The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
140 - From The Sands of Rome: Gladiator II Review & Discussion!
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Happy Post Thanksgiving everyone! After a little break for the holiday, we are back this week with a review! Can a sequel ever truly live up to its iconic predecessor? Get ready for an epic discussion on the much-anticipated Gladiator sequel starring the legendary Denzel Washington. Did this legacy sequel live up to the original? Or did the specter of Russell Crowe loom as large as Maximus’s over Rome? Find out what we thought as we talk that and so much more this week! Timecodes are provided if you want to skip around to your topic of choice! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:57 NOLAN CASTING ALERT – Robert Pattinson and Charlize Theron
06:28 Absolute Batman Receiving Critical Acclaim
13:28 The Game Awards Controversy – Shadow of the Erdtree GAME OF THE YEAR?
21:59 Superman & Lois Ends, Wrapping Up DC Cable TV
27:20 Gladiator II Review & Discussion – SPOILERS AHEAD
01:02:26 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: Superman and Lois Retrospective
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Speaker 2:Podcast Go tell your friends, it's the Infinite Podcast my journey never ends.
Speaker 1:It's the Infinite.
Speaker 2:Podcast with Rob and Kork the Cube. Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom, from movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We've got you covered. I'm Rob. I'm here, as always with Court, took a little holiday break. Yeah, we did. Happy Thanksgiving everybody Happy.
Speaker 2:Thanksgiving everybody. But we're back now and we're going to talk about Gladiator Yep Ha-ha. This was probably one of our more anticipated movies of the year, 100 from when it was first announced. Um, it's kind of cool, like you know where, we've done so much of this now that, like we're we're like chronicling like our journeys for these, for like certain movies, from when they're concepted and when they're announced, right so like when we actually get to see them yeah, um, the best version of that was oppenheimer, in my opinion, where we had a full realization from top to bottom, and we're going to talk about some more stuff like that in a little bit too so, um, but this is one of those movies too.
Speaker 2:We're like, I remember, like when, you know we talked about, like when it first started happening, and then you know, obviously the big news is like, when denzel got added to it, we were like what is this? Like what is happening little did we know that denzel was gonna embark on his blockbuster movie, arc sure, which it seems like he's he's going into with this. And then obviously the the idea that he could potentially be in black panther 3 like he's, he's, he's checking. It feels like he's checking off like a like bucket list items.
Speaker 1:It's funny because, you know, just to touch on that real quick and his announcement that his retirement is now imminent, and now there's a clock that's now been put and placed upon the world, unfortunately, you're talking about the retirement of one of, if not the greatest actor that's ever lived.
Speaker 1:So for somebody like him to you know we already talked about it a little bit last week the idea that ryan coogler was able to, you know, allure him and, you know, excite him for a role for a marvel movie I mean, you can just toss the marvel part of that aside, I just think he wants to work with ryan coogler and I think that's a bit of you know, another actor that similar in age that was going up with him was angela bassett as well too. So somebody else that was, you know that probably told him like hey, no, this, this guy is incredible, and I mean the most poetic thing I think Denzel is doing is he's doing a lot of. He's doing a lot of classic movies and he's doing a lot of Shakespearean things, because that's where he started. He started Shakespeare was the thing he started on, and to end on that same thing, it's just like poetry, it rhymes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we'll talk about him and gladiator because I think he's absolutely sensational. Oh yeah, that's one of his and it's saying something that that is one of his better performances he is he has put up in his career yeah, um, but before we that we have a little bit of news, not not a crazy amount, but we do have some, including obviously more christopher nolan casting so I love that.
Speaker 2:This is his. His gimmick now he's got us, he's truthfully got us. This is his gimmick now with his films is that, like every week someone's added to the cast and in the last two weeks since we've been out, uh, we've added two more kind of a-list actors, so we've added charlie's their own and robert pattinson obviously a, a christopher nolan kind of mainstay, I guess. So, yeah, I you know. Obviously this is shaping up to be something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's going to be outstanding. I mean, you're looking at Tom Holland, zendaya Lupita Nyong'o, anne Hathaway, robert Pattinson, charlize Theron. I mean directors would be chopping out the bits to get two of those actors, one of those actors, and he's got six of them, and now he's got six of them, and now he's going to look to add more on top of that as well too. So, um, and matt damon, um, excuse me for forgetting one of the main leads of this movie, but how I think this is going to play out, if it, if this is this action type of, you know, this rescue helicopter movie, I guess is the best way to explain it. I mean, you know, you can put players in a movie like that as well too, because I I wonder if it's, because I believe they said it's from a terrorist attack as well too. So I wonder how far he's going to go into dipping into some of those thoughts and ideas. I think it's going to be. I mean, nonetheless, I don't think I I have no choice but to think that might be the best movie of 2026, correct? Yeah, this movie's coming out. Um, I have no choice but to believe this could be the potentially the best movie of 2026 and again, I'm super happy that tom holland is getting to lead this movie too.
Speaker 1:I mean with with matt damon, I mean one of your most classic actors that you'll find. But then it's just the rounding out of the cast. He does that so incredibly well, rounds out a cast, and you know I love it that. He's kind of getting to that point where it's like or he's, I mean, oppenheimer solidified it that he's at that point where everybody is a list when they go to work with him, like everybody on that main cast will be a list and they will stay a list. So, um, the charlize theron one is the one I mean from this channel.
Speaker 1:Everybody knows how much I love robert pattinson, but that charlize theron one, that's the one I'm actually excited to see. I'm I'm really excited to see what he does with lupita and hathaway and and charlize I want to see of. I just want to get a concept of this movie. This reminds me of the Tenet thinking. Remember when the first Tenet trailer came out and everybody's like what? The what is this? I do think this one's going to be a little bit more face front, but I think he's going to flex his action muscles for this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which you know it's been. I'm trying to think I guess Dunk trying to think like his last, like I guess, like you know, dunkirk was probably maybe like the last thing that he's done. That had like not an action focus, but you know kind of he doesn't. You know it goes back and forth like it waffles back and forth. You know what I mean. We kind of talked about it.
Speaker 1:It's like either he gets his narrative to do and then he gets to do like a franchisee thing and then he kind of switches back. So now he this one seems because it's either he gets a historical thing or like a franchise thing. So now he's swapped back. And I remember after tenant came out in 2020, I and then oppenheimer got announced I was like he's gonna go back to do something that's like original inception from his mind. I believe so. Um, I do hope that's the case. I hope this is a christopher nolan. I still a piece of me still wants it to be tenant to, but I know that's not going to happen. But whatever idea that it is I know IMAX is. He's working with IMAX they're getting that brand new technology ready to use. I mean, just as somebody that loves film, I can't wait. I don't know what this is going to be but I anticipate it's going to absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly 100. Um, we gotta, we gotta talk a little bit about comics news. Yeah, we do. Um. So dc um launched the absolute universe um early. You know early, not even that long ago, like two months ago. Right october is when the absolute universe launched. Um, it's a new continuity written in the dc universe, basically surrounding batman, superman and wonder woman. So they're basically um going back to their, their, their roots, their core. Three members of the justice league with absolute flash, absolute green lantern coming um early next year.
Speaker 1:Um, and it's basically completely revamped um stories around these characters so I know the the thought process is this it is essentially you take wonder woman, batman, superman and whatever other characters because I'm assuming they're going to keep adding characters into this absolute line and you change one core thing about them. Yep, so superman's big change is that instead of Krypton you know, blowing up RIP, he grew up on Krypton, but he still has the same values. So I mean he was taught, I mean Krypton, this advanced society that he got to grow up on. This time that's a cool one.
Speaker 1:Batman is just a tank. He's seven feet tall. He's seven feet tall. The core difference for him is that he, he's not rich. He's not rich, he's just every man. Uh, his father is a teacher. His father still gets killed, but his father is a teacher and he dies right in front of him again. So he's essentially this, not rich. You know he had to make everything that he did, but he absolutely owns gotham, and I love the alfred piece in there as well too. That al Alfred piece is really cool. Wonder Woman might be the coolest one is that she was raised in hell right Instead of Themyscira.
Speaker 1:yeah, Instead of Themyscira, wonder Woman was raised in hell and she is an absolute just beast. I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean the crazy thing about this is the absolute Batman run is selling extremely well crazy thing about this is the absolute batman run is selling extremely well. Yeah, it is, um, which is not something that anyone really talks about in comics. Is is obviously like the heyday of comics is kind of past as far as sales. And you know, um, you'd be lucky if any comic sells more than you know a couple tens of thousands of comics nowadays, but this absolute batman run is selling 400 000 units.
Speaker 1:Uh, that's since its launch, which is kind of crazy and I think I think what happened too is that people were, I know the big controversy when they was announced was the look and the bat logo, because people are nerds, including us. We're everybody's like what is this batman logo and why does he look like that? And then they read the comment. They were like wait a minute is Is he cool.
Speaker 2:He's cool, he is pretty cool. Yeah, I think it's awesome that a new kind of universe is getting kind of traction. I think that's cool. It makes me feel like people have kind of like a hunger for new stories instead of retreading, and I think that's a hopefully, that's a good precedent to set, right, so that you know, not just for comics, but like movies, tv, like it makes people, you know, hopefully it'll make executives kind of realize that like, hey, maybe people don't just want, you know, retreads of old things. Maybe they do want, maybe they want familiar characters, but they want new things. Right, you know what I mean, right, um, and I think that's, I think that's cool. Um, so I'm, I'm, you know, I I can't say I'm not intrigued Um, like I, I want to definitely pick it up and see, see what it's all about too.
Speaker 1:Give me a character and give me one thing you would change about them for an absolute line um like a dc character um oh, I got a good one, I got one let me think here um, I might.
Speaker 2:Hmm, I would say I would do robin, but make him be brought up by the joker instead of batman. That's a good one, that's actually really good.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. That would be a good piece just to slide right into the absolute Batman. It would just be.
Speaker 2:Dick Grayson. Right, but he got discovered by the Joker instead of by Batman, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's awesome in so many ways. I would want a little bit more of like a it's not a one-shotty thing, but I want a little bit of an idea where it's dark side, but he is the all. He's the high father instead, and dark side's a good guy. Instead of being this pinnacle of evil, he is the. He's the pinnacle of hope for the universe, so everybody kind of looks to him. Instead of being this, you know, absolutely maniacal evil being yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:That'd be cool, I think. Yeah, that to do like the cosmic stuff would be cool too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that new, that new God-y era of things, but still have Darkseid. Just be an absolute good guy. He's just a good guy that just wants to help everybody and restore the universe. But that Joker, that Robin being one of the Jokers, would be insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the Joker never really had a sidekick before Besides, I mean Harley Quinn's kind of a sidekick, right. Never really had like a sidekick before besides, like I mean harley quinn's kind of a sidekick, right. Um, I'm just looking at the uh, the premises of the flash and green lantern the flash. I'm intrigued for yeah, yeah, the flash one's cool, like there's no speed force, like he just wally west, just has his powers okay oh, and it's wally west yeah, okay, yep, absolute flash is wally west, um, so that's that.
Speaker 2:One absolute green lantern is a focus on Hal Jordan, jon Stewart, guy Gardner and Joe Mullion. After a large green lantern falls from the sky and crushes a town, causing widespread paranoia. Interesting, what are they? Cops, I guess? Yeah, interesting. And then the Martian Manhunter one is focusing a focusing on fbi agent john jones as his body is taken over by an alien consciousness referred to as a martian, causing him to slowly go insane. Interesting, that's an interesting one. So that's gonna be more of a psychological take on martian manhunter. That's kind of cool, yeah, so yeah, I mean cool stuff. Um, I definitely like that idea. Um, it's kind of similar to like the Marvel, like what-if stuff, but in a more serialized way.
Speaker 2:Right Because the Marvel, what-if stuff is very like one-shotty, one-shotty, yep and it doesn't really mean anything Right? Whereas like this is going to be like an actual, like universe.
Speaker 1:Well, what I also know is happening in the normal DC, like the DC mainline stuff, is that they're doing I know they're doing some lifting with Superman right now and then there's a new Justice League title like the Justice League kind of reset, revamped of like all the heroes on earth, you know, rebranded into the Justice League. So any hero that's on earth essentially turns into, essentially turns in like they're part of the Justice League automatically. So I think they there's going to be a situation where they're going to all cross paths, like the absolute universe and the main universe are going to cross, a situation where they're going to all cross paths Like the absolute universe and the main universe are going to cross. Maybe they're going to have to take them on. That would be interesting.
Speaker 2:Batman fights bigger Batman. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Batman fights bigger Batman. I still think the absolute Superman would take on the main Earth Superman pretty well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm keen on it for sure. The Game Awards. So the Game Awards is coming up next week, next Thursday, the Game Awards is coming out and the Game of the Year the Game of the Year, the main thing I wanted to hit, obviously, you know the nominees are what they are across all categories. It was a really really, really strong year for gaming I think across the board 2024. Strong year, um, for gaming, I think across the board um 2024.
Speaker 2:But, um, the main thing I really really wanted to hit on with this was the game of the year nominees. Um, yeah, because it sparked some controversy and, I think, uh, justified controversy. So, the game of the year nominees um astrobot, no surprise, um, maybe the greatest game ever. It's, it's really good. Man, especially um. I don't know if you've how, if you fired up your playstation and since yesterday, but they, they, uh, they gave an update to the ui, that um, it fires up like the old playstation one um, and it gives you like a little 30th anniversary graphic and then you can set your ui to like playstation 1 ui, playstation 2 ui, ps3 ui, ps4 ui which one are you picking?
Speaker 1:which one do you have the most nostalgia? Can I guess what it is?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's the ps2 yeah, yeah, ps2, it's one of the, and actually just uh. Ps2 just made the news by by uh becoming the biggest selling console of all time, because people are still still buying them. So it's over 160 million units, I think that's insane, so it's overtaking the switch as the highest uh selling console all time insane but yeah, astrobot is just this love letter to playstation. Um, it's a super fun platformer. Um, I really enjoyed it yeah um black myth, wukong um nominated for game of the year.
Speaker 1:remember we were talking about this and I know you had some skepticism that this game and I had a feeling just watching some of the gameplay I said this game is built to be game of the year in a year where there's no absolute monster, because remember last year, that last year was like everybody on that list had a deserving piece to get that game of the year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's cool that Wukong got nominated.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's going to win, but I do think there is a game award for player's choice game of the year, and I mean anyone who follows the NBA and is familiar with the NBA all-star voting. When Jeremy Lin was around, when Yao Ming was around, they would just run away with fan voting because the outpouring of support for Chinese you know, any type of Chinese export, whether it's a game, whether's it's an athlete is is insane. Um, black with wukong cleaned up at the golden joysticks, which is, um, all fan driven voting, right, um, so I expect black myth will win that. I don't think it's gonna win game of the year. It could win action game of the year, sure? Um, I think the action in that game is really tight, yeah, um, so I think that's cool.
Speaker 2:Um, bellatro got nominated for game of the year. I know this raised a lot of eyebrows. I wasn't familiar with bellatro. It's apparently a uh for people who are familiar with the roguelike genre. It's a roguelike poker game. So you, that's interesting, it's super interesting. You get, you know, you get hands and you, you know, as you progress through the game, you get more like perks and upgrades, and it's a roguelite, so there's like boss, boss battles um a guy named jim with a visor on and then when you lose, like you go back to the beginning but you keep some of your like, your perks and stuff.
Speaker 2:I I it's. The fact that it got nominated for game of the year is kind of crazy, but, like everyone I've talked to that's played, it is like no, like it actually is really really good. Um, metaphor, rephantazio, which is a game that I just started a couple days ago. It is a classic high fantasy turn-based JRPG made by the same developers that have made the Persona series. I'm really enjoying it. So far it's very well voice acted, the animation is really great. It's a classic turn-based RPG.
Speaker 2:Final Fantasy VII, rebirth no surprise, the juggernaut of pretty much of the Game Awards this year got nominated for the most awards, seven Classically Including Game of the Year, rpg of the Year, performance of the Year. Brianna White, who voices Aerith, got nominated for that, I know. Cody Christensen won the Golden Joystick for Performance of the Year and Brianna won the Supporting Performance of the Year, won the Golden Joystick for Performance of the Year and Brianna won the Supporting Performance of the Year at the Golden Joysticks. So Rebirth obviously is kind of like the frontrunner here, until you get to the sixth nominee, which is Elden Ring Shadow of the Erd Tree, the DLC expansion for Elden Ring, the game that came out in 2022. And this is the one that came out in 2022.
Speaker 2:Um, and this is the one that has garnered the most controversy in the sense that in an expansion um DLC has been nominated for game of the year, um, I think it sets a bad precedent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this landscape is. It's interesting, it's, it's. I don't want to say it's, it's. You know it's interesting, it's, it's. I don't want to say it's, it's. You know it's thought provoking, like the idea that a, an expansion, would get any sort of nomination for anything, Be that there's a poker game that's a rogue Like that was not. That was nominated for game of the year, I mean, and we knew it and you know it's funny and we're. You know what's funny and we'll talk about this in January.
Speaker 1:Where the time rolls around, movies this year are kind of in the same boat. There's been a lot of incredible movies that came out this year. I mean a bunch. I don't care what anybody says, I'll argue this to the end of the day. Every year there are so many incredible movies that come out Every single year. I don't care If you don't think so, you're not watching the right movies. You the right movies, you just aren't. There are so many movies that are coming out. This year is going to be similar for the oscars, where there's going to be a lot of toss-up and there's going to be a lot of head scratchers. There's going to be a lot of nominations that people don't think make a lot of sense and it's funny that gaming it. But 2023 for the movies and 2023 for gaming were two pinnacle years in the modern age for gaming and movies, so it's very similar in that aspect yeah, I just think the alderman thing is wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I likened it to you. Know, you can talk about like a movie or a t or, or like a or an album, right, um, artist releases an album in like 2020 that wins album of the year, and then, like 2022, they come out with like the same album, like deluxe edition, right, that has like bonus tracks, and then that would be like if that artist, if that album, got nominated for album of the year again. That's kind of what's going on with shadow of the earth tree, right, um, being nominated for game of the year. It just it's.
Speaker 2:It just sets a weird precedent because, like now, it feels like these companies are going to get like this, this motivation to be like, no, we can just kind of release and Elden Ring is an is a complete game, like, don't get me wrong, like shadow of the earth tree is is an expansion, like it's essentially like a new map, new things to do, but it's still out of the ring at the end of the day. You know what I mean. Like that's, that's kind of the wild thing about it. And I think it's also nominated for RPG of the Year, which is fine, it's an expansion, but for it to be nominated for Game of the Year is just a weird thing, because it's not. You can't play Shadow of the Earth Tree without Elden Ring. You know what I mean? It doesn't stand on its own, and I think that's. It's just a weird thing, and I'd be very interested to see what happens.
Speaker 1:Do they just give it to astrobot and call it a year and just try to regroup for 2025?
Speaker 2:I mean it's possible. I just the astrobot thing is interesting because it's it. It feels like it's a almost like a playstation kind of like. You know, not propaganda, but like it's a playstation inspired thing. So I just I don't know if they would give game of the year to something that's so closely tied to one company. Sure, um, even though, like final fantasy, 7 rebirth obviously only launched on playstation 5, but it's not really like associated with sony in that way. Yeah, that like astrobot is like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a direct, it's a sony thing. Like when you buy your ps5, you get astro's playroom on the system remember when, when you got that notification and you were like skip, let me play the games that I want. Nope, I played it. I did play Astro's Playroom and I really liked it Because I you know, it was just Well now, because I didn't know what it was, I was like get this out of my face. This is a brand new place.
Speaker 2:And now I'm just keen to see what happens next week, because I think it's going to say a lot about how people feel about games going forward. And before we talk about Gladiator, I just want to talk about Superman and Lois really quick. We'll probably talk about the show in full next week, I would imagine, yep, because we only really talked about the first season on the podcast. So we'll talk about the final season. We'll talk about, you know, we'll talk about the show and, and you know, tyler hecklund's kind of place in the pantheon of supermen, yeah, um. And then I mean, maybe we will. You know, I'm forecasting a little bit. Maybe a week after we'll just do like an Arrowverse, cwverse episode.
Speaker 1:I'd be down for that.
Speaker 2:This is it Superman and Lois officially ends the network TV DC TV presence. That started, funny enough, with Smallville what year was that?
Speaker 1:2001 or 2003? I think it was 2001, if I'm not mistaken it started.
Speaker 2:I think you're right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it lasted until 2010,. Maybe 2011. 2001, yep, and then it ended in 2010,. 2011? Yeah. And then Arrow started in 2011,.
Speaker 2:And then the rest is history, yeah started in 2011 and then the rest is history. Yeah, um, I mean Superman and Lois. Just this from the first episode, just this just surprise that so much care and attention and just incredible writing performances.
Speaker 1:You know filming cinematography that you don't get no on network tv and I mean, on top of that too, I think there was a level of to your point, there's a level of care that goes into it. I think there was also like an unspoken agreement and understanding understanding that you know superman deserves that and I think the creator said we're not gonna take from what the cw does, because we love the CW, let's not get that twisted. But we know, I have to all say is we know, we know we understand Superman and Lois did not do that. They said from. I think they knew from the start like hey, we want to take this vehemently seriously from top to bottom, but it's the same. It's funny.
Speaker 1:I was just having this conversation. I was talking about the holdovers from last year and it was this ideology that in movies, movies aren't tender anymore. They're not tender. Superman and Lois is a tender show. That show has so many great lessons in it it feels classic for some odd reason. There's no better way for me to explain it. There's this classic overlay to it. It's just a really good family drama and it has a core. When a show has a core and you can play on that core, you can challenge that core, you can question that core and then you can reaffirm that core. That's how you do that. That's a really good piece to kind of have be your backbone, and they did it so incredibly well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just a show that I think just understands superman at the end of the day, yep to the point where comic writers were coming out of the woodwork and saying, no, this they get it like.
Speaker 2:These are some of the best superman stories that I've, you know, we've seen in live action yeah, and, just to you know, being able to seamlessly pick and choose, you know, either famous superman stories or famous superman characters. Um, we've talked endlessly about the john henry irons reveal, um, in the first season, right, when you're like wait, they're just doing steel, like right. Um, the introduction of bizarro in season two um, yeah, and and how that you know, I know you're kind of working your way through it, um, so I don't want to talk too much about the bizarro stuff because it it bleeds into later seasons. Um, as far as how they morph that into a different story, which was super cool, down to all the Lex Luthor stuff in the final season, with Michael Kudlitz who put up just an insane amount of transformation throughout the end of season three into all of season four.
Speaker 2:Um, and I know like people were concerned about, you know, the show, the final season, getting reduced number of episodes, um, reduced number of, you know, reduced budget, right, um, you know kind of made people a little nervous about, like, are they just gonna mail this one in? Um, and no, you know, I think this final season was probably the most intimate of the four seasons and I think kind of, maybe in a weird way, like the reduced budget helped that sure they were kind of like went back, you know, not went back to their roots, but they really honed in on the the character aspect of the show and kind of left.
Speaker 2:You know there's plenty of supermanning to be had in the final season but I feel like they really brought it back to the intimacy of, like the family and the performances and the characters and I think that really boosted it. I mean, I've seen more people talk about superman lois in this final season than I have in the last you know handful of years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen people like you know, youtubers, like people with different accounts. They'll go on and they'll be like just started this cw show. Obviously we know that this is going to go, and then they watch.
Speaker 2:They're like wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Like this is actually, and at the end of the day, regardless of budget regard, if you know how to storytell well, and you know how to get me to care, or get us to care, about character as well too, that's that's. It's not overtly complicated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, and I think you know, now this final season is over, um, when we look back on it, I think and we'll talk about this next week obviously Tyler Hoechlin's kind of place in the pantheon of of Superman and and not just Superman but comic book adaptations, I think I think he's, I think he's worked his way in there, um, in terms of, like that, that rarefied air of of comic book castings, I think I think he's just done an outstanding job. Yeah, um, so we'll talk, we'll talk about superman and lois next week, because, boy, there's a lot to talk about. Um, but now we got to talk about gladiator out, um, but now we got to talk about gladiator.
Speaker 1:Ha ha denzel. They said he's like I'm not doing an accent. Yeah, I'm from.
Speaker 2:I'm from the bronx, rome I saw someone say that this is a prequel to training day it basically is that's his.
Speaker 1:actually he did the same thing. You gonna do this to me. Lucius, all y'all Romans playing basketball, y'all falling into the Coliseum.
Speaker 2:So Gladiator 2, obviously the sequel to the 2000 Best Picture nominee, Gladiator that starred Russell, russell Crowe, directed by Ridley Scott. One of the greatest action movies of all time, one of the greatest historical dramas of all time.
Speaker 1:One of the greatest lead performances of all time, yes, so how do you follow that up? You do Gladiator again. You do Gladiator 2, but Denzel's in this one. This time I can just rip off my initial thoughts because I know, like reception wise, this movie, like I remember, the initial punch was like this is one of the best movies of the year. And then people started rolling in. They were like yeah, we don't know. We don't know if that's true. We don't think that's true. That was very weird. Like the I I remember the initial punch was like no, this movie is one of the best movies of this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then it's yeah, the reception's been mixed to good I think, yeah, mixed to good is the best way to put it. Yep, it's got a 71% among critics on Rotten Tomatoes, 83% among audiences, which is funny, because if you look at the Gladiator one rotten tomato store score, it's similar.
Speaker 1:I think the audience score is higher, but the but the critic score is very similar. I'm pretty sure it's yeah, um, yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the first one is similar critic score. So you can take that how that is. And I mean that's a film that went on to win russell crowe that oscar from 2000.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so gladiator original recipe gladiator has an 80 percent right among critics, so it's lower it's higher it's higher oh sorry on uh critics oh, critics okay, yeah critics is an 80 percent, for gladiator one 71 percent oh, 71 okay gotcha, which is like I said.
Speaker 1:It's like mixed to good um I feel like the only argument I'll always make for that is interstellar is at a 71 on rotten tomato, so I will use that until I'm blue in the face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, I think critically, I think what a lot of people kind of have a problem with not have a problem with, but like the kind of what knocks it a little bit, is like it's just Gladiator again, sure it's just Gladiator again.
Speaker 1:There's monkeys in this one, there's monkeys in this one. There in this one, there's monkeys in this one. The editing is a little interesting and guys Ridley Scott just turned 87 yesterday Cut him a bit of a break and he wants to make a third one. He just said a couple days ago that a third one is already in the works, so give him a little break.
Speaker 2:And I mean I think what made the first I mean, like you said, what makes the first one elevated to kind of like that pantheon status in terms of movies, is the Russell Crowe performance, and Paul Mescal is good in this movie, but he doesn't get there as far as the Russell Crowe stuff.
Speaker 1:So I'll think about it this way Nobody on planet Earth could get to that Russell Crowe part for what he was pulling off in that movie. And that's how I want to start with, because I am going to now I'm going to get into my opinion. I think that Paul Mescal performance was nothing short of incredible. I know a lot of people and again, you know, I think people are were iffy on it. It's because he's not Russell Crowe. I think that's the immediate knee jerk reaction and it's subconscious, subconscious, like we talk about the way we think. We're basically film psychologists at that point for like thinking, how, like, why audiences think the way that they think, and like masses and like nostalgia bait, all those things. Like he's just not russell crowe, so, and he gets he gets.
Speaker 2:russell crowe didn't have denzel in his movie right, casting this right enormous acting shadow over him where you know, you know, obviously, um, joaquin Phoenix is incredible in the first Gladiators, but they're more like 1A, 1b. They bounce off of each other whereas, like Mezcal to his, you know, in his defense, he gets dwarfed by Denzel whenever they're kind of together and it's not even Paul's fault.
Speaker 1:No, and I want to get into this too. I thought his performance was nothing less than incredible, in my opinion. I thought that was he was good. Yeah, I thought he was great. I mean, he had this.
Speaker 1:The one thing that I said walking out of the theater is that he had this idea in his head is I'm not Russell Crowe as the gladiator, I'm Paul Mescal crow as the gladiator. I'm paul mescal as the gladiator. That was the number one thing that I think he made the correct choice on is like I do not need to be um, we'll save the, we'll save spoilers for a moment, but I do not. I do not need to be the gladiator. Like I don't, I need to be my gladiator. I do not need to be his gladiator.
Speaker 1:He's a little bit more. He's a little bit more charismatic than he is. He's a little bit more like he's a little he's softer. Yeah, he's a little bit of like a softer, but like there's like a trust. That it's so. I thought about this, because they're both great leaders essentially is what they develop into.
Speaker 1:Or crussell crowe needs to rebrand his leadership versus, you know, paul mescal's character, which will get into his name in a second. Yeah, um, he needs to kind of find that in himself. Um, um, he had it in the opening scene. He was, he was a, he was a leader, but he was a different type of leader. So they both needed to kind of rebrand. And again, to your point, this is just gladiator again, but his top gun one, not top gun two again, like all these movies are, they're the same, um, so I just thought his performance was great.
Speaker 1:I think, like I I said, he's a little bit more, he's a little bit softer, but there's like a trust that comes with it. In my opinion, like he is somebody that, like you, immediately want to root for because, you know, tragedy befalls him as well too. Um, again, which is just like gladiator one. But yeah, there's just, there's something that's like endearing about his gladiator, about like the way that he rises, um, physically he's, I mean he is, he can fight, and if you want to talk about something that will, you know, ruffle all the feathers right now.
Speaker 1:I have no problem saying this. I think the hand-to-hand combat in this movie doesn't even isn't even close to, or I mean the other way around. I don't even think the hand-to-hand combat. It is nothing short of incredible. The first one is rugged on purpose and if. But this one, like it, kind of balances both like the modern action you're john wicks, you're but it still has that rugged nature to how fighting should have been done. Like it is bloody, it's like it's gruesome, yeah, it's tough, but it still has a.
Speaker 2:It has a the slightest fine finish to it, which I think is nice I like it's fun, like I like the like the kind of really like intimate fight sequences, and there's a couple of them the last one I'm not as sure, sure, um, because you have to ask.
Speaker 1:The only thing I didn't love about that last one is you, I, you, you had in your head you probably had to ask some questions about, about what we'll get to in a second. You're getting like in your head, you're like paul, the whole movie was him, like I mean, he was anybody and everybody. And now he's struggling a little bit. I said wait a minute. Yeah, for an older man.
Speaker 2:There's two really good ones, oh there's. And there's two really intimate, really good ones. There's one that takes place at a party. That one was so good, that's a good one, I really love that one. And then there's one later on involving Paul Mescal and Pedro Pascal. Oh yeah, and we're going to talk about Pedro Pascal too, because I think there's a version of this movie where he's the main character, sure, and I think that movie is also really really good. So, yeah, I mean, I think. All in all, I think this if we're going to talk about where this ranks in terms of, like, legacy sequels, I think it's not Top Gun Maverick, no, it's kind of.
Speaker 1:It's probably somewhere in around, probably above, like Force Awakens, sure sure I can probably, you know spectrum put it in between those two, like if there's a middle point in between those two. I think that's where that fits Like this movie in my opinion it misses the best picture by just like a smidge. And like. This is where like enjoyment versus like reviewing comes into play, because, like I'm not, I still have foresight enough to understand that this movie's not perfect, but I personally really enjoyed this movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really, I really enjoyed this movie. Yeah, I really liked it a lot. Um, and it was just like a, you know, well-performed yes. There's just that just some things that, like I, you know, the CGI gets a little wonky, especially when you get to that first bit with the, with the baboons, yeah, and I'm like, do we need the baboon?
Speaker 1:bit right, because the I mean what you could have done is you could have put people against them too. You could have actual.
Speaker 2:I think we needed more I think we needed more of that. I think we need more human, human on human, human on human stuff, right, um, like cut the monkeys out of it, cut the sharks out of it, yeah, and I mean just court doing the court's film corner.
Speaker 1:This movie is chopped a bit. It is definitely I know I think they talked about Ridley was like he just said throw as many cameras up as you can and just pick and choose which going into an edit. That's a tough thing to add. And especially, what you're doing essentially, too, is you're chopping performances on top of that too. So obviously Denzel can navigate through that.
Speaker 1:Paul Mescal as the main character of this movie because I mean, you're talking about somebody that's already been nominated for an oscar before he's 30 years old, like he already has an oscar nomination under his belt, like that, that wasn't somebody that was just plucked off the street, that this that's an up-and-comer. Like yes, he's, like he's still getting his footing, but I mean, imagine getting your footing and you have an oscar nomination under you, like that's pretty dang good. And the things that even denzel said about him like no it bridley said about him like no, this guy is, this guy is great. Like I still really like that performance. It's just again, it's like this isn't your father's gladiator is the best way I can say that. Like this is a little bit of a different type of type of understanding of it too yeah, and I mean I guess we'll talk about the ending in a second.
Speaker 2:Like the ending doesn't do that character any favors when he does the, so when he has his like suit up sequence, sure, and I'm like okay, like it's a little derivative.
Speaker 1:Right, I was bought more into the speech he gave because I think, well, yeah, the speech he gave itself was great. The suit up was very like again. Like yeah, this is the. This is the risk you run with legacy sequels. This is the risk you run like, how do you, how do you navigate? Like and I talked to you about it when we were leaving the theater like I hate when legacy sequels try to play too coy and they try to do it to the point where it's like I'm not going to give you anything. Like no, we know, this is the sequel. Like it's okay, you can give us stuff, but like I think it went from it playing itself very coy to giving us everything very abruptly, like everything from gladiator one very abruptly yeah, I think they we'll talk about it um any other performances you?
Speaker 1:kind of want to highlight. I mean other than pedro pascal, I mean um, connie nielsen is still, is still great that she was good, yeah, that that's still Connie Nielsen at the end of the day as well too. But yeah, that Pedro Pascal performance, and I mean that's just again. You put together an all-star cast of actors to be in this film.
Speaker 2:He's one of the best, and I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for his physical acting. Oh my god, yeah, it reminds me. Seeing him in this reminded me a lot of the stuff he did in Game of.
Speaker 1:Thrones. He has this pomp and circumstance to himself. He has this physical mentality of being like. I think the best way to describe it is grace. There's a grace that he carries whenever he walks anywhere. It's grace and command and, much like Denzel Washington, it's just in a more tender way.
Speaker 2:I think is the best way to explain pedro pascal yeah, just and it's retroactively bothers me that he's like not doing a lot of the physical stuff for the mandalorian. Yeah, because I'm like he's such a good, he's really great physical actor.
Speaker 1:I think that's more of a protection piece, but that's again like. That's like heightened sense, awareness of like real world connotations that you shouldn't have when you're watching a movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's great. Let's talk spoilers. Yeah, let's talk spoilers.
Speaker 1:Denzel gets his hand cut off. That's the first spoiler you want to talk about? No? No, but he does. They Star Wars him. He gets his hand cut off.
Speaker 2:I mean, the big thing is lucius or hano, is maximus's son, yep, and marcus aurelius's grandson. Yeah, awesome, um, and that's the bit, the end bit. That I was like all right, we're kind of when he, when he goes full maximus cosplay, I think the sword would have been enough. I don't think he needed the armor and the dress and the sword and the shield I'm not as upset with it as you are.
Speaker 1:I think I'm actually.
Speaker 2:It would have been it it it just feels like like nobody, like nobody. It felt like nobody cared because like nobody, like nobody besides. Okay, because like that's a good point that I'll get into okay like who is, who is there? That's a good time to watch him walk out in that gear. Yep, that would have been like cared. You know what? What this movie? Both emperors were dead at that point.
Speaker 1:You just lit another spark in my head for something. I feel like Russell, if you were going to do this, the aura of Russell Crowe's gladiator needed to be much larger. It feels like this film. It doesn't forget. I think it's on purpose, but I feel like it kind of it has him almost as like just another gladiator that went through the arena, instead of, like you should have played it as he was the glad, like this was the one that people almost upended, roam over. Is this gladiator a? That would have helped the? Because the whole theme of this movie is the dream. Is the dream possible, um, marcus aurelius's dream like he's not just a crackpot old man, like, no, he was. He was serious and like you know, looking life past, like even he knew. Like this dream was possible. Like this dream is possible. So, yeah, um.
Speaker 1:So that's an interesting thought process to have as well too but again I mean gladiator, I mean comet says that to maximus and gladiator one, the general who became a slave, the slave who became a gladiator, the gladiator who defied an emperor, and they just his aura's gone, his aura's gone that's the bit, and I'm glad you said that, because now thinking about it, that's a very interesting take, because now when I think about it, that suit-up scene would have absolutely played if the aura of his father was like he is the gladiator that defied the emperor, like this and like we. And again, it should have been played. We still don't know who that is. Like we didn't, we never knew who that, but they would know who it is, but nobody else would know who that is. Maybe you also keep alive. One of the characters from the original, one of the gladiators from the original movie, is there to be like no, you like, you sound like him. What?
Speaker 2:was Jaman Honsu doing. Jaman Honsu couldn't come back for this movie Did he not die in the first one.
Speaker 1:He died in the first one, did he? Yeah, he died in the first one, I can't remember. Regardless, yeah, the aura of the original gladiator, of Russell Crowe's gladiator, could have propelled this movie, because that's essentially what you're banking off of for these legacy sequels. It's like you, like you have to take the presence of everything that happened and try to find an innovative way to play it. Now that you said that, that's a great point Of like. He just felt like especially the addition of the new Diamond Hanzo character for this movie Like he was a gladiator. He said like no, that gladiator needed to be the gladiator. Like that is the gladiator that defied an emperor. Like that suit-up scene would have meant more that defied an emperor. That suit-up scene would have meant more the reveal. They should have sprinkled the rumbling because then, once you get to the actual war, the war piece that's going on, that also would have bolstered that a bit.
Speaker 2:I think the movie did, the promotion of this movie did itself a disservice. I really think the movie could have had a big drama piece of is he Commodus' son or is he Maximus' son? Sure, but like we knew going into it that he was Maximus' son.
Speaker 1:They could have also done. It's funny, you talked about Force Awakens. They could have easily done a situation, too, where it was you know. They could have done a situation where it was just another man's son, that's it.
Speaker 2:Oh, like right, just just like I feel like people would have been mad about that. Um, yeah, I mean. And so, all right, we gotta talk about denzel now. Um, for a little bit, macronus is plot twist. He's the villain. Yeah, he's the real villain. Yeah, we know. I guess, before we talk about Deadzel, we gotta talk about Fred Hetchinger and Joseph Quinn as the DeCyphilis brothers, I'm gonna say something.
Speaker 1:You cut Fred Hetchinger how do you say his last name? You cut him out of the movie completely and you just have it be Joseph Quinn. Probably I think you can cut him out of the movie. You cut a little bit of movie. You probably give some of that back to. Funny enough. You give some of that back to Pedro Pascal, probably, and you give it back to the fact that, like cause all right. So to describe Pedro Pascal's character, his, his whole thing, it's nobility, like you think he's some monster that's, you know, like this new age monster that's perusing through Rome and being this war, but he's just a good guy. And again, it's like the it's the Eric Lentzcher thing. Like I'm just tired, he's taught I'm a soldier, like, but I'm a good man. I just am in service of Rome. But look what Rome, look what the Rome I'm in service of. This isn't the Rome I'm in service of in my head.
Speaker 2:He's very, he does have a lot of. It's funny like that general caseus has a lot of maximus. Yeah, he does in him. Yep, which is really interesting. Yeah, um, you know, right down to the point where he is plotting to literally overthrow the emperor emperors, right.
Speaker 1:So I think, and again I like the, the other guy that played the other emperor, but joseph quinn, like I think, and again this keeps making me feel better and better about joseph quinn as an actor not that I didn't before, but like joseph quinn is still great, like he's still, he's still really good. So I think you've spin this movie. You cut one of them out, you just have it be him like this, like conniving, little like. But again, you needed both of them to show like one of them had a little bit more sense, the other one, like purposely had like actual mental health issues, like he was not right in the head monkey and a monkey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like he made one of the monkeys part of the senate. All hail dondas, all hail dondas. But yes, denzel, I mean you, you're talking. This is one of his better performance and that's saying something. This is one of his better performances. I mean he has I think he has a birthright claim to that best actor domination and win. I. I don't think anybody's going to take that away from him this year. From what I'm thinking about, from all the films that came out this year, nobody's taking that from him. So it's a very different role for Denzel, funnily enough, even though he played Alonzo in training day, it's, yeah, he's, it's very.
Speaker 2:He's back to being conniving, backstabbing villain guy right, which is a great role for him.
Speaker 1:It's not one, obviously, that he dives into a ton and it's funny because, like, this is the. This is a thought process in like writing and like casting, like people don't understand how much goes into just straight casting. Like what pulls the bigger precedence? The character or the actor? Like which one pulls, because you can't be naive and not understand what actor you have right there. But obviously in your head as a writer, it's the character. But a lot of writers do say this where it's like I think of a person in my head when I'm writing roles, like there's a person in my head when I'm writing this role so this feels, this feels very much like that I'm trying to think of, like if another actor was playing the macronus role, but it's nearly as compelling and I just don't think and that's my, that's my point, because at the end of the day, I think denzel, just being presence alone, it did two things.
Speaker 1:One, it elevated everybody else's performance a little bit. And I'm talking you're talking pedro pascal like this is an award-winning actor. You're talking paul mescal this is an award-nominated actor. You're talking connie nielsen you're talking some absolute heavyweights.
Speaker 1:And den Denzel Washington just being on set of this movie immediately has to raise everybody's game a bit. Because that's like if Jack Nicholson were to step on set, if you know Leo were to step on set, like if Daniel Day-Lewis were to step on set, everybody immediately is going to be like I grew up watching this guy, like I need to be a little bit better because I grew up watching his films. And then the second point for it is the writing piece. For it it's like, do you? I guarantee you he was just like, do do what you got to do, like I'm going to give you the basis for your character, but like, do what you got to do. Other actors could have played the part, like this kind of like, you know, fluid, like, almost like, like you said, like this conniving weasel of a person that would do anything, but again, it was he's Littlefinger.
Speaker 2:If you've watched Game of Thrones. He's constantly stabbing people in the back.
Speaker 1:He's Littlefinger, with more physical dominance and fear to him.
Speaker 2:Which I didn't know that he had, until you get to the end of the movie.
Speaker 1:But again, that's the Denzel Washington part Of him. Just walking alone causes you a bit of fear, especially as the movie starts to chuck along. I I made a point when we were walking out of the theater too. One of my favorite things is his performance is like a train, but you know the train's still getting to the station, but it's still as sweet. You still understand. Like we know he's the villain of this movie. Come on, like you know, he's the villain of this because he's the only.
Speaker 2:he's the only antagonistic character that's capable of being a villain Exactly Like you.
Speaker 1:don't buy either, emperor, as menacing, as Commodus was in the first one and you immediately take away any fear that Acacius is any sort of villain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's like the first act, right, he gets back from Rome and he's like I'm going to overthrow the Emperor. You're like alright, you're a good guy.
Speaker 1:You know from the look, because you know from the look he gives and again, that's Pedro Pascal being a great actor. You know from the look he's not happy to be burning these bodies and to be conquering this isn't what he?
Speaker 2:signed up for. And then you get to the emperors and you're like, oh, these two are just morons, like you said, there's a little bit to the, to the get a character, to joseph quinn's character, where, like, he kind of sort of gets it, like he kind of knows what he's doing, and then the other one's a maniac, yeah, so like, and you kind of wonder where that's going to come into play. And it does like denza, like the thing about macronus is like the plan, when the plan, when he does the plan, it happens very quickly. He's like, hey, all right, here we go, it's time I'm making my move.
Speaker 1:And there's, there's there's definitely a lot of real world implications that ridley was pulling from as well too. Like the way that, like because there's just there's the scene that we kept joking about walking out of the theater is it's like the. The line that we're going to remember from this movie is like or one of the lines you're going to remember from this movie is when denzel's walking and he's just like we will give her. You know, we're going to give her a fair shot, because Connie Nielsen's character obviously gets exposed for trying to overthrow the emperor. So he's like we're going to give her a fair shot Immediately turns around and said, as soon as she gets out there, murder her immediately. And he's just like why would you do that? He's like that's going to upset the people that want her to be still be in power because she has the birthright claim. That will give rome right for the taking, and I will take rome, and that is politics yeah, it's um, it's, it's the.
Speaker 2:Again, I couldn't not think about little finger when I thought about especially like his plot. Macronus's plot is it's the little finger, like the little finger speech that he gives um, at the end of I think it's season two, they do the montage and he's speaking and he goes it's, it's the chaos is a ladder speech that little finger gives where he says chaos is in a pit, chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them and some are given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to their realm or the gods or love illusions. Only the ladder is real, the climb is all there is. That's macronus's point. Like, right, if I can. Just it's the joker thing like if I can instill a little bit of chaos, a little bit of disorder, I can just ascend right to the top that's exactly what happens, right because he, he, he's, he's the brains of the operation.
Speaker 1:Um, that's, that's manipulating lucius, he's manipulating the emperors what I would have played on a little bit more um, before I get into, we get into our final thoughts. What I would have played on a little bit more before I get into, we get into our final thoughts, but I would have played on a little bit more is the is his, I, his thought process in his head that he was sent to do this. I wish that was something that we would have tugged on a little more, that like that's his motivate, like his motivation, it was the only piece, and like you can put two and two together. But I think that was one thing where it was like I wanted him to. He should have kept at it like no, the god sent me. Today he just has that.
Speaker 1:It feels like a throwaway line, like they should have hammered that like keep at that. Like I was sent to do this, like I was sent to. I was sent to kill these emperors. I was sent to take rome for myself. I was sent to markus aurelius's side, originally to be his slave.
Speaker 2:I was sent to do all these things so I can take this for the gods yeah, because he feels like, ultimately, he feels like he couldn't and that's why he he I think he he really works really hard to get acacius out of the picture because I think he realizes he even thinks he can manipulate lucius. He doesn't feel like I feel like that no point. He ever feels like he can manipulate acacia and that's why he needs to get him dealt with. There's a.
Speaker 1:There's a version of this movie where acacia is like this anti-hero a little bit more. He might lean a little because he is. He's a good guy.
Speaker 1:There's that, there's no other way to shake it like he is just a good guy and maybe that's pedro pascal just being like such, like a good person and like a person that everybody loves, yeah, um, but it's the same thing, like there's a version where Paul Mescal kind of gets taken down a bit. You put Pedro Pascal into. They kind of flip a little bit, but you add to, you make sure. So it's like it's the two of them against Denzel versus. It's like Acacius is like his engine to get him, to give him his second act motivation, character speaking. Give me my second act motivation, character speaking. Give me my second act motivation to propel me into the third act, like I truthfully now know about the world. Now I can go like, instead of him being that character, they flip, but you have the two of them against against macronus which would have been cool, I think.
Speaker 2:I think this movie could have done a lot if they, if the acacius character, was a little more prominent, because he's really not in it that much. He's in it Like in the beginning, like he does a lot of standing around and he does a lot of fighting, yeah, and that's a testament to Pedro Pascal, cause he feels like he's in this movie for longer than he actually is.
Speaker 2:He does like the plotting with Lucilla, and then he's arrested and then he fights Paul Mescal and then he dies. Um, that's halfway through the movie. Yeah, and that fight. I loved that fight between them because it's the. It's the best version of the Batman vs Superman fight, if that makes sense, like these two characters are clearly there's a there's a large misunderstanding. Yeah, yeah, and one of them is.
Speaker 1:This is a better version because one of them is hell bent on it. But they stay hell bent on it until they finally learn. And it's not some save Martha, it's like an actual like, no, like I, like he tell, I'm going to give you everything you need to know right now, like I tried to save your life once, like you can kill me if you want. But look, look around. You Like just take one look and then Acacia surrenders, yep, and then Acacia surrenders and that was the piece I give up. I'm not going to fight you, I'm trying to tell you I want this gone as bad as you do. It's that anger piece too, because Denzel keeps at it for Lucius. It's the anger piece. It's like what's your motivation? It's anger. It is anger. But it's like what's the controlled anger? It's the dream. Now there, it is anger. But it's like what's the controlled anger? It's the dream. Like we can find.
Speaker 2:Now there's something we can actually work towards, because he never I mean because lucius never believed in the dream.
Speaker 1:No, you don't care for it until acacius kind of awakens it to and again it's supposed to be a broader thought process of like it wasn't. It wasn't going to be marcus aurelius, it wasn't going to be maximus, it was going to be lucius. That was the one that was to execute the stream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean you know again, like to your Russell Crowe point like no one's ever no one, paul Mescal or not, like no one was ever going to hit that, Like Russell Crowe hit a special hit, a special note.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I can argue that to the end of the day, Like you're talking about one of the greatest like lead performances in a film of all time.
Speaker 2:Like that is one of the single best performances you will ever find. Yeah, nothing lucius gets to is gonna be. My name is maximus decimus meridius. Yada, yada, yada, yada and I'll have my vengeance in this life for the next. Like no one was ever gonna get there. Like that is like one of the most incredible moments right in movies but boy does he?
Speaker 2:he tries his best and I think he succeeds a lot in this movie like I can't overstate how much I think that performance is still really good and then we get, and then we get the ending, which the ending is, is interesting in the sense that, you know, obviously denzel's plan doesn't, it doesn't go awry, but like it wasn't, as like I don't know if he thought it out quite as much as he, as he thought he did Well, so I again it's.
Speaker 1:It's kind of, you know, it's the outside thinking that you shouldn't have when you're watching a movie. It's like the dream itself comes into the movie way too late. The too late, the like. The idea of the dream comes way too late because it's like it's like the good. It goes classic good versus evil. Because it's the dream of rome versus like this is just another emperor that's gonna rule rome and be a bad person, like and he, you know, he overtakes him and he triumphs and he wins the day and there's no big fight. There you go. But like the dream came so late. And again, if you kept acasius in this movie all the way through that third act, they were the two that should have fought in that, in that movie, and they were the two that should have fought like it should have been pedro pascal versus denzel instead of instead of paul mescal versus denzel yeah, because the whole thing is acacius has his, his, his army, his loyal army of 5 000 men outside of of Rome, in another place.
Speaker 2:They're just waiting, waiting for the command from Acacius to come, acacius dies. And then he gets the ring. He gives Lucius Maximus' ring that was originally Marcus Aurelius' ring, yada, yada, take this ring to my army, they'll know you're him, basically. And then Denzel has his, has the Emperor's army, the Praetorian Guards, and all that led by, led by Game of Thrones alum Roy McLean yep, the Hound. And I was like, is that the Hound?
Speaker 1:yep and it was, it was the Hound it was a unit fuck the King.
Speaker 2:That's what he said. That's what he said. That's what he did at the end of the movie. So Macrinus leaves after the Coliseum. Bit goes awry. Lucilla dies. Macrinus great with a bow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he is. He's pretty good. Didn't know that. Get that guy in the Avengers right now.
Speaker 2:Didn't know Macrinus had that in him, but he's great with a bow. Also great with a sword.
Speaker 1:Well, again, and that's the final piece I'll leave with, is one of the things I wish they did with that, um, with the macronus character is I wanted to know a little bit more, because he is capable, physically obvious, obviously psychologically and mentally is capable, but physically like, that's a truly dominating, like villain character to have. I wish we would have played into like his slave time with marcus aurelius a little bit more, because that's again his motivation. I wanted that driving piece but to be like like I, like I'm justifying my enslavement.
Speaker 2:I justified all these things because the gods needed to put me through this to make sure I'm ready for this moment and I wish they would have tugged on that string a little bit earlier, instead of saving it as like this third act, aha it was never an aha. We know like we we knew when he was like do you recognize your father's mark?
Speaker 1:and I'm like all right right, like yeah, like obviously this is personal for you, but you're also a bad person, right, like you should like.
Speaker 2:I wish they would have like started the relationship of him and mescal being like I used to be marcus aurelius's slave and now I'm trying to like make a better room and and then on his part, his daughter, my mother, set me away, he is a bad person.
Speaker 1:And then Acacius' character is like no, no, no, you're wrong. And then they swap. They swap the villain roles immediately.
Speaker 2:If that reveal would have happened in the beginning of the movie, it would have gotten you on Macrinus' side a little bit. Oh, like you know. He a little bit like oh, like you know, he's kind of like this self. You know, he's a self-made man, essentially, instead of like saving it for the third act, where he's like, aha, I'm a slave and you're like, yeah, but we already know you're a bad guy, right, it's like your, your, your backstory doesn't really land for me.
Speaker 1:Like it's like you've already done these awful things yeah, and imagine if that was a different actor in that role, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Denzel leaves, magnus leaves the city with his army, they're going to meet Acacius' army on the field of battle. And then, in classic Roman fashion, it's no, we're just going to fight, yeah, and the armies are just going to watch. And then whoever wins, and the armies are just going to be like all right, all right. Right, all right, we surrender because one guy fell, we surrender. Um, yeah, got his arm chopped off. Yep, um, and that was it. And then they're like what do we do now, lucius? And he's like same thing we do every day. Binky boy, right, try to rebuild the room yep, and that's the gladiator of two.
Speaker 1:So what happens? What happens to rome now? Well, I guess they start to like.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess lucius becomes king, but he did well, or does he like absolute that and just make? Gives it back to the senate?
Speaker 1:no, he does like a. He does a black panther 2 situation where it's like let somebody democracy thing? No, I don't. So maybe that's what three is going to be about. Three is going to be a little bit more political and it's like the senate still is bad, like there's still bad people in the Senate. The monkey's still there. The monkey yeah, the monkeys are still there.
Speaker 1:The monkey's still running the Senate. Yeah, the monkey is running the Senate. The monkey, funny enough, leads them to the most prosperous Rome they've ever seen. Like Rome's, just like a tight-oiled ship. It's a utopia. It's a utopia Because Dondas left it. All hail King D, all hail king dondas. What if I? What a fun character. Yeah, what a fun character. Okay, yeah, like I said, I I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, me too. I just I could. I can't help it. I'm a sucker for the first one. I'm a sucker for these legacy sequels. Um, I understand that there's issues and problems and things, but this is one of those. Like, if I were to give an official rating, you, I could probably go into like the, the low sevens, like seven point something. It's good.
Speaker 2:It's a good fun time.
Speaker 1:It's still an action movie. It still has its bits, it still has its triumphant moments. It's still got all the things.
Speaker 2:Poor, went out for Lucius' wife. Yeah, we never got to know her. Yeah, she dies in the first.
Speaker 1:She was plot motivation.
Speaker 2:She, she was plot motivation. She was fridged yeah, she was fridged, rip. They're like I love you, lucius. Yeah, I was like, don't say it, you're going to die immediately. I love you too, wife. And then she gets impaled by an arrow and she falls in the water. I do like the parallel of Maximus's dream where he's walking through the wheat field and Maximus' dream is like I want to die. Lucius' dream.
Speaker 1:Lucius' dream. Yeah, it's like, well, he wants to be with his wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wants to cross the river sticks oh also funny enough.
Speaker 1:Thank you for not killing him too at the end, because that would have been way too easy. Yeah yeah, thank you for not killing lucius. So many other of these legacy sequels would have just killed him. Imagine he just falls down like max. Oh, he just dies, no wounds or anything, it's just like the padme thing, for reasons we do not know, don't bring me back to that.
Speaker 2:It's an all-time hilarious what happened there.
Speaker 1:I don't know, man, and that's the gladiator too. We're losing her. Huh, we're losing him. We're losing him to the dream sequence.
Speaker 2:I do like that bit, though, at the end, where he says speak to me father. Yeah, talk to me goose, talk to me dad, talk to me Maximus.
Speaker 1:My name is Maximus Desmus no, don't do the whole monologue, don't do dad no we don't have time for a whole monologue. Dad, we don't need the whole monologue. I gotta, I gotta give my own speech. Um, I like the animated bit in the beginning yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 2:That was cool as heck I did like that? That was pretty dang cool the little animated gladiator recap that definitely was cool. I definitely they ended the movie on maximus walking through the wheat field again still hit.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, still hits still hits. He's still walking through that, we feel and that's the aura of russell crowe you decided to not put in this movie. You idiots. God, the coolest guy ever he's the coolest guy ever he's the second coolest guy ever.
Speaker 2:because denzel is the coolest guy ever, I did like the RPG-ness of the ending where, like you know how, like in an Assassin's Creed game, like the master set of armor is like hidden behind, like all the unlockables, right, and he finally got it. He got Maximus' armor at the end. He got all the skill upgrades. He got like maxed out armor, maxed out sword. He's like I'm him now. Wait, wait, a minute. I really like this movie. Though it's fun, I don't know what it is, man.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed the performances. It's cool. It's a good action movie. It ends the year.
Speaker 2:I like that they reused the In this Life or the Next line when he was talking to Macrinus, when he line when he was talking to macronus when he says I will never be an instrument in this life, or the next direct call back to the I will have my vengeance in this life for the next. It's the best cinema. It's good stuff, gladi. I like they put the two, the two eyes, in the middle of the movie gladiator fan for stick.
Speaker 1:You've met your match.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I thought this. I'm trying to think if there's anything else we didn't. David, david Jacoby came back. Yeah, they killed it.
Speaker 1:They killed him. They murdered him. He was a boy, he was a child. They killed 86 year old Derek Jacoby. He was still a kid. How dare you? That was wild. Cut his throat.
Speaker 2:That was insane. That's it, man, I think that's it.
Speaker 1:This cast is not that big, no, no, it's nothing insane. I like the new doctor character. Yeah, he was cool.
Speaker 2:He was cool. He was cool. I liked the tribal chieftain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I repeated him too.
Speaker 2:Man, that was like yeah, he just Again another guy.
Speaker 1:That was just like let the bad ones kill me. I've done my part. I'm not the main character in this movie.
Speaker 2:I need to die. I'm the motivation character from the first act?
Speaker 1:is he just Thor? Like everybody he loves, gets killed doesn't he say that?
Speaker 2:doesn't he literally say that in the movie, where he's like everyone, everyone dies, everyone dies. Oh yeah, I've become well versed in losing the things I love dang true the things I love dang.
Speaker 1:True, my bad, all right, man, that's it. That's it. That's gladiator, gladiator man it was fun.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Same um read me some socials man. Where can, where can the people find us?
Speaker 2:um, you can find us on twitter at project inf underscore pod. You can follow us on facebook. You follow us on tiktok tiktok project infinite pod on t. You can follow us on TikTok TikTok Project Infinite Pod, on TikTok Project Infinite Podcast on YouTube. You can follow us on Instagram At the Project Infinite Pod. And next week, like I said, superman and Lois, we're going to do a series finale kind of recap, just overall thoughts on what this show has done, because I think it's really outstanding. Um, but the show was able to do with the Superman character. Um, loads of loads of time will be dedicated to Elizabeth Tulloch and and Tyler Hoechlin as the uh, superman and Lois of truly like the 2020s yeah, you know, the first half of the like the late 2010s and the early 2020s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know the first half of the like the late 2010s and the early 2020s. They were the late, late 2010s. In the early 2020s that was Superman, so, and he did a great job. So can't wait to see him, Can't wait to, can't wait to talk about it, Can't wait to finish the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and then after we'll do like an arrow verse, cw verse, kind of yep, and we'll have a superman trailer by that time as well too, so yeah, yep, all right, um, that's it, that's gladiator careful, real careful this week, man, I wasn't gonna say macanus um the general acacia said the podcast yes yes, that might be my favorite one so far that's pretty good. Anytime I get a pedro pascal one, that's good. God he's good, yeah, he's just.
Speaker 2:It's insane ah, he's so good. I can't wait. I can't wait for faith. That just made me fan excited for fantastic four, like seeing him seeing joseph quinn, I'm sorry there's some actors in this.
Speaker 1:He's gonna. He's gonna kill it as as breed.
Speaker 2:I just have a feeling he's just got the thing I like how it's like people were like pedro pascal, yay, and then like he got cast and they're like, eh, but then like people are starting to remember like, no, he could act actually bleak trailer and he's just like family dinners every sunday.
Speaker 1:This is what keeps family and I said wait, is that reed? Are you reed richards from the 1960s comic books hopefully he doesn doesn't hit his wife. Come on, man, get us out of here. We gotta go, we gotta go, man I'm just saying Until then, until then we will.
Speaker 2:We'll see you next week. Goodbye Peace.
