The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
138 - Unraveling The MARVEL & Mystery of "Agatha All Along"
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What if the mysterious and enchanting Agatha Harkness never needed redemption to captivate our hearts? In the latest episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, we unravel the threads of "Agatha All Along," a series that masterfully dodges the typical redemption arc to keep Agatha intriguingly complex. We praise the writing genius of Jac Schaeffer and the standout performance of Kathryn Hahn, who together bring Agatha to life in a way that both surprises and satisfies. Come with us as we journey down the Witches Road. Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
0:38 BREAKING NEWS: Marvel Postpones Blade Indefinitely
03:45 Court’s Cinema Corner Featuring Tom Cruise Returning to Days of Thunder!
13:16 A Game of Thrones Film in Development!
18:32 Jack Ryan Movie Coming at Amazon
20:24 Spider-Man 4 Gets Release Date
25:57 Marvel 2025 Sizzle Reel
36:36 Agatha All Along Season Recap & Review!
01:24:14 Speculating on the Future of Agatha & Wiccan, Awards Time!
01:01:42 Joker 2 Ending Discussion
01:44:01 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: Venom: The Last Dance Review
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It's the Infinite Podcast. Go tell your friends. It's the Infinite Podcast, my God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Robin Korn for Q.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom For movies, comics, TV shows, video games. We've got you covered. I'm Rob. I'm here, as always, with Court, Court. We were supposed to talk about Venom this week.
Speaker 1:It was Agatha all along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got tricked. We got tricked into doing something else, but by tricked I mean neither of us have seen Venom yet.
Speaker 2:Ag something else, but by tricked I mean, neither of us have seen venom yet. So, um, luckily, all along was phenomenal. Yes, I was gonna say that, luckily. Um, we had another thing to talk about this week, uh, that just wrapped up on halloween eve and that was agatha. All along, um, we talked a little bit about the first two episodes and kind of like what we were thinking, you know, going into the rest of the season and happy to report that this show was absolutely fabulous.
Speaker 1:It was fun, it was dialed. Jack Schaefer is a true star. I mean, her pen on some paper is that's a potent mix, gives me the goosebumps. Yeah, in all seriousness, she is. She's quite incredible. And I mean, once you you know, we talked about it you leave the show with Catherine Hahn and that's your first thought is like I feel good, I got Catherine Hahn with me, I got a charismatic lead, we can operate off of this. But this show does two things very well. One's a bit spoiler, spoiler, spoiler really. And one is I can say right now it's it's Jack Schafer being, you know, as incredible of a writer as she is. But the other one is, you know, agatha's a villain. She is. She's not a good person.
Speaker 2:She never was and she never will be and she never has been yeah, and obviously we're gonna dive into it, but I love you know that Jack Schaefer did a lot of smart tv things with this show, um, one of which was she used a lot of the marvelisms against, yes, her audience, um, in the sense that, like, a lot of people were probably expecting agatha to go the loki route by the end of the show, or you know, the classic kind of like anti-hero, you know, villain turned anti-hero route, um, and she, she used, she weaponized that, yes, she did um against us with the writing of the show, because for every, you know, every two to three moments where it seemed like, oh, agatha might be learning something or she might be taking a turn here, um, there's double that amount of moments that make you go, oh no, she actually sucks though, um, um to like a grander scheme. I mean, she does, and you know that's. I'm struggling to even explain it because it's so well written to the sense that, like, she's a complicated character she is very complicated, you know she does do things, obviously out of incredibly selfish and antagonistic reasons, but she also has this kind of perspective and you learn that. You know, obviously we're going to talk about the finale, which is different than pretty much every other finale Marvel's done. But I kind of I told you that she kind of adopted the the Thrones-ism of you know, doing the big action, action-y bit in the Pet Ultimate episode and saving the finale for a lot of exposition and a lot of what's to come. And that's what always made the earlier not among other reasons, but that's what has always made the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones so successful is they use that finale as a springboard into the future and that's what the finale of Agatha did.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean we're not going to spend too much time up top talking about it because it's our main topic, but we do have some other news, starting with Court Cinema Corner. First and foremost, tom Cruise is back. Fan favorite, channel favorite.
Speaker 1:Tom Cruise Channel favorite.
Speaker 2:The man who saved cinema? Yeah, he did, and he is. What is he doing Court?
Speaker 1:What is he doing? He's doing a Days of Thunder sequel. He can't help himself. Wait is is he doing? He's doing a days of thunder sequel.
Speaker 2:He can't help himself.
Speaker 1:Wait is this gonna be tom cruise's thing? I'm starting to think so is that he's gonna sequelize every single film he's been in. It seems that way you know what's the, you know what he should do. He should get joe kaczynski to direct every single one, it doesn't matter what genre it is. Um, this could actually be really fun. I'm shocked. I'm not shocked that he'm shocked. I'm not shocked.
Speaker 2:That he's doing this.
Speaker 1:I'm not shocked one bit. It's funny. It's one of those hindsight is 20-20 things. Using that logic, I'm not shocked one bit that he's doing something like this. I mean, I guess I can't be shocked that he does anything.
Speaker 2:Why not?
Speaker 1:Why not? I mean at this point, he's basically a stake in Paramount.
Speaker 2:At this point, he probably has like half their stock in his back pocket at this point. Yeah, I mean, this is essentially. I mean, for those of you who haven't seen the original days of thunder um, this is essentially like nascar top gun, and that's exactly why I think this could and I was joking about.
Speaker 1:Well, obviously, joe kaczynski probably isn't going to do it because he's already doing f1 with desmond Edgerson and Brad Pitt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one racing movie is good enough.
Speaker 1:Is it? You got Gran Turismo and Need for Speed. Why can't there be both? You're going to strap that kid to a $5 million racket.
Speaker 2:No, no. What was Orlando Bloom doing in that movie? That was crazy. Tony Scott directed the first one. You know he directed the first one um. You know, he directed the first days of the first days of thunder. He directed days of thunder um would joe kaczynski do it.
Speaker 1:You think, oh, I have an idea. Do you think tom himself would direct this movie?
Speaker 2:maybe this feels very passion.
Speaker 1:Project d yeah it does like he wants another crack using the all the technology that they learned and and kind of revolutionized on Top Gun 2. I think he would probably be like let me get behind the camera for this one, and in the race car, any actors you want to see in here.
Speaker 2:I mean Glenn Powell's a layup right.
Speaker 1:Glenn Powell would be good. I feel like Paul Mescal might be good for something like this as well, too.
Speaker 2:Some of you heard this premise before. Up character comes in, and then glenn powell shows up as the new hot shot and he's like you're past your prime, old man, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then he gets smoked and he gets smoked, but then he learns a lesson yeah, and then he becomes good.
Speaker 2:You're the new days of thunder, glenn powell.
Speaker 1:He says to him at the end of the movie I'm trying to think of some people that you can grab in this movie. I mean, like you said, Glenn Powell is going to be a very busy man, and then it's only a matter of time before Warner Brothers or Disney yeah, but he's like Tom Cruise's guy.
Speaker 2:So if Tom Cruise is like I want you in my Days of Thunder sequel, glenn Powell's just going to be like yep, I'm in.
Speaker 1:Is it too on the nose to put Miles Teller in there? Just do Top Gun again there. Just do top gun again. Yeah well, they're gonna have to save the both of them, because I'm assuming for top gun three that maverick's gonna die and then glenn powell and miles teller are gonna. The two of them together are gonna kind of be the. Yeah, you say that he can never die. I wish goose was probably rooster's probably, or goose was probably trying to say that to himself I mean this is fun.
Speaker 2:I like the the first. I like Days of Thunder. Original recipe. Days of Thunder.
Speaker 1:Put Jake Gyllenhaal in that movie. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. I mean, the plot is going to be what we think it's going to be. Probably Cole trickles back, he gets pulled into one last race to redeem himself or something. I don't remember what happened to Days of Thunder.
Speaker 1:Maybe he should be the racing coach for his kid.
Speaker 2:Days of Thunder rewatch. Days of Thunder retrospective yeah, we might have to, we're going to have to, so that's fun. I think that's really fun. Good for Tom Cruise Still trying to get that Edge of Tomorrow sequel made.
Speaker 1:Somebody give that to him in a heartbeat, right? How are we letting him do Days of Thunder, but we're not letting him do Edge of Tomorrow. That might be his most, because Bill Paxton's not with us anymore, unfortunately, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, anyway, christopher Nolan. So we talked a couple weeks ago about what his next movie could be and we thought it sounded suspiciously like Ryan Coogler's new movie. And then it turns out I guess that's not what it is?
Speaker 1:Well, the rumor is that this new movie is supposed to be I think it's either a remake of something from the 80s, if I'm not mistaken about what is it? It's first responders, like helicopter first responders, and there's a terrorist attack, or something like that. I guess that's what the premise of this new movie is, which I think plays a little bit better for Tom Holland and Matt Damon Sure Vampire 1930s horror movie for Christopher Nolan as well too. And then you know what? Also, lens Screen. It's that too. It's because it's because this whole idea that, you know, imax said we have brand new technology for Chris to try on the next movie. I think that fact alone tells me that this is going to be an action movie. Yeah, an action movie. Yeah, especially after.
Speaker 1:Oppenheimer, like you, sandwich them in between, like right.
Speaker 2:This is the Nolan MO. He does like a historical thing and then he does like a crazy action thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this could be real fun. This movie can get real fun. We're going to do our weekly casting update. Yeah, we're going to find out. Yeah, this might be the one. Tom Holland's Agent 5 is like yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got him, we got him, we set him up. So that's cool. Good for Christopher Nolan. Obviously, we'll see it. We will be there, no matter what.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so Godzilla news Takashi Yamazaki has been given a sequel to Godzilla Minus One, which I think is great because that movie was great. Yeah, um, I'm glad that Yamazaki is getting, you know, kind of like that mainstream you know appeal now as a director because of Godzilla minus one. Um, a different, obviously, a different take on Godzilla from you know, recent Godzilla movies where he's like Godzilla is not the main character anymore.
Speaker 2:Nope, godzilla, and Godzilla is, you know, back to being the minus one. Godzilla movie basically made Godzilla less of a character and more of a force of nature. Yeah, which I really, really liked about it. Obviously, godzilla minus one is really haunting, yeah, Um, and I think it's cool that we're going to do a sequel Call it Godzilla zero. Haunting, yeah, um, and I think it's cool that we're gonna do a sequel call it godzilla zero. Godzilla minus one.
Speaker 1:godzilla's is still too many godzillas godzilla voiced by keanu reeves I'm thinking, I'm back oh, no, no, no. Tokyo is like no I I said to you before we hopped on I hope they set this movie in in either in the modern day or the 80s or something like that. It would be fun. Ooh, Tokyo landscape in modern day with Godzilla, but still that same vibe as the first movie, I think would be great.
Speaker 2:Godzilla's back again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, guess who's back, shit, back again.
Speaker 2:But no, I'd be curious, and I don't doubt that they could. But I would be curious if they could kind of like pull the same trick twice, but this Godzilla might make it like a different. I guess, as long as the other Godzillas are around, there's always going to be room for the Godzilla, minus one Godzilla, because you're always going to need like that.
Speaker 1:He's the Batman of the Godzilla universe. We're going to make our fun event movies, but then we're also going to have our noir detective Godzilla movie.
Speaker 2:Godzilla vs Kong. Godzilla vs Godzilla minus one Godzilla.
Speaker 1:Multiverse movie. I'm not going to lie. Godzilla minus one Godzilla is a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but Godzilla vs Kong Godzilla is like super lizard.
Speaker 1:He's like God now.
Speaker 2:He got the pink power-up. He got a super saiyan form he did. He's got multiple of them like I don't know how you deal with that godzilla um, did you have anything else for your cinema?
Speaker 1:I mean just the tom holland and tom holland, lots of tom holland in this. Yeah, tom holland's got multiple. I got tom holland news later. Oh you do. Yeah. So tom holland and, uh, austin butler and american speed, which is going to be fun. Um, two brothers that are nascar drivers, if I'm not mistaken. I can't remember if they're not. They're nascar drivers but they're smuggling weed across the border. How dare you in nascars, in nascar, see it could be fun. And then austin butler's in that other movie that I'm really that aronofsky's doing, that I'm really looking forward to where he's playing the baseball player. I think that's going to be some fun stuff. Matt Smith's in that movie with a big old mohawk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that movie I couldn't figure out. Just based on the Matt Smith image I'm like what is this movie about?
Speaker 1:That's the most 90s baseball thing I've ever seen. This movie's about baseball.
Speaker 2:I'm in, I'm intrigued. Yeah, that's fun. Good on Tom Holland. He's doing things, he's back. He took a break and now he's back.
Speaker 1:You saw Tom Holland. He was doing his press circuit thing. They pulled the Spider-Man stuff out of him, unfortunately, which I feel bad about. Yeah, I mean, of course, but Tom Holland, I believe he got sober, if I'm not mistaken, yeah, and he came out with a uh, non-alcoholic beer yeah, I thought that was. I thought that was quite awesome yeah, good for him, man.
Speaker 2:I thought that was pretty awesome and it's cool that he did this so young too right before it got. He's not even 30, yeah before it got out of control, right, and he kind of, and he had self-awareness too, which is awesome and I mean, to be fair, like he's very close to robertey Jr, so I'm sure I don't want to pry into their personal lives, right.
Speaker 2:But I'm sure there was communication there because of, obviously, downey's struggle with substance abuse and stuff like that. So good. On Tom Holland. I got some Tom Holland stuff coming up in a little bit. But first Hollywood Reporter came with this nuclear missile that a Game of Thrones film is in early development of warner brothers. Um, no writer, no director, no, nothing, it's just, it's greenlit, let george rr martin do the whole thing I.
Speaker 2:This has been a thing for a long time of people being like do this as a movie and I'm like that's never gonna happen, like that's ridiculous, like I got nine seasons of tv and or eight seasons of tv and now several spinoffs, so I don't well, this is the.
Speaker 1:This is the show, right? This is the follow-up show that was promised. I don't know. This is the prince that was promised, I don't I don't know what this could be.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this could be a sequel series, a sequel movie set in this in the thrones universe. I don't know if this is going to be like a oneoff.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know what they should do Do it bright and set it in the modern day.
Speaker 2:Fairies' Lives Matter.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, my head has been spinning ever since this announcement of what the story could be. I think a sequel series, a sequel movie to the show, I think is a definite possibility. It all depends on, honestly, it depends on George RR Martin, it depends what his level of involvement is going to be, and I don't think he would come on board for a sequel film to the series. So that makes me think. My prevailing theory right now is either something surrounding the doom of valeria, because that could definitely carry a major motion picture, the, what the doom my house survived. The doom, because you get the volcanoes, the dragons, the, the big, big event, corals for larian of wiping out let him narrate that movie wiping out the dragons and and setting the targaryens up for future conquest.
Speaker 2:Um, I think robert's rebellion is a possibility, because that's something that fans have been clamoring for. Um, when he was cool and hip. Yeah, when robert rathian was cool. Um, I think that makes a lot of sense as a movie, just because you don't have to tell a hell of a lot of a story, because people are already familiar with it. So you kind of already set the stage of. You know, you'd probably open the movie with the abduction of Lyanna Stark and kick off the rebellion. And the whole movie is about Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark fighting the rebellion against the Mad King, and I think that makes a lot of sense. And then it just bleeds right into Game of Thrones and then you're on your way. Any actor that should play him.
Speaker 1:Young Robert Baratheon. Didn't we look this up?
Speaker 2:one day you need someone kind of burly. It sucks that Jason Momoa was already cast in Game of Thrones, because I feel like he would have been a good no that's using the fall guy logic to cast Jason Momoa to save your movie.
Speaker 2:Um, I think there's a. I mean I quite liked we never saw Robert Baratheon in young Robert Baratheon live action, but I quite liked the young Ned Stark actor who played him in season seven of Game of Thrones. When they do the flashback-y stuff, I think the guy from freaking I forget who the guy's name is from Vikings.
Speaker 1:Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know exactly who you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I feel like he'd be good as a young Robert Baratheon. I think it would just be cool just to see all these characters young you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, I feel like he'd be good as a young robert baratheon. Um, I think it would just be cool just to see all these characters young. Unfortunately, you do. Ah, you could still do charles dance as tywin lannister.
Speaker 2:You could still do that that would be so fun oh god, he's so good as tywin lannister man um, but I think it's yeah, I think robert, wait a minute, listen, just hear me walk with me for a second.
Speaker 1:Okay, henry cavill as a I think, robert Baratheon. Wait a minute, listen, just hear me out, walk with me for a second. Okay, henry Cavill as a young Robert Baratheon. Like full brolic before he let himself go.
Speaker 2:We've gotten Robert Baratheon. We've gotten Henry Cavill fan casted in Game of Thrones a trillion times. I could see that, though, a lot of people really want him to be Egg on the Conqueror, but I think people are just Witcher-pilled because of that. Sure, because he has a white wig, and that People are like he should be a Targaryen, like, hold on, yeah, relax.
Speaker 1:Yeah, think about it. You've seen full-bearded Henry Cavill Like. Imagine him as a young Robert Baratheon before he let himself go. Just before he let himself go, Just like a madman.
Speaker 2:Swinging a big warhammer.
Speaker 1:That'd be cool. Swinging a what A warhammer.
Speaker 2:I see what you did there.
Speaker 1:That's true, tom Hardy. Tom Hardy's too old He'd be doing a voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, doing a voice. And then my other insane theory for what this movie could be is George R R Martin doing his version of the finale of Game of Thrones, just so he can get out of writing the book yeah, they would never do that.
Speaker 1:They would never do that.
Speaker 2:That's my way out there theory. But I mean, whatever man I'm in, I'll see Game of Thrones on the big screen. Why not? Yeah, I think that's super fun and interesting. And I was just um. But I mean, whatever man I'm, I'm in, I'll see game of thrones on the big screen, why not? Yeah, I think that's that's super fun and interesting. And I was just surprised by it. Um, speaking of tv shows getting green light into movies, jack ryan is back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or he's coming back, shout out krasinski man krasinski is going to be starring in a jack ryan movie, obviously for amazon. Um based, not based on the show, but like spinning off, not even spinning off continuing the show, um which I guess. I guess this is just what we're doing now for tv shows, big prestige tv shows. They're just getting a movie. Just give them a film at the end of it.
Speaker 1:Wait, we are reverting back in time, isn't that? Isn't this the thing that used to happen back in the day? Yes, I've seen the power rangers movie from 95.
Speaker 2:That's so good oh, where's my autograph book? We're gonna do that, yeah, one day we have to um, uh, I've never seen the jack ryan show, but I've heard it's. I've heard it's good.
Speaker 1:So it's fun, is it? He's good, krasinski good, I think. He plays the line very well of like government agent, but can also get his hands dirty. It's Jack Reacher's talent.
Speaker 2:Oh, Jack Ryan should fight Reacher.
Speaker 1:Sorry, jack Ryan, you're getting promptly murdered. Who's got the wittier black superior? Huh, the wittier black superior guy, because for some reason, all these government shows have one. I don't know. Why is that the test like? Why is that a thing I don't know and you know exactly. You know, I'm right you are right, I'll have one um. The one from reacher's like, he's like a jerk, he's like a smug jerk, but but the one from Jack Ryan, he's funny, he's funny, he's funny.
Speaker 2:So good for John Krasinski. He's not directing, I would imagine right he could.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's a director of any sort yet. I think that would be a good choice. Just let him do it himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with that. What else have we got here? Oh, spider-man, I did that. Um, what else we got here? Oh, spider-man, I did promise I had tom holland news. Um. So spider-man 4 officially has a release date of july 24th 2026. Um, so there's a year and a half from now, that's gonna approach really fast.
Speaker 1:It's gonna get here real, real fast yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:it will be set between avengers, doomsday and secret wars, um Wars, which loosely confirms that Spider-Man will probably be the main character of these Avengers movies. Yeah, one of the main characters, yeah, which I think makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:It makes sense. It's still a bit unfortunate. I mean this is other talk than whatever we talk about Doomsday we do a Doomsday preview. This is other talk than whatever we talk about doomsday like we do a doomsday preview, like we can talk about more. It still hurts a bit because obviously they did this incredible setup to finally get him to be the neighborhood spider-man. You get daredevil back into the mcu. They seem like they have good chemistry together, like that could have been such a fun little street level. And then spider-man goes in there and he goes back. He goes back down to all of them too.
Speaker 1:You do Devil's Reign. Essentially you just pivot a little bit to get it from a singular Daredevil versus Kingpin to kind of like a pivoted Spider-Man Daredevil Kingpin triumvirate. But they're going to make that doesn't make a billion dollars, exactly. You know who does make a billion dollars. Exactly. You know who does make a billion dollars. Andrew garfield and tom holland make you, or tom holland and and toby mcguire make you a billion dollars yeah, um, so that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:They're framing spider-man is going to be the, the core character of these avengers movies which, let's be honest, they wanted to do that, yeah, for a while, but they just, obviously, he was inserted so late into the infinity saga that, like you, couldn't how do you pivot?
Speaker 1:how do you pivot this to null? Because we kind of know what this movie is going to be. I can't, I still cannot believe it um, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean having not seen venom, I don't. I don't know um I don't know what we sony is so unpredictable it's insane.
Speaker 1:We don't know what they're making. An agent venom movie movie I saw yesterday too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Insane, whatever they gotta do man Whatever it takes.
Speaker 1:But you, I'm assuming you just do, you just do Noel, you have. You know, you just have the four of them. There are the three of them plus Tom Hardy Plus Morbius no them plus Tom Hardy Plus Morbius no. So when you do the three of them plus Tom, Hardy Plus Milo. Morbius no, Anytime Matt Smith shows up in a thing, it immediately becomes goaded. So Exactly.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know what this Spider-Man 4 movie's gonna be. Kingpin versus Noel.
Speaker 1:You embarrassed me in front of Vanessa. Maybe he'll become the Extreme Beout.
Speaker 2:Ooh man, kingpin with a symbiote. I'm sure it's happened. If it hasn't happened, it should.
Speaker 1:I don't know man, I don't know. I can't believe Daniel Dustin Cretton is going to direct this movie, which that in and of itself is cool. That I really appreciate. Yeah, because I think the action is going to be tight. Yep, the action's going to be tight. I think he does some really solid, like you know, some groundwork character-wise. I think he's good for that as well too. It's just my biggest unfortunate nature is that they I do think that was the idea is that they were going to do Daredevil and Spider-Man versus Kingpin.
Speaker 2:And they still might. They still might to be fair, Like maybe Feige looks at the Null thing and just is like you know what? Just do your own weird Null movie, Mm-hmm, and leave Spider-Man out of it.
Speaker 1:I don't think he's naive, though I think he understands. Like that Billion with a B keeps the lights on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, andrew and toby keep the lights on or they both, or they both, or both sides win, and you just get garfield to do the sony thing with no, and then holland does his own street level thing yeah, he joked about it too.
Speaker 1:Like in the movie like I, I want to fight an alien. Like here's your chance. Like here's your chance, here's your chance. I just don't. I don't see a world where they made a billion f the three of them together and they don't do that again. And you get Andy Serkis to play Noel on top of that too. You're not just going to waste him, like Star Wars wasted him. That's a different discussion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's true. There's a lot of interesting pivots that can take place with this Noel thing. They're almost certainly cutting bait with the other characters, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, like morbius um webb. Madam webb craven, see ya like.
Speaker 1:We don't need any of you guys like we don't need any of you guys like just multi and especially since this is going to be after doomsday, that's probably gonna like nah, well, it's probably gonna open the multiverse up and whatever they're gonna probably explain. I you know what I think this movie's gonna do. I think it's probably going to open the multiverse up and whatever they're going to probably explain. You know what I think this movie is going to do. I think it's going to anchor being it, but I think the anchor being thing is going to also mess with the web or whatever it's called. Across the Spider-Verse. Those two things aren't going to like the anchor beings. They're going to do some stupid not stupid, but they're going to do things. That's gonna mess with that because they set it up in Across the Spider-Verse. I do also think we're gonna see some Across the Spider-Verse characters in that movie. Take the full swing.
Speaker 2:I do like the idea of like Null's coming and then Venom's like I need allies to fight.
Speaker 1:Null and Morbius shows up and Venom's like nah, you should do the same thing from Deadpool and Wolverine, where he, like, peruses the multiverse. Not you Get lost. I think it has something to do with Spider-Man. You were right this time, michael Keaton, it did.
Speaker 2:It did have something I don't know, We'll see, I guess which pivots nicely into the Marvel sizzle reel that we got, which I didn't know that they did until I watched the last episode of Agatha Yep, last episode of Agatha Yep, and they showed it and I was like ooh. I said what's this? I said wait, wait, I thought it was a Deadpool and Wolverine thing and then it was just like here's everything I'm like whoa.
Speaker 2:So what did we get in the sizzle reel? We'll save Daredevil for last, because I know that's what you want to talk about the most it looks cute, it feels unnecessary, sure, sure, I think that's all that sony would give to marvel as well, too. Young spider-man, young spider-man. Um yeah, I mean it looks fine. I I think it's. It's really cool. I like the animation style. Animation is very different like the cel-shaded kind of comic booky.
Speaker 1:Yeah, harry osborn's got the waves yeah, yep, coleman domingo is playing norman. Let him play norman in the movies. Hear me out, I'm, I'm hearing you, I'm hearing you, I'm listening.
Speaker 2:Imagine that that'd be great. He would cook. Oh my god, that would be incredible look um, but yeah, it looks, it looks fun. I don't know if I'm necessarily dying to see it, but I think it looks fun um marvel zombies good stuff could be properly scary spooky.
Speaker 1:It's r-rated and that's the tv tvma which which was my biggest. Like the first f-bomb that goes off in that show, I'm gonna be like what the um, we didn't.
Speaker 2:I mean we didn't get. We got to look at a couple of different things. We got moon knight blade, yeah yep moon knight and blade. That's cool. Who's playing blade? It'd be kind of hilarious if it's marshall. Yeah, the comedy would be kind of hilarious if it's Marshall.
Speaker 1:Ali. Yeah, the comedy would be off the charts if it was.
Speaker 2:What If season three Yep, the last season, the final season of what If we don't know really much about it? As far as episodes and stuff Obviously this is an episode with the Red Guardian is in one. I'm assuming Captain Carter is going to come back, much to my dismay. I'm just not a fan of that character anymore. Yeah, first season, I was all on board. Second season I'm like all right, I'm kind of over this. She hasn't. She's not interesting right now. They took, they just made her Captain America, but H I'm just like that's not what that and a little tougher, a little like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not what made that character fun in the first season. The first season she was fun because she was really brash and like look at me, I'm a cool, look how cool I am. My super soldier power is like that's what I wanted. And then they were just like nah, she's just Captain America and I'm like ugh B Wakanda.
Speaker 1:That looks good that animation looks awesome. That animation looks so cool and I mean this is a cool, weird Jiven project.
Speaker 2:He's involved in the creation of it, so I'm sure it's going to be good. Right, I'm sure the lore is going to be there. The story is going to be really good.
Speaker 1:Switching to live action Iron Heart, butcher, butcher the Line. This show could be okay. This show has the potential to be alright, a ringing endorsement from the Project Infinite podcast.
Speaker 2:This show might be alright. This show could be okay. You know we got again. This is just one of those, and maybe I'll be wrong, because Agatha proved me wrong and maybe Agatha is the gateway to this sort of stuff, or Agatha becomes the problem, where it's like we expect everything to be Agatha but like, by the time this Ironheart show comes out, it'll have been four years since we've seen Ironheart and that was the big issue.
Speaker 1:And looking at the landscape, I think off of everything that goes into Wakanda Forever. I do think Marvel said put Riri Williams in this thing. We need her to get debuted somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you know, know, I didn't. I walked out of wakanda forever liking her, yeah, but I wasn't.
Speaker 1:Ironheart was not my prevailing thought, walking out of that exactly and imagine if you remove her from that movie as well too. Nothing changes. Nothing changes. You just figure out how to. Who made the? Whatever it is. You can tease, tease it and be like this girl from Chicago made this thing, and then us nerds would be like I know, that ain't who I think you're talking about over there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so honestly, I'm already thinking that the first episode of Ironheart is going to be like reintroducing her to us Because it's been so long and I'm just like you're kind of wasting your first episode. Like Agatha didn't do that, We'll talk about it. I mean, we did talk about the first episode, but Agatha was like you remember this, you remember? No, they didn't even do that, they just dropped her into the weird. You're like, oh, it's weird.
Speaker 1:Like WandaVision again, which I like that so much, but we'll talk about that in a second.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what a Yep. Not my hood. He's not my hood. Not my hood, oliver Queen's my hood, I'm sure he'll be fine.
Speaker 1:Remember when Lance tried to arrest Oliver? That was crazy. Are you the man in this picture? No, no.
Speaker 2:Kind of want to take the lie detector test. I love Arrow. What a show. Speaking of Arrow, oh, we can't do that yet. Yeah, yeah, um wonder man dude.
Speaker 1:Look, I have two of a team, one of the coolest guys on the planet. That was my takeaway. That was my takeaway from that cool.
Speaker 2:I went wait, is it wait? Did he just carry this as a real base aura?
Speaker 1:no powers, no marvelisms of anything. All his vibes. All he did was walk to the. He said I'm simon williams auditioning for Wonder man. I said wait, a Whoa, whoa, whoa. His aura, his aura is blinding.
Speaker 2:I need some sunglasses, I can't see, and then he had that one shot of him where he had sunglasses on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had the tried and true 80s Wonder man suit on. I said wait a second, wait a Whoa. So I think I don't know. I like the vibes. What is this show going to be? It's a comedy, right. I think they should lean into this being like a comedy, like a tried and true, like Abbott Elementary, like you know your ABCs, your NBCs, that's what.
Speaker 2:I think it is.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a better sell as well, too, to like as She-Hulk was, like this self-aware, you know, breaking the fourth wall comedy. I would like this as a tried and true comedy, with a little bit of drama elements sprinkled in here too. Ben Kingsley is going to be in it. Evan Peters is going to be in this We'll talk about.
Speaker 2:Evan Peters Grim.
Speaker 1:Reaper is going to be in this movie as his brother slash the villain of the show.
Speaker 2:Not my favorite character, Grim Reaper.
Speaker 1:Daniel Dustin Cretton is also. He had like a. Not only did he direct this, he was like I think he was one of the producers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was adamant about this.
Speaker 1:Obviously, my man from Snake Eyes that played Snake Eyes was supposed to be Wonder man. I forget his name John Snake Eyes. Nope, that's not it, Dude, what a pivot to get. It's one of those things where it's the Steven, those things where, like it's the steven yoon conversation of him not playing. Obviously we were excited that he got originally cast as bob, as robert reynolds, but then you get, uh, you get lewis pullman and you're like, wait a minute, I see it. I still see it. Like this is still a win-win on both fronts. Like this one feels like that same thing and, like I said, I'm simon williams auditioning for wonder man.
Speaker 2:I said, wait a minute, wait a second yeah, I was just caught off guard by the, by the charisma.
Speaker 1:I was like wait a second and that's what you and agatha is a perfect example of that. Like that can, if your writing's tight, your charisma can take that over the edge and like, really get innovated with that too yeah, um, that daredevil.
Speaker 2:We got some writing writers, show writers, episode writers, a lot of Arrow, a lot of the Flash and a lot of the Punisher. I noticed and I'm like, ah, my people, these are my people.
Speaker 1:Those are your people. They actually called you and they said is this good? And you said yeah.
Speaker 2:So it looks good to me, boss.
Speaker 1:I mean, what can we say? This show looks amazing. It looks dangerously good. The action looks incredible.
Speaker 2:What are you going to do, right?
Speaker 1:All your favorites are back Jon Punisher's back Jon the Punisher. Jon the Punisher. Barthol looks great, mrs.
Speaker 2:D'Onofrio looks great.
Speaker 1:This is gearing up to be pretty special and like a show that can really go to the well on as well too, of like.
Speaker 2:no, we're going to run this show for like as many seasons as we can get out of Charlie Cox yeah, I mean I'm, yeah, I mean, you know, it's just one of those things where, like I look at the and the cast and I'm just like everyone's gonna put it and it's like one of those things, like we talked about this show, like it's production woes of, like it feels like everyone that they eventually got back is gonna come into this like just give it 200.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they probably walked into the room and they were like hey, remember when we decided to murder you guys in the first episode not anymore, you get to be in the show they were like well, thank you.
Speaker 2:yeah, like I'm sure, I'm sure Debra Ann Wall's gonna be great, elton Campbell's gonna be great.
Speaker 1:Bernd Dahl is probably gonna be really great.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, he looks so good in this. And then I mean Cox and D'Onofrio are gonna just bring it over the top and we're gonna go?
Speaker 1:yep, they have one of the most special relationships in this universe. This is truthfully like like they're going to work together, or he might represent him, which would be all sorts of crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I can't say enough ever since.
Speaker 1:Remember when they did, they gave him two suits in the show and they and then the show they said two suits, give him every suit that he's ever had.
Speaker 2:18 episodes, though I hope, oh Lord.
Speaker 1:Cause this is going to pull. I think this is going to be a combination of it's got a little bit of mark wade sprinkled in there, but this really does feel like frank miller mixed with chip zadarsky's run. So I hope for a season two. I hope the electra actress comes back. I hope she gets to play electra again, who says she can't die twice. So I hope she comes back. I hope they do tried and true devil's reign and I hope they do the whole zadarsky run in season two. Like get him in the prison, like get him to be a prisoner and him just going insane in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm on board. I mean, when that show comes out in March? Yeah, that's four short months away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I might have to request off for that. I can't be bothered when the show comes out For every week, every week. Don't talk to me. My king is back.
Speaker 2:Don't talk to him, for was it eight episodes, ten episodes Thirteen, I thought.
Speaker 1:right, I thought they were going. I don't know, hang on, it's either nine or thirteen. I think they're going. It was eighteen, eighteen episodes. Eighteen episodes, though, that's a lot of episodes.
Speaker 2:Wait, it's too many episodes, is what they said. Premise Episodes, just says one.
Speaker 1:He only needs one episode to be goaded.
Speaker 2:There's only one on here.
Speaker 1:Maybe they should end this Daredevil Nine episodes. Maybe they should end this. They cut it in half, jerks. Maybe they should turn this Daredevil show into and they should end it with a movie. That should be the vibes going forward, man man.
Speaker 2:All right time to talk about agatha all along. Um, what a show, holy moly man. Just, I mean, we kind of talked about it when we talked about episode one and two, but like, just, I've never, never, like been a part, not been a part of a show, I wasn't on it but like witnessed like this just collective apprehension to like a show and being like, do we really need this? And then you watch the first couple and you're like, okay, and then it just kept getting better and better and better and you're like, wait they? By the time it was done I was like, was that the best one? Like what? Like? Was that the best? Like one of the best, if not the best one that they've ever done?
Speaker 2:And I think it's just a testament to jack shaffer, obviously the the creative mind behind this, um, and then just this incredible cast that they put together and just it's. I hope, my, my hope is that coming out of this is marvel learns from this show. Yeah, in a sense, and it's a lesson you probably would have expected to learn from loki. And it's that when you don't have to like include all the bells and whistles, like we don't need this, like over the top.
Speaker 2:Yeah, notoriously the the smallest budget that they've had on any of these shows a lot of practical stuff um on this show when it came to set design, when it came to costuming, um, even some stuff that I didn't think was practical ended up being practical. Um, and just, I hope they learn. You don't need a giant budget to make this happen. You don't need a bombastic, giant battle at the end, you don't. You don't need to like litter, litter the ground with future easter eggs and dangling things like just give us nine to ten episodes of well-written, well-acted, character-driven show and you'll reap the benefits of that, because you have some immensely talented people waiting for you. And let those immensely talented people be immensely talented and you'll reap the benefits.
Speaker 1:And I think that's ultimately what the mission statement of the show was yeah, and I mean this is a testament to like we said before, just some dialed writing and everybody being bought into the same show. I mean this is a testament to like we said before, just some dialed writing and everybody being bought into the same show. I mean I can't stress that enough. For anything we've talked about, any projects we've talked about, it's when everybody is on the same page of the project they're making, that project will automatically be a little bit better. A little bit better, it's a near perfect when that happens. Automatically be a little bit better when a little bit better, it's a near perfect when that happens. I mean your near perfect ideology, for that is something like dune dune and dune 2 specifically, of like every single person on that set knew exactly what movie they were making, every single last person of them.
Speaker 1:This show tells me that almost everybody on that set, everybody from that cast and crew, knew exactly what show they were making. And that starts with jack schaefer. That starts exactly with her knowing this universe, knowing the characters in this universe, and not only knowing the characters but having the, the trust to say no, no, no, no. Agatha is not some redemptive loki variant character. That is, you know gonna be this big tri triumphant return to heroism and correct, no, no, no, she's a bad person like I am a. It's not that I'm a bad person, I'm a, I'm a human. I think that's the biggest tell that I can get from that show how human of you to. She probably might be one of the most relatable characters in this universe at this point, especially after that ninth episode yeah, like I texted you.
Speaker 2:The finale I said is the thing that gets revealed about her in that ninth episode like one of the most canonically evil things that any character has done in the MCU to this point, um, and the other thing, like I'm, I'm, I was worried about this show, was I?
Speaker 2:I just because of Marvel's, the MCU's track record, especially over the last few years, like I really was afraid they were just gonna like lean into the meme, yeah, of the character no, you know what I mean. And like lean into like look how wacky she is, whoa, no no, and you know what helped too, and I think this was.
Speaker 1:It's kind of allegorical to think about it. It's where the first episode starts. It's like a triple pronged allegory, because one is the fact that they pay homage to wandavision, but it's likeandaVision in the 2020 era of television. Like that's the one piece of television we didn't hit was like the streaming era of television we didn't hit. So I thought that was funny. And the fact that it's from the streaming service, they kind of you know, they play it off of Mayor of East Town with Kate Winslet. They kind of they make her for that first episode. I think is smart.
Speaker 1:Your other piece for it, too, is understanding that you know you have some leg room that you have to operate with, too. You have, you have a heavy lift, like you're following up the first, and it's not only the fact that she, she does it, she pays homage, she immediately kills it and she's like no, no, this is this own show. Now I'm just giving you guys the. You know we were here at one point. We're done with this. Now we're we're done like this is this is our own show. But I mean, I can't stress enough how great Catherine Han is. Like she's dangerously good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and her range in the show is unbelievable. She sells that character so well, in the sense that, episode to episode, you truly don't know what her motivations are. You truly don't know what she's going to do, right until the moment that she does something. And I think that's really rare, especially in this genre, especially in the superhero realm. You know, a lot of characters are very cut and dry, there aren't a lot of dimensionality.
Speaker 2:This is all stuff we've talked about, you know, when we talk about the shortcomings of some of these things. And that brings me to like, like another point about the just the, the supporting characters. Yeah, they built, and it's something, again, that not a lot of these marvel shows have done. You know, I think quite a few of them fall short in developing the supporting characters. Um, this show was one. Again, I was kind of worried about it, but at the same time, I specifically remember especially the patty lupe casting where I was like wow, like patty lupe, like yeah, like that for those of you who don't know patty lupe, like she is, she's like royalty on the stage yeah, she is like a mount rushmore stage performer and I'm like, wow, like patty luppone is in this show?
Speaker 1:what are you doing? What kind?
Speaker 2:of show, like I knew there was going to be like musical, and the funny thing is, no, the musical part, obviously the battle of the witch's road. They use it, they sing it over and over and over again and it's, it's great, it's a catchy song. But, man, they built episode seven around lillian, around patty lu lupe, and they just took this legendary actress and said this is your episode. Yep, and it paid incredible dividends because of what they did with that character the previous six episodes. You know, they built that layer of like what is going on with her, like what is she, what is her deal, know? And then episode seven, they do the lost memento thing with Lilia and you know, and how the pieces and the pieces they didn't. What I love what they did with episode seven is they didn't force the pieces to fit, they just revealed to us slowly how the pieces fit together and it makes for like one of the most satisfying conclusions I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:It's hinging on borderline like prestige television levels of writing especially. And then I mean Jack, shit, you know, sometimes when the showrunner slash director or showrunner slash writers come in to direct an episode, like obviously Druckmann did the first episode, which episodes of? I think he did the first and the eighth episode? Yeah, he did the first episode, which episodes of? I think he did the first and the eighth episode?
Speaker 2:yeah he did the first episode and then, no, no, he, because craig mason did the first episode. Um, I don't remember. I think he did the third. No, he didn't do the third episode. I can't remember which early season episode he did, but he did do the left behind episode.
Speaker 1:I do know that right so this episode, like I know jack, probably pulled out all the stops. I know a lot of the budget went to that episode. You can definitely tell. But you know this is one of the best things tonally about this show is it knows when to push and pull. Like this show has to kind of go on the wavelength of of tone like and that's a difficult thing when your show has to kind of your show, your project has to, you know, fluctuate a little bit in tone like. In my opinion that's not too much of an issue as long as that tone is where it's needed at that point in the story. Like you're, you're playing with fire. When you do something like that, like that's a but, like gone right, you get episode seven which is one of the better episodes of television I've ever seen. Like that episode is fun.
Speaker 2:That is some phenomenal work it's man, it's such it's so hard to pull off yep it's, it's somber, but it's triumphant at the end like it is man.
Speaker 1:What a what a performance from patty lapone but long for. Like you know, event television like that to pull off something like that is remarkable, and I mean it's now one of the highest rated episodes of television period. I think it's one of the highest ones that there's been.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's outstanding and I remember people like you know, because scoopers will find a way to get information. I remember people were saying like once they, the last three, were left, they were saying like no, no, seven is like this is a special episode of television. Remind me a lot of the sandman episode that we, you know, we talked about all the time. Obviously, you get into like Loki, season one, episode six, like you're sitting there and you're like I can't believe I'm watching. What I'm watching right now, like this is truthfully incredible. Like everybody's so locked in, they're dialed in, but there there's so much of trust that comes like and like you said, from somebody like patty lapone to go in somewhere like that and like I don't need this. Essentially, like I'm I'm one of the most famous people who ever stepped foot on a stage like I don't truthfully need this. Like that sell to her to do that is probably what got her there yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:And then episode seven, when the pieces fall into place and she launches into that monologue you, you know, you're just locked in, like it's one of those. You know, it's like that we talked about the Top Gun Maverick like the roller coaster, like the seatbelt, and you're in your seat when she gets rolling, when she I forget what the exact line is when she says I know what I did wrong, you're locked in bro, you're locked in in brother.
Speaker 1:You want her to win. So bad because and it's that little piece of that, you know it gets that like almost like that movie-esque, like aspect ratio, and it flashes back to the past for her and, like you know, I forget what they call it um, the woman that I don't know if that's her actual mother, um, but she says, like you know, what does she say to her? She's like why are you here? Or like she's kind of basically say like it's not time yet, but you'll get there. You're here, but not yet.
Speaker 2:Or you already have been here. Yeah, so I mean just Tai Lupon man.
Speaker 1:She's the queen. You know what this show does. That like something like Boba Fett didn't do it backburners Agatha but still leaves her. As I know. This is the main character of this show, but you don't need to be right this second.
Speaker 2:Well, you know why that's so good? It's because of how good Catherine Han is, that she makes the most she's in WandaVision. She makes the most of the time that she's given and the lines that she's given. Everything that she delivers is very snappy, very snappy, delivered very deliberately, and you get exactly what she was trying to convey, like, even if there's an episode where she's barely in it. Yeah, I forget which episode it is, but she's barely in the episode. Um, it might be, I can't remember exactly which episode it was, but there's one where I was just like man, she was like off screen for, like most of this, isn't it?
Speaker 1:uh, billy's up williams episode.
Speaker 2:The teens episode we teenager Damn use this full name. I mean we gotta talk about Sasha Zamata, she again. It's like what Patty LuPone thing like when she needed to rise to the occasion in episode 8, where she gets that scene with Agatha. You're like.
Speaker 1:It's such a train that she goes on. She's the definition of this show. She goes on like a, like a train ride, like it starts off slow, you pick up steam, but once you get to the destination there's a relief that comes with it. And there's it's it feels so earned as well, because you get that fear that she's like the quippy side character that's going into and that you can kind of rely on her to be like oh, what the heck's going on. And then you know, you start to get deeper and deeper into the show. You hit episode seven, the relationship she starts to have with these characters with lily especially.
Speaker 1:But then episode three does such a great job not only setting up the structure of the show with all the trials and how they're they're working then it starts to dip into like let's do some true character work, and they give everybody some equal time in episode three. Like it's not like this, you're gonna, we're gonna focus on you later, but it might not hit because there's another director of this. No, no, like all of you guys are gonna get equal setup. I think the only character that suffers and I don't even think it's a suffer, I just think it's because it was she's the first one up is alice might be, but it's still. But still, that episode itself probably pulled on the heartstrings the most outside of episode seven, because they did such a great job of building up her as like the tether to the witch's road.
Speaker 1:And and a teen dot dot dot, that she was the one that was tethered so much to the witch's road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a great point about you know, and and Allian was is great as Alice Gulliver, because it builds to that moment. So naturally, when you know that's what I again to your point about building each episode kind of like around the trials, like each character kind of gets a little bit of shine and that's why it's cool that they got Jen's trial out of the way so early so that it comes all the way back around to episode eight where again it brings it back to the agatha point, like you think. You think it's one thing about jen, like why she doesn't have her powers, and then it's revealed that it was agatha that took her powers from her, and you're like and she didn't even care, like she didn't even.
Speaker 2:She's like oh, I just took it, I just took a job. Yeah, I didn't know if it was you, like who cares, right, and that's how you know. You're like jesus christ, like, and then you think it can't get any worse. And then it gets worse, and you, I mean again, I can't say enough good things about the cast um, which brings me to joe lock.
Speaker 1:What uh, what? Uh, y'all must not, y'all must have forgot. Like, welcome to my moment performance. Yeah, um, I can immediately tell they're going to shift him immediately to the. Yeah, it's going to be him and Him and why can't I remember her name? It's going to be him and Miss Marvel are going to be the main two characters, easily, of the Young Avengers.
Speaker 2:Also, they're going to probably put their foot on the gas of that Young Avengers movie to make sure that gets made ASAP after this especially yeah, I mean, and what I love about this show again and I think Jack Schaefer is very deliberate with this is she didn't she didn't mess around with the, with the mystery of it all, like I don't.
Speaker 1:I think she deliberately tried to avoid a WandaVision like escalation of theory crafting, because if it doesn't happen, everybody's like well, this show is pointless. And if it does happen, happen, everybody's like well, this show is pointless. And if it does happen, at the end they're just like. We already knew this was going to happen. Then why did you care about it?
Speaker 2:So they do the reveal in episode four. They're just like here. He is Spoiler alert. He's Wiccan. He's Billy Maximoff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pulling straight from the comics, somebody made a great point Simplified the heck out of what the comics tried to do with that character it makes. So it's so much simpler, so much easier to follow for, like a casual viewer. Essentially, when the hex was being made or the hex was being, you know, disbanded, and Wanda, wanda used the last bit of her power to kind of put Billy and Tommy's consciousness out into the world for two dying souls to get. So Billy gets into one and obviously, billy being the son of the Scarlet Witch, he gets a little bit of the better power set. He gets to do a lot more. Yeah, he gets telepathic powers. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a great reveal. I think everyone it's a satisfying reveal. You know not, and this is you know. Going back to Game of Thrones, that's where game of thrones flop like kind of flopped at the end, is they? They did too much, trying to subvert expectations when they're like no, we didn't want john snow to be the one to kill the night king, because that would have been too obvious. Yeah, but you built seven seasons worth of television making the night king john snow's antithesis. Like sometimes you just got to give the people what they want. Just give them what you've been feeding us. Don't just be like, haha, tricked, ya, you know what I mean. That's where a lot of shows I feel like screw up. They're like we tricked. Ya, I don't want to be tricked. You laid the groundwork for him to be Wiccan. I'm glad that he's Wiccan. I'm glad that he's not like an agent of Mephisto or he's not like, you know, ralph Boner again.
Speaker 1:Like I'm glad that you just made him wicked. Going to Jack Schaefer's point about and your point about Jack Schaefer, I should say, is the understanding of hey, like no, this is a tried and true television show. Like my fear is that this was going to turn into a straight up comedy. Like, just tried and true.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:This show gets sad. This show gets sad and somber, Especially the last three episodes. Oh Lord, yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:So he's, I mean he's great, and he's great, he's great as teen he plays the naive.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know what's going on, I don't understand anything, and Agatha calls him out on it.
Speaker 2:Agatha calls him out on it after the reveal, and she's like you're just like your mother.
Speaker 1:She's like what's this.
Speaker 2:Let's say she doesn't like her, like Catherine hotline sing songy voice what's a sigil? Like I don't know what that is Like she and she calls him. I love that. It's directly confronted and then once that switch flips and he becomes wiccan and he becomes billy caplan he's like.
Speaker 1:He's like the switch flips. I also love what they did with his bonovation, because it does two things a it separates himself from wanda. B it kind of it makes him his, his own separate entity of a character that can lead right into the young aven Avengers himself and be one of the main characters of Vision Quest. Slash Young Avengers. Like oh, you're looking for Toby Tommy. That's what I said. It's so simple but it's so good. Like I just want my brother. That's it. I don't know if and again, I'm still William Kaplan. Like William Kaplan still lives inside of me.
Speaker 2:I love that he took the adopted son approach of like I don't really care about Wanda.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's not here. I don't see her. She wasn't really my mom Right Like Tommy's my brother, though, and he's out there somewhere. Like he's out there, so I can feel his soul out there somewhere I'm like I need to, I need to get him. And she kind of tells him, I know how you can get him, like you're not gonna like the way that you do, but again, like he, this. This show operates with such these complexities for the characters too and her just being like.
Speaker 2:You know, she's constantly after the reveal. She's constantly reinforcing him. Don't be afraid of who you are and again because you don't know her. You're like is she doing this to make him morph him into some sort of thing for her own gains, or is she genuinely trying to help him?
Speaker 1:the answer is yes. To both yes, the answer is yes.
Speaker 2:The answer is yes to both 100. That's exactly right. It's exactly right because she can't help herself. She can't help herself but to find the self satisfaction and self preservation in any given situation she's in doesn't matter who it is, how it's done.
Speaker 1:I mean, she killed, sharon dies and she's just like well, mrs Hart, that's not Mrs Hart, that's Sharon Davis.
Speaker 2:she's like nobody cares she was tremendous by the way, oh yeah. I wish she was in this show for longer me too, but she was just great as like. And again it comes all back around to the big reveal. Like you understand why agatha was so flippant about this entire thing, because spoiler it was indeed agatha all along. Yeah, it was, it was. The Witch's Road is a con.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's not real until somebody made it real, which is another incredible reveal. It's a double-stacked reveal. It's a double-stacked reveal, a double-stacked. A Dave's, double A Dave's double of the reveals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought that was brilliant. I thought the reveal that Billy creating the road was going to be the reveal. And then they spend episode nine telling you no, she's a horrible person, Even though that she felt she had proper motivation for doing what she did. But she wasn't killing witches over centuries because of her dead son.
Speaker 1:And you think that's what this whole show is leading to that these witches did something to her or her coven did no, no, no, she just loves power and dragged her son into it before he died. And she dragged her son into this whole charade that she was putting up. What a great plan she was cooking. She was just like did I just think of all this myself?
Speaker 2:That montage of her singing the ballad across decades is like one of the most haunting things, and that's what I was talking about earlier when I texted you. I said is this one of the most canonically evil things a character's done in the MCU besides Thanos?
Speaker 1:She's just murdering these for power, these innocent witches and some of these witches probably want things that you know. That you think at the beginning of this show she also because you're thinking what she does she wants her son back. But it's not like this. You know this noble, I want? No, no, I, just I. And what other mother? And that's why these characters are complex. Especially she is like I want my son back, like I, I want my. And at the end of episode eight, where you know billy does his thing on the road he leaves, jen does her thing on the road, she leaves, and like Agatha's left there, agatha's first thought is like oh wait, I can bring Nikki back if I do this quick spell, like she's not thinking, like I need my thing. At the end of the road, she's like no, no, no, I can get Nikki back if I plan it. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:It's like that's her, it's the only way her mind works yeah, it's, it's crazy, um, and it just again it brings you back to, like the wiccan thing of like, and I love how they did it, made it so like back in wandavision, like they always kind of had a connection, him and her. When he's in the house, after she she's babysitting them and she's like oh, how do you like the house, or whatever, and he's like it's quiet, he's like you're quiet, agnes, cause he can't get in her mind. And then episode eight comes and he finally does. He finally gets in her mind at the moment that he needed to the most. When he's like can you like once in your life, like like, help someone else please? And then she does, but she does it as a she does.
Speaker 2:See, again, this is the brilliant part about this character like she does do it sort of for him, but she also does it as an fu. Yeah to our final cast member that we have to talk about, which is aubrey plaza as rio vidal. Yeah, the, the I would say the casting got the most like ooh, you gotta be somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're Aubrey Plaza from TV, from acting.
Speaker 1:And she is somebody. She's somebody big, yeah, not massive Like this, is like a huge deal.
Speaker 2:But again, it's one of those things where like people were like it could be this, and then Jack Schaefer was like it is this.
Speaker 1:It.
Speaker 2:It could be this. And then Jack Schaefer was like it is this, it is this. Like here, we're not going to dance around it too much. The reveal is great. Yep, it's properly haunting. It's one of the. I mean I guess we'll get into the Let the Director Cook award, but mine is for Jack Schaefer for that seventh episode, the death reveal.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, this one.
Speaker 2:We we got to give out some awards for this show. Um, the death reveal is brilliant and it's a. This is, this is one of those things where it's a directing choice and it's a writing choice that amplifies the moment. Because so easily, so easily you could any other, any lesser writer or any lesser show would have had lilia just flat out say rio is death. And you it would have been, it would have been neat. But for that moment to be her doing flipping all the tarots over, and then it flashes back and you hear aubrey off screen. In the end, all roads lead to me and you're like home boy. And then she goes, rio is cut to the card flipping, and then that it's a great, it's a great score, by the way, that death, that boom, boom, boom and you're like and practical costume for aubrey in her death form, with the like, the half skull face and the. It's a great reveal. It's a great reveal.
Speaker 1:Um, it's a properly scary character I love aubrey plaza in the scare, as this character too, because she's like she's so mundane aubrey plaza is I think that's why it works so well, because she's properly like always, tonally, this almost the same, like she doesn't have like peaks or valleys when she's talking, except when she's not Unless, when she's not Unless when she's provoked to. And I think it plays, because I think the big reveal that comes from episode nine, which is so I love the structure, how they flip it. That's what I told you about. The biggest thing that this show does is eight, and nine Takes that whole thing from WandaVision, where everybody's like I remember everybody loved episode 8. It was. We're finally learning all the answers in episode 9. Oh no, you did a punchy finale. Yeah, it's a superhero thing. Of course they did a punchy finale. So Jack Shaver's like and we're doing again.
Speaker 2:She directly confronts it.
Speaker 1:When you have that shot of the citizens of westview.
Speaker 2:being like is it happening again? Like that's a direct, that's a direct, it's a funny bit, like it's a funny moment, but it's also a direct confrontation of wandavision right. Being like, oh, we're doing this again, like a big dark circle swirling into witches fighting each other. Like we're doing this again. And then it becomes more than that, right, and that's what I love about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because Wanda dies. I meant to say Agatha. I had Wanda on the brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Agatha dies, agatha is killed. Well, she takes death's power and they put that, they put that gun right in episode, right in episode two, I'm not mistaken. Like or episode one, like, oh no, it was two. Yeah, hey, you can, you can do it to me. Go ahead, you're, but you know you're gonna die from this, right. And she's like yeah, there's a literal kiss of death.
Speaker 2:Which poetry? Um, it's like poetry, they rock. And it's a literal kiss of death that kills Agatha. I love and again I love, and it's it's the King. It's the Kang versus Ant-Man thing where you're like how can Ant-Man conceivably beat Kang? And then he does, and quantum mania suffers for that. You get to this and you're like how can she beat death? And you can't. Agatha even says it to wiccan, like even the two of us together can't beat her like this.
Speaker 1:That's the death, death with a capital d like, and and jen substantiates it so well too because she kind of says like no, no, she's not, she's not evil, she has feeling. And she has feelings for agatha because she used to be a witch at some point. But but she's the original green witch. That's why she holds a knife and a flower. This is just the circle of life. She's just the end piece of this entire thing. That's all she is. She's not this overtly evil piece, unfeeling monster, exactly. And that's why Aubrey Plaza is perfect. Because Aubrey Plaza is perfectly just. She's always even-keeled, kiltered, like monotone, like.
Speaker 2:That's exactly how aubrey plaza is and she borrowed. You know, obviously I I wouldn't be able to say for sure whether the, the game and version of death, came before the marvel version of death, but at least in that instance where where this version of death, the aubrey version of death, goes to collect alice, there is elements of like that, that game in sandman death, where she kind of gives alice like a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah and also she's just like and again, this is where aubrey plaza comes into the equation she's just like you know she plays it for like a riddle, almost. It's just like you know you said you died. Your protection was like you died protecting. She's like how could I?
Speaker 2:dead like well, because alice says like I had so much more I wanted to do and alice and other than death is like what else was there? Like you died doing what your purpose was. Like you broke your family's curse, you found out what happened to your mom and you died protecting someone. She's like, yeah, it's time right, and I love that realization. It it's literally like a version of that sandman scene where the guy is dead and he's looking down on his body. He's like, ah, shit, yeah. Like alice kind of has that same realization, like she thinks. She's kind of like she's like I got away, I got away with it. And then she looks down and she sees her body and she's like, ah, shit, and. And then death shows up and she's like time to go like.
Speaker 1:The only finicky rule like lore piece that didn't sell me was the billy reincarnation thing. That's the only. That's the only piece that like tripped me a bit on my on my marathon run like her. The ideology of like if you can't do it like why not yeah, because why couldn't you just go get that billy again, like, aren't you all powerful to the point where you would know you?
Speaker 2:think that. Do you think there's part of it that she just wanted to stick it to agatha?
Speaker 1:no, I think it's more of how powerful that wanda, so subsequently, billy is like they're the only beings that would ever supersede death, would, and I think they're going to play into that a little bit too, for this wand of movie that inevitably is going to have to come, yeah, um, I think they're going to play into that. Like that want the scarlet, which is the only being that can supersede death itself. Like you were powerful enough to create life. Like what, what more do you want out of death? Of like like we can't defeat death. Like you know I can't, but she can, she can like, yeah, that's the only thing that makes sense to me of why she can't, because you know billy will just keep like, his consciousness will just keep jumping from body to body.
Speaker 2:But doesn't she say that someone says as much that you could.
Speaker 1:Just you're just gonna come back again like and well, that's where my confusion is, like, well, why can't she just keep waiting like it's not, like she has a time limit, she's death. Yeah, maybe, I mean maybe, like the line that lost me is like because you'll look, because agatha's like you'll lose him, why, like, just go get him again.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess it's a sense, I guess it's because death that's her whole thing is like she can't take them, like she can't, she can't take anyone, like she can't kill anybody.
Speaker 1:Maybe because it's reincarnation baby.
Speaker 2:That's why she needed Agatha specifically to kill him, to suck him dry, take his powers and then kill him so that he's just mortal. Basically, at that point she takes all his powers and he dies.
Speaker 1:There's no way for him to reincarnate because the the, the juice is gone, so then death can just collect him I loved a little bit in episode eight where she cuts the, cuts the rope and just walks through like this paper. Yeah, she cuts through the set because it's fake. Yeah, she cuts through the set.
Speaker 2:Um, there's, yeah, there's so much there, but that the death stuff, that is just like, again, it's a reveal that's very satisfying and, like, the great part about the reveal was like nobody was asking, like, where's thanos? Like nobody cares, right, um, except for all the people who are like I kind of see, I get it and I love that Agatha dies again, like as a. Obviously she won't admit she sacrificed herself for, really, but there was part of it, that was true, but also it was an F you to her, to Rio, because the last thing that Agatha says to her is the moment I die, when I die, I don't want to see your face. So how does agatha go out? She dies and she becomes a ghost. Yep, because rio can't collect her, and I think that's awesome and she's just like I. I can't believe this worked. Like, what is rio? What does agatha say in episode four? Or, yeah, what does rio say in episode four? I?
Speaker 2:hate ghosts agatha became the one thing that she can't stand. Yep and bonus.
Speaker 1:We got ghost agatha yep, I can't believe your ghost agatha from marvel. I can't believe we got there and, like katherine han's, probably gonna stay there like as most agatha, permanently.
Speaker 2:Yes as just a annoyance for eternity first. First an annoyance to Wiccan and then, most likely, an annoyance to the Scarlet Witch, yep. They gave her the gray hair, the purple costume. I couldn't believe it. That was the biggest reveal. I was like, wait, they're actually doing ghost acting and it looked good. Yeah, I was floored. I was like I can't believe that this stupid show just went full comics on us. I couldn't believe it and did so in just like convincing. Now I want to see Vision Quest.
Speaker 1:Yes, what I never thought those. My stupid nerd brain was like well, you know, james spader's gonna be in vision quest 2. Like I was like, wait a minute, this show could be, could be something so what happens now?
Speaker 2:let's go find your brother. I'm like I need another season now, right?
Speaker 1:give me the next season now, give me the, give me the third part of this trilogy.
Speaker 2:Like hold, like wait I'm in no, don't leave me now, come back, agatha, I need more of that, like holy crap, man. And then I mean, the only other thing I want to touch upon is obviously that scene where she comes to take the sun. Yeah, let's dive into episode nine, because boy, whole boy, yeah, because you watch episode 8 and you're like where else is this going to go?
Speaker 1:I thought the same thing I was just like is episode 9 going to be an extended post credit scene? Like, where do we? We did the punchy finale. What more do you want? And Jack Shaver's like be an adult, grow up how about a flashback?
Speaker 2:and you finally get, and you finally get.
Speaker 1:She inverted her own writing from WandaVision to do this, to invert episode 8 and 9. It was insane. We get the final buddy.
Speaker 2:The final thing, the final mystery around Agatha is her son, dating back to WandaVision. You don't know what's up with her son. And you finally get it, and it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:Yep. So Agatha's son was supposed to die at childbirth, seemingly. Yep, ryo shows up and because Ryo loves Agatha, she's an exception. She's like I'll give you a little bit of time Come on Sean. But when I come back, I'm coming to collect, you don't?
Speaker 2:get a second chance. She did the Mandarin from Iron man 2. You'll never see me coming and she didn't? She was sleeping. How do you read that that she took him while Agatha was asleep, to make it easier on both of them?
Speaker 1:I do think she loves Agatha. I really I truthfully think that this is the only person that death has ever. And what a person for death to love Thanos somewhere. My brother's Harry Styles what an insane pairing. I love canonically that in the mcu that josh brolin and harry styles are brothers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the best thing ever smile, thanos, I am smiling, I am smiling, I I need starfox thanos adventures plot twist. Thanos is the funny one, yeah, he is the funny one. Thanos is the funny one, yeah, he is the funny one.
Speaker 1:Star Fox is the weird one. Should have sold you from a box of parts.
Speaker 2:Damn that was crazy.
Speaker 1:He said that to his own daughter. Yeah, that was nuts that he adopted jerk. Even Death was like ooh.
Speaker 2:Yikes. But yeah, ryo comes or Ryo goes away, away. Agatha's like I need more time and rio's like I'll give you time, but who knows how, when that'll be. And then the the cogs start on turning. Nicky's whistling a tune and agatha's like what's that tune? You got there, nick. And he's like I don't know, I made it up and he's like hmm, I could also make this Down the windy road.
Speaker 1:So good stuff. And then a witch shows up, yeah, which is like, hey, howdy, howdy, you guys need help. And she's just like, yep, what if we murdered? What if I murdered all you guys, cause I love power? And she was like, well, that's quite rude, that's, that's quite rude. How rude, how rude. What are the Nikki? What's Nikki and Alex up to these days from full house? I gotta be pushing 40 by this time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Um. And then we get this um, we flash forward, and now Nikki is in on the con. He's like mom, I don't, why do we kill witches? Yeah, and I was like what.
Speaker 1:There's no catch, like they just do this.
Speaker 2:She's like I need that power yeah, she doesn't even give him a good reason.
Speaker 1:No, she's just like I'm or what does she say? If we don't do it to them, they'll do it to us, and no, they won't, and she's just like you gotta you know this is survival of the fittest killer.
Speaker 2:Be killed yeah it's literally killer be killed, right, but like, no, they won't, but anyway, that's besides. Well, it's because she's gaslighting her son, um, but I mean, she loves him, that's never in doubt, but she's a lunatic and a sociopath, but she loves her son, right. So then they fall asleep in the woods and then rio shows up again and she's again very gently, kind of like, gives him one of these like, and he, but she does make sure to tell him to kiss agatha before they go, and agatha wakes up and her son is gone rio's aubrey plaza.
Speaker 1:Slash rio, slash death. They're like properly haunting. She just stands there and I'm like I get like she's just standing there menacingly. I'm like get chills. I'm like, oh, get away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there's also like a, an elegance to her. Yeah, there's a peace that comes with it and especially like in that form, when she has like the green dress and she's like she has the torch and she just kind of like gives him like the get over here, mm-hmm. Um, and he goes and then, like you, kind of you get why Agatha's mad? Mm-hmm, because, like you didn't, but Rio treats Agatha the way that she treats anyone else, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Like you don't get to choose when you say goodbye right, you're lucky I loved you. To give you some time yeah, like I gave you six years. She probably broke like some absolute. Oh, I wonder if they'll ever pay that off like that death broke some, like absolute cosmic rule.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's also partially to like. Going back to your point about billy, why she's so mad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, about billy, right like reincarnation's got to be like the thing she hates them. Like, yeah, you're not allowed to come back, like that doesn't work that way. Yeah, and like I said, what's more powerful than death and extended and prolonged life that the scarlet witch is able to create? And they, they make and I wonder if that was intentional from jack to make sure they say that line. And and I don't know if they paid off in wandavision and if it was multiverse of madness. Like you know she's, she has the ability to. The scarlet witch has the ability to. Oh no, they say it in wandavision. Uh, agatha says it at the in the finale, like the scarlet witch capable of creating life, and like she's in they even say it in the 80s episode. Like you know, you're able to like bring sparky back. You know you're able to raise the. Bring Sparky back. You know you're able to raise the dead and Agatha's the one who goes.
Speaker 2:You can do that.
Speaker 1:You can do that and like she's like ooh, you might be important to get my son back from Rio. Like you might be the one that I need, or I can just take your power from you and I don't even need you to do this. Ooh, jack, you might be cooking on some long form stuff there.
Speaker 2:And then her son dies and you think, oh, this is like she's gonna make a turn here. Nope, she creates the witch's road and she just siphons the life force.
Speaker 1:What a sick, sadistic thing that she's just like. Well, I'm gonna keep getting my power. This is my homage to my son to keep getting power and keep killing.
Speaker 2:And circling all the way back around. She was just going to do that to the characters in the show Until an unforeseen circumstance came along.
Speaker 1:Billy Maximoff came along and said and created the road Because he can create life.
Speaker 2:Because he needed the road to find his brother. Yep, and you find out. Agatha knew that the entire time that he did it. She knew that from the beginning and it was all his fault.
Speaker 1:And oh that little, that little yell that she gives him in the beginning on episode eight of like you know, if you don't know, then shut up like you don't, like she knew, she knows like she, she knows, like he's making this up. He doesn't even know he's making this up as he goes Until he.
Speaker 2:I love that realization, when he starts looking around his room and he's like, ah crap, I did this, didn't I? And then I love that they dove briefly at the end of. Well, not even briefly. It feels like it is going to be kind of like part of his character going forward that he makes that realization that because he did what he did, he got lilia and sharon and alice killed yep. He did that, yep, because the road was never real right and then, but the realization that agatha gives him is you also helped.
Speaker 1:Jen Right, she's like you know, you lost three, but you got one.
Speaker 2:Again her own Agatha way. She tries to make him feel better about that and I love their dynamic at the end of the show when he's like when she goes you know I'd never have gotten along with my fellow witches Like I'm a witch killer and he goes. So am I.
Speaker 1:And you're like, oh wonder if they're gonna play it off. If he's a witch killer, maybe he turns into the witch killer to try to kill his own mother, which he eventually comes back and then we get, like I said, we get Ghost Agatha and just outstanding. I can't wait, I can't wait to see this stupid freaking thing continue they got me I mean you last remarks like I owe this show the biggest Publicly. I owe this show the biggest you can go back to.
Speaker 2:I think we've been doing this podcast long enough where you can go back to us talking about this show. When it was incepted and we were like why, I'm actually probably going to go back and listen to the older ones and just be like what were our thoughts on this? Because I don't think any of it was ever like I can't wait for this, until like the first trailer, when they were like and we were like Wait a second, huh, huh, wait a minute. And then there was like the whole like title switching and like it felt like the show was like didn't know what it was trying to be title switching thing was also part of the marketing right and you're like she, jack, is just smarter than us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she is, she is, she's, I think in her career like going forward, she's gonna turn into like one of the more notable writers in hollywood, like somebody that people try to get. I want to see if she wants, if she's ever gonna, she will eventually like do something outside of marvel. Like I'm really keen to see whatever that would be too. I think she's really I mean, it's clear she has an affinity for this. These characters give her just give her this like do something outside of Marvel. Like I'm really keen to see whatever that would be too.
Speaker 2:I think she's really, I mean, it's clear she has an affinity for this, these characters.
Speaker 1:Give her, just give her this sect of the like. If James Gunn is like the one that you run through for all the space stuff in the MCU, like give her all the mystical stuff in the. Give her everything. Like let her spearhead everything down there, the Midnight Suns, werewolf by Night sequel, like whatever you're going to do down there, give it to her. Let her kind of like spearhead that flagship, that piece, even if that dips into the Doctor Strange stuff, because I think we talked about it. Like just let her write the next Doctor Strange movie so that at least because the Doctor Strange 3 is going to run into the problem of we need to make sense and fast track for you knowtrack for Secret Wars. So if that's going to be the case, at least let her be the one to try to contextualize you know what she's probably also going to do Probably fix the error of Doctor Strange's character from Multiverse of Madness, to be like you're going to learn something for once. This time You're actually going to change a bit as a character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's clear that she has an affinity for these characters and I agree with you. I think she absolutely has warranted a little bit more stake in the game, right, in terms of the mystical side. She clearly understands these characters. She clearly understands Wanda, she clearly understands Agatha, she clearly understands Wiccan.
Speaker 1:The most important one is that she understands Wanda. That's the most important one that they need to get back to.
Speaker 2:So I can't imagine a world. I mean, and poor Lizzie Olsen just going to the Andrew Garfield school of I don't know what you're talking about kind of basically let it slip when she was, like I think someone directly asked her on a panel or something. She was like is Wanda ever coming back? She's like I can't tell you, but I don't know. Yeah, come on. Yeah, for such a great actress, not great. So I mean, the worst kept secret in Marveldom is that Wanda's eventually coming back and, to the point that I made, I don't know, years ago, at this point she's due to be like the main character of, of whatever they're trying to do yeah makes the most sense.
Speaker 1:Like put her around everything, like comics wise. You think about it like house of m was kind of you know she was the central piece of that. Like do the same thing but just turn it more of like a heroic version of it and then pivot it towards secret wars. Like what a triumphant return that she can have to come back against Dr Dool. Like you think about the person that lost everything. Like that's Wanda. Like she is, she can be, she can truthfully be the savior of the MCU. And like, again, if you're going to do the comic thing, like to pick the character, have her be the one to reset the entire multiverse back to, back to square one, back to square one, back to phase one. Put the mutants back into the main timeline. Put the Fantastic Four back into the main timeline. Switch some things up. So like Anthony Mackie's been Captain America for a while.
Speaker 2:Give Hearn Hiddleston a little room to cook together.
Speaker 1:He's gotta come back because whatever and you gotta get back to your Infinity War endgame, Thor, and that's why I think that's important that the Russo's are there, because I think that Chris Hemsworth is gonna be important to that too. The scene where they reunite with each other and I told you, I told you that the sun would rise on us again I told you that's gonna mean something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm all for giving Jack Schafer whatever she wants on the side of the Marvel Universe Because, like I said, she's just smarter than us. She put the show together and everything paid off.
Speaker 1:It's rare to say something like that.
Speaker 2:Especially for these Marvel, disney Plus shows. How many times do you leave a finale feeling a little deflated about one thing or another? Every character got something by the end of the show.
Speaker 1:And to counter my point about Alice being maybe the most underdeveloped, it's very important that Rio was there to show up to take her. Of all of them, that was the most important thing they could have done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every character got something and that's ultimately. We talk about this all the time with, like the character driven stuff. We talked about it with Joker, like what was the ultimate shortcoming of that movie. It was like the characters didn't go anywhere and I didn't really care. Right, this show, I cared.
Speaker 1:We didn't even talk about episode six. Like the William Caplan origin story episode, we didn't talk about that. We didn't talk about the scene where Tommy gets a body and Tommy's out there somewhere.
Speaker 2:Agatha did I just kill a boy so that my brother could live Agatha's like maybe I don't care. He's back, isn't he? I mean, I guess, before we do some awards, we can kind of just speculate on the futures of some of these characters.
Speaker 1:Vision Quest is going to be a combination of, obviously, tom King's Vision run and the beginning of the Young Avengers run, the core Young Avengers run. It's going to be kind of a combination of that, maybe some Age of Ultron sprinkled in there, some like dream sequence Age of Ultron. It's going to be basically like Vision you have a heart, this is your life, this is your life. Vision you have a heart, I am Vision. Which Vision? I request a liberation.
Speaker 1:So, which vision I request a liberation. Um, so I'd imagine wiccan will show up in that as well. Yeah, um, I'm adding jack schaefer to the project infinite whiteboard I love that she's the first writer to go up on the board.
Speaker 1:Um. Would we see agatha in vision quest? I don't think it's a. I don't think there's any doubt, especially after the show, that that you're you're itching to get katherine han back any way. That you can just like joe lock, like it. You don't just be like, yeah, you guys can hang out. No, no, they're getting both of them back. Um jen midnight suns, that'd be fun.
Speaker 2:Get a potions witch in there too because nerd, nerd, nerd marveldom jennifer kale is the cousin of johnny blaze. That'd be fun, that'd be real fun. So you can use her as kind of a conduit to ghost rider. That would be kind of fun got a cousin, that's that's.
Speaker 1:He's kind of a hothead. That's why they don't let me write yes, yeah, I'd immediately put that line in there.
Speaker 2:She would have said that episode. She would have said that in episode nine. Yeah, and then the lincoln park theme would have started playing um, I guess the most interesting one is when do we think we're gonna see ari plaza again?
Speaker 1:I would maybe just make her the villain of whatever this agatha agatha show, whatever this wand of movie would be, like the like, the fallout of whatever this trilogy is, like the movie to the trilogy. I would just make her maybe her and Mavisto the main pieces of that, because it seems like that's what they're. We still haven't gotten him. We said his name, we did say his name we do not say his name, tell Mr Fist, tell Mr Fist. And he immediately got his head bashed in.
Speaker 2:Tell Mr Fisto, tell Mr F got his head bashed in, remember mr fisto tell miss tell mr fisto yeah, conspicuous by his absence.
Speaker 1:Mr mephisto, um, we're getting there yeah, it's hard to put mephisto in because of foreign audiences too. It's hard because he's the devil Right, right.
Speaker 2:Are we going to see Ralph Boner ever?
Speaker 1:again. Well, in Wonder man I believe that he's supposed to be in. That could be fun. He cooked a bit. Oh, evan Peters comes back. He did cook and he cooked. I like tortured Ralph Boner. It's the best, it makes the most sense. And again it's Jack Schlafer being like no, no, no, you know you're gonna be a crazy loon that just had a witch possess his body like this makes absolute sense.
Speaker 2:Whatever happened to character progression? That actually made sense. Jack shivers said I got you guys. God, really really good. Man really enjoyed this show. I can't believe I'm saying that, you know, now that it's over. I'm just like and maybe you know you could say, was it as good as we're making it sound, or were our expectations too low? No, I think it was. I think it was that good. I genuinely do. I don't think it's our expectations being so far exceeded that we were floored by mediocrity. I don't think this was mediocre at all. From again writing design, everything it was directing, everything was just performances. So, yeah, let's give out some awards. Yeah, let's do it because we skipped.
Speaker 2:We skipped the joker because joker didn't deserve any awards yeah, yeah, I don't think it ever did.
Speaker 1:Oh, joker, what a movie. Um, you're gonna do best cinema moment.
Speaker 2:Uh, do the full award set for this one Best cinema moment I'm going to say is the Lilia sequence. The Lilia sequence. I episode seven best cinema moment.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go with the cinematic nature of episode nine.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:A lot of it did feel, feel very movie esque in there as well too, which I appreciated. Uh, best character that doesn't need to be in this.
Speaker 2:What's his name?
Speaker 1:The neighbor Herb Herb, yeah, no he needed to be there, did he yeah?
Speaker 2:So that they could do the callback to her defense. Hey, neighbor.
Speaker 1:That's a good one who didn't need to be in this Agatha. Come on, You're kidding yourself. Um best actor to join the franchise? Uh, Patty LuPone, Patty LuPone. Oh, it's Joe Locke, because of the future ramifications of him being there Like hit, I think. If you think about it this way, his work in this show fast track that Young Avengers movie. I agree it gave all these characters like where was Cassie Lang going to get reintroduced? Kate Bishop, Kamala Khan.
Speaker 2:Who's playing Cassie Lang?
Speaker 1:It'll be Catherine Nguyen. But still to my point, they probably felt a bit of limbo. If you really want to get into it. Joe Locke kind of got them back on track to where they were supposed to go yeah, cause I think people were kind of cooling off on the younger thing. And that immediately, like it was like that classic, like prime MCU thought process of like, okay, now, like everybody's like, go read this young Avengers book. Like you need to read this immediately.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good one. Best car bit um her driving in episode one the fake, the fake car, the fake.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna go the fake car when she goes. Well, that's kind of what it leads into, is my point of like oh, we didn't even talk about that bit.
Speaker 2:No, we didn't really freaking. Episode one inversion episode in episode, was episode six. Right is the wicked backstory, right when you see the events of episode one from his perspective? Because and you see how fucking- trapped.
Speaker 1:She was because think about the whole hex. But it's just in agatha's mind now.
Speaker 2:It's not even like projected outward, it's well, you see, like the damage that wanda did to her and not just to her, the whole community.
Speaker 1:They're afraid like we don't say her name. Oh, and it's so crazy because like her house is like that house from like your neighborhood, that's like haunted. Like her house is actually the haunted house that spits on it she spits on the plot when she walks by.
Speaker 2:Yep, um, yeah, like when she's like, and this is not a car best side character uh, it's lily yeah she's incredible.
Speaker 1:Am I wispy or am I kooky?
Speaker 2:but you could have you could, I could realistically pick any of them. Yeah for that, jen alice, but lilia. Obviously she gets the big groundswell moment in episode seven um best send-off.
Speaker 1:It's lilia.
Speaker 2:It's lilia again. Yeah, I mean, that's the best end off for any character you can, even in the history of send-offs uh, saddest moment.
Speaker 1:I'll remix mine to jen finding out that agatha was the one that bound her. That was properly like shazir, shazir zameda being like no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna act now.
Speaker 2:You have no power. You have no power over me. You have no power over me. It's good, um, it's not, maybe not the saddest moment, but it is that when rio comes to collect alice again, it like gave me that, that vibe, the same vibe that the salmon episode gave me, like it's just something about death. When it's portrayed that way in media just gets me of like this, like calm, like inevitability. That just really kind of gets me and like the character realizing like, ah shit, like I'm dead, like you know what I mean, and like you know her just giving alice like that time, and like they kind of just like walk away together. I'm just like you know that type of that, that that type of scene always, always gets me best relationship.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm gonna say agatha and wicked, I'm gonna say wanda and agatha, because she, she is always present, she never leaves her mind rent free and agatha's mind will be will be wanda and agatha, because she, she is always present, she never leaves her mind rent free. And agatha's mind will be will be wanda maximoff you're so much like your mother you just want to see the crown um most underrated character, uh most underrated character. Is it Alice?
Speaker 2:I was going to say, yeah, probably Alice. Yeah, yeah, it's probably Alice, just because she gets the least to do but also maximizes the most of it. Mm-hmm, you know.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, you're a protection witch. You died protecting everyone. What more is there? You want Best, most heroic moment.
Speaker 2:Um, this is just Lillia again Lillia taking out the Salem Seven.
Speaker 1:We gotta talk about the Salem Seven, because guess who they are exactly like from Star Wars, the Knights of Ren. They are actually the Knights of Ren.
Speaker 2:Another great bait and switch by Jack Schaefer. Yeah, you think the Salem Seven are a big deal. No, they're getting murked. Tower tower reversed bitch. Yeah, that's what she should have said, if I was writing the show, that's what the line would have been.
Speaker 1:No, mine would have been boom, you're looking for this, and then don cheadle somehow would have been a main character again in this show. Mine would have been lily saying tower reversed bitch then they got impaled on a ceiling of swords. That was great, Because you're thinking too. You're like, oh, they're going to come back. And then they did it. They were murdered. They were brutally murdered by Lillian. That time traveling witch killed the Salem Seven. Favorite cameo it's Ralph.
Speaker 2:Boner, that was incredible, best set.
Speaker 1:The best set the Road. The Road is quaint. The Road the main like we'll remix that one. What's your favorite trial um?
Speaker 2:I liked the.
Speaker 1:I I liked the the 80s Ouija board trial it's good stuff paid a lot of homage to movies, things like that. I thought that was pretty cool, I don't know why that I really I felt the most can. For some weird reason it was the episode eight trial, because this was like the ramp to get into your finale was the episode eight trial of like. And then you know, jen founding up and finding out that Agatha was the one that that bound her. Yeah, yeah, the modernistic nature of like. You know, I'm in a morgue and like this is it Like we're close to the end, like you can feel how close to the final piece, but there was a puzzle piece that was missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great. Yeah, that's a great pick Best 1v1?. I mean, the Agatha Rio showdown is pretty good. Yeah, I mean, the Agatha Rio showdown is pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think there's any.
Speaker 2:And it's cool this whole time you're kind of not rooting. You're not really rooting for Agatha, but when she gets her powers back and she's fully Agatha'd up, you're like yes. I'm thinking I'm back. I like that her costume comes with her powers. Yeah, yep, she got her powers back and all of a sudden, the big purple dress is back. She's basically Thor. At that point there is a Thor element. How did he braid his?
Speaker 1:beard. Nope, nope don't ask questions. Best heat check performance, it's Patti LuPone.
Speaker 2:Does she qualify for a heat check?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's like if you were in a game, an nba game, and like you had a solid like 15 going into the fourth, but then you like that's a, you're solid like prime for like a 25 point game. Billy's parents they're good, they're really good.
Speaker 2:That episode's really like sad it is really sad, properly sad, because, like these parents get their son back but don't realize that they're not his son, not their son and he's such a good person that he'll never say anything. He said I still don't know who they are but they're my parents, but they're my parents like I have a mom, is what he says to agatha, and you're just like oh, hey, I like that funniest moment oh, that's the teenager.
Speaker 2:Damn, use his full name. That got quite a chuckle out of me. Yeah, I wasn't expecting it.
Speaker 1:That's such a smart line I think it's agatha, as kate winslet of the mayor of east town is her over, like her over-exaggerated accent yep, and just her being the detective, the streaming detective, because, like I said, I think it's so smart if that was the last piece of television we didn't click into from total loser or totally lying?
Speaker 2:Let's find out.
Speaker 1:I think we found her by the water. When he said water, I couldn't believe it. He said we found her by the water. What did he say? Best exposition dump? Uh, I think it's one. It was probably the conversation between Agathon and Rio in episode eight, Because that gave the most like. This is we're getting there. I liked.
Speaker 2:See, it's funny. I might go back to episode seven. The out-of-sequence exposition dump that Lily is trying to give to Jen is pretty good, she's like.
Speaker 1:you already told me that's where we're going.
Speaker 2:This is the next trial. The son of the Scarlet Witch sent us down here. She's like he's the son of the Scarlet Witch. Yeah, you told me.
Speaker 1:You told me Best source material callback Wiccan Ghost Agatha.
Speaker 2:Ghost Agatha's pretty good. Ghost Agatha's pretty good. Ghost Agatha's good. That Wiccan costume is great. Yeah, did you see like the behind the scenes Of how the cape is put together? Right, it's like Elements of Wanda's cape and then elements of Vision's cape On the inside, right? I'm like that's cool, that is cool. Is he cool?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's cool, I'm Jack. He said I'm Joe Locke, y'all.
Speaker 2:Only Wiccan can make a bodysuit look cool with just a cape Right, it's just a tree man. But it's just Ghost Agatha that got me. I was like Ghost Agatha.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, is it? The road itself is the best source material callback it's like was Wizard of Ozzy. Well, that was the point. Agatha was the Wizard of Oz. I think Jack Schafer kind of talked about that too. That was one of the main, if not the main, inspiration for this show and it was a con it was Agatha all along. What?
Speaker 2:was the next one best NPC what's his name? The mustache when he's like peeking at Agatha and like Best NPC. What's his name? The mustache, when he's peeking at Agatha and she hits him. Emma Caulfield came back again. Remember when they thought she was Mephisto In WandaVision.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not that true. They thought she was Clea. Me too I did. She's just Dottie. It's just a tree man. It's just a tree man. It's just dotty. She's just dotty. It's just a tree man. It's just a tree. It's just a tree.
Speaker 2:Um favorite action sequence uh action sequence huh shows doesn't have a lot of action sequences, no, doesn't need them. I like the. I did like the little standoff with the, with the ghost agatha's mom. Yeah, that's where you see. See like Rio rock up for the first time.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, thinking long form about that Like it's a combination of our hatred for it's, like it's hating your, your, your girlfriend's mean mom. Yeah, that won't accept you. Mix with you. Just hating ghosts in general.
Speaker 2:Cause you're like you're deaf, so like that's another double meaning behind it. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:That was good. That's good. Best song 3, 2, 1, the Ballad of the Witch's Robe. Which version.
Speaker 2:I like the creepy Catherine Han solo version in episode 9, where she's singing it across time.
Speaker 1:Favorite musical moment. It's maybe all of them coming together to take off that horrifying demon that was after the band, yeah, the band moment, yeah.
Speaker 2:Favorite line oh man, that's a good one um, wait, you're looking for toby catherine on man. She's so good. Um, I, it's a. Um, what do you? Uh? Why do you let them say oh, or what she says? The real when she says the truth is too awful. You're like oof but also patty lapone. I loved being a witch. Like that moment. Yeah, it hits you. Hits you with like a ton of bricks, I think mine's gonna to be.
Speaker 1:You are just like your mother, who Favorite world building or lore moment. Let's go find your brother.
Speaker 2:I think it's the Honestly. I think it's the insertion of death into the MCU.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's big time, that's big time Favorite shot. It'sty falling at the beginning and subsequently end of that episode is quite incredible yeah I would agree with that favorite performance three, two, one, catherine, it's not hard sometimes but just a show littered with tremendous performances.
Speaker 2:Favorite character, um agatha I. I think that character was uniquely interesting in WandaVision and became even more interesting in the show Right, because she's not a good.
Speaker 1:Last one there is a nice person. I can't believe that Jack had the confidence to be like no she's and to end the show on that note.
Speaker 2:No, it's like she's the reinforcement of what she did and like she's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But she's not. She's not a nice person, no.
Speaker 1:It's going to be the teen slash, william Kaplan slash, most importantly for the nerds, billy Maximoff.
Speaker 2:I'm not that nice. I'm not that nice.
Speaker 1:Favorite moment.
Speaker 2:Man show has so many good ones. I think it's the tarot card reading it's it gives me chill, like I just got goosebumps when you just said that it's the score ramping up, it's the realization.
Speaker 1:It's also what? What a way to put the reveal of death into there, to sneak it in there too, because that reveal in of itself is not too much shock factor alone, but to put it in that stake moment like that really amplifies it.
Speaker 2:That's what works, and I love just the again that I can't believe when that episode tethers and weaves together and you, like you're, you're watching it happen. You're watching those moments tether together and you're watching them. You're watching lily or revisit moments that we have already seen in the show and they're weaving together. It's surreal to watch. It's like you're having an out-of-body experience. You're like you, you're waiting. You're waiting because this is how our brains work, not just our brains, but any brains. You're waiting for the, for the plot hole, right? You're waiting for this very complex, convoluted scene to fall apart and go aha, that doesn't make sense, but it all weaves together seamlessly. Yep, it's quite incredible, giving you know, all the members of each member of the coven getting attributed their own tarot to the moment, like you said, the death reveal to Lily, are really believing it and like when she's about to.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're about to leave and lilia you know, jen's like I'm not going before you and lilia goes.
Speaker 1:You're the path ahead, jennifer like I was like damn, I really love being a witch, and it's also to end the episode on her finally going to sit down, knowing, because her, her brain or her power doesn't work in a in a linear like that was the most linear that she was ever going to get is finally paying off back to her life as a circle. So she's like Dr Manhattan she only sees things as everything Her. She just has confusion behind hers, but she finally figured it out.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:How sweet. And that's Agatha all along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, mean, I'm just, I was stunned. I was stunned week in and week out, being like this show is incredible, um, just a great job. Great job all around. Keep doing this. Great job, jack. Keep doing these things. Keep doing stuff like this Marvel not the witchy stuff the witchy stuff is great, but just like good television. Good tell, do good television, not the witchy stuff the witchy stuff is great, but just like Good television, good tele, do good television.
Speaker 1:Do good television, good to television, with good characters and good writing. Nine episode minimum.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That was my spiel. Nine episode minimum.
Speaker 2:It's there, man, like it's there. And every show that they've done has had elements of this right. Every show has had moments. Hawkeye had moments, ms marvel had moments, moon night had moments. I would say this wanda vision loki probably put it together the most consistently right. Um falcon lunar soldier had moments. Falcon lunar soldier gets close to being consistent, but the the flag smasher stuff kind of hurts it pretty badly.
Speaker 1:Moon Knight is an example of getting a really complex and interesting character. But that's the perfect example of when people don't know what show. This is across the board that people's idea of what this show's tone should be were shifting from once it got on the page. People's idea of what this show's tone should be were shifting from before the. From once it got on the page. People's idea of what the show was like. I guarantee you call that. Call to Ethan Hawk and he says yes, I guarantee you his version of the show that he got was probably different from other people's versions of the show that they got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I mean, like you said, it's, it's it, it's the buy-in across the board, it's knowing what kind of show you wanted to make. And, crazy enough, it's about not telling the world which kind of show you want to make, Right, because we?
Speaker 1:didn't know. Experience it like you have to experience it. Be here with us.
Speaker 2:We didn't really know what the show was going to be. Nobody knew. Nobody knew what the show was going to be. Nobody knew what the idea was. The only reason the Wiccan and Rio stuff got out was because of Funko.
Speaker 1:Funko, let that cat out of the bag, that it was Wiccan and death Um and I can't stress enough that I owe this show the biggest apology on planet earth Me too.
Speaker 2:The biggest of apologies. I can admit when I'm wrong. I did not think. We did not think we needed this show. We thought it was. Like I said, my biggest fear for the show was they were just going to make it a meme and they were like look how wacky Catherine Han is.
Speaker 1:Am I wacky or am I kooky?
Speaker 2:And then they made that line emotional, like I thought this was going to be the Catherine Han one-woman show starring some other people, and that's not what it was it was. And again, like the refrain to your point, the unabashed confidence to say she is not a good person. At the end of this is just she's agatha harkness.
Speaker 2:She doesn't need to fit into anybody else's mode it's so rare, especially this marvel stuff, for them to just be like this person is bad, so they're bad people, but we can still make them compelling. It's her. Loki did this until he made his turn, thanos. Thanos is incredibly compelling, like agatha's on that pedestal.
Speaker 1:As far as MCU villains, she just is, and that's the point. She is a villain.
Speaker 2:And I said it to you the other day has a casting ever been more impactful for the MCU aside from Downey, than this For the character? Because Agatha Harkness was what D-list E what D-list, e-list, f-list yeah, but because of Catherine Han, like this character is in the zeitgeist now, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Like I guarantee you, comics are going to start. Comics already started doing it. Agatha Harkness is like young now and like younger now and she looks like Catherine Han Right, and you know, star lord went through that like star lord. Nick fury, nick fury famously went through that yep, no, she's in midnight suns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, video game. Yeah, agatha plays a pretty prominent role in that. I still love that game. Go play midnight suns if you haven't played it. It's a great, great bit of marvel story storytelling right right up there. Guardians of the galaxy oof, what I've been dying to replay that game.
Speaker 1:What a game remember when we were playing that game we were like wait a minute, is this one of the best stories? Is this movie? Is this game cooking? It had lore. The lore was detailed, it was thought out, but those characters were so amazing characters, man characters drive it, at least for us big character guys over here we are big character guys.
Speaker 2:We love characters and character actor Alfred Molina. We do love Alfred Molina. That's it. It was Agatha all along.
Speaker 1:Damn. Billy really made the road himself, just like his mama.
Speaker 2:Yep. And she said unlike your mother, you actually did something interesting with your powers. Yeah, she's always got to just kick Wanda one more time, which is great, and that's the thing. I am looking forward to seeing those two together again, but in ghost form, and imagine just the fire and fury when Wanda sees her son that she's been looking for for years with Agatha Harkness.
Speaker 1:And on top of that, what Wanda's probably going to think is that Agatha probably told her son like that's not your mom, that's not your mom, even though that's his own idea, like there's so much, there's so much more meat on the Wanda Maximoff bone and I've said this before and I'll say it again, like till I'm, till I'm told otherwise or proven wrong.
Speaker 2:That is one of the most dimensional, compelling characters that they have in the mcu.
Speaker 1:That episode nine really locked that in.
Speaker 2:Wow, really locked that in wanda is the emotional core of the mcu and to see that character again is going to be an absolute treat, especially the fact that they're able to, if they can, continue this into the vision thing and build on this even more, like there is a really special payoff coming that I'm very excited for.
Speaker 1:I'm watching the three of those things all together. You're going to need to watch Multiverse of Madness. Sorry, but seeing the four of those projects kind of weaved all into whatever the Scarlet Witch payoff movie would be, how do you do this Wanda movie? That's the question. Well, you're probably gonna have to link this to the Young Avengers as well too.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe it's something like once you know it's kind of like. She's kind of like a. She becomes kind of like a, like a Horcrux where, like Billy's awoken, tommy awakens, vision awakens, and then Wanda's like whoop, like I'm back, like my family is tethered back together and now she comes back.
Speaker 1:Well, what I'm thinking is also whoever the main villain of that movie is she. That villain pulled her out right before she was crushed. Rio could have been real to be like hey, you need to die. Oh, like I said, it can be a thing to be like wanda, you know it's, it was wanda all along. Like rio's, like it's your time to go. But then, like I said, what's the only thing more powerful than death? A being with the ability to create life.
Speaker 2:That's what every mother does.
Speaker 1:And then Billy's like you're not my mom. This is why they don't let us write it, because we would have just put all those lines one after another, after another. We can't help it, agatha it was agatha all along. She should have sung the song again. No, jack sheriff was like no, she's not singing the song again I thought we were gonna get the song again. To be fair, or another song, but we didn't need it.
Speaker 2:no, we got the battle of the witches road and that was enough. Um cool. Next week we're probably gonna do venom, venom, venom, venom, ba-da-da-da. It's the third Venom.
Speaker 1:Chantel Adjofor is in this one. For some reason, noel's in this one. Noel is in this one, played by Andy Serkis.
Speaker 2:What the I can't wait. $300 million. It's making money.
Speaker 1:It is making money. And to their point, I think they think in their head like, yeah, the Spider-Men in here, bitches, love Venom. They're really going to do the King in Black story for Spider-Man 4. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are.
Speaker 1:And they're not afraid to say it either.
Speaker 2:Why we're cooking. Let this man cook, no, let this studio cook.
Speaker 1:We gotta go man.
Speaker 2:We do gotta go. You can follow us on Twitter at Project INF underscore pod. You can follow us on Wait, what did I say?
Speaker 1:Did I say Twitter?
Speaker 2:You can follow us on Twitter. Follow us on Twitter at Project Infinite underscore pod. I almost said it twice. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTubecom slash Project Infinite pod. You can follow us on Instagram at the Project Infinite pod. You can follow us on TikTok TikTok yes, the TikTok's up. We don't have video, but we have clips. Joker.
Speaker 1:We gotta get an editing guy to just put the comic panels over it and like the movie screenshots and things like that. We won't pay, but you'll have fun. We're looking for an intern.
Speaker 2:Why'd you make the first movie then?
Speaker 1:One of my best lines.
Speaker 2:That's pretty good, you can follow us on TikTok, the Project Infinite pod. You can follow us on Facebook. That's it Next week we're gonna talk about venom venom, venom, venom they ain't gonna know what hit them.
Speaker 2:Not you, father. You father, they did it. Get that man an oscar. Get that symbiote an oscar. Let this man cook. They should put carnage in the next deadpool movie, specifically that version of carnage. Yeah, um, uh, all right, that's it from me. From the oh, a lot of good choices to pick this week. Uh man, oh man. From the Careful, I do gotta be careful still.
Speaker 1:One day I'm gonna make it, so you have to do it. It's gonna be funny.
Speaker 2:From the Don't Don't what. I was gonna say the Agatha Harkness. I was gonna say the Billy Kaplan of the podcast. I'm not that nice he is, though. I was going to say the Billy Kaplan of the podcast. I'm not that nice he is, though he doesn't want you to think that, but he is. I'm not that nice. I'm not that nice man. I love his acting switch, yeah, from when he goes from teen to Billy Kaplan, he's like, oh, he's a little sinister, this kid, this guy. And he's got the glowy hands, mm-hmm. Then the Billie Eilish song played Good stuff. He got a crown. He got a Scarlet Witch crown. Yep, good for him. I'm happy. I'm happy for him. Who's going to play his brother?
Speaker 1:question mark well, you know you need the other guy from heartstopper to play hulkling. Yeah, who do you get to play his brother? Trying to think of these like young adult shows that are running right now buddy from, uh, buddy from 13 reasons why?
Speaker 2:which one? The freaking main character?
Speaker 1:no, no no, no he's, he doesn't give off speed guy enough.
Speaker 2:Oh, you need a speed guy, huh, you need like a.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what. What's his name? From Outer Banks, the friend character from Outer Banks, if he wasn't, I mean, how old is Jolok? He's like 20. Jolok's young, if the kid that we wanted to play Johnny Storm, if he was a little bit younger.
Speaker 2:He's 21 now.
Speaker 1:If the guy from Outer Banks was a little younger he would have been a great speed. I forgot what his name is Patty something. Patty Considine Nope that's not it, patty Considine is speed, this grown adult that was getting bullied and that was drowned.
Speaker 2:And he's British for some reason, and he's British for some reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't let him lose his accent Patty Considine.
Speaker 2:Matt Smith, matt Smith, he could do it. They could have me believe that Matt Smith is a teenage guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2:Wow, good for Joe Locke.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right. Yeah, I guess we'll see these characters again. Vision Quest I didn't think I was excited for it, and now I'm excited for it.
Speaker 1:Now I'm kinda like I'm interested what do y'all?
Speaker 2:you had my attention, now you. You had my curiosity, now you have my attention. Marvel and James Spader's coming back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he is James Spader, who's not done anything since.
Speaker 2:Age of Ultron. Yeah, not done anything since Age of Ultron. So crazy. He did Blacklist. He did Age of Ultron.
Speaker 1:He said Y'all take it easy.
Speaker 2:James Spader, you want to be Ultron again. He's like sure.
Speaker 1:He's like no, they're like here's $1 billion. He said. You see, the thing about meteors, the purity of them. Ultron had some bars. We might need to talk about Age of Ultron one day I'm down cause. I think that is one of the most underrated Marvel movies that there's ever been there were a dozen extinction level events before even the dinosaurs got theirs.
Speaker 2:Every time the earth settles, god throws the stones at it and trust me, and trust me, he's winding up. You know, this church is in the center of this town, god throws the stones at it and, trust me, he's winding up.
Speaker 1:You know, this church is in the center of this town, so everybody can be equally as close to God. He said it's so funny, the geometry. He said the geometry of belief. What was?
Speaker 2:he cooking. Yo, yo, yo Yo, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The human race will have every opportunity to improve. And if they don't ask, noah Jesus. You know what my favorite line of Ultron is, and it's not even like a philosophical line. It's the inner Starkism of when he's flying away and the hulk jumps into the back of the quinjet and you just hear ultron off screen.
Speaker 1:Oh, for god's sake why would he even say that there's no god? He believes he was. So done with the adventures, bro.
Speaker 2:he said, oh, for god's sake, like, like, the Hulk just ravaged him. Yeah, we are going to drop, we are going to do Age of Ultron.
Speaker 1:At some point yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where'd her accent go? Alright, guys, we'll see you next week for Venom. Until then, goodbye Peace.
