The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
146 - Exploring Nostalgia and New Beginnings: Fantastic Four, Jurassic World Rebirth, and Captain America's Next Chapter
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The Fantastic Four trailer has landed, and it's stirring up feelings of nostalgia and new beginnings. We share our thoughts on its retro-futurism vibe and speculate on how it might shape the superhero landscape. Meanwhile, the Jurassic World: Rebirth trailer caught us off guard, and we're dissecting its potential impact on the franchise. We also take a moment to reflect on the Neil Gaiman controversy and how it affects our love for The Sandman series. But the spotlight truly shines on Captain America: Brave New World, as we celebrate Sam Wilson's journey and his rightful place in the MCU. The episode explores the transformative journey of Sam Wilson as he evolves from the Falcon into Captain America. We discuss his character arc, the implications of becoming Captain America, the upcoming "Captain America: Brave New World," and the impact of representation in the MCU.
0:00 Intro
03:31 A Slew of Castings For The Odyssey
07:00 Live Action Gundam Movie in Devleopment
09:37 The Sandman Cancelled After Season 2/Neil Gaiman
13:14 Jurassic World Rebirth Trailer
20:00 Fantastic 4: First Steps Trailer!!
41:13 Fantastic 4 Theories & Predictions!
01:00:00 Sam Wilson in the MCU
01:31:22 Previewing Captain America: Brave New World
02:00:20 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: Either Post Super Bowl OR Captain America: Brave New World Review
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Speaker 2:Podcast. Go tell your friends, it's the Infinite Podcast. My journey never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Rob and Kork the Cube. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom, from movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We've got you covered. I'm Rob. I'm here, as always with Court, and Court thought we were going to be talking about the Fantastic Four next week because we thought we were getting it during the Super Bowl and we probably still will yeah, we'll get something.
Speaker 1:We'll get a little something.
Speaker 2:But we got the fantastic four trailer this week right um, with a big, um, big thing, where they were just like hey, I see what you did there they're like watch out, the trailer's coming tomorrow at 7 am.
Speaker 2:There's gonna be a big thing and everyone's gonna be there and they're gonna do a big, big button push and then they're gonna show the trailer and it's it feels like a big deal and it, and it is a big deal there, and they're going to do a big button push and then they're going to show the trailer and it feels like a big deal. And it is a big deal because, as we're going to talk about in a little bit, the trailer was really, really impressive. It was incredible.
Speaker 1:It was outstanding, not only the sell of this trailer but the sell of these characters, and it doesn't even feel like it's a sell. It feels like they are family. It feels like you know the cell of these characters and it doesn't even feel like it's a cell. It feels like they are family, it feels like you know them. There's somebody made a good point If there's there's this nostalgic overlay over this, of like this feels correct and familiar.
Speaker 2:It's everything that that has been kind of rumored and has been, you know not, maybe not promised, maybe, maybe maybe someone promised it somewhere that I that I can't recall. But, um, this idea that this movie was going to be truly different from from any other offering in the mcu, um, to this point, um, and I think the trailer has delivered on that promise, um, and we also got a jurassic rebirth, uh, rebirth that was called yes yeah, I got a final fantasy on the brain.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, jurassic world rebirth trailer that we also thought we were going to get during the Super Bowl, but these, you know, just getting ahead of it and our main topic of discussion this week, obviously Captain America Brave New World is coming out next week. So we're going to take a stroll and just kind of talk about Sam Wilson and the MCU and what kind of I don't want to say justifies this movie, because that sounds demeaning, but just kind of like you know, maybe people just don't realize kind of the arc that Sam has gone on and really how important he is to the greater kind of MCU and really what a great character he is, from his inception in Captain America, the Winter Soldier to now where he's starring in his own Captain America movie, which I think is kind of a unique arc for any of these MCU characters. We haven't really seen that Shuri comes to mind, but also Shuri was only in two movies before Black Panther 2. Sherb is only in two movies before Black Panther 2. So Sam has really, you know, as far as like a mantle passing type of deal, um, which we've done an episode on mantle passing before, but Sam is really the only one so far. That's kind of. We've seen him from Inception to where he was just a guy in the military, to being Falcon, to being Captain America, which I think is a really, really cool arc for him. So, um, we'll talk about sam and as we bleed into a new world, but first we do have some news, starting, of course, with odyssey casting.
Speaker 2:Um, I didn't. I was, I was skeptical that this was going to become like another bit, like another oppenheimer thing. Sure, um, and I guess it just is that every week we're gonna get, we're gonna get casting until this movie is made. Um, so we got a, a, a, a Pentagon of of castings over the last week. So we're, we're filling in those. You know, these are going to be obviously the, the actors you know big name, decent, named actors, um, that will probably be filling. You know, kind of like the the Jack Quaid role in Oppenheimer, where they're. You know, kind of like the the jack quaid role in oppenheimer, where they're you know, they're good names, that like you're like, oh, hey, that person, and then they'll be in the movie for maybe like a minute or two, um, and then keep it moving, um so what are the directors doing?
Speaker 2:it like that I know it's, it's, it's. I told you, when you know we talked about burn ball last week, like it just feels like nolan's gravitas, where, like you you know, elliot Page, for example, who got cast in this can can star in his own thing and but Nolan calls and you're like sure, I'll do two minutes.
Speaker 1:Of course. Of course, there's there's history there. Yeah, there's history, which is amazing.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so Elliot Page is, the is the first one. Hamish Patel.
Speaker 1:Yep as well, my favorite character from Tenet. He's not going to drive a 747 into a building, right? Why not Question mark? He does the same thing in this movie. The same exact thing.
Speaker 2:With a horse cart or a boat.
Speaker 1:A horse cart would be. No, the boat would be the funniest thing. That would be incredible. You're not going to. He said Odysseus says you're not going to.
Speaker 2:Why not John Leguizamo? Famed character actor John Leguizamo has been cast in this movie.
Speaker 1:That's my second favorite casting so far, because I just believe they just ran into each other on the street in LA and they're just like you wouldn't want to be in my movie, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like you wouldn't want to be in my movie, right? Yeah, it's like sure.
Speaker 1:Benny Safdie obviously is coming back. He's starting to really rack up regulars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, which is cool.
Speaker 1:When James Gunn does it, people have a problem and then the crocodile hunter, Steve Irwin. No no.
Speaker 2:Has been resurrected. He's back. He's going to wrangle the Sphinx. Oh boy, Look at this beauty here.
Speaker 1:She's going to be real gentle-like here.
Speaker 2:You think the Sphinx is vicious, but you just got to answer a riddle, odysseus, I'm kidding, it's not Steve Irwin, it's Bill Irwin who is the.
Speaker 1:Long-lost cousin of Steve Irwin no no, just kidding.
Speaker 2:no, no, just kidding um voiced um. What's the character in interstellar?
Speaker 2:uh tars, yes yes, so the voice of tars he should still play tars in this movie um, joining the long, long, long list of casting for the odyssey, obviously starring tom holland and many, many others. Um, so again, yeah, like I said, we're we're running this movie. I feel I I do enjoy this bit that we're doing. We did it with abenheimer. We're doing this because it also makes like before you know what the movie will be out. We're like remember when we did that bit with all the casting, and now the movie's here, um, so I think that's great. Um, and, as always, we're gonna find fewer and fewer things to say about this movie until we actually see some things from it other than just keeping this bit going as long as people keep getting cast. So, and then more news today that came out there is a live action Gundam movie happening.
Speaker 1:I don't even know how to even begin to think about this. You know what's insane? I watched Pacific Rim two days ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is Obviously this can work. It is being co-produced between Bandai, namco and Legendary, so that's pretty great, and the director is Jim Mickle who wrote and directed Sweet Tooth. Hmm, I mean, as Pacific Rim shows, I think this can work. Just big giant robots fighting each other, I think people are in. I think, having the co-production of Legendary, who obviously have experience in this realm with Godzilla vs Kong, of just big romps with giant creatures, um, I think it can be cool. Obviously, anime adaptations are hit or miss, um, but gundam is uniquely suited for a live action adaptation. Yeah, as opposed to, like you know, like a dragon ball, or I mean one piece pulled it off. One piece is on netflix is very popular, um, as a live action adaptation. So, um, just giving big giant robots fighting each other, and I think we'll have a fun time put ben mendelsohn in this for some reason, sure, yeah?
Speaker 2:I'd be in on that. Put a I don't know. I was gonna say, just put the people that are in pacific remember movie. Today we are canceling the chocolate. Idris Elba, what's his name in those? Stacker Pentecost yeah, stacker Pentecost, that's an all-timer. It's up there. One of these days we'll do an episode on just like all-time, just fictional character names in movies.
Speaker 1:General Quaritch is up there.
Speaker 2:Quaritch is up there, but man Stacker, Pentecost is just Apollo Creed's up there. Apollo Creed is definitely up there. That's iconic Black Agar-Boltagon.
Speaker 1:That's not a yeah, it's not a movie character. But yeah, what do you mean? He was in my favorite, the Multiverse of the Madnesses. Wanda, look over there. I wouldn't do that if I were. You Don't be rash, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think a Gundam live action movie can absolutely work, but it can also completely bomb. That's the fun thing about these anime adaptations it feels like you can't have a decent anime adaptation. You know what I mean. It's either great to good, like One Piece, or it's Dragon.
Speaker 1:Ball Evolution. Well, if I really want to make some points about no, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2:Or it's the Last Airbender that one hurt me personally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, speaking of things that are hurting us. Personally, the Sandman, yeah, man, I don't want to touch too much on the Neo game and stuff. It's horrifying. It is horrifying. You know someone, you know, I, I openly admit, on this podcast I admitted, you know I loved Gaiman's work.
Speaker 2:Um, the Sandman is one of my favorite stories of all time and the things that you know, it's been documented that he and his wife, most horrifyingly enough, have been, have been accused of, and a lot of this stuff has been confirmed as just horrifying and it completely checkers my view on a writer and an artist that I have had great respect and admiration for, and I just don't have that respect and admiration for him anymore. I just don't. So, coming off the back of that, and then I mean I think there is some legitimacy to the idea that they were just going to end this after two seasons anyway. Um, so the same man will be ending after two seasons. Um, basically, netflix basically said, like this show was always conceptualized, you know, around dream story and dream story will conclude in season two, and that's it. Um, you and Dream Story will conclude in season two and that's it.
Speaker 2:You know, it sucks because that first season of Sandman is so incredible and we, you know, unfortunately, we lauded the inclusion of Neil Gaiman in that process of putting together that first season and, like I said, just everything that has come out about him and his wife and the things that he's been involved in when it comes to, you know, the sex abuse and everything, just again, it just it, really, you know, not just stings on that kind of level but also just like as a person, just the victims of everything that that he's been accused of, is just it's, it's heartbreaking and and not heartbreaking for me, it's heartbreaking for the victims, you know, like you know, it's not one of those things where, like I was hurt by this, no, like it sucks for sure, but like I'm not hurt by this, Like I'm not physically or emotionally affected by this. You know, obviously the victims are who, you know, we need to rally around and defend and be there for and it just sucks that you know, unfortunately, this really, really brilliant piece of work that you know, the horrifying thing about it and everything that's happened with Neil Gaiman is he wrote to a lot of these things, you know, and was an outspoken kind of defender of the feminist movement and all that stuff and for him to turn around in his personal life and be nothing short of the monster that he's, the monsters that he's depicted in his works, is just really, really awful. I mean, I don't really I don't know what else to say. Um, I didn't really want to get into, like, the neil gaiman side of it. I just kind of wanted to talk about sandman ending, but just, it's impossible to ignore, it's impossible to not talk about um. So, yeah, I mean, you know, I, I, I hope that I can still watch this show without feeling any type of just ickiness about it. Um, cause I do, I did so enjoy that show and it's still one of my favorite stories, you know, irregardless of all the horrifying stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, I had no way, shape or form, wanted to make it seem like I'm endorsing Neil Gaiman by watching this. It's just, it's unfortunate, it's just really really unfortunate. Um, so watching this, it's just it's unfortunate, it's just really really unfortunate. Um, so that's that on sandman and all that stuff. Um, so try to, we show we soldier on um to jurassic world rebirth. So we got a trailer for the jurassic world continuation directed by gareth edwards. Um channel channel favorite gareth edwards, and I will say this trailer has the Gareth Edwards sauce to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's got the finish. I mean now you're playing in the realm where, like, because Gareth Edwards, obviously he's had some incredible actors under his belt, but I mean now you're now he's got Mahershala Ali, now he's got Scarlett Johansson. So I love the enhancement kind of his. His repertoire with all these great actors are really starting to come, come to fruition. Not that he hasn't worked with incredible actors yet, but I'm talking more like mainstream blockbuster as well too. So that that makes me happy as well. And I mean there's a finish to this movie that feels very Gareth Edwards, that's very true. So how do we feel about this plot? How do we feel? Um?
Speaker 2:I mean, how do we feel um? I mean it feels very jurassic worldy, like I don't really.
Speaker 1:It feels very by the numbers and I think that was by design to like in a weird way, I feel like the idea is like let gareth cook for himself, let the cast be the cast, like. The movie's positioning is also interesting because you're two weeks before superman, so like you only have this tight window to really get everything ramped up and going. So I think the simplicity is a good thing, like don't overtly make anything too, you know, controversial or too like nothing too insane. Just not necessarily by the books, because I wouldn't ever call gareth edwards by, or I would never call him by the books, I mean from godzilla, and he's already taken these franchises. Like I think about this all the time.
Speaker 1:I rewatched all the monster movies. So, starting with 2014, godzilla. If you look at the newest Godzilla Kong movie and you look at that Godzilla movie, you're like what happened? Like what happened to the art. So that, for Gareth Edwards, makes me very happy and very optimistic. That doesn't matter what he does. The creator obviously was a huge hit for the fact of the way that he shot that movie and for the source material as well too, and it got even more, you know, prominent as the last months came on too. But I just it's for me it's in gareth edwards.
Speaker 2:We trust, and I think the studios also know that too yep, and I think he can, because he did this with godzilla in 2014.
Speaker 1:He can restore the horror element, not only the horror element, but he can restore, like the there's a realism overlay that he has. He added on rogue one, he obviously added on the creator, but like he just has this like real world feel to the way that he makes movies, and I mean to your point, godzilla is the one where you're like, wow, this feels like an actual film, this doesn't feel like a Godzilla movie, this feels like a horror movie, this feels like the horror of nature type of movie.
Speaker 2:And he has a great feel for scale. Obviously it's one of his biggest strengths and he has a great feel for the looming you always talk about. It's not the bang, it's the anticipation of the bang, and he's mastered that, whether it's Godzilla Just look at these films that he's directed right. Godzilla 2014, obviously it's Godzilla Rogue One, it's the Death Star, it's the impending.
Speaker 1:It's the weight, it's the size of the Death Star.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the creator? It's Nomad. Yeah, we were just talking about that earlier, like it's one of the most it does. It doesn't speak, it's not a monster, it's just this looming thing in the sky that, when you see it, it done.
Speaker 1:I really love gareth edwards sound design too the way that he uses sound to his advantage, like you're talking about an advanced level filmmaker that has a lot of respect from a lot of people in hollywood as well too. So I'm glad to see maher shah lee back as well too. Yep, um, I think scarlett johansson is a very good choice, just to lead the movie as well too. Like I said, the point of where you're positioning this movie, like you're, once july 11th hits like it's, it's gonna be kind of over for the rest of the movie landscape until, like, the oscar season's roll around in october, like that's gonna be the true penance of this year.
Speaker 1:So to get your and I'm talking about this like, if this isn't jurassic world, you know what I mean like the jurassic franchise. So to sneak this movie not to sneak it, but to sneak this movie in july 2nd genius. Like, get this right before it's too late, but it's still fresh in the minds and people are like or you might get the people that are like I hate superhero movies, let's go see Jurassic, you know what I mean. Like you might still get some people in there.
Speaker 2:And Gareth Edwards has this ability. You know, and it feels like it felt like for a little bit, especially with the last one, that these Jurassic movies were veering into, that Kong vs Godzilla, fast and Furious, furious, like kind of romp type movies. And what makes the original jurassic park movie so successful is that thriller horror, you know thing, where, like, the dinosaurs aren't too overexposed and then suddenly the freaking velociraptor comes out of the shadows and that's what I feel like gareth ed is going to bring that Gareth Edwards sauce. You can feel it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. The latest Jurassic ones, like the Chris Pratt-led ones, were very action-heavy. Yep, dinosaurs fighting dinosaurs.
Speaker 1:It was a product of its time. Yeah, and guess what movie they were trying to chase a lot in there. Gareth Edwards' Godzilla had a lot of implications for a lot of things in Hollywood after that, whether people want to admit that or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you think he looks at Godzilla now and he's like what have I done?
Speaker 1:What happens to the game I love? He's allegorical Oppenheimer. Like what have I done Because in that 2014, Godzilla was in it for? Like what's the screen time five, four or five minutes. Yeah, total in like a two, two, ten, two, fifteen. And it's great, oh that I, I. One day we're gonna have to review that movie specifically, because that movie is an absolute gem. Yeah, it's a perfect example of like how to make me care about human characters that I shouldn't, because you made godzilla a force of nature yep, yep 100.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, I'm really. We talked for a while as soon as, as soon as as soon as it got announced that he was attached to this jurassic project. Um, we were both really, really excited because I, I guess I just I just didn't think, I don't know, I guess I didn't think he was gonna do like a big budget, like franchise movie again. Yeah, I just thought he was just kind of like gonna be doing off, doing his own stuff, or do you think?
Speaker 1:the studio went to him and well, yeah, I think so like hey, like we've seen what you've done with rogue one, like I think hollywood's clear like the people are clamoring for like more quote-unquote cinema and blockbusters and we're gonna talk about that in a little bit we want to return jurassic park to proper scary jurassic park um and scale and what's better at scale and and spectacle than you know, than the lord and savior himself, steven spielberg.
Speaker 2:So yes, I'm really, I'm really looking forward to it, um, so that's fun. It's a fun cute little jurassic jurassic world movie. But the cute little um, we, as we said up top, got a trailer for fantastic four first steps. Um, and wow, um, I just I this movie. This movie has the thing right, the thing that, like you watch, you know you watch, I'm from this is that movie. You know, kind of like Oppenheimer I'm not comparing the two, but from Inception to casting, it's checking all the boxes of something that's truly special. Is it going to win an Oscar? No, but is it something that can be special within the confines of the superhero genre? Yes, I think so. And, like I said, it's checking all the boxes from Inception, when were like we're marvel's the mcu, we're doing the fantastic four, we're setting it in the 60s, it's gonna be, I don't think. I don't think at the time we even knew it was going to be like a retrofuturism no not yet.
Speaker 2:I think. We just knew it was going to be in the 60s. We thought it might have taken place in the past. Um and john watts was associated with it.
Speaker 1:John Watts was going to direct it. They had the whole Marvel panel at the D 23. Like he was going to direct this movie and people thought first like okay, good, including myself.
Speaker 2:Like good, like he's got a good. You know, he's got a good handle on classic Spider-Man.
Speaker 1:He's got a good hand, he's got a good handle.
Speaker 2:He's already directed a trilogy with a legacy character Um, you know the mcu, they're gonna do the fantastic four justification, like they're gonna do it right. Um, and then, like it kind of went dark for a while and we were like what's going on with this fans? We didn't have a cast for the longest time um to the point.
Speaker 1:It had been like weeks of like every reporting outlets, like we have to cast, and we were like no, you don't. No, you don't just kidding?
Speaker 2:no, you don't. And then this is the point where Matt Shackman steps in. And then we find out it's taking place in the 60s, but it's going to be a retrofuturism 60s.
Speaker 1:And that's where you, that's where my wheels started turning and I'm like, oh, this could be really cool so at first I was like, okay, shackman's here, and then you start to think about what Shackman's done, right, yeah, game of Thrones.
Speaker 2:Which I just found this out Yep Succession. He directed one of my favorite episodes of Game of Thrones ever Succession.
Speaker 1:Game of Thrones, mad Men, mad Men Like Mad Men might be the most like. This might be a mixture, not a mixture of Mad Men and WandaVision, but you know he's got a handle. The best thing about saying this, that's a versatile filmmaker. If you look at the landscape, a couple of those things are not alike each other at all, absolutely at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then obviously he was the writer and director of WandaVision, which is, to this day, probably the most unique thing that Marvel's done, oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:Until probably this movie that's coming out and I don't even want to label it as unique. I want to label it as almost like this I love the take. The take is super special because it's the take. But what does Court always say? Court talks behind the scenes. It's the fact that they were. They tested the Panavision cameras, like they were. They. They said like, and then you get the thing at the bottom, like, presented by fantastic vision. I loved it. They. They did a whole launch as if they were doing a sixties. Like what Marvel movie is doing this? Like I've never seen a Marvel movie. This not only does it feel so separate, like you said it before, we had like. This feels like an actual film yeah, so he's attached to it.
Speaker 2:And then again to your point, like the casting thing, forever it was. We didn't know who the cast was. Then it was confirmed, like this was locked in.
Speaker 1:Well, we had the cinema cast, because there was a time where it was like, well, it's locked in. They got marta, robbie and adam driver and we were like, okay, that's good. Okay, I was, I was happy with that, I was very happy.
Speaker 2:I was like I, I you know it was getting reported by like reputable sources, and I it felt so crazy that, like I kind of didn't believe it though, but I was like, all right, I gotta I gotta see this which bugged you more?
Speaker 1:I have one that bugged me more about the two of them. It was adam driver that bugged me more. That I couldn't yeah, because I do think margot robbie would have done this yeah, I think she I think she probably would have she did the suicide squad well, the suicide squad was incredible.
Speaker 2:It was but she also did the first one, oh, shoot anywho. And then we got basically what turned out to be this cast with one adjustment. Yes, so it was Matt Smith, vanessa Kirby, eben Moss, bacharach and Joseph Quinn and everyone was like okay, I think the Joseph Quinn one was the one that people were like.
Speaker 1:Including myself. I take ownership and blame, including myself. I said it, I take ownership and blame including myself.
Speaker 2:I said it, I wasn't a fan, to your credit. Also, the one that you were most excited for was the Evan Moss back rock casting. Yes, um, and I think going into this, and then, and then, and then, and then. I remember specifically where we were. Yes, we were both at work. I think I came to you first and I said did you see the Fantastic Four thing? And you said no, and I said Pedro Pascal is Reed Richards.
Speaker 1:And I was behooved.
Speaker 2:I'm learning this and then that got the internet in a frenzy. He's too overexposed. He's too this. He's too that you know what else. He is A really good actor. I think that gets lost in all the stuff that he does. Let's rip too overexposed. He's too this. He's too that you know what else. He is a really good actor. I think that gets lost in all the stuff that he does let's rip into this then.
Speaker 1:Yes, just let's rip into this. I mean, I, I and too and I also said I wasn't I never not been sold on pedro pascal. It was him as reed richards that I questioned a bit. As soon as he opened his mouth in this trailer, I said, oh yeah, that's actually Reed Richards, but it's Reed Richards, as if he wasn't 19. Like, that's him, and you made an incredible point. He's hiding himself. That's not Reed, right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we segue. So we segue from all this backstory into the trailer itself. And it just opens with this Jetsons-type retro-futuristic 60s. The score.
Speaker 1:The score Michael Cicchino's score. The score is just, he's done it again?
Speaker 2:Do they just do the thing if?
Speaker 1:they do a spinoff from this. If they do a Johnny spinoff with Spider-Man, they have to let his son do the score. Is that how that works? Yeah?
Speaker 2:So we open up. We. Is that how that works? Yeah, um. So we open up, we get vanessa kirby a sue storm bringing people into the baxter building um, and then you get to your point and to my point, the pedro pascal reed richards of of. He's very george jetson, he's very william shatner from star trek, he's very proper and he's like we have dinner at seven every every sunday.
Speaker 1:He has the he. He's the only one that has the bit of the 60s. Yeah, dash to it.
Speaker 2:But to my point, every time you hear him speak in this trailer besides when he's talking to sue and you know in the in the middle of the trailer he's doing pr, essentially for the fantastic four, because again, another bit of brilliant writing in this story.
Speaker 1:They are already the fantastic four not only are they the fantastic, they are famous, they're famous. What really sells me on this, it's the coupling of that with like having this backdrop of like what happened on the I know what happened on the mission, but I'm sitting here like what happened on this mission. But it's insane that I'm tethered to this thing, like them up. I mean, when they talked about this movie, like the preliminary at Comic-Con, they talked about like hey, like we watched Apollo. Like the first thing we did was we all watched Apollo 13 together, we all watched it together. Like that was one of the big inspirations from this. You see it in the trailer. Like the found not the found footage, but like like the archival 1960s documentarian type of. You know, I have a theory as to why it looks like that and what they're trying to do, and I think it's your kids, marty, it's your kids. Um, I think matt shackman watched after sun and he took the whole inspiration to do it like this.
Speaker 2:But this is special and then, yeah, so we get, we get redoing the whole. We have dinner at 7 every Sunday, no matter what Yep, and then we get the introduction of Ben Grimm.
Speaker 1:We see him, they did not hide it, and that's when I knew they weren't playing games when they immediately showed him.
Speaker 2:They immediately showed him. Evan Boss Macarack already I feel is going to be the heart of this movie. I think he's going to be the much you know. You can ha-ha it all you want. The emotional core of that original Fantastic Four movie is Ben Grimm. Michael Chiklis is Ben Grimm. He has the most quote-unquote tragedy associated with him and it feels like they're going to lean into that. But we get just this incredibly charming scene with him cooking dinner with herbie and it's just ebon boss back rack at his best. Um, added a clove of garlic. That because it wasn't good, just because I wanted to add a little more zip, and I'm like, all right, um the ben the ben.
Speaker 2:Grim design, so phenomenal. I don't understand how people are unhappy with this design and I think I have a theory on why people are unhappy with it and I think it's because it looks too comic book accurate and it makes people unsettled. I think this thing design is uncanny, valley of levels of accurate and it makes people uneasy. He looks just like the thing, like he was ripped out of a comic book page Literally.
Speaker 2:Kirby's the thing. It's crazy Like that character in that movie does not look like he should be moving or doing things with real people. It's that good, and I think that just makes people very unsettled. Because it took me a second to settle into it.
Speaker 1:I think also I was surprised because I didn't know what to think. Going into this trailer, like what they were going to show, and that was this was one of the points that I told you before we hopped on that I really appreciated. I said, hey, they're going for it like this is the fantastic four. Like they're not, like they're not josh tranking it and be like we've got to hide things. No, no, no. Like even if it was an origin story and they had to. Like give me everything. Give me the robot. Give me the robot. Give me Ben Grimm in a big Fantastic Four sweater. Give me Johnny jumping off the ledge. Flame on immediately.
Speaker 2:Also, can we talk about that spot for a second Dog, the dust kicking up onto the camera?
Speaker 1:The lens flares Because they shot this with anamorphic lenses. They're making a movie. Yeah, that scene where Ben's walking in his comic-accurate trench coat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we get sad, bad Grim and the Ten.
Speaker 1:He looks like Bear Bryant.
Speaker 2:Except Raphael from the Ninja Turtles movie. Come on man, yeah, we got sad bad Grim and the Ten trench coat, which is another great shot of again public relations.
Speaker 1:Reeded richards, talking, you know, talking about this is the best pilot I know that's looking you and like I love how unapologetic like it is evan moss bachrock, like it's just him, it's just him being him, yeah, and then they cut.
Speaker 2:That's such an incredible casting, oh my god then they cut to sad Ben Grimm being like I'm ugly, I'm a rock, I'm a big ugly rock man. And then we just get various shots of things while Sue's doing a big voiceover. Invisible Woman looks great. They're doing, they're going the light reflecting route with her powers. It's the light that basically causes her invisibility. She doesn't just flame on, that basically causes her invisibility. She doesn't just flame on, flame off with the invisibility. Um, they actually have like a science to it which I think is going to be an important part of this movie. Like, I think the science bit is going to be important. You know we see reed doing a big drawing on a chalkboard. Yep, um, and I, I like I told you that's. That's the only shot in this trailer where you see the real Reed Richards and it's, coincidentally enough, where you don't see him speak.
Speaker 1:You see him twice, in my opinion. You see him there and you see him when he's holding Sue. That's the two times you see him when he's holding, like because he truthfully does love him. He just thinks he can outsmart the love and he's cold, and that was the thing thing. I hope they don't shy away from that and I think I don't think they're going to be. Neither I think they're gonna let them be like hey, I have to be this way and then, once they get there, like she's gonna be like I love you, but you're a jerk, like you are, you're cold and like yep, and that's why I think the vanessa kirby thing, like she's the tether, she's the like she, she's gonna be the tether.
Speaker 1:Yep, because he's reads the brains like Johnny's really the soul of this thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't see a ton of Joseph Quinn in this, but this is how I know we have the makings of a potentially special movie. The careful selection of when you see Johnny and what he's doing and the line he gives, just the high. But you get it. You get the character just in that moment. He's lounging, he's got the astronaut helmet on, sue walks in on him and he's like hi, and I'm like, and that immediately, like it shot me back to Stranger Things, like with Eddie.
Speaker 1:What made him so lovable is that affableness, that kind of just charming charisma, that kind recklessness that eddie had in stranger things like I just know that they saw him in that and were like we're just gonna do that, but you're johnny storm well, I have an insane theory as to how you can structure these, because the second fantastic four movie won't come out until after secret wars, and rightfully so right, and then they'll be in the 616 by that time and they'll be in the future by that time. You can plausibly spin this to do this movie as the first one and it's like you get to cover all the best bases of the Fantastic Four comics. What you do is you do this movie, you set it in the 60s, like it's Jack Kirby and Stan Lee doing this, and then you shoot post Secret Wars to the 616 and you have you do you do a nihilist? Like you build up to like for joseph quinn specifically, he has just like stranger things. I think he's gonna do the heroic sacrifice.
Speaker 1:It won't, we're not gonna see this for years, but that's what you need to build to like he's that dumb kid, but like that's his heart. Like his heart is like I. I know I'm, I'm rash and I'm like dumb, but like I still love you guys and like I love Franklin and I love that I, I love this earth. Yep, like I will still sacrifice you. Like you. It's again like it's a. It's funny enough, like they in the Tim Story ones. He's like I'm not just this dumb, I have something, I have a little something special, and unfortunately he had to sacrifice himself to show it. So I hope they get there. I hope they get there, but you set the next two in the future and you just do Hickman's run.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing that we also didn't see in this trailer is, we do know that the kids are in this movie.
Speaker 1:We don't not know, because they've been very coy about it, especially to the point where they were talking in the interviews and Vanessa Kirby's like I guess you're just going to have to watch them eat their parents. By this time they're parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we get some, like I said, we get some great action shots of Conspicuous by its absence. Are the powers of Mr Fantastic? Um, theories as to why? No, I think they might just be saving it. I think they're saving it, yeah, because it's the hardest. It's the hardest one to pull off.
Speaker 1:Um it's so hard to go and Griffin you own Griffin can actually just do that.
Speaker 2:It's it's the hardest one to make look good and pull off, and I think they're just. Maybe they're still working on it, maybe they're just hiding it, um, but I think it's it's the hardest effect to pull off out of all of them. So I think they're just, I think they're just hiding it, um, and letting it, letting it cook a little bit before it's ready to, to uncork itself and like I said the I've said this before talking about reed richards.
Speaker 1:Reed richards, true power isn't the stretch. No, his power is his mind. Like that's the true yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think they funny enough, like maybe like to your point, like about a theory about why we didn't see his powers. Maybe he doesn't use them a ton in the movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what that also accentuates too the fact of the guilt, the, that he feels that and he talks about it in the trailer, which even goes further to that point. He said the last time, like, because what I'm thinking is whenever they're there, that you know what they're, probably before the big third act, like, like, because, again, a theory that I also have is that galactus isn't coming to devour the planet, he's coming for something and if they don't do it, then he'll devour the planet to kind of get the ball rolling, like I hey, sorry, but I need you guys, but I think what he's saying basically, like the last time because he says it the last time we went up there you know Ben wasn't a rock and like that's comic, notorious Like he feels ultimate guilt for turning his best friend into that.
Speaker 2:And you see it too in the trailer with Sue, and you see them well. You see her getting her powers and you see just this brief moment of him thinking that she's dying and you see just this brief moment of him thinking that she's dying.
Speaker 1:You never get that in the other movies either. You know, funny enough. You get that from Miles Teller better than you do from Yohan Griffin. Not the actors, but the characters. You get that a little better in Fantastic Four. Funny enough of the guilt that he feels, to the point where he exiles himself, essentially. But man, absolute nail. I mean. Uh, we could just go down the list real quick. John malkovich is probably playing red ghost. Yep, makes a lot of sense, which is cool. Um, galactus galactus.
Speaker 2:He's got the big head. There's no more space clouds to be had. He's got the big head. He's just galactus. He's just galactus. Like. What else are you gonna say? Like, if I think the thing reveal in the trailer is the promise of the eventual Galactus reveal, they're like look at what we did here with the thing, and now here's Galactus. What do you think we're gonna do with Galactus? And I think he's gonna look great, Incredible.
Speaker 1:He can shift his mass too, right, galactus? Yeah, because once he inevitably fights Erisham, he's going to need to be a lot bigger.
Speaker 2:I just can't wait for the voice oh.
Speaker 1:Inosin's voice. I can't wait. That's going to be the true bang of this is Inosin's voice.
Speaker 2:I can't wait. I can't wait for that, I can't wait.
Speaker 1:We didn can't wait for that. I can't wait. We didn't see anything of the silver surfer in this trailer. Maybe, maybe they and this is like conspiracy theory I think they did it on purpose for, like the nerds, to be like a woman can't be silver surfer, even though in the comics there's a woman. That's the silver surfer. I think maybe they did that on which sucks that's. But, like again, this trailer is to focus on the four. That's what this trailer's to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this trailer.
Speaker 1:We always say this all the time about trailers Like, the trailer needs to tell me what the vibe is A teaser trailer, should be vibe and feel, and this trailer, official trailer one, should start to give me some story beats, some plot yep, and this trailer did vibe and feel off the charts.
Speaker 2:I don't know anything about that. I have my theories.
Speaker 1:I don't know a gosh darn thing about this movie, truthfully. I just know that they're probably telling this non-linear. It's like a recollection, it's a video recollection of the events of the first flight. For a reason, something probably happened.
Speaker 2:You think Galactus destroys the Earth at the end of this?
Speaker 1:It's either he destroys the Earth or he takes Franklin with him.
Speaker 2:Because the theory that people have been isolating, especially in the reed richards stuff, is that he's working on the multiversal bridge and that could be the conduit of like reed.
Speaker 1:Richards was able to build this in 1963 with a box of scrap with a chalkboard with a box of retro futuristic scraps.
Speaker 2:Um. So the theory is that galactus will inevitably destroy this Earth and the Fantastic Four will use the multiversal bridge to escape, which is a pretty sound, solid theory.
Speaker 1:I think they get into the main 616. Obviously, I don't know anything about the events of. Well, they're probably going to do the Oatu thing where they're like hey, the multiverse is collapsing.
Speaker 2:Men out of time, family out of time.
Speaker 1:Well, it could be like galactus is. It could truthfully be galactus is trying to like, spare them like galactus is trying to spare them the fate of like the universe. Galactus is running. They're trying to spare them the fate of like the universe because he knows what's happening. He knows what's gonna happen like what they can play it as is like galactus already survived the multiverse collapse before, in the previous universe.
Speaker 2:He got out of there.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to save you guys from the horror that is to come Diltzman Nullifier Unless Tiamat's also in that Earth too.
Speaker 2:Get rekt Galactus.
Speaker 1:That's a comics thing. He didn't want the celestial expanse, so he started to eat the planets and Reed saved him to do that.
Speaker 2:just because, like reed's, like I understand the bigger picture and everybody's like that's still murder, friend um, but yeah, and then we get the, the big, the big, the suit reveal, the big suit reveal, fantastic for incredible it, it's fantastic. Say it again what are we? Some type of Fantastic Four?
Speaker 1:What are we? Some type of Fantastic Four squad?
Speaker 2:A lesser movie would have said that yeah, no a better movie.
Speaker 1:Actually would have said that.
Speaker 2:We're the Fantastic Four and these are our first steps. He didn't say that, but yeah, I mean, I don't know what else. What else can we say?
Speaker 1:I, I mean this. This was just. It's one of the best trailers I've ever seen. Big swing, big swing, big theory, time, big, all right. So I need one big theory and I would need one massive overreaction overreaction.
Speaker 2:In the sense of what?
Speaker 1:like it could be anything. It could be good, bad, ugly, okay, decent, like, just like. This is my overreaction to anything that's associated with this movie could be. The box office could be like this movie's gonna make three billion dollars no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Um. Big theory, big theory time. Um, I don't know if it's so much of a theory, but I think we're going to get a Doctor Doom something absolutely.
Speaker 1:What better way if this movie truthfully is good, it'll quiet the people that are like, well, you just threw that in the multiverse of madness deniers of the Illuminati to be like. You can't just throw this in the throat if they execute it the way and still keep the integrity of this film. Robert Downey Jr showing up and Pedro and him and like, if they execute it the way and still keep the integrity of this film, robert downey jr showing up at this is like and pedro and him like immediately already know each other, immediate buttheads. Like and have him be victor at the point, don't I mean obviously it'll be dr doom, but like approach him as victor first of like. Like reed, you idiot, you think you're so smart with your baxter building. I have a country's dummy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they need to with Downey, I think is make him. They need to immediately draw the contrast between him and Tony Stark. He has to be like properly cold, menacing, villainous jokes no like yeah, you need to, doesn't quip. Yeah, you got to separate doom. Separate Doom from Stark. That's gotta be mission A with this whole Robert Downey Jr thing.
Speaker 1:I do think he's in this movie and again I'm gonna bold state claim same thing he's the Doctor Doom from that universe. Mm-hmm, yep. And then your big overreaction, my big overreaction. You can be like. This is going to be the greatest comic book movie of all time.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's a big overreaction, I think I don't want to be careful how I word this. I think Vanessa Kirby could potentially be the face of Marvel going forward. Wow, that's incredible. If this movie works, because I think she's going to be that integral to the plot and people are going to leave that movie going, she's. She's the one that needs to like kind of build around for lack of a like we've we've had the marvel problem, right, we've talked about this for months at this point, like who are we building around? It's gonna be them. I think it's gonna be them and I think it's gonna be her.
Speaker 1:Your immediate answer is Pedro, but I feel like it's going to. It's like the four of them are just so special in all of their own right. But I could see what you're saying about Vanessa Kirby, my conspiracy theory. Um, they're going to do the council of reads and that's how read is going to know what's going to happen, like what's going on, because the I guarantee you, the other ones of them are going to be like Galactus, isn't it? Is it going to be? You think it's going to be all of them? I hope so and I hope it doesn't betray the again.
Speaker 1:That's the thing I'm afraid of is that, like Shackman is very adamant, like we can't do what they did in Multiverse of Madness. At the same time, if the film itself is still good enough, it wouldn't take away. It could really. Potentially, it could add, because it's something that's so notorious, like the Illuminati characters that we got the only one, that was actually the only two that were actually members of the Illuminati, or three professor X, uh, read in in black bowl, Like it felt so to your point, like that's not what that movie was like, that was in the cell of that movie.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That was five. You like that was in the cell of that movie, right, that was five. You walked in and said, hey guys, make sure you get this right, but the illuminati. You can't make sure you get the illuminati right, but like, how I want it to go is like reed is messing around with the multiverse, even if it's a transmission any sort of type he's like messing around with the multiverse and he's being a bad dad.
Speaker 1:Um, it's as simple as, like yo and and Griffin, I genuinely think is in this movie. I do think there's another Reed Richards in this movie. I don't know if it's a post-credits scene, I don't know if it's the middle of the movie. Um, yo and Griffin. I just think John Krasinski is one call away. Well, like, why not? You know what I mean. Like, just why not? The one that I truthfully would be overjoyed to see, and I think would be insane, would be Miles Teller. But you spin it and you make him the maker. So it's like he's still Reed, but he's gone. He's truthfully gone, and maybe the maker's the one that gives him the idea for, hey, you should make the ultimate nullifier and just murder him when he comes.
Speaker 2:Destroy Galactus. I think that's a good call. I think, yeah, I think they do get Yohan Griffin in this movie. If for nothing else, like Marvel's usually been pretty good with that type of stuff, especially with the old hat Fox group, yeah Of kind of giving them a little something. A little something If they want it, yeah, Obviously, like Ben Affleck probably doesn't want it, sure, but like stewart's done a couple things now. Obviously hugh jackman came back um. Jennifer garner came back um blee or wesley snipes obviously came back. So like it does feel like if, if the one c, grammar, kelsey grammar's back, he wants to play beast and more things. Kelsey Grammer loves playing Beast. Did I read that he wants to be in one of these Avengers movies?
Speaker 1:as Beast. It's going to happen Because we said, because our theory was like Put him in a Sentinel. You cowards Beast loves driving Sentinels, oh dear. I genuinely think they're going to get the X-Men lineup from the Bryan Singer movies just to be. They still could spin it as the. To get the X-Men lineup from the Bryan Singer movies just to be. They still could spin it as the Avengers versus the X-Men, it's that universe versus the main 616 on Battleworld. They could still do it.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking Chris Evans came back as Johnny Storm for a little bit, so I think if Yohan Griffin wants to do it, I wouldn't be totally shocked. Right, I'd be like my degrees of, I guess. If we're going to rank the degrees, of surprise for the Reed Richards actors showing up. I think Ewan Griffin is most likely to appear, I think Krasinski's in the middle second place and Miles Teller is far and away the least likely to show up.
Speaker 1:Just call Miles Teller and say you can be a bad guy. He hates that movie. Yeah, he does, but like, if you spin it and you're like dude, you get to be cool.
Speaker 2:This time he's like hmm, I do want to be cool.
Speaker 1:And he's looking over his shoulder making sure glenn powell isn't behind yeah keep that guy away from me my overreaction is that shackman's gonna turn into the golden boy of marvel you talked, talked, you, talked, you told me about this.
Speaker 2:He's going to be like I love this idea.
Speaker 1:By the end of this movie, not only will he be the golden boy of Marvel, the Russo's if this rumor is true, they're going to get the fit the X-Men.
Speaker 2:He's going to hand the first X-Men Simple. I think that can absolutely happen because I think this movie's going to do really well.
Speaker 1:Give Shackman a younger cast for the X-Men. Give him like. I saw this Sadie Sink thing. I saw the. I forget the one guy's name. Oh, the Cyclops thing. Yeah, oh, harrison Dickinson.
Speaker 2:Harrison Ford. Nope ford, nope um maybe once upon a time harrison ford is cyclops. They did that movie in the 60s. No current harrison ford. No to me, my x-men. God he's cool. Is he cool? Hell yeah, he's cool I'm harrison ford, y'all that's the alternate universe guardians of the galaxy. Um, no, I think you're completely right. I think I think this could absolutely happen, for that's the alternate universe Guardians of the Galaxy. No, I think you're completely right. I think this could absolutely happen for Matt Shackman, and I think it would be great.
Speaker 1:He could potentially turn into what James Gunn was for them at some point.
Speaker 2:This is his second movie ever.
Speaker 1:I think it's his first.
Speaker 2:No, it's his second, but the first one was a nothing burger. Don't say nothing. Cut Bank was the name of it, liam hemsworth was in it.
Speaker 1:Oh shoot, bob billy. Bob thornton was in it. John malkovich was also in it.
Speaker 2:Now it makes sense. The film follows a witness to a murder who wants to get rich off of what he saw. It released in the united states apr 3rd 2015. A limited release and video by demand by A24. All right, 92 minutes, cool. No, I think that's accurate. I think, man, if you could get, if this movie's as good as it looks, and you could get a directorial stable of Matt Shackman, ryan Coogler what's his name?
Speaker 1:from Deadpool and Wolverine, Sean Levyine, sean Levy, sean Levy. I think he's gonna commit to Star Wars though I think he's gonna commit, he shouldn't, he shouldn't. Maybe he'll do the next, because that movie made a.
Speaker 2:They're gonna do another one and I think, to add an overreaction to your overreaction on top of like, because of the news about the Russussos. Yep, I think kevin feige is getting ready to hand the baseball cap over to the russos get to a two, a two-headed monster.
Speaker 1:Instead of just himself he steps into like a more ceo role. I can see a possible future way, way down the line where kevin feige turns into the ceo of disney. Like I can see a future where that happens.
Speaker 2:This is, this is the type of thing that we're. This is what we wanted he's running disney now.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm not even joking like I genuinely think at some point in his lifetime he's the one making them all the money. That's what I'm saying. He's the one that's literally like he. He coerced and and plotted and schemed to make them the single, most plotted and schemed, single, most successful movie franchise of all time and it's gonna, it's gonna swing back up.
Speaker 2:Man, it really is once fantastic.
Speaker 1:Four happens once let me tell you something. Once the first trailer for doomsday comes out and like you get one cameo from one person, you're everybody's gonna be oh, we're back, we're so back I think.
Speaker 2:I think we're having that reaction now. Yeah we're so back With this Fantastic Four thing. Man, I really do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have one fear, because I'm thinking about 2022, when Ant-Man and the Wasp came out, or Quantumania came out, and I was like, okay, or 2023. And I was like, all right, I'm feeling like you remember. I was like, all right, I'm feeling like you remember. Like I was like we're going to bounce back, Like no, no, we were came off of Wakanda forever. I was like we're going to get back into the multiversal saga.
Speaker 2:We're really going to start to ramp up. Yeah, but Quantum Minion never answered. It. Never answered the question. The biggest question that I had for it was was how is this Ant-Man Kang thing going to work? And it didn't. No, it turns out it was with the answer. Like this I don't necessarily have a question about Right, like that trailer didn't give me anything where I'm like skeptical or nervous about the plot. Sure.
Speaker 2:Where I'm like well, how's this going to work? How's that Like they said it in the retro, like any, all bets are off. All bets are off. I think that's with Ant-Man. That's the thing that bugged me the most about it.
Speaker 1:I see what you did there.
Speaker 2:Was you have to find a way?
Speaker 1:to resolve the movie and still keep Kang going. Not only keep Kang going, but keep him as the top absolute dog to go against everybody. And then they just said this movie doesn't matter to anything. What?
Speaker 2:if he lost though, To Ant-Man. Whereas this it's set in an alternate timeline or alternate Earth, whatever you want to anything. What if he lost, though, to Ant-Man? Whereas this it's set in an alternate timeline or alternate Earth, whatever you want to say, all bets are off. They could lose, they probably will lose, whereas, like Quantumania, you're like, how can he? Ant-man can't lose.
Speaker 1:But Kang also can't lose. Like you're, ant's the man you can't lose.
Speaker 2:He can't lose because if he loses, he's done, he's kang will kill him and he he should have. But then we found out that ant-man was him.
Speaker 1:No ant-man has hands. His hands are in an e for everyone. He beat up captain america. He did beat up captain america. Did he get some cheap shots in? Yeah, um, here's what I'm saying, though. Who's kang, who's ant-Man fought? He fought the Falcon. He fought the one guy in jail. He fought Kang. He fought War Machine. Do you have any correlation between these two? He fought Black Panther. He fought Black Panther For a bit. There's a lot of correlation between who he's fought. I'm not making any accusations or saying anything. I'm just saying he's friends with TI. Say it. I'm just saying he's friends with ti. Say it. I'm just saying, say it what? I have a black friend.
Speaker 1:You didn't think we were coming with the. It could possibly be some sort of a racist bit, but it's here. Um, not paul rudd, he's a delightful human being, but scott lang, we have questions. This was about the fantastic force. It was, um, you know what? The number one thing I think about there are my final remarks on this trailer. What if the rest of the mcu was set in the 60s like you dropped it, I? You drop ant-man. He's probably hank him. You drop him in the 60s, you drop spot. The big one is, you drop spider-man in the 60s. What does it look like? Um drop spider-man in the 60s, you drop who else? I got Iron man. You drop Iron man in the 60s. You know, one of the big ones I want to see is the Fantastic Four, the X-Men in the 60s. I would really like to see that one.
Speaker 2:Did you see people saying that they should bring Dominic Cooper back to be Tony Stark of that Fantastic Four universe?
Speaker 1:That would be insane. I think that would be cool, that would be wild, as like 60s Iron man.
Speaker 2:I think that would be cool, as like 60s Iron man.
Speaker 1:I think that'd be cool. They could yeah, they could plausibly like, have a, have a Tony Stark in that universe. They could have a, they could have a Steve Rogers in that universe. I think personally, you could probably get away with it and go further with it. You don't you can have a Black Panther in that universe that's running around Wakanda, like this is where the comic started, like it started in the 60s, like you can have all these things plausibly. Yeah, you can have a whole. You can have a bruce branner running around.
Speaker 2:I do think this, this earth, is destined to be destroyed, though I think that's ultimately where this is going, um, and that's how you get them over, and then you like there's a whole compelling situation that emerges from that. Like they were heroes on their earth, like famous heroes are the real mysterios. Like they were famous heroes on their earth and they got, they lost and the earth was destroyed. How do they, how do they recover, recover from that? Yep, I think that's really that could be a really interesting I. How does reed richards recover?
Speaker 1:from that, because he thinks he can outsmart, he's the smartest man alive and he still couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2:He couldn't figure it out, and then dr doom shows up on top of that yeah, he's like my old wait victor.
Speaker 1:Are you here to help? No, I'm here to murder you, reed.
Speaker 2:I hate you no, don't play the, so I don't know. I think a lot of cool stuff can come out of this um and also just make a simple great film.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think they might have done it yeah, I think they might have done it too.
Speaker 2:And, in the spirit of great, great teaser trailers, I want to see more. I'm I need another trailer like I just need one now. Like, like, show me, show me more from this movie, like I, I'm, I'm ready, I'm ready for it. The suits look great. Suits look so good, so good. I just they. They went to I think they've gone to a special, special place.
Speaker 1:You could really like you, could you? You essentially, what they can pop, they can do, is like, if they want to keep making these and I think if this movie finds a way to sneak into the 800 to billion range, like you're, oh, I think it's going to these like the second one and especially post and this is the thing that the mcu didn't have post end game, that they're gonna have going into post secret wars, is like a definitive team of a-list actors ready to rock right after. Like that's something they weren't banking on. And you have the potential in the, in the, not the probability like they're probably going to call the next one the mutant saga. Like you have the X-Men ready to go.
Speaker 2:And seeing this trailer alongside the Superman trailer and they're releasing such proximity to each other. I don't. I don't think we have a rivaling faction situation. I think we have a potential superhero Barbenheimer Sitch.
Speaker 1:And I didn't believe you until yesterday, when this trailer came out Because we've kind of been going back and forth about this I genuinely thought it was going to be an absolute battleground. Superman was either going to be Superman comes, gets the Top Gun run, and then Fantastic Four has to be detached to the Marvel name.
Speaker 2:I think they're going to feed off each other, because I think they're both going to be really good and I think they're both going to be really good and I think they're both going to be like actual movies and I think people are going to gravitate to that and I think both these movies are going to do really well.
Speaker 1:I can, I'm going to, I mean, we're probably we're going to see both in the same day, like once fantastic four comes out, like I'm, I'm itching to see both and like I might catch the early Superman screener before I go to see Fantastic Four. I really want to see both of these movies and at the end of the day and I'll leave it with this is this not the coolest dang thing in the world that we're getting a prime Superman and a prime Fantastic Four movie in two weeks of each other. Is that not the coolest thing?
Speaker 1:It's really good man Made by people that look like they care about these characters.
Speaker 2:This I mean, for lack of a better word this fantastic four thing felt so it's not even. It's not early mcu, it's antithetical to anything that they've done. Yeah, besides, maybe wandavision funny enough.
Speaker 1:You know how many people that didn't realize that, like I was watching a whole bunch of trailer reactions. I saw so many people that didn't realize that I was watching a whole bunch of trailer reactions. I saw so many people that didn't know that Shackman did this. They were like kind of feels like WandaVision. I'm like, yeah, it does kind of feel like WandaVision. It feels so much like WandaVision, wandavision's such a gem yeah, it really is, but now he's like filmmaking.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, I can't wait, man. I really can't wait and it's going to hit.
Speaker 1:They're going to show it during the Super Bowl and I'm going to be like, yep, I need to see it right now. Man, that really took away all the massive trailers that can come out for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2:I know I don't know what we're going to do next week for the Super Bowl, and I don't know what we're going to do.
Speaker 1:I don't know. We'll figure it out. We'll recap the Superbowl. Yeah, we're going to do a sport. No, we're going to do remember, the Titans next week. Um, how fun. How fun is this?
Speaker 2:How fun is football Zero fun, sir. I love that movie so much. Um, captain America so uh. Captain America, brave new world is out next week. Um came, came, crept right up on us. Um, it is kicking off the. I guess agatha kind of did this, but this is kicking off the. The cinema year for 2025, for marvel. Um, coming off the back of deadpool and wolverine, marvel is so back. Marvel's been never been more back. Um. Deadpool and wolverine came out in. Wow came out almost a year ago. Yep, that's crazy. When did it come out? July, july 26th, I think it's because that movie stayed in theater so long that I'm like it feels like it just came out.
Speaker 2:But no that movie's been out since July, wow. So first movie since Deadpool and Wolverine starring Sam Wilson, and that's what we want to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we want to talk about Anthony Mackie's journey throughout the MCU up until this point.
Speaker 2:Yes, starting throughout the MCU up until this point. Yes, starting with Captain America Winter Soldier, my favorite Marvel film ever, and he is a great grounding point-of-view character in Winter Soldier and he's the.
Speaker 1:What I love about it is not only does it ground Steve, it grounds us in a way too, because he truthfully is the audience surrogate in there. He's this guy that has this figure that had been talked about throughout history for so long that comes back that he has to kind of help along the way. That is a good surrogate character to have along with this plot. I don't think, and we won't do it until God, hoping years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years in the future, like when anthony mackie, unfortunately, as all human beings do pass away like jesus, no, like. My point is like I don't think we appreciate anthony mackie the way that we should.
Speaker 1:I don't think we ever have and unfortunately, like, like I said, when he's the oldest of all men, like I, like I hope that, like I hope it doesn't take to that. Like I love listening to him in interviews. He just seems fun, like he seems like a fun guy, but he also seems like he cares, like he also genuinely seems like he cares about these characters, like he's very like active and vocal about the actor experience too, which I really appreciate and you can see it. You can see all those like you know you can see all these little bits and pieces and really appreciate, and you can see it. You can see all those like you know, you can see all these little bits and pieces and especially in Winter Soldier, you can see it Like he has a tenderness to him which I really appreciate.
Speaker 2:I love his backstory of being, you know, a veteran that helps veterans, yes. And what a perfect and that's what makes is so important to the character of captain america that that almost becomes like his defining quality as captain america, but it's the quality that's always been there. Um, like I said, he's just a tremendous audience and I just love how down he is. Yep.
Speaker 1:You know. It's like again to your point, like he's you know, ex-military guy right and like the military's guy is at his front step. That's like, if you're like a basketball player, like that's like at a park playing and LeBron pulls up, you're like, yeah, you want to be on my team to show up at rucker park? Yeah, I want to be on your team. Your, your basketball, is the lebron james. Why would I not want to?
Speaker 2:be on. Yeah, captain america's like, hey, man, we're gonna, we're doing this, this is gonna suck. And he's like you, sure you want to do this. He's like what does he say? What's the line where he's like fight, you know, doing a mission with captain america. Like sign me up, man, like I'm ready to roll. He, he gives steve. Uh, introduction to the culture.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Which I really like.
Speaker 1:I love that first interaction with the two of them. Decent 1978 Trouble man soundtrack. He's like. I'll add it to the list. They're such a great pairing that you don't think about.
Speaker 2:And there was never once the idea that he was Captain America's sidekick, which could have easily happened. He could have easily just been passed off as Captain America's sidekick, which could have easily happened. He could have easily just been passed off as Captain America's sidekick, and I think the Russos, and before them in First Avenger, did a really nice job with Bucky and Sam, not making them Steve's sidekicks.
Speaker 1:They're making them Steve's friends. So that way the emotional gut punch is like I think we've grown a bit numb to the sidekick dying trope. Thanks, robin, you murdered that four Bucky too. Bucky too, but they do a good job with Sam about making him a human being, and a human being that we care about too. I'm worried about him this whole fight, but he's also cool as heck.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, yeah he's. I mean just the Falcon, the redesign to the modern MCU of not making him like a bird person and making him like a tech guy, like big he's, a tech expert he is.
Speaker 1:he can pilot those wings in a way that nobody else can.
Speaker 2:And that's why he keeps them when he becomes captain America, cause he that, yep, and that's why he keeps them when he becomes captain america, because he, that's. That's that's the thing is like. That's what I love about. It's one of my favorite things. Talking about jumping to guardians of the galaxy 3. It's one of my favorite things that they do with peter quill in guardians of galaxy 3, like he yes, he is a goof, he is jokey, jokey, jokey guy.
Speaker 2:But the one scene that sticks out to me in guardians 3 is when he's venting about gamora while at the same time like effortlessly taking down, like an advanced defense system, and I'm like that's why you're a superhero, that's why you are, that's why you're the leader of the guardians of the galaxy, because you have this expertise that no one else has, and sam has that also with the wings and with his combat prowess. No one else can do with those wings what Sam can do. That's the most important thing in a hero. Why are you the way you are? Why are you a hero? Because you can do things that nobody else can. Why is Tony Stark Iron man? Because he can do things that nobody else can. Same thing, right down the list Peter Parker, steve Rogers. They are in those positions because they can do things that no one else can, and Sam fits that exact thing.
Speaker 1:And I'll cap off your point by this he's a hero because he can do the things that other people can't. He's Captain America because he's not a better. He's the best person that he can be For other people. That's why he's.
Speaker 2:Captain America, that's can be for other people.
Speaker 1:That's why he's captain.
Speaker 2:That's why it's yours. That's why it's yours, we'll get to infinity war in a second um civil. Uh ant-man, he shows up, it gets his ass kicked I'm just saying man, I'm just saying all those things, all those things that I just said about him, about being the best at what he does, completely undone by Ant-Man.
Speaker 1:I don't understand it, man, it's funny.
Speaker 2:It makes sense in the sense that he, sam, at the end of the day, still has humanity, he still is susceptible to overlooking somebody. He's an Avenger now, right? Well, I guess Age of ultron before, avengers, right? He I mean, he doesn't do much in avengers in in age of ultron he lands he shows up at the end, he's the deus ex falcon.
Speaker 2:At the end he shows up with nick fury and all this stuff and, to be fair, you know, I guess the biggest thing that happens to him in age of ultron is he's an avenger. Now he shows up with vision and wanda and War Machine and they're the Avengers. Nothing really comes of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does, they are the Avengers, sort of. Yeah, they're the Avengers in Civil War.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they start as the they do an Avenger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do an Avengering together. And then Wanda ruined it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so before he does Avengering in Civil War, he does get his ass kicked by Ant-Man, but to my point, he is susceptible to hubris, like any of us. He's an Avenger, he's feeling himself, he's like get lost, little man, little person. And Scott, again to my point about what makes these heroes heroes. Scott is the best at what he does. He is the best thief, he is the best at subterfuge, he is the best and he's the best. He's also a good tech guy. He can get, and he can get in a falcon's suit and disable him. You know, credit, credit to ant-man, um, but they strike up a nice little, a nice little friendship on the back end of that which I really wish we saw a little bit more of.
Speaker 1:To be perfectly honest, If Scott was in Infinity War, that's probably where you'd do it.
Speaker 2:You know what I want more than anything in the world, and I don't know if it's ever going to happen Scott's affinity for the mantle and the person of Captain America. I want that to play out with Sam.
Speaker 1:That would be so funny. He's just like well, he trusted you, so now you're my captain. Yeah, I think that would be freaking awesome.
Speaker 2:Like whatever you yes, cats, whatever you say, captain America and Sam's like knock it off.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not Steve, knock it off, tic-tac, have this shit. What do you mean by you? I want to see, I want to see scott and and sam reunite, now that sam's captain america. I don't know if we'll ever see it, but I I want to see it. I think that would be really, really cool. Um, civil war. Um, sam is a very important vocal part of civil war.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he is he's, he's and it's not. I don't even think it's because of I think a part of it is it played off of his relationship with cap and how much they'd been through, but also I think it was it's sam being sam. It's what sam had been through too. Like freedom, like no legislation on superheroes. Like why would I ever want to? Like I saw what hydra just did to everybody with some legislation. Like why would I ever want that ever again? I saved, I saved you, I saved you. And you want to talk to me about superhero registrar Like you, you must be crazy.
Speaker 2:Cause that's the thing that everyone forgets about the Hydra thing in Winter Soldier, they were going to wipe all the superheroes off the map. Yes, that was the plan, like Sam, you know, to Sam and Steve's credit, they were never like, hey, we saved you guys from Hydra. They never said that because why would they? And that's why both of them were Captain America, and I love the framing that everyone's out, even Cap's allies, are skeptical of Bucky, but not Sam, because Sam went through the events of Winter Soldier with Steve. He knows what happened to Bucky, so he's like I'm, I'm with you to, you know, to quote bucky, like I'm with you to the end of the line, pal, um, him and t'challa have have some nice back and forth, which I really appreciate. Um, he's, yeah, I really love you know, sam's. He's the one that suggests to cap that like, hey, like there might be no going back from this. Yeah, like we might have to fight iron man like this and his crew like this might be coming. You know, he's the one who suggests getting clint out of retirement. He's the one who suggests recruiting wanda, like those were all sam's ideas. You know what I mean, which I think I think again is is. We're just, we're just sprinkling. You know, we're sprinkled, sprinkling stuff in there.
Speaker 2:Like I think everyone was so dead set on bucky taking the shield once chris evans was done, um, I don't think, you know, to be honest, like I don't think anyone ever considered that sam was gonna get the shield. I don't think everyone, anyone ever considered that, um, man I love, and then it's sam. That's the one that breaks through to tony. Yep, in civil war, you know where. Sam's like why would I tell you anything? And then tony's like look, I disabled the communication. Like can you level with me? Like is, is this legit? Like what cap's doing? And sam's's like when had like yeah, yeah, basically like when has he ever led you wrong?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, like, what are we talking about here? Like, like, what are we doing? Um, turns out Steve did lead him wrong for for many, many, many. And then we go. You know, steve breaks them all out of prison at the end and then we get his return. We get Sam's return in Infinity War with Black Widow and Captain America that I wish we had gotten more of the three of them doing stuff.
Speaker 1:Dude Together. What I love about it, too, is it bolsters Falcon's credibility, even though you shouldn't really need to do that, especially civil war. But it keeps getting him higher and higher and higher on that list and on that like, yeah, yeah, talk about not the most powerful avengers, but like the most important avengers like sam is high on that list of like crucial to this avengers team he was avengering in the shadows for with with captain america and black widow for presumably years.
Speaker 2:I wish I. It's another thing I wish we just got more of. I don't know, I don't think there was ever a place for it If Disney Plus existed, maybe, maybe they would have done it.
Speaker 2:And I think that would have been super, super cool. Just cause, like they're kind of like the mean Avengers, like they were going to kill Proxima Midnight, like like Black, like they were going to kill Proxima Midnight, Like Black Widow straight up tells her like we don't want to kill you but we will if we have to, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, like there's a chippiness and a darkness to that trio that like I kind of like, like Sam's never hesitant to pull the straps out. And again, like he knocks Proxima Midnight on her ass A few times, a few times. Like he's squirrely, that guy, when he gets in the air, then he's kind of relegated to just air support in the Infinity War battle, him and War Machine, which is kind of cool. And then Sam gets snapped out of existence. Mr Crafted America, I don't feel so good, sucks, man Dang, that scene sucks. Oh, all the Disney Plus characters got snapped out of existence, that's true.
Speaker 2:And then, endgame, he has the line, the line, the line On your left, cabot Sam, do you read me? And then, endgame, he has the line, the line, the line on your left, cabot Sam, do you read me? On your left, he flies through. It's awesome. There's really. I mean, what else do you say? And then, obviously, the moment at the end of, at the end of endgame, the official mantle pass. You don't got the shield in that little thing, do you? And that shield's shaped bagged. Maybe that shield's shaped bagged.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't have to have the shield in there, would you? You want me to pass that to Bucky, right?
Speaker 2:But I love that scene where him and Bucky see Steve and Bucky initiates Bucky knows, he knows, he knows. And Bucky initiates Bucky knows, he knows, he knows, yep. And Bucky goes, he says to Sam he goes, go ahead. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Sam goes up and I love that point you made because it's going to, it helps so much in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, like they do have a special relationship, the two of them as well too. We didn't even really talk about that as well too. Yeah, well, because, um, well, because we don't really see it develop in the movies. To be you know, they don't spend a whole ton of time together, but the time they do spend, together like I love, like the fight for steve's best friendedness that they have.
Speaker 2:But it's also it's not even a fight so much as it's like you're his best friend, no, you're his best friend like they're like too modest and to. And then the modesty comes to a culmination when steve's sitting and Bucky tells Sam like he's here for you, he's here to give you that, like he's not here to give me that he's here for you, go get it. And then obviously Sam and Steve share just a wonderful, wonderful moment that's almost undercut by the distracting Chris Evans aging up. Yeah, cgi, the Joe Biden Christopher, the Joe Bidenification of Chris Evans aging up. Yeah, cgi, the Joe Biden Christopher, the Joe Bidenification of Chris Evans. And he officially gives the shield over. You know, he's like I had to go back and get something, had to bring it here, and Sam's like cool shield man and Steve's like why don't you try it on?
Speaker 1:And Sam's like he does the meme.
Speaker 2:You don't mean me, do you? And Sam grabs the shield and he does a pose, big, pose, Big Captain America pose. The Captain America music plays behind him and he says how does it feel Like it's someone else's? It isn't.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yeah, that's enough to make a grown man go Heck yeah. Um and then basically he just gives the shield right back to the American.
Speaker 2:They still have a nice moment where he's like I'm just sad I have to live in a world without captain America. And Steve's like what if you were captain America, you know? And he's like what if you were captain america, you know? And he's like I don't, you know how does it feel like it's someone else's? He's like you know, I'll do my best is what he says to steve and c goes, and that's why it's yours and that's why it is his, because that's all at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:super serum aside, steve rogers was just a guy doing his best guy doing his best and a guy trying to do the right thing, yep, and then to your point he just gives the shield right, but that's not the right that we were talking about, sam Demi.
Speaker 2:Steve went no, and that's a big sticking point in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, where Bucky's like what why?
Speaker 1:What? He time-traveled all the way across the multiverse to get that thing back here and you just said I'm going to give it to the American government.
Speaker 2:So that they could give it to John Walker.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about John Walker for a little bit. Yeah, I think one of the most compelling characters in the entire MCU.
Speaker 1:Can't wait to see more of him. Can't wait, he's so interesting, he's so interesting, he's so interesting, so again. So let's remix the point. Like john walker in another universe would have been sam, like another military guy that, when steve came back to the modern age, like, hey, I can help you just by myself being me like, and then just give me the mantle of captain america. However, john is lacking one thing that sam does not lack.
Speaker 2:John lacks a bit of humanity, which which sam makes up for in droves, which, to be fair, john does reconcile with quite a bit. Yeah, he does. When, like he's he's talking about like getting his medal of honors and he's like I got these medals like by killing people, and his you know, his best friend lamar, is like nah, man, you're fucking rad yeah, are you not the coolest guy ever, dude?
Speaker 1:You were the high school quarterback and you dated the most popular girl. Now you're Captain America. That's not cool bro.
Speaker 2:And John's like yeah, it is kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Now give me that super soldier zero.
Speaker 2:And now I'm crazy. Now I'm crazy. All the meanwhile, though, sam and Bucky are just back and bickering. Essentially Because Sam and Bucky are just back and bickering? Essentially Because Bucky just he can't get it. He doesn't get it. And why doesn't he get it? Court Because racism? Huh, well, because Sam basically says like this was never going to happen, like they were never going to let this happen anyway.
Speaker 1:So let me just I mean, we can talk about the bigger fish, yeah, about you know, I think we should what this show tackled, he's tackled, he's tackled. Not the robot, the creator from the robot, from the creator, john Walker is tackled, he's tackled. No, that's what John Walker said to Sam. He's tackled. No, that's what he tried to say to the Dora Milaje he's tackled. Let's talk about it, man. So I always will respect this show.
Speaker 1:So so much for what they did. I mean to take an approach like this, and here's the thing that I always say with this because this, this was like the first exit. It was obviously, it was the scene in endgame, uh, the a4 scene. But this was the true like narrative plot piece show to be like they're gonna get woke. That doesn't exist. That's not a thing that actually exists, just so everybody knows. But what I think was special about it was Anthony Mackie's commitment to it and everybody's commitment to it, and it's, I'm sorry, like to offend anybody, like that's a real anxiety. That's an actual, real-life anxiety that he had. And look what the government immediately did they immediately just turned it over to somebody else that looked just like Steve, just turned it right back over to him, because that's the thing that they thought that everybody needed.
Speaker 2:And Bucky couldn't wrap his head around it. Because he comes from a place of privilege.
Speaker 1:Yep, he's like why would you ever give this away? You know how difficult this is. And Sam, and again, this is what I'll give Sam and his arc in that show. Sam immediately said to your point they're not going to accept me as Captain America, they want the blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy to be Captain.
Speaker 2:America. It's not. Yeah and he doesn't. I don't believe it's been a while since I watched Falcon and the Little Children, but I don't think he outright says like I gave the shield up because they were just going to take it from me anyway. But that's the implication.
Speaker 1:And you know what they might cover, Because one of the things I was very concerned about Brave New World they were going to retract the same thing that a six-episode show already did. What they might remix it as is like, hey, it's not that they're going to take the shield away from me, it's that once I become the government's Captain America, I'm going to have an immediate like I'm going to have a target that Steve never had on my back, Because some people will just want me dead because of the way I look. They wanted Steve dead because of the symbol that he was.
Speaker 2:And they're not going to trust me to make the decisions that he made.
Speaker 1:Yep. At the end of the day, he was one of the main heroes of the second battle of New York, like the battle that saved the entire human race, like he was the main guy and I think the public knows that he was the main he was captain America.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, and, and I mean just the obviously the line that sticks out is the Isaiah Bradley line.
Speaker 1:They'll never let a black man be captain America.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like for the complaint about the show being woke, especially like I don't know. A lot of people talk about the bank scene. Yeah, it just happened to Ryan Coogler. Oh yeah, like a month ago, like the same exact thing. Not the same exact thing. He wasn't taking out a loan, but he was trying to withdraw money from his bank account.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're talking Right. You're talking about the scene where him and Bucky are just walking down the street and the cops are like oh, he's.
Speaker 2:And the guy's like oh my God, wait.
Speaker 1:He said you played for? Did you play for LSU or something? He's like no, you're the Falcon. Yeah, you saved the whole universe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course I'll help you with a you know whatever. But before then he got denied the loan for no reason. Well, month ago, like he got profiled at a bank trying to get money out of his account and he got profiled like they did they thought he was like robbing the money, and then, once they figured out what it's, just like, oh I'm so.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, keep that same energy up, yeah, so it's not too woke, like this stuff happens to people all the time like it's, it's and you think like, oh, that could possibly happen to someone that famous, and then it literally happened to someone that famous.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and lebron gets the n-word spray painted on his garage door for existing. So yes, I think isaiah bradley was right in that line and sam.
Speaker 2:I mean look how many hoops sam had to jump through to prove that he could be Captain America. Like, even though in the end, like Isaiah, was wrong. Quote unquote Like look what Sam had to do to get the recognition and to be Captain America, you know what I mean. Like first of all, john Walker had to kill somebody in broad daylight.
Speaker 1:You know how I think about it and I think real world implication for that. I guarantee you, and I kind of hope, that obviously, if John Walker was in Cap 4, which I originally thought was going to happen I think they would have covered this. John Walker probably would have had a support like a group of people that were like you know, it would have been a Homelander thing. No, like John, this is the Captain America that we need now, versus Sam is the actual Captain America that the world needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point. It's a great point. They never really touch on that. They did such a. It was kind of like a hand-washy job of like alright, he crossed the line.
Speaker 1:Excel plot hand-washy. Obviously, and I'll never forget, because this was 2021, the show came out. I'll never forget when he was, episode four ends and he's holding the shield. It was plastered all over social media. He's holding the shield with the blood on and I was just like this is something like the end.
Speaker 2:They kind of like you said, they kind of well, because they had to it's the six episode, structure six episode structure and they had to make john walker sympathetic but again, the six episode structure makes that very too quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the and the, and then you get to episode five. Like I understand your mandates, like I've only ever done what you'd like. Imagine that played out a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like they had to, they had to, yeah, they had to. They had to wash John Walker up a little bit to make him a little more sympathetic. So they basically made it so like the serum made him crazy, by your eyes bulging out of your head what just happened oh, basketball stuff, only jimmy butler being on the warriors now whoa wow, that is big news. Breaking news jimmy butler got traded.
Speaker 1:Breaking news breaking news jimmy butler is one of the warriors. That's how reed richards would have said it um, wow, cool.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, john walker, so yeah, they do. They had to make him sympathetic because they had to make him a main character of something else, um, so I don't think there was really room to do like the homeland verification of like this sect of people actually kind of liked what john walker did, like it was kind of rad.
Speaker 1:Um, but I think I still john, john Walker's not a bad person. No, no, he's not, and that's something that they you know episode two does that so well. I really liked that episode of the beginning of episode two because again in a longer format show that whole idea keeps running that like John Walker is this American war hero. He just doesn't have and he still has integrity. Like John Walker has a lot and I think the Thunderbolts is going to do the heavy lifting for that. Like John Walker has like a lot of good qualities to him.
Speaker 2:He just he's a product of what he was built to be and he's trying to find the line between you know, being this executioner level, like word of law, captain American, like the integrity of just being a good man yep, that's a great point.
Speaker 2:And and to like the like the john walker thing like he, he embodied the idea of captain america the way he thinks of captain america whereas sam, having actually known captain america and fought alongside him, actually knows the qualities of what makes Captain America Captain America, whereas John Walker just saw Captain America as a cop Rogue calls him an X-Men 97, America's top cop.
Speaker 1:I'll even go further he sees himself as a George Washington. I'm going to go across the river with you guys. That's not who Captain America is.
Speaker 2:Obviously, we get that great fight scene, which obviously doesn't have anything to do with with, like the character, but it does?
Speaker 1:I think it does it. You know what it does. It shows that even though that there's super soldiers around, like sam can still hold his own like. Obviously, the narrative implications of this fight are heavy and that's what and we talked about this before it's one of my single favorite fights in a comic book thing Is the John Walker-Bucky-Sam fight. I love, love, love. It's brutal. This fight is brutal. He literally uses the propulsion from the jets to break John's hand. It is gruesome. I love this fight. But episode 5 kind of halts. You get back to this whole point like he goes to see isaiah one more time and that's where isaiah gives him like they will net, like they're like you're still, you're still trying, like you're still trying to do it. You don't understand.
Speaker 2:He's like no, I'm trying to be better, like I'm trying something different yeah, we can't keep getting in this cycle of you know, we can't keep putting you know a glass ceiling over ourselves.
Speaker 1:Like maybe Other people are already trying to do it. Why can we? Why do we have to do it to ourselves?
Speaker 2:And you know what Sam is reticent Like maybe, maybe you're right, but I have to try. Yep, you know what I mean. And then eventually the Wakandans you know the you know that great Wakandan subplot with Bucky you know moves his way over to Sam and he gets the new suit.
Speaker 1:There's something poetic about it. I just wanted to touch on that. There's something poetic about him getting a suit from an African country. That's so advanced. There's something poetic about that as well, too.
Speaker 2:That's a great point yeah, that's a great point where Steve's original suit was made by the government. The US government, yep, the government.
Speaker 1:You're talking to the president of the government. That's how people think John Walker is Captain America, like his supporters. Do Talk to the president of the government.
Speaker 2:But no, that's a great point. Steve's suit was made by the US government and Sam suit was made by Wakanda, which I think is really, really cool. Um, we get a great Sam Wilson training montage with the shield and him like training to become captain America, like training him, like pushing himself as far as he can possibly go as a human man.
Speaker 1:He's proving to himself that he has the, that one's like the physical, like I'm proving that I'm the physical person I can do. I can do this all day, like he's he's developing that intrinsic thing that made c rogers, c rogers I love and then like, and then just jump into episode six. I love love and I've always liked that captain america falcon design when it came out, I think it's a really cool design and it played so well and I was so scared.
Speaker 1:I was so scared when I knew that this is the direction they were going to go. They were going to give them the white suit. I was so scared and it looks so good.
Speaker 1:It looks so good in action, great and that episode six, and I was just I'm thinking about this because I have the episode five fight scene on right now I'll probably kick on the episode six scenes in a second. If this show didn't have so much of a villain problem, this would have been far and away the best show that they had done up until this point, because if you want to use the, the theory, like the logic, like your show, your thing's only as good as your villain, like. If this show had a true great villain to go against him, woof. This would have been this show I still think, is it's. It is, I think, loki my favorite. This is my second favorite show, man. Imagine if they would have had Giancarlo Esposito as Sidewinder for this.
Speaker 2:Ooh yeah. Unfortunately, Carly Morgenthau and the Flag Smashers are just. They don't justify the weight of those final moments where Sam is trying to reason with her.
Speaker 1:There's such a half measure, because that's not the point of this thing. By that time You're over it.
Speaker 2:By that time, yeah and also it's like time and place, Sam, that's kind of how the audience feels. The Flag Smashers don't need redemption Right, Like you know, and then I mean Sharon Carter just kills her.
Speaker 1:And she kills Bartok, and Bartok's time is over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, man, there really is an alternate future where john carlos bozzito plays sidewinder against him, in this show specifically, and well, I mean at the time of this show, and then subsequently, like the cat 4, news broke immediately after falcon the winter soldier. That was the plan.
Speaker 1:The plan was for cat 4 to be the serpent society why can't the serpent society just be the only villains of their movie? Why do they keep getting brushed aside? Because Harrison Ford can play Red Hulk. So they get pushed aside Every time. If I had a dime for every time, this would happen. I'd have 20 cents. But why do I have 20 cents? Why do the Serpent Society Justice for the Serpent Society?
Speaker 2:I was just going to say you're a steadfast Serpent Society supporter, is what I'm hearing, mm-hmm. World-renowned terrorists, the Serpent Society Listen.
Speaker 1:I think personally that the Serpent Society has misunderstood a bit the Serpent Society no, don't do it.
Speaker 2:And then he's Captain America. Yeah, he gives a big speech. You got to do better, senator. Look as far that what? No, it's just more of the trade. Oh, okay, sorry, you gotta do better, senator. Look, he's not Steve Rogers yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah that it's rough, and I will say it that's rough man.
Speaker 2:He didn't get the speech thing down yet. He he didn't get the speech thing down yet. He might get there. Yeah, we'll see what this movie brings. Maybe he'll do a speech, but maybe he's not meant to do a speech.
Speaker 1:You know? No, I think he's meant to do a speech.
Speaker 2:You think?
Speaker 1:He can do a good speech, can he? I think he's got it. You want me, come and get me, and he's going to say that to Ereshim's yeah, um, but then.
Speaker 2:But then you know, obviously at the end he takes isaiah back to the exhibit and isaiah got his own room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it I love it so special and we will see isaiah bradley will return in captain maker 4 and hopefully elijah bradley will also return, because I still have that theory that the serum passed through down to him so he still is a bit enhanced himself and then he'll get rid. And then they might recognize that and through the shield files they might recognize that and be like, hey, do you have any of this super soldier serum?
Speaker 2:he's like maybe a little bit, and he's like maybe a lot of bit, and then speaking of out out there theories, I'm still holding on to my theory that the isaiah bradley thing is a false flag from Ross.
Speaker 1:From Ross.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not from the leader, potentially Wow.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think Ross is that evil. I don't think he's that evil. He's one of the Red Hulks, but I don't think he's that evil. Just storing it out there, just keeping that out there. I don't think Ross. I think Ross is being manipulated by the intelligentsia, by Through what's his name.
Speaker 2:The leader, the leader.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's talk Cap 4 for a second. So that's him.
Speaker 2:He's Captain America now.
Speaker 1:And can the Marvel? He's done it. Can the MCU not forget that, please, in this film? Oh my god.
Speaker 2:That's that, please, in this film. Oh my god, that's my biggest fear. I know it's, it's. I don't think it's a fear that'll be alleviated until I've literally sat down and the film is over and I don't see. This is the problem.
Speaker 1:See, I'm having, I'm having quantum mania level questions and I wouldn't have had these, not the mcu run from the past few years, I wouldn't have had these I'm having quantum mania level questions about this captain america movie and it's making me very nervous.
Speaker 2:As we've just chronicled, this character is great. I love this character. I love Anthony Mackie's portrayal. I just hope that this. I hope they put as much love, care, attention, talent, writing into this movie that they have for the three previous Captain America movies. That's what I'm hoping. I just don't know.
Speaker 1:The Fandango interview made me a little bit feel a little bit better, because it seemed like they were having fun, like that's the biggest change, I think, is like they're having a little bit more fun. Sure, but they, I think they understand the weight, I do think the backlog, heavy lifting, lifting. I don't know if they because they did listen to this podcast I think that I think that genuinely they were listening and they said, like the avengers thing guess what one of the promos just happened the avengers. Like sam, I want you to rebuild the avengers and he basically asked like what happened?
Speaker 1:weren't you the guy that was all anti-avengers the last time he said you guys saved the universe.
Speaker 2:I love that they confronted that, because that could have easily been like a plot hole, a massive plot hole and this is obviously.
Speaker 1:Rest in peace to william. Hurt like you still would have crushed this the same way, but there's something about harrison ford delivering these lines. That's, it's just it's I agree mistakeable I agree he has it like he's got the thing say that again.
Speaker 2:Come on, man. Um no, I totally agree. I totally agree and that you're right. That was. They released that scene and it made me raise my eyebrows a little bit, like maybe, maybe this movie won't be as hulk centric as we might think or it still will be and she hulk. Just well, they could remix the age of ultron end scene and just get, get the new avengers there man, but I wouldn't give for a post-credit scene where he says avengers assemble and it's like a new crew of avengers.
Speaker 1:I think that would be really cool um, I need something you want out of this movie, something you don't want out of this movie, and and something that is going to propel this movie into the future of the mcu um, something I want from this movie I, I, I want I think I kind of just stepped on it a little bit, like I want this movie to be on par with those other Captain America movies.
Speaker 2:Um, I know, the first Avenger kind of gets lost a little bit.
Speaker 2:That movie's pretty good, that movie's really really good. Um, so I just hope that pretty good, that movie's really really good. Um, so I just hope that I hope they didn't just take their foot off the gas because chris evans isn't in this one. You know what I mean. Like I hope I hope they made, like I hope they, I hope someone somewhere sat down and watched those other three captain america movies and we're like now we gotta, we have a legacy. You know, kind of in the sense that, like sam is upholding the legacy of actual Steve Rogers' Captain America, julius Ohna is kind of carrying the legacy of Captain America the film franchise, and I hope I mean I don't wish this weight upon him, but I hope he, I think he understands that. I hope Marvel gave him the resources and the freedom to live up to that.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean I think harrison ford might help with that a little bit, because harrison ford seems like he's for the creator versus he's for the studio.
Speaker 2:He's also very protective of anthony mackie, yeah, yeah, well, did you see that that little clip when she the interviewer and you know she didn't mean anything by it, but she was like how does it feel like being in a movie, like with the black Captain America? And he was like he's just Captain America and he's like better than that.
Speaker 1:He's Anthony Mackie and I'm like Harrison Ford's awesome dude, they said it in all the stuff that they tell and I love how like uncoy that Anthony Mackie is too. Like Anthony Mackie just kind of speaks his mind. He still has like his PR training that like Evan Evan just can't get and I love it. It makes him so much more pure but like he still is just him, that's just still Anthony Mackie. And all the interviews too, and but like you see, they're like telling stories like Harrison's. Like I just invited everybody out for a drink after the set. I told out for a drink after the set. I told I it's, I'm on the set with them and you're talking about one of the single most famous as mo capping. I can't, I couldn't believe it he's mo capping the red hole.
Speaker 2:He's over 80 years old. It's awesome, dude. It's amazing. I love how into that I didn't when this happened. When this happened, I just I just did not think I thought he was and he's admitted as such that like the check is nice. But like I literally thought he was and he's admitted as such, so like the check is nice, but like I literally thought he was, I thought we were going to get. I thought he was going to mail it in Mm-hmm. Be perfectly honest with you, it does not seem that way. No, he seems like he's. He's really. What turned me around was the Comic-Con thing. Yeah, when he showed up like the red Hulk and he like yelled and I'm like what is happening? He's, he's really trying. Yeah, he is.
Speaker 2:I love it, and I think a motivated Harrison Ford injected into this movie could elevate it to something really really cool.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Harrison Ford is the thing that you're excited about, or that you you really want them to really get after. What's one thing that you're like? No, we got gotta make sure this doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:I think we've talked about this point for months and it's don't lose Captain America in the Captain America movie. Don't turn this into Hulk. Where's?
Speaker 1:the Hulk. Even in Avengers 2.5 Civil War. That was Captain America's Civil War.
Speaker 2:That was still a Captain America story To the point where we've talked about it before where Captain America says Iron man is the antagonist. Yes, he is. They made Iron man the antagonist. Iron man is not a hero or protagonist of that movie, he's the antagonist. To the point where the final fight is not Captain America vs Zemo, it's Captain America and Bucky vs Iron man. So I hope Sam does not get lost in this movie. I really need that to not happen. Then what was your third thing?
Speaker 1:The future of Marvel. What's your big theory coming out of this movie?
Speaker 2:I mean the Avengers have to be formed, I think, or at least concepted Team. Maybe he throws papers down on a desk in a post-credit scene, just like avengers.
Speaker 1:One of like this is this this is who we're thinking for this team. Who's your team?
Speaker 2:uh, I think thor has to be a perma avenger. Um, I think captain marvel has to be involved in some capacity. I think sh Shang-Chi has to be there for sure. He was too important in the scope of whatever that was at the end of Shang-Chi that I feel like he has to be there. I do think She-Hulk will be there in place of Banner. I think Banner will be like.
Speaker 1:I'm out of the game man, but I have somebody that can do exactly what I can, and she's better at it than I am.
Speaker 2:Sorry nerds, yeah, she-hulk. Oh no, it's the Woke Hulk again.
Speaker 1:The Woke Avengers. My Woke incel bit is back. She-hulk Black Captain America.
Speaker 2:Wasp. I can't do this. Um funny enough, like I don't think dr strange is there? No, I don't think. I don't even think spider-man is there?
Speaker 1:no not because they're all gonna be avengers by the secret wars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean like a team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I'm talking like Age of Ultron, like post-credits scene, like yeah, I'm trying to because I'm I think I don't want to step on yours because I think yours is going to involve the Thunderbolts, like pitting those two units against each other. So I'm trying to think like who's facing who? Like obviously Thor is not facing the Thunderbolts, he'll pace them all, but like he's gonna be there, like when they're like Shit, the universe is ending. Thor's gonna be like I'm tagging in, like you don't tag Thor in until, like the world is ending, you don't tag Thor in to fight the Thunderbolts. Who do I got? That might be it. Little, small, little team. Captain America, she-hulk, shang-chi, um, captain Marvel, and that that might be. That might be it.
Speaker 1:Little team, little team, little team to carry on into whatever happens next um, my thing I need, I need, need, need, need, need to happen in this movie is them to. What I was really thinking about, too, is I need this to. I just it's the same thing. I keep saying I need it to still be in a semblance of a film, like I don't, I don't need like any crazy amount of Easter eggs, I don't like I need like tight action, like action, tight action, good narrative it's narratively, I think that's my biggest thing. I need just good narrative from this movie.
Speaker 1:I need a compelling narrative that's not absurd and not insane. I need something character-driven narrative that I care about and that I'm going to care about for time to come.
Speaker 2:Remember why Falcon and the Winter Soldier was so good. Don't lose that sauce in the Red Hulk of it all.
Speaker 1:Because I texted you and I said this movie has to deal with this. You have to deal with, you know, because they won't run away from it. You're going to have to deal with the Captain America. You're going to have to deal with the Red Hulk. You're going to have to deal with the intelligentsia by the leader. You're going to have to deal with Sabra. You're going to have to deal with him training his own running mate. Now You're going to have to deal with Tiamat. We didn't even talk about that. You're going to have to deal with the adamantium in the room. You're going to have to deal with the serpent society in this movie, In a two-hour movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Notoriously this is a pretty short movie.
Speaker 1:Yes For what they're trying to get after. I'll just jump into the thing that I really, really do not want to happen. It's the, it's the serpent society thing. They can't just throw them in and throw them out. You're wasting, john carlo esposito if you do that. That's an absolute, monumental waste. If you do it, because I'm trying to think of the structure of everything, like what I think is like the serpent society is like a contract killing team, and like I think that the leader is going to make sure, like let me take Captain America off the board while I can, and he's going to use the Because I think the first team's going to happen, and then in the middle of the movie he's going to be like all right, can you go murder Captain America? For me, that'd be nice to take him out of here. So it's just, the mishandling of Giancarlo Esposito is a thing that absolutely cannot happen in this movie.
Speaker 2:I agree. Yeah, it's one of the things that we're like. When he got cast, I was like whoa, who's he playing?
Speaker 1:Who's he playing? They said it at that point. This is before the Harrison forecasting. He's got to be somebody huge in this movie, right, he's got to be like. Which villain could he be playing? And then they turn it into Sidewinder.
Speaker 2:Who's due to be in more stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, I know they got the rumors of Moon Knight something Moon Knight related like they were going to let Sidewinder.
Speaker 2:The moon is watching. The moon is watching. Post-credits scene is just Sidewinder and then the moon hovering over him.
Speaker 1:The country rubbing his hands. You know who he would be a good villain for.
Speaker 2:He would be a good villain, for he would be a fun villain for the young avengers to fight like as a team, like whatever john carlo esposito loves beating up kids.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. Like I'd be like him against like some he's already got beef with baby yoda, he would be the best like scooby-doo-esque villain to fight like the young avengers he's already got beef with baby yoda.
Speaker 2:He can. He can also beef with some young Avengers. I would love for him and Kate Bishop to just argue for like five minutes. Why are you so mean?
Speaker 1:You are not Hawkeye. You think some kids can come around and usurp my name aside, the Winders, I am.
Speaker 2:Sidewinder. Why does he do that? Because I fight for the Serpent Society.
Speaker 1:Alright, my theory, some absolute Possibilities of the Weapon X Program by the end of this movie Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Makes a lot of sense Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I mean we haven't really talked about the adamantium thing.
Speaker 1:That goes to my point of like they are putting a lot of different stuff into this movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people, like people, were psyched about that idea and then I feel like people just completely forgot about it Because the Red Hulk's in this movie now Like Adam Antium being introduced in the MCU and it's like kind of getting like okay. I think you know what else I think also kind of did. That Is the fact that we have now already seen Wolverine in the MCU. You know what I mean. So I kind of like took the wind out of the sails, because I just feel like people are like yeah okay, Wolverine's coming, we know.
Speaker 2:okay, Wolverine's coming, we know, you know. So I feel like there is an element of that where they kind of put a hat on a hat a little bit by being like ooh, Adam Antium in the MCU, but then we just already got Wolverine.
Speaker 1:Unless you do an absolute mic drop of Mr Sinister's around pulling some sort of strings, mr Sinister.
Speaker 2:Maybe John Collins' Esposito turns into Mr Sinister at the end.
Speaker 1:No, I know a lot of people wanted him to play something X-Men related and that's why I was so surprised. You know what I think? I think they had a bigger role for him intended, but then they got Harrison Ford. So they were like Harrison Ford, giancarlo Esposito like an ultimate bad win-lose. It's like the worst because it's the biggest win but also the biggest loss, and like I just can't justify a world where, like you get Giancarlo Esposito and he's Sidewinder, that's I can't, no man it's Sidewinder.
Speaker 2:I can't. I can't do this anymore. Diamondback's also in this movie, correct?
Speaker 1:I need it to be the Diamondback from Luke Cage.
Speaker 2:With the weird Helmet, helmet.
Speaker 1:I don't know what happened in Luke Cage man. That first half of the first season was so money.
Speaker 2:Diamondback. What the hell, what the hell.
Speaker 1:What's his name? Seth Rollins got cut from this movie, yeah, and he talked about it.
Speaker 2:He did, yeah, which makes sense. I mean, this movie underwent pretty substantial reshoots, so I guess that does make a lot of sense. But yeah, they had to make more room for the Hulk stuff. Yeah, this movie is all over the map.
Speaker 1:Can we agree on a big thing that's probably going to happen, mark Ruffalo being in this movie? You have all the whole characters in this movie. You're telling me that mark ruffalo is not in this movie?
Speaker 2:it would be really weird if he wasn't in it, which I don't know if that's a damnation of me or a damnation of how this movie was built. But like you have ross, you have the leader. You bet he's in this movie, bet he's in this movie, bet he is in this movie. Nope and nobody. I feel like. I feel like the alien from the moon meme and nobody's talking about this Liv Tyler in this movie and nobody is talking about this. Um, yeah, she is in this. That's weird. Why would they do?
Speaker 1:that? Why would they do that? Just put him in the movie and have him fight with Sam. Have him fight Sam, sam gonna fight, wait Sam with Sam. He's gonna fight two hulks. He's gonna fight Erish and the judge.
Speaker 2:He has to get some practice in he's gonna fight two hulks in this movie what's Hulk worse than him fighting two hulks, them fighting three Hulks.
Speaker 1:Fighting the woke Hulk, no fighting she Hulk.
Speaker 2:What's next? They Hulk. Alright, maybe I crossed the line there it's fine.
Speaker 1:No, you have to do the across the spot. I made a mistake.
Speaker 2:I made a mistake. I made a mistake, man. If they're hiding Ruffalo, they've been hiding Ruffalo this whole time and he's going to be in this that'd be a pretty good reveal. Yeah, Because there's no indication or inclination that he's anywhere near this movie. So if they were able to hide that, that's pretty impressive. The leader, Betty. They brought all the Incredible Hulk characters back, except the Hulk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's gotta be in this movie. How's Sam beating him? Well, and also, which Conk him in the head with the shield, which because I've been trying to piece together all the clips they've been releasing and all the trailers they've been releasing, because they've been releasing a lot Like this one's had a lot, a lot, a lot ahead of the days and I think purposely because you know, this movie just not gonna have the same reverence as fantastic four does, or bolts, I think.
Speaker 2:But I think the cherry blossom fight is like earlier in the movie how early though well, because I think they said like like I don't think he can go from just chatting with ross to him turning into a red hulk to him just chatting with ross again the runtime really bugs me about this movie. Hey man, I know we just had that role outside, but we got to reform the avengers.
Speaker 1:Well, I think the end end scene is the team and stuff, the adamantium. But why? But who's he fighting there? Well, unless the leader is like, well, he's fighting the other countries because the leader manipulates fighting the other countries, he's fighting all the other countries, like, well, he's fighting the other countries because the leader manipulates, he's fighting the other countries, he's fighting all the other countries Because he's the only one that's like, no, they can't get their hands on me. But who is he fighting? It's the Top Gun Maverick thing. They're fighting the, the Rush.
Speaker 2:Like if he spent the first half of the movie fighting our Red Hulk he's gotta be, not in the first half, not in the first half.
Speaker 1:It's like this. The fourth act. Who's he fighting on team island? He can't fight the leader. No, paste him the governments. He's fighting what? Unless sidewinder comes back? No, no, there gets gonna be like sidewinder, because I think one of the clips says like, like, what happened in washington was like a tragedy and they're, they're on the submarine or they're on the boat. So the team and stuff has to be the post like that, not that has to be that.
Speaker 2:So he's just gonna fight a bunch of guys. Yes, it's gonna be like. No, he can't just fight a bunch of guys at the end of the movie. I don't know like because he fought the red hulk in the in the beginning of the movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand how any of this works. That's a weird placement. You've got to fight the random guys first and then you fight the Red Hulk, not the other way around. Because I'll tell you what, if I was one of those random guys and Captain America, who just fought the Red Hulk, showed up, I'm leaving. I'm not fighting that guy, I'm not going anywhere near that guy, unless he's going to fight Isaiah Bradley at the end.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not, Absolutely not. I don't think so.
Speaker 2:The leader's like look at this, the brainwashed Captain America. No, he's too old. Are you ageist right now?
Speaker 1:No, no, he can fight for an old guy? Sure, sure, I want to see him fight. Steve old steve, yes. Joe biden, yes this guy. This guy loves watching the elderly fight that wouldn't be a funny fight it would be they still got a bit of the serum left in them, but they're still old, so it like cancels out that would be pretty good.
Speaker 2:I don't know, man, I don't know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:I don't know what's gonna happen that's the one thing about this movie is, like usually in a movie, that should be a good thing. I don't know what's gonna happen. But now I'm like I don't know what's gonna happen I think it has something to do with spider no cut it out.
Speaker 2:Get another old, another guy with a wingsuit. The vulture shows up. Him and captain america are having like a dog fight in the air. We didn't even talk about Joaquin this whole time. He's got some work to do. I need to see a little more out of him.
Speaker 1:I like him, I like Danny Ramirez. I think Danny Ramirez is great how do you differentiate him from Sam where at that point in the MCU, though, like what makes? What makes Joaquin Joaquin? That's the thing that you gotta ask in this movie. That's a good point. He can't just be a sub-variant conduit. They're both flying guys and they both have similar. They're ex-military guys that go to the symbol of Captain America to help propel them.
Speaker 2:He feels very sidekick-y in the way that Sam didn't. Sam wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's a good point. I'm gonna watch Winter Soldier tonight.
Speaker 2:That is a good point. How do they differentiate them? I don't know.
Speaker 1:You make them a human being? You gave them, but again, this is a two-hour movie. You're already asking a lot out of a lot of people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have. There's a lot of characters in this movie. I have a weird. I think he gets.
Speaker 1:He's going to get sidelined. I think quite a bit sequences, but like what makes him different?
Speaker 2:otherwise he's gonna be like yeah man, go, sam, go. Like that I think I don't know where else he fits, to be perfectly honest, into this in this movie besides sidekick and like it's unfortunate, like what's your thing?
Speaker 1:like who are you? What's your thing? What do you do? I want to know who you are. That's captain america's the fourth yeah, I'm like I said.
Speaker 2:I think the last couple weeks have massaged my, my tensions a little bit also.
Speaker 1:Everybody relax about the anthony anthony mackie quote-unquote controversy. What an absurd thing to even think about being upset about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, insane, that's wild. Yeah, I think what's come out in the last few weeks has massaged some of my concerns, but I'm still. This movie, I don't know. This movie makes me nervous. I just I don't know. I truly don't know what to expect. And normally that's a good thing, but it's like I don't know what to expect in the sense of trepidation I'm like I have there. It's because it's Marvel, because if this were any other movie, there are so many red flags about this movie that, like in any other circumstance, I'd be like, oh no, this could be like a disaster. But because it's Marvel and because I trust Marvel and it's a character I really like and Harrison Ford's in it, part of me is like I think this movie might be really good.
Speaker 1:I'm going to stick bold, stake claim on like this movie can be solid. Nice it could be. This movie might be okay, Like you got to kind of get, kind of get into the realm of how you think about so let me pull this up quick.
Speaker 2:I have my Marvel MCU rankings.
Speaker 1:And I think ours are very, very similar. There's differences, Like I have Eternals at 1.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's differences, but like so when you say this movie might be solid.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let me get my ranking out too.
Speaker 2:So when you say this movie might be solid, right, are we talking? Because, like in the middle of my pack, here I have the two Doctor Strange movies, captain America 1, spider-man, far From Home, eternals Like that. Is that what we're talking about?
Speaker 1:Like that kind of range. Okay, so I might have to also re-rank these movies, because times change your mind, but my fear is that this movie is going to ride along the lines of, like Thor one, Ant-Man and the Wasp Hulk the worst.
Speaker 2:So it's like at the like, not the bottom, but like the like approaching the bottom Right, cause I have like, in that kind of rain, have, like the marvels, ant-man, one thor, love and thunder, incredible hulk ant-man and the wasp, like that yeah, my true fear is that this movie is going to get down to the ant-man quantumania love and thunders like thor the dark worlds, like that's my true fear.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have to really re-rank this because I personally think I have captain marvel a little too low I think I also have a little too low looking at it. Yeah, a little too low. I think this is gonna sound insane. I have iron man 2 and 3 a little too low I have iron man.
Speaker 2:No, I think I have iron man 2 in an appropriate place I have the marvels a little too high after re-watching that movie. I think I have that movie, probably properly placed.
Speaker 1:I have it a little too high.
Speaker 2:I have Thor 11 Thunder way too high.
Speaker 1:I have it. I think it's the second worst Marvel movie that there's ever been.
Speaker 2:I have it way higher than that.
Speaker 1:I think it's funny because I was so excited for both of those, but I had Quantumania and Thor 11 Thunder in my bottom three. I think that's some of the worst that you can get out of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I have to re-rank these two, I think.
Speaker 1:Black Widow, I might have a little too low to.
Speaker 2:I have Black Widow as the second worst.
Speaker 1:Maybe it needs to belong there, because I have to think about the other movies, Like I think I might have Guardians 2 a little too low.
Speaker 2:Where do you have guardians to 14? I have an 11.
Speaker 1:I think I have a little too low. I see, here's my nuclear take. As much as that movie is fun to watch the second half I have no way home. Way too high.
Speaker 2:Where do you have that?
Speaker 1:I have an 11. I have a 13. That's like one of my nuclear hot takes of the mc but I wouldn't put it much lower than 13, no no, because that the second half of that movie, even cameo fest aside I have like a fun.
Speaker 2:So for perspective, I have no way home above avengers one.
Speaker 1:I do too deadpool and wolverine I oh, that's the movie I didn't have, because there's 34 movies. Yes, I have 30, yeah, 34 I have to add, okay, so let me put deadpool wolverine 15th and that was me just kind of spitballing. But 15 is good. Let me add Deadpool and Wolverine in here, and then we'll talk a little bit. I'm going to just put it 12, and then I'm going to just move stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm not moving anything else right now.
Speaker 1:Let me put it 12, and then I'll move.
Speaker 2:I have it 15. It's better than no Way Home. I have them close, but I have no Way Home. Better I have.
Speaker 1:Shang-Chi 12th. I have Shang-Chi 13th because I just accidentally put Deadpool and Wolverine there. I'm putting Deadpool and Wolverine above Thor Ragnarok.
Speaker 2:I have Thor Ragnarok 10th. My top 10 is pretty unassailable.
Speaker 1:I'm putting Shang-Chi above Spider-Man. No Way Home I have.
Speaker 2:Shang-Chi also above Spider-Man no Way Home. My top 10 is pretty unassailable. I'm putting Shang-Chi above Spider-Man no Way Home. I have Shang-Chi also above Spider-Man no Way Home. My top 10, I think I've said this before when we did this last time are pretty unassailable and it's going to take a special movie to be above them. Winter Soldier Winter Soldier 1, guardians 1, avengers Infinity War Guardians 3, civil War 5, black Panther 2, 6, avengers Endgame 7, iron man 1, 8. Black Panther 9, thor Ragnarok 10. I think I've said it, it's going to take a pretty special movie to crack that top 10.
Speaker 1:Fantastic Four will probably get there. I have this otherworldly feeling that Fantastic Four is going to get into this top 3. It might take Guardians 3 out of the top three.
Speaker 2:Oh, you have Guardians 3 in the top three.
Speaker 1:Mine is, guardians 1 is 1, winter Soldier is 2, guardians 3 is 3. And you can toss up some days. For me, there's some days where I think Guardians of the Galaxy, volume 3, is the best MCU movie that's ever been released. That is an absolutely special film.
Speaker 2:I think that sometimes too, and then I'm just looking at Avengers, Infinity War, and I'm like what's better than that movie?
Speaker 1:I have Infinity War 4, I have Civil War 5.
Speaker 2:So we have the same top five, just in a different order.
Speaker 1:Endgame. I have sixth, Black Panther. I have seventh, Wakanda Forever, I have eighth. I'm going to swap that. Actually I'm going to put Iron man in eighth, Wakanda Forever in ninth and I'm going to have Thor Ragnarok in.
Speaker 2:We have the exact same top ten, just in a different order. So, like I'm saying, captain America, I think, falls.
Speaker 1:Which, to be fair, far From Home, needs to go down this list.
Speaker 2:I have in the middle of the pack, quote-unquote, I have Avengers 1, deadpool and Wolverine, spider-man, homecoming, age of Ultron, eternals those are all good movies. So if Captain America ends up there, great. It would be the third ranked Captain America movie for me if it ends up in that spot, because I have Captain America 1 below that mark. So if Captain America 4 is better than that, I feel like that's a pretty good success. We'll revisit this ranking after next week. We'll place Captain America 4 Brave New World amongst the pantheon of Marvel movies.
Speaker 1:I am just praying to God it doesn't get in that last five range. Oh Lord, I'm hoping and hoping. I'm very scared.
Speaker 2:But we'll see. We shall see that's going to do it for us this week while we mull over our MCU rankings. You can follow us on Twitter at ProjectIneve underscore pod. You can follow us on Instagram.
Speaker 1:That's the Project Infinite pod.
Speaker 2:It's never usually that early. I know I forgot the other two things TikTok and YouTube at the Project Infinite podcast. Going to get more active on TikTok now that it's not banned. I stayed away from the TikTok posting for a while because I didn't know if it was going to be a thing anymore, but it's probably still a thing. So I'm hoping to get more clips up there because the Joker clip did pretty well on TikTok. Then why'd you make the movie? Why'd you make the movie Todd Phillips?
Speaker 1:He's never, the Joker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, next week we're gonna talk. I mean, we don't crazy enough like we don't have a whole lot of stuff to talk about the Super Bowl, because all the trailers we thought we were gonna get we got. So I don't know maybe we just talk about our favorite sports movies we could do that, or we could just hold off on doing an episode until after we see Captain America and just do an episode either that Thursday or Friday, and maybe just do Captain America next week.
Speaker 1:You guys aren't going to be ready for the straight out of theater reactions. Those are the ones that we're going to start doing, those the straight out of theaters. We're going to just interview people outside of the theater.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what did you think of the black Captain America?
Speaker 1:They made him he's what so?
Speaker 2:yeah, maybe that's just what we do, unless something happens during the Super Bowl that just no Banes here.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's review the Dark Knight Rises. Next week We'll do a retrospective on the. Actually, we'll just do a retrospective on the football field scene from the Dark Knight Rises.
Speaker 1:It'll be the longest episode we've ever done.
Speaker 2:It's going to be pretty tough to top that Shogun episode. That Shogun episode was pretty long. So yeah, maybe that's what we do. Maybe we just hold off and do a late release next week and just do Captain America review, because we're going to do one anyway. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Maybe we'll come up with something to do early next week before Captain America. Until then, from me, from the Careful man. You know what, go ahead. I wasn't going to do that. I was going to do a Fantastic Four related one.
Speaker 1:No, you can do it, go ahead. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1:I'm giving you permission this week.
Speaker 2:No, that's a trap. No, go ahead. Nope, nope, nope. From the Reed Richards of the podcast no, that's not a good thing, yeah, it is. No, it's not. It's a fine thing. He's a piece of crap. No, no, no, no, no, you don't have kids yet.
Speaker 1:It's fine, reed Richards canonically is a bad person. He's a bad dad. He's a decent to bad person. I love this being. The hot take is that Reed Richards is just no good.
Speaker 2:He's a bad dad, but he might be okay as a person.
Speaker 1:He's the Captain America. Brave New World of Persons in america. Brave new world of persons he might be okay.
Speaker 2:He's a middle of the road person, he's a genius, he's a phenomenal hero. You are the reed richards pr version reed richards of the podcast, who is a great person. He has dinner at seven every sunday. You think the john walker like no matter what.
Speaker 1:You think that John Walker cultists would like to read Richard's Lovers? Do you think those people interact on the internet and they're just like See, this is like where? I no, because they're all from the 60s. This is where, oh no, this is all. They basically should be from the 60s for the John Walker ones too. But this is why I like the idea. This is why I like the idea of like the oh man, what if they did set that in the 60s and John Walker takes the shield a few years later in the 60s?
Speaker 2:We gotta go, man, we gotta get out of here.
Speaker 1:We didn't even talk about Jeffrey Wright's the Watcher. That's gonna be in the Fantastic four probably that'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 2:What the hell is this?
Speaker 1:airshams. The judge is gonna be in this movie stop stealing my bit.
Speaker 2:Airships I can't wait for airship to show up in the thunder. He's not gonna wait. No, you switched movies. No, he's gonna be in all of them. Oh yeah, he's going to be in every single Marvel movie, just like this.
Speaker 1:What did you guys do to my son? You killed Tiamat. I killed my son.
Speaker 2:You killed my son. He brings freaking Captain America up there, like he did with the other Eternals.
Speaker 1:Captain America's. Just like you want me, you want me.
Speaker 2:Come and get me Hulk. Who have the thunderbolts. Is he taking up there?
Speaker 1:ghost, ghost, yeah ghost is gonna be like what, what's going on?
Speaker 2:she vanishes and Erisham's like what? What Erisham, erisham literally creates the Eternals is bamboozled by, by invisibility. How did you? What did you?
Speaker 1:no way, how did you learn what did you no way? How did you learn this power?
Speaker 2:I must know this power. He didn't To be fair, he didn't make an eternal luck advantage.
Speaker 1:He said, dude, what? No, he's literally like why didn't I think of that man Dang it.
Speaker 2:I'm Aresham the Judge.
Speaker 1:I'm not Aresham the Smart One. I didn't think of that, damn.
Speaker 2:Are we ever going to see those characters again? No, no, we're not.
Speaker 1:There was a time where we would have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's not this day. All right, guys, we'll see you next week for some random thing, or we're going to review Captain America when it comes out. Until then, goodbye Peace.
