The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
139 - Dissecting "The Penguin" & Denzel Washington Entering the MCU
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Two weeks in a row we are recapping a show that we weren’t sure we needed but after it ended, we loved the fact we got it. This week’s episode is recapping Max’s The Penguin series set in the Matt Reeves Batman Universe. We praise the star performances of Colin Farrell and Cristin Milioti while lamenting the depths Matt Reeves and company went to solidify Oz as one of Gotham’s most heinous criminals. Before that we dissect a ton of news and mourn the loss of legendary horror and voice actor Tony Todd. Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
01:44 Tony Todd Passes Away at 69
03:57 Lupita Nyongo cast in Christopher Nolan’s Next Film
07:40 Macauley Culkin Joins Fallout
14:01 Simon Kinberg to Write New Star Wars Trilogy
23:36 Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning Trailer
27:55 Marvel Trailers: Cap 4, Thunderbolts & What If…?
47:52 Denzel Washington Details His Remaining Films INCLUDING BLACK PANTHER
01:01:58 The Penguin Discussion & Review. FULL SPOILERS AHEAD
01:58:48 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: Venom: The Last Dance Review
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Speaker 1My God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Rob and Kork the Cube.
Speaker 2Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom for movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We got you covered. I'm rob. I'm here, as always, with court court. We're recapping another tv series this week. Yeah, we are talking about the penguin the batman's the penguin from the batman, the batman buzz. What's star wars do star wars story? Oh, the penguin, a star of the penguin oh, this penguin a.
Speaker 1What does Star Wars do? Star Wars stories, oh, the Penguin of Star Wars. The Penguin, oh the Penguin of Star Wars story. That's much funnier.
Speaker 2The Penguin of the Batman story, Right, yeah, so we talked about Agatha all along last week and that was really really good.
Speaker 1Yeah, and the Penguin was also really really good, and they both do roundabout similar things to each other.
Speaker 2Yes, similar things to each other, yes, and they both do a thing that you should do, as it pertains to like a tv show when you're centralizing around a villainous character is you don't redeem them, no, don't make them cool. They're bad people, um, and this show did a great job of doing that. Um, through way of the uh, the can, the cannon fodder character, which we're going to talk about as we talk about the show um. So, yeah, we're going to talk about the penguin and a bunch of other stuff, starting with, unfortunately, some some sad news um from the world of entertainment, and that is that tony todd, um notable actor and later voice actor, um, has passed away at the age of 69.
Speaker 2Um, tony todd, I mean this guy, just an incredible, incredible career obviously. Candy man, obviously, is what his, his calling card is, um, what he's probably best known for, I would say um, on this on the screen, and then, obviously, voice acting, also a very prolific career career, um, we would, we, we know him best as the voice of zoom on the flash tv series, um, that I you know, and a voice that he carried over into many, many other voice roles, that kind of iconic, like growl.
Speaker 1I can't even really describe the voice I mean it's, it's ever present, mean it's one of those voices that kind of looms on you and it weighs on you and the presence alone just weighs on you. And these stink man, these always suck and it's horrible to talk about every single time too. And for somebody that didn't live a full life on top of that too, that's where it truthfully hurts. But, like you said, like from the flash, like that was my introduction to tony todd, obviously he would. He voiced venom in the spider-man movie.
Speaker 1It's just one of those voices that like, as I was getting older, like his voice just became so synonymous with, like all this entertainment that I love too. So thank you so much, tony, for providing, you know, such great voices and such great. You know there's a, there's a nuance to him as well too, and it's not just like he's got the low, gravelly voice, it's like there's this like for lack of better term I mean the characters that there's like this pain that comes along with this, like this ominous pain that comes with it too. So it's, it's well done, like it could be gimmickish for to do something like that too. But it never felt like that. It just felt like it was tony being incredible.
Speaker 2Yeah, I remember talking about Spider-Man 2 when the voice of Venom was first revealed as Tony Todd and something about it, I was like, yes, that just makes sense. Why wasn't Tony Todd Venom in other things before this? And then you heard the voice, obviously in Spider-Man 2, and you were like, oh yeah, this is flawless. So, yeah, it's just a shame, just one of those iconic, iconic um actors and voice actors, um, that will sorely, sorely be missed, um, in tony todd. Um. On to the news of the week, other news of the week so, um, we're back. We're back with christopher nolan movie casting news. Um, it's ramping up again, like we did with Oppenheimer. Every week it feels like we're adding to this cast of this new Christopher Nolan film, and this week is no different, as Lupita Nyong'o has been casted in this Christopher Nolan movie that's coming out. So he's already assembling, you know, again, much like he did with Oppenheimer, he is assembling a star-studded cast for his next film.
Speaker 1Yeah, I kind of love this way he's been operating too. I feel like it's kind of cool Every single one of the last two movies he's done. He's putting together this all-star cast and even dating back to like you talk about Tenet. I remember when Tenet started to ramp up, robert Pattinson obviously he'd already been cast as Batman by the time that movie came out and you know, including myself I was just like you know, this is a good prelude to what his Bruce Wayne could look like eventually, like I do think his Bruce Wayne will still have an assemblance of that at some points.
Speaker 1But when the casting started to roll through and obviously for Oppenheimer, people started to look and I mean, after you make Oppenheimer, which I there's, you could split it any other way. I just, I can't, you cannot deny that's not one of the great, it's one of the greatest movies that's ever been released. That is one of the greatest movies of all time. So notoriety is going to come with this. So how do you add notoriety onto somebody like christopher nolan and I mean it's through casting, it's through personnel is a good way to kind of go about it too. So, tom holland, obviously that's a big get and I and I'm just very happy for tom holland too that he gets to lead a movie like this.
Speaker 1Matt damon on top of that too. But I mean, now you're just adding straight up talent, like with somebody like gupita niyago on top of that too. I mean an oscar winner on top of that too. It never hurts to add to your cast. And then you know, I believe zendaya said she's like only in, like a it's a bit of a cameo almost in the movie. You know what somebody said they, they were just like no, don't do the inception dead wife thing again. Don't do it.
Speaker 2Um he, he might do it. Don't do it, Don't do it.
Speaker 1Chris, if you're, if you're listening and obviously you do he does.
Speaker 1Don't do it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this movie, me too. This brand new technology for him to use, which I think is going to be a prerequisite with a Christopher Nolan movie. Imax is going to be like here try this thing that we just made. It's cool. It's cool. And then also, on top of that, the premise is we're getting back into this action realm, which I think is really cool for Christopher Nolan. So I'm really looking forward. I mean, it's a Christopher Nolan movie with an and hopefully he does the thing where each week somebody gets added.
Speaker 2Yeah, I can't wait to see who's going to be added.
Speaker 1Maybe it's a helicopter horror movie about evil helicopters, evil helicopters, ai helicopters that have their own minds.
Speaker 2If anyone can make it work, it's Christopher Nolan. Absolutely yeah, I totally agree. I can't wait to see who else rounds out this cast. I know Oppenheimer is littered with, obviously, a a to C list kind of actors that you know. I think the cool thing about Oppenheimer is, like you know, you had obviously you had your Matt Damon's, you had your. You know everyone that was in that movie. But then like you run like Jack Quaid popped up in that movie for like two seconds, josh Peck's in that movie for like two seconds. Josh peck's in that movie. Josh peck rounded it out for like a scene, like it feels like one of those things. It's like playing for the spurs, like like you're kind of like a big deal like in your own you know realm of of things, but then christopher nolan calls you to be like in a scene for like two seconds and you're like yep I'll do that, do anything you need me to yeah, it's like playing on the Olympic basketball team, right Like Jason Tatum, like didn't play in the Olympics even though he just won.
Speaker 2Like the finals MVP.
Speaker 1Jalen Brown didn't even make the team Right, so like there's big actors that didn't even make this team, so for you to get called is great.
Speaker 2Right, so that's cool. More casting news. Macaulay Culkin, famed child actor, turned. You know I'm happy for him, the way his life has turned out, Really, really good stuff. But he's been cast in Fallout Season 2, Amazon's kind of surprise hit that we were both really really big fans of. And I think that's great. I think he weirdly enough.
Speaker 1What did I say to you before we hopped on? I said Macaulay Culkin might be the most Fallout human being. He fits right in. He fits right in and it's nothing we can put our fingers on. No, it's nothing we can overtly explain. He just, he just works.
Speaker 2Yeah, he just fits right in to.
Speaker 1And he fits into the role both ways. If you really want to put him in that retro future piece, he can fit in there. To the conspiracy of all tech.
Speaker 2There's no shot. They let him play what's his name from New Vegas, right? Oh yeah, oh, that would be interesting. Yeah, I mean they had him show up in the last season, but I mean the guy was in it for like two seconds. I do think that's going to be a big part of it. Oh, you're right. You're right. Is the New Vegas like the Robco stuff and that stuff? Because, obviously, spoiler alert, at the end of season two or at the end of season one, lucy's dad escapes his comeuppance and he absconds to new vegas, which had a lot of people excited, right, and I'm also excited, man, that show was so good I wonder if they're gonna do a week-to-week model.
Speaker 2I don't know if we talked about this when we talked about season one. Yeah, I mean because we we did.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, one of the big things we it was a big piece we talked about was the was the idea of hey, this is a show you need to hook people. Like the last of us is already an ip, that from your first episode you were going to have people hooked. You can do week to week it's event television, but like something like this, like you need to get the half of there's, the niche nerds like us, that'll be like fallout show, sure, but then you need to get everybody else and the in that model of I can truck through. This thing is good. So I think, possibly because the Boys essentially is your main event television for Amazon Prime, that is like your flagship show.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then like Invincible is like kind of like next tier down, I would say.
Speaker 1I feel like Fallout can maybe take over for Invincible, but I do. I like the full season all at once.
Speaker 2I like the fact that I can.
Speaker 1I thought that was really good. But again things might change, because Maybe that's an experiment we can do Look at some shows and think about if they came out all at the same time. Does it help or hurt? Give me a show. Give me a show that was week to week.
Speaker 2I mean Agatha All Along is like right, agatha All Along. Funny enough, did like both.
Speaker 1It did like a hybrid Right.
Speaker 2Because it did the first two and the last two as pairs and then did week to week. So I think that's an interesting. That's also an interesting kind of maneuver as well.
Speaker 1And you could probably bet that on a lot of these Amazon shows that they'll give you the first two to three instead of just giving you the first episode, especially for the last season of the Boys. They're definitely going to give you the first two to three because this is it Invincible same thing. They're probably going to give you the first two. Maybe Fallout does that. They do a two-episode premiere.
Speaker 2And then retroactively, I think about a show like daredevil yeah, like if daredevil had been like week to week.
Speaker 1I'm sorry, like I love that show and but you need that train rolling, like you need. You need to build on the crime. You know the crime thriller. You need to build on the courtroom drama on top of that too, and you need to build these characters, like you. But you all need that all at once. And it's the fallout idea of like this is new, like people need to get used to this. Like all the stuff marvel ip that you had had up until that point was movies and agents of shield. Like this is completely different. Like this doesn't even feel like a marvel show. Right, so that give it to me all at once.
Speaker 2I can binge and be like, oh, I actually love this character, but I needed it all at once yeah, and it tells like uh, I think also the way the episode structure is in daredevil, like there wasn't a ton of you could tell that show was designed to come out all at once. Because what these week-to-week shows did and I think agatha and and the penguin also did this really, really well and it's that what you need in a week-to-week thing is like these hooks at the end of each well that's event.
Speaker 1Television 101. It's like you. You need this thing to draw people back and to be like I and again shout out to agatha because I hadn't felt that for a marvel show in a while. To be like, oh I to keep I need this I need this and the penguin.
Speaker 1The penguin kind of blended both of those things because the penguin said, hey, like this is event television, but we're gonna tell a really grounded story on top of that and a really complex story on top of that and I mean we'll talk about it once we talk about the penguin. Like the cross between the two of the two and the similarities to the two are they were apparent. Like these.
Speaker 2These shows are like more intertwined than you would ever believe yep, yeah, 100 um, but layman's terms, bringing back to macaulay culkin, I think it's a great get. Um, it feels like something that you know where he's at. Um, for some reason, I thought of an actor that is kind of into doing these weird, relatively low-budget niche things that would also probably fit really well in this Fallout universe. That's Daniel Radcliffe. I was thinking the same thing, that's insane.
Speaker 1I was thinking the exact same thing. I literally had his image in my head. That's insane. I was thinking the exact same thing. I literally had his image in my head.
Speaker 2That's insane that you said I literally was just like.
Speaker 1Daniel Radcliffe would be really good for this. That's wild. I was thinking the exact same thing. He would put up incredible numbers in a universe like this.
Speaker 2I feel like he would do really, really well in a Fallout thing, so I've given Radcliffe a call.
Speaker 1Remember when he did what movie, oh, swiss Army man, directed by the Daniels, who went on to win Best Director. He did that Weird Al movie Let the Daniels do an episode of. If the Daniels could do an episode of Star Wars, let them do an episode of Fallout, that episode would be crazy. Oh, that would be awesome. Let them do you know what episode they should take. They should do the episode where they reveal all the vaults and let them go through all the vaults and how all these vaults are insanely effed up.
Speaker 2Yeah, just start getting weird character actors in this Fallout show.
Speaker 1I think you got a niche there, willem Dafoe is screaming at being something like this.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, star Wars news. So we got. Obviously the Andor stuff is ramping up.
Speaker 1Yeah, got a first look. Disney did a little sizzle reel of all the first looks. Yeah, andor was in there and I mean I can't say enough. It's the same reaction when I watched X-Men 97. It's the same reaction. You are watching some truthfully incredible and relevant television and it's like you need to kind of bear witness to it.
Speaker 2Yep, we're getting obviously the Rogue incredible and relevant television and it's like you need to kind of bear witness to it. Yep, um, we're getting the obviously the rogue one stuff um is starting to ramp up. We got a new look at Ben Mendelsohn coming back. Um, we got a first look at K2SO coming back.
Speaker 1My King return.
Speaker 2Yep, um, and yeah, it's going to be a 12 episode season. Um, 12 episode season, I think they said what. Every four episodes there's going to be a time jump. This will be the last season of the show, because the season finale is going to bleed right into the beginning of Rogue One and I'm just really excited for that.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know it's funny to me and I don't know. I don't think he'd do this because Disney would probably restrain him in some ways. It's the thing we're going to talk about in a second the new direction for Star Wars as a whole. But would Tony Gilroy not be the guy that you'd want to spearhead this thing? I mean, I would think so, but it's not going to happen because you need to sell toys at the end of the day.
Speaker 2Yeah, which leads into the other news, and that is notable producer of mostly Fox properties. Historically, simon Kinberg is being tapped to not direct, obviously, because he's not a director guy, he's more like a writer and a producer. Creator, I mean, he's got a hell of a resume. Yeah, x-men movies he's written. He was the creator of Star Wars Rebels. Um. X-men movies Um, he's written. Um. He was the creator of star Wars rebels. Um, he developed the twilight zone reboot.
Speaker 2Um, he was an excessive producer. He pretty much was the executive producer or writer of a lot of the Fox X-Men stuff. Um, the later Fox X-Men stuff last stand, first class days of future past he wrote. Um, and that was one Last Stand, first Class Days of Future Past he wrote, and that's one of the best X-Men movies. Yeah, he wrote Mr and Mrs Smith, the 2005 movie, which is really, really good. So he's being tabbed as like the kind of like the creative force of a new Star Wars trilogy. People for the longest time have been speculating what, if ever, that was ever going to happen. Obviously there was stuff surrounding the character of Rey with Daisy Ridley, some Old Republic stuff. So now it appears that this is going to be like a new trilogy, a continuation of the Skywalker saga, quote-unquote that Daisy Ridley is apparently going to be a part of, and I mean it's a I don't know I'm so torn on something like this I mean this bleeds into a bigger conversation about you know just where Star Wars is right now.
Speaker 1And I mean before we hopped on and we've said it on here before we joked we were like why didn't we just get a Mandalorian season four? Like why did we need a? Why did we get a movie that like got secret? Like this movie just got filmed, it wrapped filming and it just like nothing happened. Secret, like this movie just got filmed, it wrapped filming and just like nothing happened. Yeah, and I was like how do you, how'd you do that? Like there's so much secret nature.
Speaker 1There's such a secret nature to like. I think star wars kind of lost that train and I I don't even necessarily think it was 2019, I think it was the. I think it was a combination of a couple things. It was how spoiled we got with the television. For some aspects, like when the Mandalorian was good, it was great. Andor is one of. You can just go beyond Star Wars. Andor is just some of the best television that I've seen. So I think it was a combination of that. I think it was.
Speaker 1You know I'm not naive. I think it was people's disdain for the new trilogy as well too, and their unacceptance of it. But star wars, just it was such this thing where, like, if you're going to continue the skywalker saga, like just kind of just relax a bit, like I felt like there were so many over complications and obviously direction is a big thing, like they, they didn't have a clear vision of what they wanted and you switch directors back to the other director for three movies. It's a. That's an absurd way to kind of go about it. So I I don't know, I'm kind of like you, I don't know like I'm like, I'm very like, I want to be like this is good, this is like. I don't really have an opinion yet. Yeah, I mean, is there anything you want to see out of this trilogy?
Speaker 2um, I mean, we've kind of touched upon this before about like what Star Wars kind of needs, and it needs a little bit of, just a little bit of different and it needs a little, you know, really commit to like a new idea or a new premise. I know a lot of the insiders speak on this new trilogy is people are concerned that Star Wars is just like a nostalgia feeder and funny enough, like I think it's the stuff that hasn't been over relying on the nostalgia.
Speaker 1that's been the best stuff that they've done in recent memory I mean, you can look at the jedi games and how, how much we love those and it's because, like that, here you still have this character that was inserted into this time, that we are so familiar with in star wars, yet it felt so new and fresh. You look at at Andor this is another character that was here. We had seen this character before, but then you release the show and again it's all about personnel, it's all about writing, it's all about what you're putting into this movie from a fact of. Again, it's the episode of Black Mirror.
Speaker 1Nostalgia is a drug. It's a dangerous game to play, because once you get nostalgia, people want to come back for it and come back for it and like I talk, you know, to the mountains about this. Like I think that's one of no way home's biggest shortcomings is like the, you, you have such this heavy rely on nostalgia. Like what about the? What about the movie? Like what about the movie you're making? So, yeah, and what nostalgia do you pull from now? Like there's no nostalgia from that sequel trilogy.
Speaker 2Like where do you go? Well, Rey is going to be the nostalgia now.
Speaker 1Which I like. But like I mean I've already talked about how I think what they did to John Boyega was like it's borderline unforgivable what you did to him, because I guarantee you they promised like you're going to be a Jedi, like, why would you not? Like it was one of the easiest layups I had ever seen in my life. What stormtrooper just gets woken up like that? Obviously, the Force did that to him and they set it up. As well as that, we stopped cloning and we started taking people. This is the easiest setup to make this guy a Jedi. This is so easy. They just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I guess what I'm fearful of is the idea of bringing back Rey. I don't think they should. I don't think that character has been on enough of a journey that they can Luke Skywalker her and time jump and she's going to be an older version of Rey.
Speaker 1Now they could use that to their advantage to usurp what Luke was. They could be like she's not finished herself. She also needs to learn a little bit herself. They could use that to their advantage to kind of usurp, you know, the like what luke was. Like they could be like she's not finished herself, like she also needs to learn a little bit herself, but she's trying to do some good also.
Speaker 1What's the eat like, what's the evil? Like that's something that george lucas did so well of. Like at the end of the day, there's good and bad. Like there's there is good and there is some bad, but then there's nuance that comes with that too. Like yeah, it's not overtly black and white, yep, but I I'm so torn like how do you go about this? Like obviously you're gonna have a new main character. Just who do you you gotta, what do you gotta do? Is you gotta go to through the rolodex? You gotta get your main characters gotta be. I think this time you gotta go with somebody that's known like you gotta get a name of somebody that's like an established actor that is like ready for a journey and ready to like you got to be ready for anything like this can be career suicide or this can be the biggest boost to your career that you can ever ask for any names.
Speaker 2Hop out at you for somebody you would want to see in there um man, I don't even know like it feels like a lot of people are kind of like in their niche right now so like if as much as like yeah, you, I feel like you do need that kind of like a known quantity, like, at the same time, like what known quantity is gonna attach themselves to this?
Speaker 1yeah, this is such a tough one, unless you switch direction. And, like I said, I, it's one of those things where it's like it's it's a plot detail, it's a major plot detail. But it was the killing of adam driver. Like this guy was the best actor in your movies and you killed him. Like you killed the one drive, like one of the biggest, no pun intended driving forces of this thing. You killed him when he got super interesting. You killed him at the most interesting he had ever been. Yeah, so because I mean I I will scream this to the end of the till I'm blue in the face you should have kept him alive. You should have tried to restart the Jedi. And everybody's like what the Is that? Kylo Ren? No shot. Like that plays. Like that actually plays. Yeah, like you should have had Rey. Just be a nobody. Like that's the point. Like you do not have to be from somebody else, just be a nobody, that's the point.
Speaker 2You do not have to be from somebody else, you are just you. That's it. Yeah, I mean, I guess the silver lining of all this is that Kinberg is going to be writing all three of these movies, so hopefully you don't end up with that disjointedness Right that the sequel trilogy suffers from.
Speaker 1And I think that's what they know they're like we need. This is one straight narrative. I'm trying to think of an actor that I would want to see. Steven Yeun would be fun for something like this, maybe even in a villainous role, not even in a straight hero role. I feel like he would be somebody that's like. I feel like he can put in some work there too.
Speaker 2He's such a good hero, though he's such a good hero archetype person. Yeah, it'd be a great choice to anchor the franchise with.
Speaker 1Yeah, I feel like he would be kind of cool. I'll think of other names as time goes on.
Speaker 2Mission Impossible got a trailer, a trailer and a rebrand. It is not Dead Reckoning Part 2 anymore, it is the Final Reckoning Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning two anymore. It is the final reckoning mission impossible, the final reckoning. Um, obviously the sequel to dead reckoning what was? It is kind of weird now. Yeah, it's dead reckoning part one and then the final reckoning yeah, well, it's just the dead reckoning, dead reckoning um, but yeah, I mean, this trailer was phenomenal.
Speaker 1I mean, this franchise is phenomenal, much like we talked about when we talked about Mission Impossible 7. This franchise is stellar. Or is this the ninth one, if I'm not mistaken?
Speaker 2I can't remember if this is eight or nine, nine, Nine.
Speaker 1This is just a phenomenal franchise and I mean, I remember when I had my rewatch, because I think I did it in in three days, I think I did three. No, I think I did it in two days. I did three, three, one and then, and then I we went to go see, um see, uh, dead reckoning, and I, I said I was sitting there I'm like, imagine like you have the stumbles in this franchise of two, like this franchise could have been dead after two, like this franchise very well could have been over. But you know, you have Tom Cruise as your through line, like such a charismatic main character, main lead. But also it's the biggest compliment that I can give to these movies and any movie that Tom Cruise is on man. He is committed to this, but in a good way, like he is full out committed to like we are making. We are going to do the cinema one way or the or another.
Speaker 1I I told you that plane sequence sets in here that they teased as like we'll see at the movies. Like yeah, yeah, buddy, like you see this in the trailer, you're like, oh, like we're, I'm about it when we get to the captain america trailer of, like I have some like I watch this trailer and I watch that trailer and I'm like, obviously I'm a nerd, so I love that trailer. But then I watch this trailer. I'm like this why are we, why can't this be every movie in hollywood that's above like 200 million dollar budget, like sure? Why are we not committing to having this good looking of a movie, this, this committed? It's the like you always joke about the immersion man. Like I'm immersed, like you got me, yep.
Speaker 2You got me. Yeah, I mean, this movie is going to be a not just, you know, a pairing with the directing, but also like a culmination of all these Mission Impossible movies.
Speaker 1If you really want to talk about it, you can split these movies three ways. You can split these into one, two, three, four, five, six and seven, eight, nine, if you really want to. Because, yeah, one, two, three.
Speaker 1It had the end of the 90s action and and you made a great point about how these movies evolved with how action evolved over the years like it had that 90s grunge action in the uh, when this, when the first movie came out in 96, then you transitioned into your john like matrix adjacent action for second one, your third one was like your, your Jason Bourne-esque type of action, and then you get into four, four, five, six. It's like, you know, the superhero movies had a lot of influence, the John Wick movies had a lot of influence on the action and now it's like they're like events now, like they're it's like your event type of action. So I I mean it's it's the commit, that's, that's the best, it's like my one word summary it's it's commitment, like commit to the finish, commit to cinema at the end of the day yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1Um big rave says cancer in this one. That's gotta be the thing, right like. Why is he in like a hospital bed the whole time and he's getting and he's giving ominous mentor speeches in?
Speaker 2this Because Finn Reigns in these Mission Impossible movies will do anything he can to not be in the field.
Speaker 1Yeah, Remember when he was a villain in the first one.
Speaker 2Yeah, so this will just be the next evolution of that, or the last one.
Speaker 1It's the final reckoning, rob. It is the final reckoning. This is it, the final reckoning Again. This is like a tripled up Star Wars trilogy, because there's nine of these things, but he wants to keep the. I think what he's going to do is he's going to transition into the full out producer role after this one. Yeah, so you heard what he wants. He wants Glenn Powell to kind of take the reins. Obviously Makes so much sense obviously makes so much sense.
Speaker 2Miles teller somewhere. Um, speaking of that captain america trailer, we did get a trio of marvel things. You start with what? If yeah, we'll talk about the one of trailer first um, it's the final season.
Speaker 1It's all these final things the final season of what? If um confirms the mult, the marvel multiverse is going to collapse as well, too. It's the only thing that makes sense. Yeah, the watchers like what is happening. Yeah, as well too.
Speaker 2It's the only thing that makes sense, yeah, the.
Speaker 1Watchers are like what is happening? Yeah, the Watchers said what the universe is oh no, oh no, no.
Speaker 2My job, my job security, my job security.
Speaker 1It's over. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be fired. He's unemployed. He's going to be let go he's being relieved of his duties. He is being relieved.
Speaker 2So, yeah, this is the final season. It's only eight episodes and hopefully this is a return to form from the first season, where it's just wacky stuff. Give me wacky stuff happening.
Speaker 1Unfortunately, I think you're wrong. I think they're going to do it for a little bit, but I think it's the fact that it's only eight episodes. Apparently, the reports out of Marvel Studios is they want to be done with this multiverse thing ASAP. They want to get out of this as fast as possible. And I mean you saw how well-received the X-Men were. You have the Fantastic Four ramping up, like get out of this if you can Get out of this. So I do see the potential to be like hey, let's just do what's right in the title, like what if? What if Shang-Chi was a cowboy? What if Shang-Chi was a cowboy? I'm going to ask you at the end I'm going to spoil what my favorite idea from this season is. My favorite idea is the Bucky and Red Guardian being Captain and Captain Bucky instead. But like they're like that's got to be like the 80s, right. Like they're like that's gotta be like the eighties, right, like that's like prime eighties, Like, yeah, I think that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2It's pretty cool. Um, we got some cool stuff in this. We got um Moon Knight, Moon Knight is in this Um, you have the Power Ranger Avengers. Yeah, the uh, the Gundam. Yeah, I a lot of Riri Williams in this too. A lot of Riri Williams. Agatha, a lot of Agatha in here too, a lot of Agatha, of course. Who?
Speaker 1steals Erisham's powers. That's what it seems like. Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2I think that's awesome, Obviously, and you know one of the Just shoot me already, Erisham, I said this to you before but do you think? Yeah, you think she got him you think Aresham is inquiring about the Witch's Road.
Speaker 1Yeah, he's like she's gonna be, like you're all you know, you're all powerful, right? She's like why can't you see the Witch's Road? Then he's like ugh.
Speaker 2The Witch's Road. The Watch is like oh no.
Speaker 1Oh no, I've seen her do this. You're being tricked, arishem, arishem, look out.
Speaker 2Arishem, look out, it's a trick, it's a trick.
Speaker 1Arishem.
Speaker 2Oh no.
Speaker 1She's a celestial now. Now she can make the richest road real. A lot of.
Speaker 2Monica Rambeau also in this. Yeah, yeah, in this trailer.
Speaker 1Which is pretty good.
Speaker 2Kate Bishop and Shang-Chi, like I said, are teaming up. They're cowboys we got, I mean, and again the cool thing about I do like the thing about what, if all the actors, for the most part, all come back.
Speaker 1I am very surprised Oscar Isaac's in this. I'm very surprised, I know right, Because I'm very big on. I mean this goes. This harkens to some bigger issues with Marvel as a whole.
Speaker 2Mahershala Ali is also in this.
Speaker 1Yes, that was the big one I was waiting for you to say as Blade A, when did they record this? That's my true question, because it's 2024. Yeah, if they recorded this in like 2022, both Mahershala Ali and Oscar Isaac were probably like oh, we're going to be these characters for a long time, right? So that's my question of when did they record? Cause I don't know what Oscar Isaac thinks about Marvel these days, cause you saw what and rightfully so for him how he feels about Star Wars now.
Speaker 2So Unless I mean, unless they've told him stuff about Moon Knight that he just doesn't, he can't say yeah.
Speaker 1Or it's like dude, do the Midnight Suns. Is that not your easiest option?
Speaker 2It feels like that's coming sooner or later. Yeah, and then I mean the cool part about this what If trailer was the ending? Obviously they did a stinger at the end of this which sees Storm wielding Mjolnir, so they're integrating the X-Men stuff now into the MCU, Like officially, Like for real, Because Storm is in this.
Speaker 1And it's the end of the day.
Speaker 2Yeah, voiced by Alison Seely Smith, obviously returning as Storm.
Speaker 1Was that not the coolest thing you've ever seen in your entire life? Yeah, that was the coolest thing you've ever seen in your entire life.
Speaker 2Yeah, that was the coolest thing possibly ever, I mean, and Alison Celia Smith's Storm is just incredible. Like when she ramps up she does the whole. I am Storm and you're like yep.
Speaker 1You are Guys, that's Storm. You're Storm from Marvel Comics, aren't you Like any?
Speaker 2time in X-Men 97 when she got like one of those big, like ramp-up moments. Oh, you think they're going to do the piano in this one. I hope so. Do it, do the thing. So yeah, I mean it looked pretty good. I still like the animation style. We know that Kahori is coming back, which I still think going back to what If Season 2, there's a lot of interesting things with that character. Sure, sure, like I liked her standalone episode and then that character somehow got less interesting as they integrated her.
Speaker 1Well, it's what If Season 2 started to go against like they? And obviously Season 1 still did it, but Season 1 did it in a way where the watchers like at this point I have to intervene.
Speaker 2And then she got all the powers.
Speaker 1Remember that. Remember that bit when she got all the powers. You remember when Emilia Clarke was in Secret Invasion and they gave her every power and then she just disappeared? Yeah, maybe she's who comes to help Sam in the Captain America trailer we're going to talk about now.
Speaker 2Imagine let's talk about the Captain America trailer now, because I want to talk about Thunderbolts. Last yeah, yeah, um, yeah, so we got another uh trailer for captain america.
Speaker 1Brave new world. It's weird. I'm so torn because I I've seen a lot of people be like this trailer was incredible. I'm like, okay, so this is the mission impossible point I was making. So I'm watching this trailer, right, and I'm like this movie probably cost like 250 300 million dollars easily. Yeah, okay, I know they spent a lot of money on that mission impossible trailer, but then I look at a movie like dune right. Dune 2 conceivably and this is not an exaggeration is one of the most gorgeous movies that's ever been released ever. Yeah, that movie had giant sandworms and planets and it was wild. Yeah, what's so insane about this movie where it looks like this? That's my biggest gripe with this. It's like why does this look?
Speaker 2like this. Yeah, I mean, it's weird too, because I feel like I feel like the first trailer looked better. Yeah, like it looked, maybe, maybe, maybe it's an editing issue, maybe it's truly an editing trailer splicing issue, where that first trailer was really snappy and gave you epilepsy, but I did like the snappiness of it. It's meant to disorient you in a weird way. I think that things are flashing and happening really quickly.
Speaker 1This one felt more like a regular kind of standard cookie cutter marvel trailer but also it had that overlay of like that you know that mid-2000s espionage thriller on top of it too, yeah, which is cool. But I just I can't. There's something off. Like there's something that's off about this. I can't put my finger on it. There's something off and it's. It hurts me, because when this movie got announced I was like okay, and then I started to learn more. I was like okay, this conceivably could be a pretty dang good movie like this can be pretty interesting. Sam's on a good train of an arc right now, especially after falcon and the winter soldier. I mean, you add harrison ford. Obviously you don't want to add harrison ford from the circumstance, but like you add harrison ford to this movie like that's one of the most famous actors to ever live. Yeah, he's like oh, yeah, I'll do, I'll be red hulk. You're like excuse me, seems like he's having a really good time, right Right.
Speaker 2He's been very defensive of not just Marvel movies, but also of Anthony Mackie. Yeah, harrison Ford's kind of like hey, that's my little brother you're talking about.
Speaker 1That's my dog, that's my dog, right?
Speaker 2there, which has been cool, but there's such this like so you're getting a motivated Harrison Ford, but there's such this, so you're getting a motivated Harrison Ford.
Speaker 1But here's my big thing. Right, I'm saying all these things, but then I'm seeing the trailer and I'm like the things in here. Look, I'm super intrigued. Whatever this third act battle that they're going to have on Tiamat with the adamantium, it seems like You're getting the leader. That's cool. Hulk's going to show up like I. I don't see any concealing.
Speaker 2I can't imagine any possible. Doesn't show up in this. It's it. There's a bunch of hulk characters in this movie.
Speaker 1This is a hulk movie. This is this is literally the last part of the hulk arc that you can think of. I think it would be would be like this then you do World War Hulk. After that, like I think you should have Mark Ruffalo show up as Smart Hulk, red Hulk's like no, I need the other guy that I knew before. And then he's like alright, I'm back. I'm thinking I'm back.
Speaker 2Yeah, I would agree with that. How is he beating this? Maybe he's gonna hit him with another famous Sam Wilson speech. Maybe That'll do it.
Speaker 1That'll get him. You got to do better. Mr President, Red Hulk.
Speaker 2What if the end of the movie is just him becoming the president, but as the Red Hulk? That would be. So he's just Red Hulk permanently, but he's just the president.
Speaker 1Oh, he's the smart Red Hulk.
Speaker 2Yeah, he gets a little suit, but no it looks super interesting.
Speaker 1I'm intrigued in whatever this narrative is going to be. Yeah, Isaiah Bradley stuff is super interesting. I hope that Marvel does the right thing and they get an actor, like a younger actor, to play Isaiah Bradley and they do the Gui Yang stuff, do the actual. I think that would be a really good swing for them. That's beside the point from this trailer, but I'm into this. I'm still super intrigued, especially from that first trailer. I just think if you've got to compare the trailers, that first one is tighter. It gives you a little bit more intrigue. This one is just a little bit more confusion and I feel like the reshoots are showing a lot more in this.
Speaker 2I was going to say that too. Yeah, this feels like the reshoots were involved in this trailer and yeah, I mean we'll see, I'm still super interested, but but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but but.
Speaker 1We got another thunderbolts trailer on top of the captain america trailer, man, and this movie looks sensational so what we did is we watched the captain america trailer and then we immediately watched the thunderbolts trailer and I said is this a real movie we're actually watching now?
Speaker 2and I said thank god this movie looks really really tight man it looks real.
Speaker 1Yeah, it looks. It looks like it was actually shot by somebody that's, you know, said like let's actually make a film Like that's actually. But I feel like this movie has a good, a good standing on. Like there's a bit of ignoring in this movie of like everything that's come before. Like I don't feel like the Marvel tethered super besides these characters, which is the good piece of it. If you besides these characters, which is the good piece of it, if you're going to do it, this feels like actual direction. I think that's the best thing I can say about this.
Speaker 2Do we know who's directing this.
Speaker 1I think we should, we definitely should. But yeah, I mean Jake Schreier. What did he do?
Speaker 2That name sounds familiar.
Speaker 1He is. That name sounds very familiar.
Speaker 2His first feature film was Robot and Frank in 2012. He's directed Paper Towns Paper Towns okay, and that's it. Robot and Frank 2012,. Paper Towns in 2015,. And then he's doing Thunderbolts.
Speaker 1Television guy.
Speaker 2Big television guy.
Speaker 1Yeah, I had a feeling.
Speaker 2Directed Beef. Six episodes of.
Speaker 1Beef, nice, nice, emmy winning television too on top of that.
Speaker 2Yep directed, and then directed an episode of Shameless, oh nice. He's got a pretty light kind of resume. Yeah, you know not what you would expect hey sometimes you need something like this.
Speaker 1Sometimes I love that ideal too of like hey, like you didn't get the guy or the or the gal that directed a billion things, and like these big things, like no, like this guy didn't conceivably do the most in his career yet, but like here you go to cook. Like go do what, you go, have some fun. Like go cook, don't worry about anything else. Like we'll insert where we need to, as marvel. But like it just feels like this is just a real overlay to this and I couldn't be happier.
Speaker 2There's color grading in this, yeah the dynamic between all the characters looks really oh my gosh, it looks so good.
Speaker 1Everybody feels like they have a place, except for taskmaster, who is easily dying in the first confrontation that they have.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. I think all the characters are super interesting. We talked about it when we talked about the first trailer. I think framing this movie instead of it's an ensemble, obviously, but seemingly framing the story around Alexia and Yelena, I think is really really smart, and then kind of having her be the driving force of this movie, I think is really smart.
Speaker 1Yeah, having her be the main character of this movie, I think, is really smart. Yeah, having her be the main character, it's the best thing. You're playing on the fact that you got Florence Pugh before she took off. Too much for you to get her in this universe, you got her at the right. And you know what. It harkens back to that conversation when we talked about Black Widow of, like, what do you sacrifice? Do you sacrifice Florence Pugh or do you sacrifice having this movie come out in 2017, when it was supposed to? Yeah, at the end of the day, they made the right decision, because then you get her to lead a movie like this. Yep.
Speaker 2And it just seems like you're getting really great. It seems like, based on the trailer, you're getting really great performances out of everyone. I'm really keen to see what Wyatt Russell does in this movie.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's somebody I was going to talk about, also, ghost. That's actually who I'm most excited to see in this movie is Ghost, because I think she, when we I'm just going to predict our awards, she might be the most underrated character in this whole thing. It might be Ghost of like this is like they. Finally let me be a character in this one.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think back to your point about this movie obviously having a grounding in MCU but not feeling overly reliant on the stuff that all these characters are being pulled from. It's almost like they can do with ghosts what you know, I'm not comparing the two but like they can do with ghosts in this movie what the first Iron man movie did with Iron man, where they're like, just forget, forget the Ant-Man and the wasp thing with ghosts, like for all intents and purposes like yeah, the only thing you need to know is her powers and what her name is.
Speaker 1That's the only thing that you need to know.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think just forget everything else, and I think they're going to do that with a lot of these characters. Besides, you know, I think Taskmaster, like you said, is mostly. I could be wrong, but maybe Taskmaster is probably just going to be mostly just indifferent in this movie.
Speaker 1I think she's going to have a little bit of a kinship to Yelena and it might hit Yelena a little hard when I do think that Taskmaster Like the shot that has all of them I think Taskmaster is digitally inserted in that shot. Like you got to show, like this isn't the Suicide Squad, but you got to show that these characters are not bulletproof, like these characters can be killed. What's the twist?
Speaker 2Of this movie. Yeah, oh, I think the twist is probably that they end up being the new Avengers, yep.
Speaker 1And I think that her, I think her, or Val, because Val's Nick Fury I think her big thing is that like, oh shoot. Like I wasn't equating for Red Guardian. On top of that, we're trying to get the Sentry to be like your leader of this thing, like we wanted the Sentry to be here, but like I have a Captain America variant, I have a Black Widow variant on here.
Speaker 2It's just, I mean the question ultimately is like how does Bucky fit into this?
Speaker 1Well, I think Bucky is the government being like. Well, you're going to the idea too of like the how you know, in the Captain America trailer, the first one, like he's like I want to make Captain America government official again. Like Bucky, Senator, but like we're in a wartime state, like senators and presidents can also be like war generals and things like that. So they're going to be like you're still an agent of the U S, like you're still going to have to do Avenger-level things.
Speaker 2And I think these two movies are going to tie together.
Speaker 1Ooh I had an idea today. What if this movie comes out? Not this movie comes out. What if this movie takes place before Captain America 4 and they come to save him? Because who better to take out the Red Hulk than the Sentry?
Speaker 2That's an interesting idea. I do think these movies are going to be tethered together, oh very, very closely, in some form or fashion, and that was my point about Captain America being there.
Speaker 1I was like I have an Avengers team, I have my own Avengers, we have our Superman here and he's going to be like what's a Superman?
Speaker 2Yeah, we did get a couple quick glances at what's the actor's name Lewis Pullman, lewis Pullman.
Speaker 1You're Lewis Pullman, lewis Pullman Of Bob Pullman. You're Lewis Pullman from Bob Pullman.
Speaker 2Yeah, we got a couple more shots of Lewis Pullman as Bob Mm-hmm the worst kept secret in the world that he's a century. That was originally played by Steven Yeun Yep, who had to drop out Yep To be in Star Wars according to plan. Um, I think, though, I do like his affableness.
Speaker 1Yeah, then he's like guys, guys what's going on, like he's just kind of weird. I, and I said it too if they're gonna do this thing where we're gonna find out that they're gonna turn into they need a tank on this team, like they need an absolute like tank, but that also is gonna play in like there's a wild card on this team that they can't equate for. Yeah. So I I thought about it too. I I think because and I think it's intentional they made that joke about the serums, because I think that's going to be the point of like this is these like you guys have a super soldier serum, we have the super soldier serum now, um, I think it's going to be the one that bucky got the, the regular one. Oh, you got the high.
Speaker 1Oh, so regular regular, no, no, regular hydra, oh, hydra, hydra fancy um, I think they're gonna do it as, like, think about every single super soldier, like the gamma radiation mixed with the super soldier serum that erskine and then the guy that was in the lab and falcon and the winter soldier cultivated yeah, mixed with the extremis. Like the extremis is probably going to be the active ingredient that keeps it going. Hence he has the power of a million exploding suns. Like the extremists is like the catalyst to keep it going, like that's why he's so powerful.
Speaker 2And then, given all the super soldier stuff, do you think Zemo's in this movie?
Speaker 1There's a very big chance. And does Daniel Brühl not fit perfectly into this movie? Yeah, as like the backdoor, like he's the one that's actually pulling the strings behind this. Yeah, it's what happens in the comics. That's exactly how it goes in the comics.
Speaker 2I think he's in this, I think he's in it. I think they're keeping it a secret, I think they're surrounding it with all the sentry business and I think he's.
Speaker 1I think he's in this movie I think, well, you think he's in bed with val. I think him and val are like, working together to like, but val doesn't understand what the like, the genie she's taking out of the bottle doing this yeah, because you're waiting again, like kind of like to the agatha point, like they left zemo off as like this fun kind of like.
Speaker 2he's like all right, he's kind of like an okay guy, but like you gotta remember who you're dealing with and I think this movie, I think he comes back and he's like an asshole.
Speaker 1Well, I think it also goes to this bigger point of like well, if I can't kill the Avengers or break them, I'll make my own Avengers. I'm Nick Fury, Even when I'm out.
Speaker 2I'm in Go and the last bit of news. It's a big bit of news and it's Denzel news. It's Denzel Corner.
Speaker 1It is the Denzel Corner.
Speaker 2Denzel has essentially given his roadmap for the remainder of his acting career before he did clarify some of those comments today and basically said, like you know, these are the films that are on my slate, but then I also I want to kind of like, do some behind the camera work, like after I'm done filming these movies. But he has essentially given his roadmap for, like what the rest of his acting career is looking like.
Speaker 1Is he not the coolest guy on planet?
Speaker 2earth.
Speaker 1The way he even said he's like after that I got Othello, after Othello I have King Mead and then I'm retiring. And he said after that Ryan Coogler's got a role for me in Black Panther 3. After that I'm retiring.
Speaker 2Whoa, whoa, whoa, denzel. Everybody's like whoa, what did you say? Go back, rewind that a bit. So yeah, so he talked about obviously he's doing Gladiator 2. Then he said he's playing Hannibal in a movie, he's doing live. He's doing Othello on the stage on Broadway. So I mean, if you can get out and see Denzel on Broadway, that'd be sick. He's also doing a film adaptation of Othello, which I mean if anyone saw Macbeth, I sure did and it's great. So any of Denzel's Shakespeare stuff I'm all in on.
Speaker 1I remember when I saw him and for instance, mcdormand and Macbeth, I said it's funny, because I think I said this to you. I said I love the back half of his career and we're going to talk about it and who I think he could be playing in Black Panther 3. Like this is who Denzel built himself upon before. He was like this big Denzel that we all knew. Like this is a shakespeare guy through and through, like that's, like it's so funny that, like that, he's ending his career in such like a historical mindset. I think that's so cool yeah.
Speaker 2So he's doing hannibal, he's doing othello, he's doing king lear, he's doing an untitled project with steve mcqueen. I have an idea now.
Speaker 1Well, steve mcqueen has blitz out with soirse Ronan right now, which is getting rave reviews. So Steve McQueen too, I mean he's a phenomenal filmmaker. He's a filmmaker where people will seek out Now hear me out, Hear me out, Hear me out. You do Steve McQueen. He gets his Bond movie. He gets Desmond Idris. Denzel is the villain of this Bond movie. Denzel Bond villain as one of the last roles of his career. That would be fabulous. You don't think Denzel would cook as a Bond villain?
Speaker 2Oh my god, yeah, he would be incredible. I love that. And then I mean, obviously the little tidbit that he just kind of threw in there that obviously drew the attention of all the nerds is that Ryan Coogler is writing a part for him in the next Black Panther movie. Yeah, that was crazy and he just dropped that in there. That just tells you, like you know, that's how you know, denzel just isn't tapped into like nerd culture nor cares, right, he just threw that in there. He's like Ryan Coogler is writing a part for me in the next Black Panther.
Speaker 1And another thing and and then I'm retiring. Whoa Jesus, you can't just breeze past that bit Now he's not playing.
Speaker 2Blue Marvel nerd Shut up. Yeah, I'm like, look, this is one and done for him. He's not going to be part, he's not in the MCU, he's doing one thing and then he's out because he wants to work with Ryan Coogler. I think that much is obvious.
Speaker 1You've been saying this for a while and obviously I've thought it, but you've been saying this for a while on here, off of here. I don't think people really understand how potent Ryan Coogler is. Did he just turn 40 or something? Ryan Coogler is.
Speaker 2He's like 38 or 39.
Speaker 1I think this about him and Damien Chazelle of of like, they haven't even hit the strides of their career and they have two of the most 38, both, I think they're both 38 and two of they two of them a piece have like some of the most influential films of all time, yeah, under their belts. Yep, like I think that people are gonna go out of their way. And I again, I think people also took notice too, like when ryan coogler dropped that trailer, um, for sinners, people were like, ooh, no, no, no, he's going to be like, he's somebody to like. Actually, why did you listen to his, to his podcast that he had Jordan Peele on a few, like a month ago that everybody was talking about, oh, it was so good. Um, I, jordan Peele is another one where it's like, who is Jordan Peele? Now? He is one of the biggest names of a director that's not attached to a franchise you can find, and you see how much respect they have for Ryan Coogler.
Speaker 2That's not by mistake, ryan Coogler's mind is a phenomenal one when it comes to this. Yeah, I mean, this is a unique situation, like I said, as soon as Denzel said it, I was like this is Denzel Knowing his timeline and knowing Ryan Coogler's kind of trajectory and being like, no, I would like to work with this young man? You know, I think that's ultimately what this is, and I don't know who made the call to who first.
Speaker 1I think and I mean I talk about this a lot of how I look at black Panther too, and I'm like this, I'm borderline. This universe doesn't deserve this movie Like this. This movie is so technically sound, it's narratively sound, it's a movie that almost exists in like a vacuum.
Speaker 1I was thinking about it Cause I saw people online. I was like reading the comments Cause they showed a clip from the movie and people were like I can't believe that I and people are like I can't believe that. I said this is like too good for you to understand how, truthfully, this is like an incredible, just film. Like it's like outside of the MCU. This is just a well-made film period. Like the fact that this is attached to this universe. You should be grateful for that. This is attached to this universe. So, like I said, it's not by mistake that Denzel Washington I think Denzel might have gave the call to Ryan, because I mean, obviously Angela Bassett and Denzel Washington, you're talking about two of the most famous actors on the planet, so it wouldn't be a coincidence that Angela's like look at the performance I got, and that's Angela Bassett. She would have given a similar performance. No matter, but a director actor relationship is something sacred, so I do think thatela might have had a little say in it and like this kid is not kid, but like this guy. I mean he is a kid really to them. He's like this guy is good, like he is. He is good and he's empowering to us, like he's somebody that like 10, 15, 20 years from now, like he might be, like we might think of him in some breath as some all-time great directors. If he's not there already, he is good and she probably knows.
Speaker 1I know you don't got a lot of time left. He's 70. You don't have a lot of time left doing this. Take a crack If you're going to work with him for something. Obviously he's ingrained into this Black Panther franchise, which I think this is going to be the last. This will be the last Black Panther movie. I think Probably this will be the last Black Panther movie. I think Probably. Do you just what did I say to you? You make him the first Black Panther.
Speaker 2I think that makes a lot of sense because I know a lot of people were kicking around the idea of him being kind of like a T'Challa from another universe and I'm like I just the closeness that he had with Chadwick Boseman, I don't think he would step on that character Right just out of respect and reverence for Chadwick, because I mean, one of Chadwick's speeches was there is no Black Panther without Denzel Washington. And I think Coogler has always been very cognizant of deploying these real-life situations. I mean, obviously Wakanda Forever was built around that but he's been very good about deploying these real-life situations into these Black Panther movies and I think obviously the closeness that he had with Chadwick also, I think that line from that speech that there is no Black Panther without Denzel Washington, I think that is going to be the the tether to whatever this role is.
Speaker 1And, like I said, what better way to make him the first Black Panther? Like he is, you can make him the first Black Panther. You can make him the first black panther. You can make him t'challa's grandfather from the 40s. If you want to do that too, um, you can make him the black the wartime black panther from world war ii. If you really want to go that route, um could conceivably that can conceivably get isaiah bradley into this movie. In a way, you get a younger actor to play who? I? I don't know what you go, but you have options. You can make him the panther god, if you want to. You can use that route. I just think one of the best ways to do it is you make him the first Black Panther.
Speaker 1It's just how does this get into this narrative? And again, we don't know what this narrative is going to look like. Yeah, we have no clue. Yeah, this is like we knew and we knew this before Chadwick Boseman passed away that Namor like and if you know comics, you knew they were on a collision course the two of them as well, like you knew that namor and black panther were good. We're gonna butt heads at some point. So do you do you? Do you reuse talacon in this one? I don't know. Like I know, some stuff happened with the namor actor, like it's been like to the point of like he doesn't exist to us right now. So, yeah, I wonder what direction you'd take for something like this, because conceivably, this movie is going to come out after secret wars. This movie probably won't come out oh yeah, it's 20 till 2027 probably, unless they fast track this I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2I mean, when you look at kugler's filmography, he it's usually like three to four years between films for him. Right and sinners comes out next year, so you're probably looking at 2028, the earliest.
Speaker 1I think he understands Denzel's age on top of that too. So he might say like hey, we're going to maybe get this a little faster than anything too. So that's kind of like my best bet. Like you make him Because I mean they showed that first Black Panther in the opening sequence of Black Panther 1. Like I think that would be so cool. Like I said, he could be T'Challa's grandfather on top of this too, or he could be some completely different. He doesn't even need to be Wakandan, he could be some other completely different character. I think he's going to be Wakandan.
Speaker 2I just think he's going to be. I think, again, coogler does such a great job with these black panther movies of of injecting real life into the narratives and the characters, and I think he's. Denzel. Being in this is like no, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna. Pay respect and homage to denzel washington through this role that I create for him now, how big is this role gonna be is a good question too.
Speaker 1Because, like you're, because you're battling with two, with three, with three things. The first battle is that's denzel washington. That's literally one of the most famous men to walk this planet. If any way you want to slice it in the entertainment business, like, do you just not cameo him, but do you like john carl esposito him and, like you know, you give him this character that's like a comic D-lister and it's like he. But the fact that it's Denzel Washington helps this character. Do you give him, like, the villain role of this movie? That can be a way to of, like he gives him this, he could give him the villain role of this movie.
Speaker 2I'm thinking I'm thinking more along the lines of like Angela Bassett supporting role, where he just kind of cooks with like one big denzel monologue and then he's just kind of like a supporting role, like throughout the movie. Or maybe, like you said, maybe he is like the first black panther and they use him on like the ancestral plane and he delivers like some denzel speech from the ancestral plane, right, and you're like damn, like, damn, he's cool I need them to have trust and do one thing keep leticia right as the main character of this movie.
Speaker 1I think that is something that I mean. We talked about performances across the mcu. I still think that is one of the best performances we had ever seen in this universe too. Yeah, I, I think you go out of your way to make sure she comes back for the third one, and and again, don't over complicate this. I mean, I know they got this kid to be t'challa's son, like I know they did these things. I know secret wars is gonna mess with the timeline. Things are gonna happen. Universe is gonna start to collapse. Just leave her as black panther. She did dang great. Just make her black panther again. She's the black panther of wakanda.
Speaker 2That's the end of the story yep, yeah, I did, I just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1I couldn't believe it, I was watching and like, yeah, it was just, it was like a train of like. He was just like, after that, ron cougar's writing a role for me in black, I said whoa, whoa, because I mean that was like always like the pipe dream, right like you're like denzel.
Speaker 2Would that Ryan Coogler's writing a role for me in Black Panther? I said whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Because I mean that was always like the pipe dream, right, you're like Denzel would never do a Marvel movie.
Speaker 1Right, it's not only Denzel, but it's like these bigger actors, it's like your Tom Hanks, your Denzel Washingtons You're like they would never do a Marvel.
Speaker 2And then Denzel Washington.
Speaker 1Oh yeah.
Speaker 2He wouldn't do a Marvel movie with any other director.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Denzel's probably like what's Marvel. Like Denzel, we want you to be in the next Ant-Man movie.
Speaker 1Jonathan Major said you want me to be where? Oh no, Denzel's Kang, no, stop it, we're not doing this.
Speaker 2We're not doing this. He's one and done.
Speaker 1Remember the rumors, like the fake rumors that Denzel was going to be Doom for a little bit or that he was going to be Dormammu?
Speaker 2Yeah, no In Doctor Strange 3?.
Speaker 1Maybe he's Dormammu in this movie.
Speaker 2He would cook as Dormammu.
Speaker 1Yeah, he would Ha. Ha, Stephen Strange, stephen Strange, stephen Strange, stephen Strange, he will be my instrument. Yo, I gotta see Gladiator man. He's in the Dark Dimension.
Speaker 2Whoa, we had Dormammu already. He was in the first Doctor Strange.
Speaker 1Oh God, what do you mean by the Dark Dimension?
Speaker 2Come on, man Don't do this. Uh, dormammu.
Speaker 1Dormammu was shook. He was shook. He said what the he said.
Speaker 2let me out of this. No, doctor Strange said I'm not going to. No, dr Strange said I'm not going to. No, I'm Stephen Strange and I'm a prick.
Speaker 1I'm Luke Cage, rob just dabs, so everybody knows.
Speaker 2I like that Dr Strange beat Dormammu just by being annoying. Yeah, he was just persistent. Dormammu was like what is?
Speaker 1this. What is this? Who's here? Who's here? I would, I would give, I'm and you know exactly what I'm about to say I would give any amount of money that you can ever think to have on planet earth to see denzel, as whatever character he'll be, and nick fury in the same room at the same time. That would be incredible. Throw Sidewinder John Carlos Esposito into that conversation.
Speaker 2I don't know how to do it.
Speaker 1Why couldn't? Oh my God, that's one of those things where I wish they would have waited like three years until the X-Men are out and just make him one of the X-Men characters instead? Yeah, because why is he Sidewinder? He's like a third tier villain in this movie now.
Speaker 2Because he's in the Serpent Society. Jesus.
Speaker 1Maybe they should do the thing from like where the Serpent Societies are like just idiots.
Speaker 2The Serpent Society. God, you think he's going to say that no, in Captain America 3. Or Captain America 4. I'm Sidewinder, I'm in the Serpent Society and Sam's like huh, serpent Society.
Speaker 1And Sam's like huh Drew. John Carl Esposito from Cooler.
Speaker 2Stuff Than this Damn. We did the news for an hour. Alright, penguin, you're getting an abridged review. Penguin, you're getting an abridged review. You didn't deserve one, but we had to talk about Denzel Washington for 20 minutes.
Speaker 1The Penguin Vic, I gotta say Vic, Vic, I gotta say they don't think we're nothing, Vic, they throw us in these streets. They don't think we're anything Dang.
Speaker 2The extension of the Batman cinematic universe.
Speaker 1And I will say this right now Take notes this is how you extend out in universe. Yes, this is how you do it. This is literally how you do it. This is literally how you do it. This is the textbook definition of how to round out a universe.
Speaker 2You know what the cool part about this show was? People were seeing the previews and all this stuff and they're like is this just the Sopranos? And Matt Reeves was like yeah, yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 1He's still that same Oz from the Batman, but he just says the f word a lot, yeah. But also I'm gonna make this point later because this, this show did something that I wasn't even equating for thinking about the show, because you're thinking about the sopranos cops, all those things right, all the crime thriller things. This show does so good with arkham to a point where I'm like, just do a show at arkham. Maybe isn't that supposed to be happening. I don't know if it's still happening. I know it was an idea that they had, because what you probably do, and also this show being like an emmy-esque, type of like the emmys roll around. Colin farrell probably has that emmy right now. That's how good, that's how good he, that's how good the show was. So what you're going to probably think about is HBO themselves being like yo the Penguin was like weak, but yo, hbo was like yo the Penguin rocks. No, seriously, hbo was like dude, we were not expecting this show to pop off like this. So HBO's probably like Matt Reeves do whatever show you want. Yeah, I feel like this is kind of like the. I mean, if the Batman already wasn't that, this was definitely that.
Speaker 1Who made this point? One of the reviewers made a great point. They're probably kicking themselves that they made a show called gotham, because they could have just made a show called gotham for this. Come on man, gotham was cool. Gotham was cool in the first few seasons, then it got weird. It was still cool. Is he cool?
Speaker 1hell, yeah, he's cool, I'm gotham yo but you probably this show probably gets more shows green lit that they probably weren't expecting. So this arkham show you can really play that arkham show if you want to. You make hugo strange, the villain of a show like that, and you put, uh, what's your name in it? You put sophia back in this show.
Speaker 2Yeah, she was oh my god, we'll talk, we can talk about her. We can talk about her now. Um, before that, I do want to talk, you know, obviously. I mean the. The lead-up to the show was pretty straightforward um this, yeah, the show's not like a.
Speaker 1The best surprise about the show is how dang good it was. There's not like a. Yeah, they didn't.
Speaker 2They weren't kind of like attention went to it like I didn't. I guess I didn't expect, I don't know. I guess I didn't expect them to like care this much about it well, that's what we were.
Speaker 1We didn't say that exactly, but we were kind of, we were kind of roundabouting it. When we were talking about this, like when the first preview came out for this last year, we were like this could be something like this, it looks cool, this is the penguin, and you know, john the penguin you know what this show does, that you know a lot of great spinoffs or whatever do it makes it doesn't just do a good thing.
Speaker 2it like it makes you care about the character that it's about, exactly like it makes you want to see him again. It makes him bigger, it makes him a bigger character, it elevates him.
Speaker 1But then and then they don't forget the one thing we started this episode with that's still the Penguin from DC Comics. That's still the villain, the Penguin.
Speaker 2But it elevates him to a real villain. Now which? I think it needed to do yes, cause, like the, the end of the Batman leaves him like like you're like, oh, he's kind of like he's about to start his ascent right. Cause Falcone dies and there's a vacuum.
Speaker 1They literally say it there's a power vacuum in Gotham.
Speaker 2And you just I guess he's just going into this you wonder, you just going into this, you wonder how much of his ascent is going to be in this show. They put the whole thing, yeah, yeah, that's what it ended up being, is it's like?
Speaker 1no, he's like going into the next batman movie as like, potentially like the villain he he conceivably could be. I think what they're going to do is extend him because I again I think h again to my job. Like hbo is like yo what the this show is awesome. Like hbo is's gonna probably try to milk this as much as they can and like what a good reoccurring villain too. As somebody like as charismatic, as like you wanna talk about charisma, like Colin Farrell is oozing it as like you know, you made it when you scroll on TikTok and everybody's doing the limp walk and everybody's like and everybody's like Vic. They didn't want us to be anything. And look at us now. Vic like he is dangerously good as the penguin.
Speaker 2I mean like absurdly good it's what you get him for right. He was kind of like the garnish in the Batman, like he was great but like ultimately you didn't need him, but like he was just like the garnish in the in the Batman.
Speaker 1And you want to talk about rounding out the universe. Then, once he gets his own narrative, his emotional narrative like you learn the things about his life You're like, oh, I can't wait to see him. And then I I can we talk spoilers? I guess yeah, yeah, yeah. Then when you get into it and he murders Vic at the end, you're like no, I need Batman to take this guy out.
Speaker 2He knew it was coming. I love what they did with that character.
Speaker 1Yeah, that character, because he's the audience surrogate, right, he's the tether, he's the one that like he's the one that's supposed to make you believe in the perspective piece we also always talk about. From his perspective, he is just a kid who's trying to make it, who lost his family, that whatever means necessary, he's going to get there, a redeemable-esque character. But then Oz is like yeah, you need to die because you know things about me, because I'm the main villain of the. This show is about me. I'm still the main villain, though I hope you know that.
Speaker 2Yep, and just the way the show is structured around, they do such a good job with Oz and Sophia, especially Because it's like, obviously, you start the show and Oz is a bad guy, right, and then Sophia shows up and you're like well, she's just unhinged. So you think Oz is like. They position Oz as the quote unquote good guy against her because she's this maniac, and we're like he's a maniac, but he's like he's got morals, he's a normal maniac, right, he's just a crime guy. Yeah, he's just a mobster, Right, she's a proper maniac.
Speaker 1And then they literally completely flip that. Yeah, it's insane, he's the maniac, he is the maniac, he's a psycho. And that goes to my point about Arkham Dude, it's the whole thing. You know the ideology around every character in the Batman universe. It's the idea that all of them are all in Gotham or they're all in Arkham, even Batman, every single one of them is in Arkham.
Speaker 2You find out at the end that the penguin could probably be in arkham if he needs to be like he is.
Speaker 1Yes, he's a psycho yeah, and it comes, and it comes in the form of we're gonna make it out. Ma what he does at the end, not just to vic but just everybody around him, is like insane you want to talk about a certified yapper who didn't we talk about this one week I forgot what we were talking about, like somebody that can yap their way out of anything, like oz could yap his way out of anything yeah, yeah, and he does over and over again in this.
Speaker 2He does um and time and time again. The cool thing about him in the show is, like, time and time again, like he just betrays everybody, you're just like whatever, like you don't care that he's betraying Sophia or like any of these other mobsters. You care when he betrays Vic, though, and that's the point.
Speaker 1And it's so good and they hold it. They hold it right until the right spot he holds it like Reeves holds it until you think it's safe. Right, yes, which is?
Speaker 2perfect. You're like oh cool, they're both kind of villains, but they're going to.
Speaker 1And it also frames it in a way where they set up Vic being unsafe. Also in that same episode, in the finale, in the beginning, they said you need to wash your back. And guess who? Vic needed to wash his back out for the guy that he trusted the most. It's so sick, it's sick.
Speaker 2It's so good they're going to do crime together.
Speaker 1This is going to be great, this kid is going to grow up to be something like this kid. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
Speaker 2And that's what the show again going back to the point about, like they didn't redeem him.
Speaker 1No, he's the penguin, he's the villain.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's a terrible guy. He is a terrible guy, he's. You know. You could make the argument that, like in the pantheon of like Gotham villains like there's nothing like wrong with him In the way that there is, like the Riddler or the Joker, to where like In the comics maybe, but but in this show he's got some issues yeah, but it's like they're not. He's like he doesn't have like an excuse to be like a maniac the way like the joker, but that's where the crime comes into this.
Speaker 1That's where the crime aspect of this comes. It's like you know, I saw this gangster, rex calabrese, when I was a kid and I wanted to be just like him, like that's where it works, that that's where that piece works.
Speaker 2Like he just grew up wanting to be a bad person.
Speaker 1Well, he wanted to grow, but then you give them their emotional tether, which is his ma, yeah, exactly which. There was a wonderful performance by whoever played his mother as well. Yes, what an incredible performance that was.
Speaker 2This show is just littered with great performances.
Speaker 1Deidre O'Connell she was phenomenal as Mama Cobb, as I like to call her. So yeah, you talk performances.
Speaker 2We can talk about Sophia Falcone as well too yeah, I mean, krista Milati kind of came on as like the kind of like the star of this oh you want to talk about to the point where I genuinely think she has a role in the Batman too, which she never would have. Well, I mean the end of the show sets up her direct ties to Selina Kyle Right.
Speaker 1So did they do the same thing for the Batman, where they do the Joker tease at the end?
Speaker 2They did the same thing. It's like the Dark Knight Rises thing. She'd use a real name kyle man, what was carmen?
Speaker 1falcon cooking. Yeah, mark strong. Shout out for mark strong coming in taking it it is. It's very I like it, because you know how I think about it, how I justified it. His carmine falcon is what sophia sees it's not, it's, it's such a good point.
Speaker 1It's what sophia sees. It's like in your brain. It's like john tutoro's, this eccentric like, and mark strong's very like by the books. He's very like that's a great point, but like that's your father. So how would you see your father, your father's also like that? Your father also see my father as mark strong instead of john to tarot. You know, I personally wouldn't know, but but yeah, that's everybody's dad.
Speaker 1Yeah, mark strong, you're john mark strong. Wait, mark strong was in, was in shazam one was he? Yeah, he was the villain, oh my god he was dr savannah and he came back for shazam.
Speaker 2Fear of the gods, that weird post-credit scene with that dang caterpillar. That movie was all right, yeah, but zachary levi, no good. Yeah, he just went off the rails he did go off the rail.
Speaker 1We gotta study what happened to zachary levi, because he just like lost it. What happened there?
Speaker 2he's also gonna be.
Speaker 1Mark strong is also gonna be doing prophecy yeah, yeah, he's playing one, I think he's playing. He's playing the emperor, yeah, he's playing. Yeah, he's playing one of the original Carinos. Is he just like HBO's guy? Maybe? I mean, you know how these work for some streaming service. They have some of these guys and gals. Put him in the Last of Us. Why not Mark Strong in the Last of Us? I don't know. I feel like that would be really cool. He's got that voice man, I know. And again, harkening back to that point I was making like that's how Sophia sees him, is like this, like stern, like never lets me do anything like, but also protective like. But then, like you look at the Batman and like that's how Selina sees him, selina sees him as like as John Turturro, as John Turturro from the Big Lebowski, like this slimy, like scummy, like anything to get ahead.
Speaker 2That's a great point. I don't know if that's how they intended it, but it's a great way to justify it.
Speaker 1Well, I mean the intention. It's a great way to justify it. The intention was they couldn't get Jon Serrow. That was the intention.
Speaker 2Yeah, I know, but it's a great way to justify it.
Speaker 1So, because he's a little bit more reserved, he's just, he's just march strong, which I really appreciate. It's such a subtle little piece but, um, you know, it's such a great pickup, like it's one of those things it's like, wow, we, we made this work. We made this nearly impossible thing that we would get killed on, much other shows would get killed on.
Speaker 2We made it work yeah, and then they do a little team up until oz has no more need for her, which is great. Mm-hmm, because again, like the show starts and you think like she's, you think she's the one that's kind of like the good guy, yeah, and you think like she's kind of like in control, right, but like no dude.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2He's in control Right.
Speaker 1Man. It works so well too, because this show has such great bait and switches too, because you think what this whole narrative is going to be, as like she doesn't know that he killed her brother R RIP. Um uh, young Falcone.
Speaker 2Alberto Falcone yeah.
Speaker 1RIP Alberto Falcone. The son from the Sopranos would have loved you anyway. Yeah, yeah, um, but yeah, no, I think it because the first arc of the season, you think like, oh, they're just gonna work, like he's gonna have to hold this secret till the last possible moment. But then you don't equate for oz being, like I said, he's a psycho, like he's actually. Well, he's not, he's a narcissist. That's what he is like. He's like he has no empathy, like he does. But the old and his last empathy piece is gone. So now he's gone. Like this was the like, this was the last sailing of the ship to crazy town for him to be the crime lord that he's always wanted to be. They even gave him oh no, they gave him the suit up scene.
Speaker 2At the end they did yeah, he's the penguin now and then, like you think it's gonna be this thing where, like she, she, you know, her and Penguin are going to team up right and take out the Falcone family, and she's like, nah, I'm just going to do it myself. She channels her like her inner Thanos and she just kills them all. It's insane, like it's wild and like you know. And then, like you know, and then like at the end of it, like he just sends her back to Arkham, mm-hmm, and it's like you know, you've outlived your usefulness, essentially Mm-hmm and I'm going to. And you know what the great part about you know, because I saw people being like, why don't you just kill Sophia?
Speaker 1Because, odd knows, sending her back to Arkham is the worst thing you could possibly do to her Death would be a sweet release compared to if that place was hell for her. That was actual hell.
Speaker 2So I'm going to send her back there, right? Because he's a maniac.
Speaker 1Man, I'm just thinking about this show. I mean we could talk about Vic for a little bit, because it was one of those characters I was afraid of a bit Like I was afraid for this character to be lost in the sauce. Yeah, it's always weird when you. He also gets the John David Washington Can he Act Award.
Speaker 2It's weird when you create these insert characters.
Speaker 1You know how the nerds do it, because their first thought was could he be Victor Zsasz? Some people thought he was going to turn into Mr Freak Whoa Because his name is vick. Well, I like the victor's eyes one a little bit of like he just fully goes crazy and starts cutting himself after, like I thought, like what I thought was going to happen after he kills, like the guy that was like in his neighborhood, like the, the one little drug guy that was in his neighborhood. Like after he kills him, he was going to like cut himself first one.
Speaker 2But the yeah, these insert characters are always tricky to pull off because they're new, like they're new characters, like obviously he was inspired by Jason Todd, like that's like the parallel.
Speaker 1Um, let's, let's, let's bring Agatha into this. If we use this comparison, right, he, he is in the show, like he's, he's the teen in the show, right, what this uses him for? It's the one of my favorite scenes in this whole in the penguin was it was the, and remember they happened. Both these episodes happened in the same week. I'm pretty sure of like it was the throwback to like the original thing that happened and I said, dude, I can't believe that they did. I can't believe both these shows did the same thing and they both worked on each end of like showing the incident. So the seawall breaking, like that perspective from vick, from the roof, that I was like, I was like a jarring watch. I was just like like obviously in the batman, you feel it, but like you're also in this, like this detective crime, thriller, superhero movie, but like here you're like a top, it's like a top down.
Speaker 1Look at it too exactly, and you're like, because, like there's like a vulnerability, you're now watching this one with. You're like, oh my god, like all, and I felt it like I was watching like, like the riddler murdered all of these people, like these people's lives were gotham's life as, like a city was changed forever that is, it's a, it's a.
Speaker 2it's a way, way better and a way more sophisticated version of what Hawkeye did with Kate Bishop Yep, like showing her in the throes of the Battle of New York and she was just like a regular girl in the middle of this alien invasion. Obviously the penguin is better than Hawkeye, but it's like a similar go from top down view, because as a viewer you can get kind of like desensitized to like a big city leveling event.
Speaker 2yeah, and like I said, in the Batman movie that happens like it's like it's like the the terrorist attack is just a vehicle to get to the final confrontation, whereas, like what this show did, was it the terrorist attack was a terrorist attack.
Speaker 1Like people were brutally murdered.
Speaker 2It went top down to like this way, like it went horizontal.
Speaker 1This show also does a really good job of immediately making you root for Vic. Like again which it needed to do it's your POV character, but immediately it was like especially for Oz, and then it gives you such this relationship to Oz of like maybe Oz isn't the worst guy Like you want to root for him and you want him to get out.
Speaker 1You want him to get the thing that he wants? Yeah, like, hey, I'm not going to kill you, kid, I'm going to bring you under my wing. Let's take this city, and you bought it, just like the penguin. That's all he does. He just sells himself. That's his biggest thing. I'm just going to sell yourself on me.
Speaker 2And then I'm going to murder you. Yeah, which again, you don't need your insert character to be your main character. Mortal Kombat suffered from this. They made their insert character the main character and you're like wait a minute.
Speaker 1I don't care about you, he's not that interesting.
Speaker 2He shouldn't be the main character. He never was. Scorpion was the main character, but Vic does that too, where he's not the main character. He's just our insertion into the world and he's a character that we can live through.
Speaker 1so that makes it even more heartbreaking when he dies and you see how much oz cares for him, how much oz sees himself in him as well too. Um, not, it's not how oz again, it's his perspective. It's not how the audience sees Oz. It's how Oz physically sees, in his psychotic, twisted way, how he thinks of that. To him of like, hey, there was this gangster in my neighborhood he gave me, I'm going to give you a shot. No, you're a psychopath that killed his brothers. You're nuts. You've lost it. You want to get nuts?
Speaker 2Come on, man. I wish Sam would have said that's a red hulk in that catholic controller. You want to get nuts?
Speaker 1you want to get nuts, let's get nuts, and then, sam turns into a hulk which hulk you have the red hulk, blue hulk, red, white and blue hulk, red, white and blue hulk, american hulk, american hulk um penguin.
Speaker 2Uh, what else happens in this show? I mean you see American Hulk, american Hulk Penguin. What else happens in this show?
Speaker 1I mean you see the power dynamic of Gotham Shift. So we have, you have Alberto, not Alberto. Excuse me, you have Carmine, not Carmine. Falcone, sabasor, maroney, there it is. Clancy Brown, clancy Brown, mr Krabs is here we love Clancy Brown on the show.
Speaker 2Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1Channel favorite, clancy Brown. He's great, he is great.
Speaker 2He's great in everything. Did he give Maroney vibes? No, no, he gave Clancy Brown vibes. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1He was like are you From Oklahoma?
Speaker 2You're a little too burly to be a mobster, I think.
Speaker 1No no.
Speaker 2That guy's not.
Speaker 1Italian. No, his name is Clancy, first of all. No, I mean Salvador, but essentially you know Salvador's in prison and Penguin's like. I got this new drug, bliss, it's the big one. No, not another fake drug in this universe. You think of what I'm thinking? For Bliss what? It's the prerequisite or the prelude to whatever the fear toxin's going to be, because where do they get it from?
Speaker 2The Bliss. Do they have a cool name Like the Dropheads?
Speaker 1The Blissites, the Blissfits, the Blissfits. Ooh, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2I'm having a Blissfit. I'm having a Blisfit Batman 2, Blisfits versus Dropheads have them duke it out in the streets, batman's, just like.
Speaker 1I don't know what's happening.
Speaker 2Oh no, a bunch of drug addicts are fighting each other in the streets, we'll save that for a second.
Speaker 1Talking about the Batman, we'll save it. Where is he? No, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait. So essentially, I love the way this show starts too, because, boo, like you think, it drops you right back in. And then also you think about it too, of like, okay, alberto Falcone, we just had Carmine Falcone, like Alberto's gonna be in this thing, pops him immediately, murders him well, yeah, cause the, it's the, you know, the prodigal son kind of thing.
Speaker 2It's the prodigal son kind of thing you think is going to play out. He's the heir apparent, he's coming to avenge his father's throne.
Speaker 1How show of it. How spin-off as well. Yeah, exactly, immediately. No, immediately, no. Yeah, just out of Oz being angry, oz being Oz, that's exactly who he is. He's like don't talk crap about me, I don't care who you, and again, and he gives the O and then the Batman or the Penguin logo shows on the screen and I was like I immediately was sold, immediately, was sold after that too, and it's like it's such a catalyst to start the show, like how better to do it? Yep, sophia shows up. She's like I don't know who could have done this. But what if we ran Gotham? What are your thoughts on this? I was thinking maybe you and me team up, they get the bliss operation. Everything's running.
Speaker 1Oz is starting to kind of rope Vic in a little bit. He's trying to give Vic more. You learn. Oz has a mother, but no siblings. Hmm, hmm, huh, I'm no mathematician, but something's not adding up. That man. The Arkham Anthology not Anthology, but the Arkham-centric episode with Sophia, or Sophia's episode, basically. Oh, it's incredible. Was that the episode that was the highest rated episode on? Yes, it was one of the highest rated episodes on IMDB that they've ever had and it's brilliant it's such a good way to get again.
Speaker 2It's a great way to deploy the audience into this character and kind of make you feel bad for her, even though she's a maniac but why are you a maniac?
Speaker 1why are you like this? Why are you like this? I?
Speaker 2don't know, um, yeah, and then that's when she ultimately learns what happened to her brother.
Speaker 1Yo, oz is crazy. Remember when he kidnapped Salator's son? Yeah, and then he just kills him and his wife, yes. What a psycho dude.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then you realize this character in Sofia Falcone has been so hard done by.
Speaker 1She thinks she's only going to be there for six months and then Carmine's like actually, yeah, I'm Mark Strong and I think you should stay here for longer, for ten years, ten years, and then she commits her first murder. But you think, what's the thought?
Speaker 2that carmine kind of you know, he kind of orchestrated this whole thing to keep her in there, yes, to make sure she did the murder like that's the crazy thing about her character, is it's like an inverse of everything you think about, like arkham, where it's like this home to maniacs like arkham made her a maniac right? Well, not just arkham, but like the circumstance, she wasn't, she wasn't I mean, she was a normal girl that saw her mother.
Speaker 1You know her mother, quote unquote took her life, right, he was. She was murdered by carmine, right, he is the scranton strangler. He loved yo. Carmine falcone loves a good strangle, both versions. Yeah, I'm gonna over here, I'm gonna strangle you. Why. Why are you like this?
Speaker 2why? Why are you like this? Stop strangling people. Oh no, my daughter witnessed this. I need to send her to the mental hospital yeah. Get out of here, boss. Yeah, so she, yeah. So Arkham, ultimately, is what makes her into who she is, which is really interesting, right? Because you think you're crazy, you go to Arkham, but no, like you're normal. Then you become crazy, right? Which?
Speaker 1sucks Right and then it flash-forwards back to Sophia and Sophia's like. You know what I hate? All of you guys. You guys ruined everything for me. I'm taking the Gigantes and the Maronis. I'm running this. I built this brick by brick.
Speaker 2Yeah, she gets Maroni out, they team up, he gets Maroney out, they team up, they team up. That was a crazy team up, that was a crazy.
Speaker 1You're Clancy Brown. You're Clancy Brown from all the things. You're Clancy Brown from John Wick 4. He wasn't John Wick 4. Just that guy. He's him. He had a cool fedora in John Wick 4. And he just talked about the rules. He did talk about the rules.
Speaker 2a lot Dueling pistols.
Speaker 1I need a gun. What a picture John Wick 4 was. I love that movie so much. What a picture.
Speaker 2And then I also love how Oz, when he finds out that Moroni escapes, he's like oh my god.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, oh no, and I love Clancy Brown. If I'm not mistaken, he's a bigger guy himself. Like he's a big guy, so like I love how, like maroney's presence, just like in the batman movie, like physically maroney comes out and he, like you said, I was like, oh man, that guy's like seven feet tall, that's a big guy. All I have is this limp. Oz killed his brothers. Yeah, let's talk about that episode, cause you're like, wait, this guy's a proper. So Oz watched way too much TV when he was a kid, saw two, saw good fellows when he's way too young. Yeah, so he always talks about Rex Calabrese. It's the coolest name maybe ever for a gangster.
Speaker 1Rex Calabrese yeah, absolutely who's the guy that plays rex calabrese? Uh, it's such a good name, it's so good, rex calabrese, that's such a made-up name, but also I'd be like that's a cool name. So essentially, what you learn is oz had his what was one older one, one younger, he was the middle kid. He trapped both of them in a storm drain, wild, because he wanted his mom all to himself. What's up with this guy? What's up with this?
Speaker 2guy. I'm beginning to think he's no good. I don't think he's a good guy. Lewis Cancelme plays Rex Calabrese.
Speaker 1Did you see? This thing that's been floating around online is? They don't make faces like that, and it was him and anthony mackie, and so he's like I'm putting a team together of guys that just look like they're up to something. Yeah, they look like they got something they want to say, but they can't say it um, yeah, man finding out what oz did to his brothers and then, because this guy is just such a horrible human being.
Speaker 1They play that so well in the finale, where his mom's like tell me what you did. And Sophia's like tell your mom what you did. You told on me, sophia. You told on me. And she's like I already knew you did it, but you still wouldn't say it. I've always hated you. And he's like ah, that wait, mom, that wait real good. Um, essentially what happens. So you're just wrapping up those last two. I mean Oz, essentially Sophia, kidnaps Francis, takes her in. She's like I'm gonna murder you, but first tell me everything, please. I'm gonna use the tool from Arkham. Oh, it's shades from Luke Cage. Shades, man. We gotta talk about Luke Cage one day in full. Oh, we will. Todd Bowles is in that show. Why did Luke Cage try out for the New York Jets? I don't know. Man, that's gotta break a league rule, right, like that can't be allowed. Why not? He is?
Speaker 2Luke Cage yeah, why not he could? Why not he could be a? He play for the.
Speaker 1Jets, they could use it anyway. They could use it yeah.
Speaker 2Theo Rossi's in. This is um Sophia's therapist. He's good too. He's great. Everyone's so good in this, like top to bottom.
Speaker 1Moroni dies yeah yeah, oh, I love that. What did he say? He said his line again I got you. Yeah, I got you. He did get him. He is a level one yapper. He just kept yapping to him. Even after he killed him he kept yapping. Yeah, he can't help it. I love it. I love a game, says Oz. I love a game. He's the definition of loves the game. I love a crime game man. This is awesome Essentially, and episode six has one of the best stingers Not stingers, but it's one of the best endings when he kind of rallies all the underground gangs. Like what if we all worked together and took the gigantes and the Maronis out, cause they don't think about us? Like they want to talk crime. And where they came, they all came from money. None of them that are alive came from. Like some struggle. Like they're all rich, like they've always been rich. Like we all had to work for this. Like what if we took them out? We can all take them out. They're like here's a beer.
Speaker 2Play that of beer, play that one song that pink did. Um, yeah, no, that's a great point. And that was always kind of like his framing, even in the batman and what you know. Falcone kind of held over him too, was like you suck, you know, and I was like actually I don't, I don't suck, I don't suck.
Speaker 1You suck maybe, but I need this job, so you don't suck, boss. Episode eight what a finale. Yep, uh, vick, first off, fresh off his first kill. Um, well, the end of set, the heaven, end of seven stinger is sofia, essentially, you know, bombs the whole bliss. It's basically a fake out too, because that's not even the point. She just needs to draw oz out of there too and his little penguin hole. So bombs the heck out of that one, bombs the heck out of the place. And what a play out. Play in because man, that's ingrained in my brain where he sends sophia alberto in the trunk. So sophia sends a bomb in the trunk because she's a psycho.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then Francis is being tortured. It's not fun, it's not a fun sight. No, no, it's no good. Then Oz was like you do this to my mother To my mother.
Speaker 1My mother loves me and I love my mother and his mother's like. Well, actually.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a pretty big twist. She knew everything. She did know everything.
Speaker 1And she tried to kill him. Yeah, she did. She tried to have Rex Calabrese kill him Not the coolest mobster ever trying to kill me.
Speaker 2No, but she couldn't do it.
Speaker 1Because it's her son. That is her son. At the end of the day, that's my boy. They have a little. They have a little. You know? Powwow yeah, the court of owls were in this. What the heck was that? That was crazy. You're the court of owls. Wait a minute. This courtroom looks like a court of owls. It looks like some sort of court of owls. Said will smith and the suicideicide Squad? We're some sort of court of owls.
Speaker 2So that's it. Huh, we're some sort of court of owls that was nuts.
Speaker 1Actually I'm a penguin. Shut up Oz. Shut up Oz. Oz Cobb Stupid name, idiot Dang man. Oh God, well, they kind of do it. They do the thing Like. He takes out Sophia, sends her back to Arkham.
Speaker 2Sends her back to Arkham.
Speaker 1And everybody's kind of on their side. He did it, we did it, ma, but Ma's in a vegetable state.
Speaker 2Yeah, all the torture, all the torture got to her. All the trials and tribulations of having a maniac for a son, right Ditterin, and that's what ultimately kind of cuts that tether, the last tether that Oz had to any type of humanity, right, that's it.
Speaker 1What a psycho he is. Oh God, let's get this out of the way, man. So him and Vic are hanging. Vic, I love you, vic, like a son. We're gonna run this city, me and you, vic but you gotta die. When Vic said the line he's like you're the closest thing I got to family, or whatever line it was I said I said, aw, that's it and he's like and it's just gonna hate me in the end, and then just chokes him out and murders him in cold blood. He said I can't have anybody I love. Use this leverage against me. I can't.
Speaker 2Family, I hate my family.
Speaker 1I hate my family. I murdered my brothers and you think you were good, idiot Wild.
Speaker 2That was which I mean. You ultimately knew that this was going to happen, did you?
Speaker 1I mean, did you? I mean, yeah, but not like that. I thought vick was just gonna die. Like I thought vick was just gonna personally because and we didn't even talk about vick and his love interest in the show and like the vick makes a decision, vick picks the crime life like he fixed. Oh, and it's that line that rex gives. He's like the only.
Speaker 1I don't need guys that are willing to do this for money, because they can be bought. I need guys that are that are doing this for money because they can be bought. I need guys that are doing this because they need a father figure. I need guys that love the game and don't have love from a father. That's the guys I need, because they're going to be loyal. Unfortunately, vic was the guy that he was talking about for this and I said I need to sever myself from anything that can hurt me, because I'm going to be in the Batman part too, if you don't know. So I got to strap up. I got to fight Batman. I got to fight Batman in the next one and he's a problem. You ever see Robert Pattinson fight.
Speaker 2Um, yeah, he kills Vic and basically says like family makes people weak. That's why and that's the shit part is like vick was a means to an end.
Speaker 1yeah, he was just like everybody was to him every single last person that interact. He was to the point he was ready to team up with salvatore if it got him ahead. If it doesn't work, I'll kill you, salvatore. I'll team up with sofia. Doesn't work, you're dead. I'll use my mother if I need to. If not, I don't care what type of state you're in. But out of the psychotic respect for his mother, puts her in the room, dresses up his one female friend as his mother to dance with her in the penguin suit. At the end, what a Maybe. This was an Arkham show trapped in a penguin show.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's got some issues. He does have some issues and the biggest issue, you might argue, is the big spotlight that shines in the sky outside his apartment.
Speaker 1Because someone returned okay, let's talk about, let's talk okay well, wait, let's talk about the.
Speaker 2The, the shades comes back and he gives sophia a letter. It's from your, this is from cat woman what you're cat woman?
Speaker 1you're john cat woman. You're jill cat. You're jill cat woman from dc comics. What You're John Catwoman.
Speaker 2You're Jill Catwoman. You're Jill Catwoman From DC Comics. Yeah, so Sophia and Selina Kyle are half-sisters, so I'm assuming we're going to see her again In the Batman part two yeah, I like it and you don't need to do a lot, a lot with that character.
Speaker 1She took her heavy lift in this. Maybe just show her in Arkham. Just make sure that actress isn't, because she is phenomenal, yeah just make sure she's in.
Speaker 2She's in arkham whenever the things happen. Maybe joker breaks her out, whatever, um, so yeah he's. As he's dancing, there's a big, big slow, big, slow pan out and then that's the sound effect it makes when it goes in the sky.
Speaker 1Oh, I have a theory okay all right, finally we can talk about it. I have two options right. Option one, the obvious one he's just away. He's away. He went to Blood Haven. He's away. He took a weekend off. He comes back. He's like ah shoot, I can never take P. Batman can never take PTO again. See what happened off Dang dude. He took late time off.
Speaker 1Yeah, he did, because he's laid up with Catwoman. Option two, the much funnier option the Bat-Signal was out of batteries and they were trying to replace it for that whole week. So crime in Gotham was just up 100% and then Jim finally got it to go and he's like, oh God, he's gonna be so mad. Yeah, batman's waiting, waiting outside. He's like dang, I guess they're, are they? I guess I fixed. I guess I fixed the. I have hope now. I guess I fixed crime. I solved it. I solved crime by being a hopeful figure. I solved every crime. There's no more crime, guys. There was all the crime. All the crime happened. Every bit of batman doesn't have the news, yeah, yeah, no, he doesn't, no way he has the news. He doesn't care, he's Batman. Alfred wasn't tapped in. No, no, I think the oh, my third option is that he got recruited to be in the Justice League, finally. So he's like I'm gonna go cool, do the cool stuff in space and stuff yeah, so obviously the bat signal coming up, we're going into Batman part two.
Speaker 2It's winter this time, still Batmanmaning what do you do?
Speaker 1what do you? What do you? I mean? I well, I mean we could just address, like where do you think he is batman? Yeah, home. Or is it a situation where he's like I don't, this doesn't mean anything to anything, like to have fun, you low-level crime dealers, but then it's going to come back to bite him in the body.
Speaker 2The arrow season one thing. The Arrow Season 1 thing.
Speaker 1Right, he's like you're nothing, oh no, the Arrow Season 1 to Season 5 thing, oh no, I don't do street crime Right.
Speaker 2I don't do street crime, Diggle Right.
Speaker 1I'm too good for this. Like why do I need to help with this? I have street crime. I don't care if these people robbed a bank. Batman didn't really care about the mob in the first movie. No, he didn't.
Speaker 2The mob was just in the way he went to that club. How many times? Yeah, he did, he didn't stop the mob from doing anything.
Speaker 1No, he's like why do I sell all the drugs? I need to talk to the Penguin Right, because the Penguin will get me to the Riddler, Like I don't care about any of this stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah, you guys can do whatever you want. Yeah, I'm fine, like do the crime guys, Even when the Riddler assassinated Carmine Falcone, Batman was like eh.
Speaker 1Here's what it is. Even the seawall came down. Batman's just like where's that dang Riddler man?
Speaker 2Yeah, he was a point. Bruce Wayne is a psycho. He fits right in you freaking psycho. I'm just curious to see how. I mean. I do wonder if there's an element like did Matt Reeves know this was going to be as good as it was, or is he actively trying to?
Speaker 1Well, it's like the Craig Mason thing where I think that a little bit he knew he was cooking, a little bit narratively, having so much say in the first and last say in this.
Speaker 2Because now have you built this character up so well, to the point where people are just going to be like just make him the villain of the second movie.
Speaker 1I still think you find a way to do Mr Freeze in the second movie. I still think that's cool as heck. If they do that, it'd be cool. I just wonder, like how people? He's got a big freeze gun, but it's the grounded matt reeves verse. Where'd you get the big freeze gun from?
Speaker 2I just, I just wonder if people are going to be like if penguin, if people are going to think penguin is like undercooked, if he's not like the main undercooked. But I do wonder if, like they think, he's gonna be like underserved, not being the main villain, like I mean, you built him up as such a kind of a force of nature, because what it looked.
Speaker 1I mean I think they're gonna do the court of that we and we haven't. And I mean you still could do penguin as a main villain, but it all bleeds into a bigger, bigger conspiracy More birds, More birds. La rata la no hablos espanol fellas.
Speaker 2Yeah, he can't just go back to like funny guy.
Speaker 1No, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like he belongs in Arkham Asylum now.
Speaker 2Yeah, Batman shows up and he's like oh man, You're a much bigger deal now. Dude, I gotta deal with this. I watched the Penguin on HBO Max. That's what he was doing. That's what Batman was doing. He was watching the show. He was watching the show on HBO Max and then he looked out the window and he was like wait a minute, that's actually happening here. Wait a second. Wait, I am in Gotham. Wait, I thought this was just a.
Speaker 1TV show Alfred. Cancel my Mac subscription. I gotta go take care of some things. I was so invested in the storyline. Here's my bigger party foul that we talked about before we hopped on here. Who cares about Batman? Where's Jim Gordon, the commissioner of the police department? I mean, gosh darn, what are you doing? And there were detectives in this show. The guy from the Batman was in this show, the guy with the incredible voice. We love you protecting this guy, jim. They recast Kenzie. Kenzie was in this show.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm still like where was anybody in this?
Speaker 1That's what I'm saying man, that guy really did show back up in the show. He's a bad Batman. No, Jim Gordon's a horrible no. Is Jim Gordon still a detective right now, or is he commissioner yet?
Speaker 2Didn't he get promoted to the end? No, no, no, that's gotta be racist.
Speaker 1No, he was too busy being in the Last of Us. He did such a good job, did he? Yeah, he coordinated everybody being safe in the Gotham Square Garden, yeah and he found all the corrupt cops, all of them. Not all of them. He found like seven of them and there's like 50 of them it's impossible to find all the corrupt cops.
Speaker 1He removed a sink from a house. That's falling apart. He's like guys, I did it, I fixed the whole house, I don falling apart. He's like guys, I did it, I fixed the whole house.
Speaker 2I don't know what jim gordon was doing he was hanging.
Speaker 1He also had a vacation. He had a beach vacation he was hanging out with.
Speaker 2He was hanging out with the batman. They were watching the penguin together. Yeah, max, like should we do something about this? It's not real it's a show.
Speaker 1Yeah it TV Jim. Yeah, this documentary is awesome man.
Speaker 2And the bat signal.
Speaker 1He's like uh-oh, Ah, shit. Well, who turned the bat signal on Martinez?
Speaker 2Man, it was a great show. Oh my God, it was phenomenal. It was so good, it was phenomenal.
Speaker 1I also want to just get into crime now because of how good this show was and it beat that it beat the allegations?
Speaker 2yeah, it did. It beat the sopranos allegations yeah, because everybody was psychotic wait, are they not psychotic in the sopranos? They're pretty. I mean, look, toby soprano's a mild-mannered guy, but he's always in therapy well, so sophia falcone yeah, oz needs to be.
Speaker 1Lord oz does need to be in therapy. Rip vick man, rip vick and vick's family man. Now, like I said, that was such a jarring scene to watch, like when the seawall came down and you finally felt the vulnerability of like watching all these people die in this in the city. Or like, oh God, this is the Gotham Riddler no good. Yeah, I love seeing that scene or that meme where people are just like the Riddler's, like I need to start a war on rich people, murders, all the poor people.
Speaker 2Yeah, riddler no good turns out, yeah, turns out, riddler's no good. Give me a spinoff show you want to see now good, give me a spinoff show you want to see now, um spinoff show that I want to see now. Huh, um, I mean, the crazy part is like, not a lot of these characters have been like built up, you know, like I've you know, maybe like a cat woman thing.
Speaker 1That'd be cool, yeah, you get zoe kravitz to lead her own show. You could put sophia falcone back into that show as I mean yeah that would be kind of interesting.
Speaker 1You could have them kind of face off against each other, like they can be the true hero and villain. You can kind of take a look at their life if they would have been sisters in full, like if he would have accepted her as well too. Yeah, um, yeah, I mean a gotham pd show led by. So that's the difficulty of this is that gotham already came out, like if Gotham never existed. I think your first thought is you put Jeffrey Wright as the main character of a Gotham crime show. Yeah, and let him detective everywhere.
Speaker 2Yeah, he can. Finally he can get through that backlog of crimes that he's been ignoring. Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, it's cool. This universe is a very tight group of characters. I have an interesting one.
Speaker 1You do a Flying Grayson show or you do a show about the whole show with the Flying Graysons, like the trials and tribulations of being in a circus Directed by Martin Scorsese.
Speaker 2Oh no, directed by martin scorsese. Oh no, oh no. The trapeze guy called out flying graces.
Speaker 1You're up, finally. Wait, you mean, they're a whole family of just our luck. Just our luck, guys. What are the odds? No way, no way. Tim drake has this. Oh god, I'm gonna pull this off in the bet. There's, there's they. There's no shot. Right, what? Because I think robin's gonna be in the batman 2. Sure, there's no shot. No, actually, commit to the bit, matt Reeves, don't fake it. Have the Flying Graysons be in this movie, have them fall off the trapeze and have the parents die. Have Penguin be responsible for it. That would be good. I mean, it's the same thing you did in the 90s movie with Two-Face, but it's the same thing with Two-Face, but it's the same thing. I hate the circus.
Speaker 2Kill those acrobats now.
Speaker 1Said the penguin, give me an Arkham show plays, gotham PD show plays, which was one of the original ideas which might actually get greenlit. Now Bring Martina Hashtag, make Martina as the main character. Sure, like I said, said you can do, I hope, in between two. You know what I would do in between two and three. If you want to do like a more superhero show, do a robin show. Like have whoever you get to play dick grayson. Like give them their own show. Like no batman. Like you can say like batman's, like he's, he's trusting me with god, he's because the penguin's locked up and there's no true crime, I can have fun I get to stop the petty crime um, it's all the crime.
Speaker 2Batman doesn't want to go out and stop. Yeah, he's like this is boring man. This guy robbed a bank. Batman's like all right, all right, see you later. He said I'm gonna run, point. I got it. I'm on the phone.
Speaker 1Yeah, those are. I mean you can do. I mean you could have a. I mean the Hugo like you. Can you think about it? You have a main character to lead these shows. Like penguin leads the penguin, obviously, like I think Hugo, strange, would be a good person to lead the Arkham show. You can do, like I said, the Gotham PD. You get Jeffrey Wright, you do an actual Robin show. Those are like that covers a lot of your bases. You can do a League of Shadows show if you want to do two. I think that would be interesting. Do a little League of Shadows show. You get somebody to play Ra's al Ghul. Do Tali al Ghul in there as well too. I think that would be kind of cool.
Speaker 2Yeah, kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the cool thing about this batman universe. Um is sorry, I had to sneeze he blew cage. I'm luke cage. Um, the cool thing about this batman universe is it's still relatively young, like everyone's still relatively young. The characters, like, are kind of all kind of at the start of their respective things, which is right for all sorts of stuff, right as long as you let matt reeves just do whatever he wants, and they're committed.
Speaker 1I can feel a commit to this universe and like I think it's not, but it's also the audience this show helped. I think this show also helped those people that are, like, still teetered because people are nerds like teetered on robert pattinson's the batman, like I think this show helped a little bit to be like, and a bunch of people were saying I hope Batman kicks the crap out of him after what he did to Vic which is great, which is really great. I need the Batman to come and get justice for Vic, even though Vic also was doing crime.
Speaker 2Yeah, Batman's not going to care so much about that.
Speaker 1Right, he's just going to be like can you stop doing more crime bud?
Speaker 2Man, I let you go. I let you go at the end of the first one, right.
Speaker 1He did. Uh, barry Kilgan's gonna. They're gonna go full send to make him the Joker. Right, I think you probably put the foot on the gas for something like that. I mean, you don't get an actor like that every day of the week.
Speaker 2Yeah, Again it just goes back to like if that movie was so damaging to the character that I don't know if they want to try it.
Speaker 1I don't know if the Joker, though, supersedes that as a character of how popular, like you want to talk about superhero to supervillain relationship, like that is the one the Joker Maybe that's another character that you kind of just test drive in like a TV show before you like, try to deploy them in the movie and that's what would work in the Arkham show If he breaks out and maybe that's what you have.
Speaker 1You have this crazy guy. You can do that in the Gotham PD show. This crazy psycho breaks out, he's wreaking havoc and then it's revealed that's who it is.
Speaker 2Let him get test-driven in a show first, just because, again, I don't think it can be understated enough how much I feel like damage Joker-Folia did to the character Right, not just in the eyes of the viewer but the eyes of Warner Brothers. Right Are probably like Joker man, get him out of here, right?
Speaker 1So maybe you just test-drive, maybe you just get Barry Keoghan for a show and, like, test drive him a little bit, yeah don't make him the main character either, right, unless you do like kind of what I said about in like the batman 2, you make him like this hannibal lecter figure I think that's the coolest idea in the world, because and then that goes against the point for joker 2 of like that would immediately get it away, yep and like, obviously the thing you're not equating for is Matt Reeves. Is Matt Reeves like? Matt Reeves is a genius at this thing? Like you want to get me to care about somebody, give him to Matt Reeves and let me care about them. Like I feel like him being in Arkham and being like and again you're going to have to pick if you're going to go that route.
Speaker 1I feel like Scarecrow is a good villain to go this way with, because Scarecrow is the best teeter, because mr freeze is intrinsically a little tougher to pull off, you think, unless he's like this, just like murderer, that's like you know cold, come on man. Um, this murderer, that's kind of like you know the way he does. It is in a way of like he does it around, like he freezes his victims or whatever. It is Not with a big cold gun, but he just puts them in freezers, whatever Big cold bazooka. Yeah, maybe he was a past doctor at Arkham as well whose wife got sick. I still think Giancarlo Esposito would be, I mean phenomenal, as Mr Freeze, sterling K Brown is a name that popped into my head too. That, I think, would also be phenomenal. I think it's a voice thing for Mr Freeze, yeah, but I think there's some actors you can circle. I think Harvey Dent's a character they really want to dive into as well too. I could feel them making a big deal out of Harvey Dent in the second movie.
Speaker 1Feels like he would fit in really nicely with this kind of crime drama kind of tone right this universe has right uh I know uh josh arnett or um what's his name, from uh oppenheimer and from trap is josh hartnett yeah, josh hartnett is like a name that a lot of people would love to see.
Speaker 1I still think oscar isaac would be a phenomenal two-face as well, too. Oh yeah, and then Joker and then Batman 3, you just do the Joker. Like you just go full send-in to the Joker. Yeah, that movie's probably not going to come out until like 2030. I know that's crazy. Yeah, and you know what you do In this universe with this crime aspect. You probably just do the killing joke if that's the case, like robin is like dick grayson can be nightwing by that time, like this universe is played out by that time. If you do the shows, the connecting shows in between two, you really round out gotham like you can really do dick grayson he's already grown up. And then you get jason todd and like barry kogan murders whoever this kid's playing in this. And then if you do the League of Shadows show, you can bring him back.
Speaker 2I am the League of Shadows.
Speaker 1Remember when Oliver Queen fought Ra's al Ghul on that cliff? Yeah, that was crazy. Remember they were going to bring Liam.
Speaker 2Neeson back for that. For what? For Arrow?
Speaker 1No shot. Yeah, liam Neeson would never do that. He would have done it. No, he wouldn't have. Sure, he would have no shot.
Speaker 2That guy does anything. No, no, he doesn't, sure he does. He did that movie where he was on a train, taken on a train. Taken on a train. I'm pretty sure he did it on a plane, taken on a plane. He A snowplow. Take it on a snowplow, don't tell me Liam Neeson wouldn't have been an arrow.
Speaker 1I don't know, man, but that's the penguin. Yeah, you're John the Penguin he really was the penguin.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was the penguin all along.
Speaker 1It was the penguins that waddled along the way. And boy did he waddle in this show. Yeah, he did, it was the penguins that waddled along the way.
Speaker 2And boy, did he waddle in this show? Yeah, he did, it was the penguins. Are they going to give?
Speaker 1him the monocle. Oh man, they already did the Alfred show on whatever network that was, so they can't do a young Andy Serkis Alfred show.
Speaker 2No, they can't. They can't retread the Pennyworth cinematic universe.
Speaker 1We're going to talk about Pennyworth in like five years.
Speaker 2That episode will be great when we really have nothing else to talk about. Yeah, pennyworth Question mark.
Speaker 1Pennyworth how much is a Pennyworth Is going to be the episode title.
Speaker 2Come on man. Oh no, that was low.
Speaker 1Oh man, I hope Robert Pattinson beats the living daylights out of him, just pummels him. Maybe you do the opening sequence, you do like a big, a huge action set piece opening sequence with the penguin and the penguins goons. Because I because we talked about it when we reviewed the batman that we think that, like you, you guys don't understand that this universe is way more comic book-y than you would ever hope to admit. Yeah, yo boss, chain of command, you just gonna let the bat in here. Like this, like this is the best universe there's ever been. It's pretty good.
Speaker 2Yeah, all right, we gotta go, man, we gotta go man, we gotta out here. Um, yeah, the penguin. Good, good, just great television man. Yeah, it's so good. Shout out to everyone involved um, colin farrell, he's gonna win that emmy. Chris and miladi, oh what, what a heat check. Yeah, um, matt reeves the whole, because this could have easily just been like a thing you know what I mean like a fun thing that just led to the batman part two, but now it's like this is like its own show.
Speaker 1That's just yeah this is like its own show.
Speaker 2That's just really good. Yeah, this is like its own thing now, yeah.
Speaker 1So there was people that I knew that were just watching the show without ever seeing the Batman. They were like you saw this Penguin show and I was like, just wait till I tell you about the Batman from 2022.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm sure it's gotten so um get to see what incredible of a picture that is. Yeah, so I can't wait to see how this all bleeds in, um, but until then, you can follow us on Twitter at project I end up underscore pod. You can follow us on Facebook. You can follow us on YouTube at youtubecom slash project Infinite podcast. You can follow us on Tik TOK at the project at the project the infinite pod.
Speaker 2You can follow us on Instagram at the Project Infinite pod. Next week we finally get around to talking about Venom.
Speaker 1It might be that time, Venom unless, unless there's a Superman trailer when does Superman and? Lois end. I think they got a few more weeks. It might not end until January. Oh, are they doing one of those weird? I don't think they're gonna do the break, but I just think this season's what 13 episodes, and they just hit episode 8? 13 episodes, though. Come on man. I got the Batman playing because I'm a psycho, much like all the characters.
Speaker 2So Superman and Lois will be over December 2nd.
Speaker 1Oh, so there's only like two episodes or three episodes left then.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, december 2nd will be the last episode.
Speaker 1Yes, we will talk about Superman. That show deserves to be talked about, to the point where Marv Wolfman himself said these are some of the best Superman stories you can find.
Speaker 2Tyler Hoechlin is getting just like. I'm sad it took until season 4 for people to realize it.
Speaker 1How great of a Superman he is. Yeah, is he the second best Superman we've ever had?
Speaker 2I think he's right there, man. I really do. I know Christopher Reeve is untouchable, but I really think he's right there.
Speaker 1Dude, he's so good. I'm watching this show from the beginning because I didn't finish season three, so I'm watching from the jump. Even me just watching the first episode'm like dude. I'm literally sitting here like this can't be real.
Speaker 2How great this is, man yeah, and it's just the, it's just those quiet moments. You know.
Speaker 1So yeah, it's a family drama at the end of the day, it's such a good family drama they built yeah, I so, yeah, we'll definitely talk about that, definitely in a few weeks.
Speaker 2So, yeah, we'll talk. We'll probably talk about Venom next week.
Speaker 1Venom, but in the great words of Jim Gordon, family favorite and channel favorite, we gotta go man, we gotta go.
Speaker 2Man. Um, what are you showing? This was around his neck.
Speaker 1Open your eyes, open your eyes death taxes.
Speaker 2What's the matter with you, chief? This isn't the way to do this. Death taxes and someone in a Batman movie doing a voice yeah, can't escape it, yo Jim.
Speaker 1Gorman, Yo Jeffrey Wright's the best. He is the best we love Jeffrey Wright. This is channel favorite, jeffrey Wright.
Speaker 2Yeah, so we'll see you next week. We'll have a good fun time talking about Venom. $400 million, not him, 400 million dollars, not bad, not bad, not bad this movie just it's bulletproof.
Speaker 1Man them using that as a bargaining chip for kevin feige is going to be the best thing in the world. When spider-man 4 comes out, it's gonna be insane. I can't believe this. It's so good they did noel I know insane.
Speaker 2All right, guys, we'll see you next week. Until then, wait, I didn't do my bit. Dang from me from the Careful man, from the Salvatore Moroni of the podcast K See K. He was good. Yeah, he was menacing, he only got undone by a heart attack.
Speaker 1Yeah, he didn't get. I forgot he didn't get killed by Oz. No, I was.
Speaker 2His aura killed him um, yeah, so until then, now that I got the bit done, we'll see you next week. Goodbye, peace.
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