gotta start doing movie titles like that Cowards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, none of this Foley-a-do nonsense. Yeah, venom 3, I know he's in this. They did do that with the second one, though, like it would be carnage. It's as close. It's as close you can get to that actually happening. This is the Fast and Furious of superhero movies. Yeah, it really is but they don't have.
Speaker 1:They don't have like a is Venom, the Dom Toretto in this, where he's the one that's all about family yes, that's what the whole second movie's about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, I can't wait. Venom 3 Venom's got a gambling addiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah weird, it's great. This is Chen's got has a dance number. Venom also has a dance number.
Speaker 2:I don't understand Venom 3 better musical than Joker. 2 cut it out alright, man, let's get out of here. You can follow us on twitter at project inf underscore pod. You can follow us on facebook. You can follow us on youtube at youtubecom slash project infinite podcast. You can follow us on instagram at the project infinite pod. Next week venom 3 last dance. What a name. I'm excited, man, but I tell you I have the complete opposite thought from this movie that I I did about Joker 2. Where I'm like, I'm excited for this one.
Speaker 1:Because they know what type of movie they're making.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be ridiculous.
Speaker 1:It's going to be absurd.
Speaker 2:Tom Hardy's doing a voice. Yep.
Speaker 1:Multiple voices. Where's he from?
Speaker 2:Eddie Brock? I don't know. He's from New Los Angeles York.
Speaker 1:Of Florida, of Florida.
Speaker 2:Of Miami-Dade County. Where are all y'all?
Speaker 1:from when are all y'all from?
Speaker 2:In the Sony universe.
Speaker 1:No, where are all y'all from in the Tom Hardy universe? Where are all y'all from? What were you doing in the bike riders?
Speaker 2:What was he doing? Riz Ahmed was in this franchise. Yeah, he was, damn. All right, let's get out of here From me. Oh man, careful, oh no, you got to be real careful. Man. Who's like the least worst character in this movie, the Harvey Dent of the podcast.
Speaker 1:Then I got half my face blown off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but no one has to worry about it afterwards, it'll never get revisited. Oh, okay, perfect, face blown off. Yeah, but no one has to worry about it afterwards, it'll never get revisited. It's fine, good lawyer, that Harvey Dent? Yeah, he was cooking, he was cool. He didn't give one single fuck about the Joker.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:He's like schizophrenic, this guy's all lunatic. Yeah, this guy's crazy Joker's lawyer was like he needs help and Harvey Dent was like he needs to be executed.
Speaker 1:And the people are like you know what yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he needs mental help and Darth Vader was like he needs to be put in a box permanently.
Speaker 1:And then he was yeah, he was by the second Joker. Oh, do they need to do one more? Do they need to do one more where that Joker gets killed? And then they can do the three Joker story.
Speaker 2:With one Joker that we know and two Jokers that were anonymous off screen.
Speaker 1:See having noel in this movie.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like having batman who laughs and like and like a tim drake led movie trilogy oh man insane I thought when that that bomb exploded in the courthouse, I thought they were going to do like the dark knight joker thing, where all the Jokers kill each other until the last Joker gets away. But then he just like they put him in the car and he was just like I don't know. Holy crap, dude, you're the.
Speaker 1:Joker. He's like no, I'm not, no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm Arthur Fleck. I'm Arthur Fleck.
Speaker 1:Bye, goodbye. My girlfriend's waiting at the top of the famous stairs. Then he gets chased by.
Speaker 2:Bigger Joker. Remember when we saw that in the trailer, we were like is he having a psychotic breakdown? No, he was just being chased by Bigger Joker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that guy's a unit. That guy needs to play for the Ravens or something.
Speaker 2:He just got chased by Bigger Joker Right and then escaped, no, and then he got arrested. Yeah, he did, he just gets arrested. Yeah, he just gets caught by the police.
Speaker 1:It's almost as funny as an arrest, as the Thanos getting taken in by the NYPD MCU.
Speaker 2:You cowards adapt that I guess he didn't stage the escape. But there's this big, elaborate escape. He escapes through the alleyways in New York. He meets up with Harley and then he just the cops just arrest him again and then he gets stabbed and dies. That's how the movie ends.
Speaker 1:That's the last 15 minutes of this movie, harley literally disappears into the sunset she goes up the stairs instead of down the stairs.
Speaker 2:Did you catch that symbolism? She went to heaven. She ascended from the madness. We're all mad here. Who's here? Who's here.
Speaker 1:Secret Invasion the best Marvel show there's ever been.
Speaker 2:That really does happen. In the last like 20 minutes he escapes, realizes well, he already realized he didn't want to be the Joker anymore. They wasted anymore, get. They wasted all that money on the imax cameras. He dives out of the taxi yep, he meets up with harley. She's like get lost, you suck. And then he just gets arrested and then he gets stabbed to death it's the best ending actually it's so stupid why do people think that ending sucked?
Speaker 2:I thought that ending was great. He's just gonna get arrested then. Then the guy was like also, that joke wasn't even that funny the guy the joke of the guy the new joker says at the end when he was like a joker and a fraud, walk into a bar and then the joker gets stabbed lol imagine there was a guard there.
Speaker 1:He's like ah, let's get out of here, yeah, let's get out of here.
Speaker 2:I I've had enough joker folia do the joke was on us the whole time. Thanks todd phillips. I use my free. I use my free ticket, though on it, so I didn't.
Speaker 1:I didn't lose that I also had my free ticket. Yeah, so shout out cinemark, thank you for free tickets the best bang for your buck. This isn't a free tickets Best bang for your buck. This isn't a Cinemark promo Best bang for your buck.
Speaker 2:I also saw it at noon, so I didn't even lose.
Speaker 1:I also saw it early. I saw it early too I didn't lose my day.
Speaker 2:I didn't lose any money. I think I just got a bottle of water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that movie didn't dictate popcorn.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no. And I just sat there for two hours just with utter befuddlement and confusion. The way you want to leave a movie.
Speaker 1:That was the most Aronofsky quote I've ever heard. It was me and there were like three other people behind me. Yeah, that was the opening weekend and there was, people were just and I was in the big theater.
Speaker 2:I was in the XT theater. People were just. That was the emptiest I'd ever seen that theater.
Speaker 1:Yeah people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't think it could be any emptier than when we were to see the Marvels, but it was actually emptier than that crazy. At least we have Venom next week. Venom, venom. It's the third Venom Noel's in this Venom movie.
Speaker 1:I can't believe they put Noel in that movie. You psychopaths. I can't believe it um all right.
