The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
152 - Thunderbolts* Review: A Broken Team Faces Their Inner Demons
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In a superhero landscape often dominated by world-ending threats and cosmic battles, Thunderbolts* emerges as something refreshingly different – a deeply human story about damaged individuals finding strength in their shared vulnerability. Jake Schreier's film assembles an unlikely team of super-soldiers, assassins, and outcasts, each carrying their own psychological wounds. Florence Pugh's Yelena Belova, haunted by abandonment and isolation, forms the emotional anchor of this narrative. What makes Thunderbolts* exceptional is how it transforms a comic book concept into a powerful metaphor for mental health struggles. Lewis Pullman delivers a breakout performance as Bob Reynolds, whose battle with "The Void" – literally his inner darkness manifested – offers one of the most poignant examinations of depression and self-doubt ever depicted in a superhero film. When the team ultimately rallies to help Bob confront his demons, the message resonates far beyond the fantastical setting: we're stronger together than alone.
By the time these broken individuals transform into something resembling a team, you'll find yourself invested not just in their next mission, but in their collective healing. Before everything Thunderbolts*, we take time to recap Episodes 3 and 4 of The Last of Us Season 2! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:10 The Last of Us Episodes 3 & 4 Recap
27:25 Thunderbolts* NON SPOILER Review
55:41 Thunderbolts* SPOILER Review & Discussion
01:25:33 Post Credit Scene & Future Speculation
01:46:20 Awards for Thunderbolts* & Final Rating
02:11:44 Signing Off, Final Thoughts
Topic for Next Week: Andor Season 2!
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It's the.
Speaker 2:Infinite Podcast. Go tell your friends, it's the Infinite Podcast.
Speaker 1:My God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Rob and Kork the Cube.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, a podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom for movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We got you covered. I'm rob. I'm here, as always, with court, court. How's it going, man?
Speaker 1:doing well, doing great. Just saw a top three marvel movie of my time he's starting.
Speaker 2:He's starting top five. He's starting. Definitely it's a top 10. It's definitely top 20 I would say top 36.
Speaker 1:It's definitely in the top 36, for sure it's in the top 35, thor love and thunder is automatically out is it better than ant-man quantumania? Yes, we will answer those questions. No, it's answered. We don't know for sure.
Speaker 2:We do know it's yes but yes, uh, this episode is all about the thunderbolts or the new avengers, whatever you want. Just spoil, no, no, no, they spoiled it themselves. They did so. Whatever you want to call it, that's what we saw this weekend or this past week, and, yeah, we're going to talk about everything about it. It was, I think, everything that it was advertised to be.
Speaker 1:It really was.
Speaker 2:Which is, you know, we said this.
Speaker 1:I think we really said this when they released that, like we're doing an actual film trailer and we were like, if you're gonna do that, you better back it up. And they did they really did.
Speaker 2:So we're gonna talk about the Thunderbolts, everything involved writing, directing characters, all that stuff, because it's definitely you know, it's one of those ones that, like, I don't feel like we're obligated to talk about. It's like one that I really want to talk. You know, it's one of those ones that, like, I don't feel like we're obligated to talk about. It's like one that, like, I really want to talk about.
Speaker 2:You know. So I don't think we're going to be at a loss for things to say. But first, we really truthfully don't have much news to talk about. So we were just going to talk about the Last of Us again, much like we did last time last season, right, where we were just like, eh, might as well just talk about this thing, right. So episode three and four have come out since we spoke last. The show continues to be really really good, really high quality production. I continue to really enjoy the insurgents from, you know, from the game. You know not the differentiations, but just the expansions on stuff from the game. You know the, not the differentiations, but just the expansions on stuff from the game.
Speaker 2:Um, that episode three in particular, I thought was really good um, because I think it was neil druckman that said it and like kind of like the post show, um, because of the nature of the game, the narrative of the game, like they never really got the chance to mourn joel and like really show that loss. So you get that one little bit where you're in the house, um with Ellie, but in this you really saw a the aftermath of Joel's death be the aftermath of the attack on Jackson and like how the community kind of rallied together and rebuilt. And then you get this really interesting quandary of you know, valuing the life of one person versus the community. Um is really what theme kind of emerges on episode three, and I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 1:You know what makes this truthfully a special season of television so far for episodes in is.
Speaker 1:You know you're begging the question and it's what you play in the game and it's always my argument when I talk about the last of us right, especially part two is loss sucks, it hurts, it's never good and nobody ever wants to go through it.
Speaker 1:However, we all go through it and I think they're doing a great, great job accentuating that. You know, understanding that ellie's emotional journey that she's going on right now, like the flow of joel through jackson, will never be as impactful of his. You know of what he did to ellie and you know but it's such a great backdrop to see how this town is affected, like that's how important he is now. Multiply that by a hundred and that's what she, that's what Joel meant to her and that's why it stings so bad. You know, and that episode three, like episode two was, you know it was the episode and you know to backfill that with episode three and you know that's the fallout episode especially, and you know it did such a great job of understanding this. You know the through line that people grieve differently, like you see Tommy trying to be strong and go forward and people are complaining that that's not game. Tommy, I said I think he'll get there, like I think he's going to break it.
Speaker 2:So I think he's already there?
Speaker 1:I do think he's there. I just think he's trying to put up the front that he's not there, just in the sense I mean. I also mean like I think he's literally there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like I think we're going to get the reveal that he's been in Seattle. Right, you know, I think is what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Right, and you know I was talking to you about this before but Isabella Marced as Dina, you know you want to talk about bolstering your character from the game. I think Isabella Marced takes that and just revolutionizes it. She is phenomenal as Dina and I mean she plays off the youthful exuberance of which Ellie has as well too. I think the game, you know, I think there's a bigger level of maturity in the game. I think it's refreshing that they're still you know they're 19, 20, however old they are, they're still kids that like you feel, like they're like in that post teenage stage of their life where they think they have everything figured out, they think they're bulletproof, they think they're invincible, but then the real life stuff starts happening.
Speaker 1:Like you know, dean is pregnant. You know Ellie's going through this major loss. Dean is also going through this major loss, like those things that start happening the older you get and the older, the more you get into adulthood. Like it's one of these unsung things I don't think people are really realizing. I think they're doing a really great job at, and I mean the performances are just, it's just masterful. You know, you know, and it all, to be honest, it all starts with bella ramsey, and you know her leading this and and how strong, how strong they are, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think your point about isabella marcetta is one that we kind of clocked after the first episode, when, like her first scene, you're like oh yep, like she's gonna be like the darling of this, yeah, of the season, which is great because dina in the game is is well written, but I wouldn't necessarily say she's like a standout or like this kind of like fan favorite character, whereas isabella the way is I said I think I said it when we talked about the first two episodes like she comes across as this, like fun, loving, like lighthearted, like almost like post-apocalyptic hippie Right Kind of Like. She just has this vibe to her that like she, she brings. She's a great contrast for Ellie.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious to see how, obviously knowing the story that unfolds between the two of them, I'm curious to see how her character evolves also throughout the rest of the show.
Speaker 2:And then episode three also is spearheaded by this town hall meeting where they, which, again, is not something that we see in the game, where the town literally puts up the council votes on this kind of like motion to send a party to Jackson to get revenge for Joel's death. They let everyone who wants to speak speak and honestly, like every side makes a good point, right. You know, I know there was that one woman that spoke where she was. Like you know, we all love joel, like we love ellie, but like we're still recovering as a community and like you know, we can't send 16, like what, if, what, if we get attacked again, like what you know.
Speaker 2:And then ellie pipes up with this. You know, I thought it was funny, like she tries to be measured and she tries to be appeal, but like that's not ellie, no, and like everyone kind of realizes that I think the one part that really was ellie was when she spoke to maria right kind of directly, when she was like you are a prosecutor, like you used to do this right, like justice is what I want. I don't want revenge, but, like everyone, the only person that seems to like understand ellie's perspective funny enough, and I kind of like this insertion was seth. You know, I don't know if we can can even call him Seth the homophobe anymore Like he. You know he he kind of showed a little once a homophobe, always a homophobe.
Speaker 2:He showed a little something this last episode.
Speaker 1:I mean it's the understanding. He said the argument is compelling. He said you know, if we let them do it's a, now they're gonna do it. Somebody's gonna do it to us again. Like we have to show the power of jackson, we have to show how formidable we are. Like we can't just stand, you know, we let a man like joel miller just die for nothing. Like we have to stand and show that we are, you know, we are jackson. Like this we mean something. And like nobody can just walk in here and do whatever they want to us, whether that be the infected or other people I thought he was going with them at one point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he might have. He has that limp now. I was like wait. I was like are we going to get an extra companion here? Is Seth going to die early?
Speaker 1:He could have died early, he's just an added companion.
Speaker 2:I was not expecting that. And then the town votes to strike down the motion and Ellie's like well yeah. I'm going, I'm going myself and I'm going out there because I'm an Avenger, yeah, and then they kind of say goodbye to Joel on the way out and they end up in Seattle Like I was really curious, I was curious.
Speaker 1:Dog, that scene where Ellie goes to Joel's grave. I hate you, Craig Mazin. I hate you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because you always the tether of the first part, like the story is like these two are bonding, not just because of the father-daughter relationship but because they truly are kind of like the same type of person and you're kind of seeing ellie adopt that like I. Never really it's funny, like I. There was symbolism in the game that I never really caught until I saw it in live action. It's the scene where Ellie opens the box and it's Joel's watch and then his revolver underneath it.
Speaker 2:You can really weigh that, as the watch represents Joel's humanity and the gun represents the person that he tried not to be but was always drawn to. Like I said, it didn't strike me in the game because the game obviously forces you to take the revolver, because it's like, oh, you know, like I said, it didn't strike me in the game because, like, the game obviously forces you to take the revolver, because it's like, oh, you unlocked a new weapon. You know what I mean. But in the show you kind of like take yourself out of it and you look at the actual symbolism there, where she bypasses the watch and grabs the revolver because that's the person that she wants to be. That's the person Even going back to when she first meets Joel in season one, when he beats the crap out of that Fedra guard.
Speaker 2:Ellie's kind of into it, right, you know what I mean. So we're starting to see that darker nature emerge from her. And it's funny. We're going to talk about the Thunderbolts and we're going to talk about darker natures, but that's what's happening with Ellie, right? And then? So I mean, episode three is great, obviously, we get to Seattle, we get the introduction of the Seraphites. Briefly, how do you feel about? Does the Seraphite stuff that they've done so far feel like of those who know, those who don't know?
Speaker 1:I don't. I wouldn't even take it as that. I think I take it as more of the you're getting the through line of the cycle of violence. Like you know, the subtlety is not too subtle. Like yeah, because Jeffrey Wright also throws around, like Isaac throws the line out. Like you know, we started it. Who started it? I don't care about this BS. Like let's like, let's get on with it. Like that's the truth, like who started this? Like same thing for Ellie, same thing for Abby who? Like same thing for Ellie, same thing for Abby. Who started this?
Speaker 2:Like we can say that Joel started this.
Speaker 1:We can say that you know why were you operating on Ellie in the first place. We can say, you know why were us on the path of violence, like on the cycle of violence, who got us here? So I wouldn't even take it as that, I think. I just think. I take it more as like it's a he said, she said game, like you know I thought it was done really well too.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, episode three kind of you're introduced to the seraphites, which I mean you don't know that's what they're called, but like we know what they're called um and then they get massacred right and you're like these wlf guys are no good. And then you pivot to episode four where you see what the seraphites have now done in the radio station and you're like jesus christ, it's almost like.
Speaker 1:Perspective is one of the most important tools in filmmaking. Isn't in storytelling, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:um, so yeah, I mean they. They get to Seattle. And then episode four has a lot of really impactful moments, starting with, obviously, the introduction of Jeffrey Wright as Isaac.
Speaker 1:I thought you were going to say the introduction of Josh Peck.
Speaker 2:Josh Peck. What are you doing here? What are you doing here? I saw someone post the said Josh Peck in the Last of Us, and then it was that meme of the polar bear in Arlington Texas.
Speaker 1:But, yeah. He was the perfect federal soldier for lack of a better term. Yeah, like this hyperbolic, humorous ridden like bro the apocalypse dude. Yeah, nothing to me. Like just a giant these people think they can do whatever we want.
Speaker 2:He's the guy from high school that grew up to go into the military.
Speaker 1:You and John Walker Kind of Three-time state champs.
Speaker 2:Go, bears I don't know why he needed to say that they were talking about their childhood teams. We get Jeffrey Wright obviously as Isaac, which is something I know. You and I both have been waiting for this as soon as it was announced that he would be returning. We've been waiting for this as soon as it was announced that he would be returning. Funny that, like people who obviously didn't play the game, didn't understand the fact that Jeffrey Wright was already in the game.
Speaker 2:They're like they got Jeffrey Wright to be in the video game, like yeah, and now like it just feels good that like the whole time we were going through this process of this season 2 being made, they were like surely they have to get Jeffrey Wright back as Isaac, right? And then Neil Druckmann was like yeah, this was the one casting that we needed to do. And I'm like, yeah, of course I agree because, as opposed to every other pretty much every other character from the game, jeffrey Wright did the mo-cap for Isaac, so age was never an issue the look was never an issue.
Speaker 1:You know, the look was never an issue. Like he could just come up into playing Isaac, actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then obviously he brings his, you know that unique gravitas that only Jeffrey Wright can bring Um and he's incredible.
Speaker 2:Um, I love that we're getting this much Isaac early, right, um, cause he's not, comparatively, he's not in the game a ton. Funny enough, he really only serves as an antagonist to Abby at a certain point. So it's really fun to see him and I'm interested that they're introducing him this early, when it doesn't feel like we're going to really see Abby again until maybe the end of the season, right? So I think it's interesting that they are bringing Isaac in to kind of it almost feels like they're bringing Isaac in to make you hate the WLF more.
Speaker 2:Sure, yep, because I think. I think what I'm thinking is they're going to eventually drop the other shoe and that, like, abby and Isaac are kind of clashing.
Speaker 1:Right Yep.
Speaker 2:And you're going to. That's when you're going to be like, oh, like.
Speaker 1:this whole crew isn't like monsters? No, no.
Speaker 2:Like and Abby is kind of like you're. You're kind of like introducing Isaac as a way to make Abby a little less extreme.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Um, which I think is interesting, because right now, what you're thinking as a show viewer is like oh, this WLf group is unhinged, yeah, and they're just all these like hyper violent, just like militaristic people, because look who their leader is right um, and then you know I'm assuming the other on the other foot, you're gonna see that like abby is not totally abby's, you know. You even see it in the first episode. Like abby, whole reason for joining the WLF was literally to get resources.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:They were never really on board with Isaac's entire mission, Right. Obviously they got indoctrinated, Right, Because you see that scene later on where he's interrogating the Seraphite Isaac's like you're a cult and the Seraphite's like you're a cult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep. I'm not going to lie the line that the Seraphite hit him with. He said how many of your wolves have left and joined our cause, and how many of us have left to join you? None. When he put his other hand down, he said I'm about this life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. No, I thought all the Isaac stuff was incredible, it's just backed by Jeffrey Wright.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're talking about an all-time actor that you get put into the show, and I'm obviously talking about Josh Peck.
Speaker 2:Man, yeah, just let Jeffrey Wright cook. Give him a good monologue. Let him cook, literally. Give him a copper pan or whatever the hell he was talking about.
Speaker 1:Of course it doesn't conduct heat the same way. That was a good Jeffrey Wright impression, I'm like ah, I'm learning, I am learning. Anytime Jeffrey Wright's on screen talking about something. I am learning about something. Let me tell you something I'm telling you. I said you think John Bertholdt's always trying to tell us about something. Jeffrey Wright also tries to tell us about something, but he don't tell us he's telling you something. He just starts. He informs you, he doesn't tell you he informs you that man is an informative pamphlet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he brought that. He brought that man out of the van he said get out, get out here, learn something, learn something.
Speaker 1:I'm like all right hand or hand, hand or hand what's the deal with hand or hand?
Speaker 1:she's I what I think it is. I think she was the like founder of the wlf and then the wlf took the Fedra resources because they overthrew Fedra and then Isaac started to rise through the like. The two of them are running it and I feel like her part of WLF is clashing with Isaac's right now, like I think that's what the problem is, and Abby probably leans more with Hanrahan, like this, you know we want to liberate us, like that's what the WLF is like and you know the theme that's going to go with that is they're turning into their oppressors. That's what Isaac's physically turning himself into. He's turning himself back into Fedra without him even knowing, and you know the kid that he saved is literally the definition of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love that they kept that kid around to show like that indoctrination. Yeah, and what Isaac's kind of become in the years since he betrayed Fedra? Yep, I'm super. And I do wonder if they're going to keep Isaac running in the background of the rest of the season.
Speaker 1:I think that would be kind of cool yeah.
Speaker 1:And I wonder, now that we see this side, I hope they give the Scars the same treat, do I? Can I not call them the scars? Is that a slur? Yes, crap. I hope they give the seraphites no, don't cancel me in the last of us universe. I hope they give the the seraphites the same treatment and, like I said, I hope that they find like they actually do. I want to see the mother like. I want to see the inception of what the seraphites were, because you know, josh, josh peck's character was talking about. He said he said, you know, and it was 11 years earlier, she was like I don't know, it was some guy handing out some religious crap, like who cares? And then they turned into the Seraphites, yeah, and it seemed like they were coexisting, like the WLF and the Seraphites were coexisting in Seattle, you would have loved Heath Ledger's the Joker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you would have, yeah, you would have, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:And then I mean obviously, on the flip side of what we get with Isaac, we get with Ellie and Dina. Day one, yeah, but it's very. They're doing the game. They're doing the game. We were wrong. We were wrong. They're just going to do the game, but I do feel like it's paced much better than the game was, because they cut out all the game stuff Because it's a three-day split.
Speaker 1:So day one, episode four.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming episode five. Well, I guarantee you they're going to do a whole episode of flashback stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, I think episode four was day one. Episode five will be day two. Episode six will be the flashback plus the eugene episode. Yeah, so they'll probably tie the eugene episode into whatever the you know, when ellie and joel go on the astronaut mission, and then episode seven will be day three yeah, and then abby will you know, and then abby will come back.
Speaker 1:You know spoilers, for if you haven't played the game, this is your time to get out of here. Three, two, one We'll kill Jesse and Tommy will show back up. And then season three you flip it and you literally I'm telling you literally do exactly what you did in season two, just make it from Abby's perspective. So episode two of season three could still be the same thing, just flip to Abby's perspective. You can do the same exact thing. And then episode three, day one, or episode three will be the fallout of this at the WLF headquarters. Episode four, day one. Episode five, day two. Episode six can be your emotional catharsis, and episode seven is day three. And then season four essentially, you can do Santa Clara in season four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that that feels exactly what they're going to do, because obviously the next episode is Ellie goes to the hospital, yep, where a big moment unfurls there. I hate the stalker so much man. But in this episode we get the take on me scene.
Speaker 1:I hate you, Craig Mazin.
Speaker 2:Which was great. Likella ramsey did an amazing job oh yeah doing that. They're phenomenal.
Speaker 1:As ellie, and then again to you, like the isabella marseille point, like her just expressions in that scene she looked like she felt, like you know how good of an actor you need to like, accentuate falling in love with somebody and express that in a moment. Like that's a moment, yeah, and like that's what falling in love is. It's like a series or it's one moment that it happens, yeah I was just she's, so she's magnetic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no other way to say it yeah, it's amazing like everything. And then we get to the WLF radio tower and that harrowing sequence with what the Seraphites did to those WLF soldiers. And you're like holy shit man, and they used real people for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they did they used stunt people for that to obviously make it look more real, people for that to make it look, obviously make it look more real. Um, and then you know, I, you know I see the complaints about like, oh, like in the game, like the wlf radio tower was this big like action sequence where you kill 50 million wf soldiers. I'm like that's not practical, like for a tv show like ellie can only do so much that you know you in quote-unquote real life from the game. So like, yeah, like her killing a couple of WLF soldiers is probably better than her killing 50 of them.
Speaker 1:Right, because she's not.
Speaker 2:The game obviously makes it seem like she's like this unstoppable killing machine, but that's because it's a video game.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's the same way, like the Uncharted games, like.
Speaker 1:Nathan Drake. Nathan Drake's a superhero.
Speaker 2:He's a superhero. You kill like a hundred people in like every mission, right, so like. Whereas, like you watch the Uncharted movie and like you know, he fights like a couple guys. Right Like throughout the whole movie. Like that's, you gotta kind of curb your thought there Right and then cue into the subway sequence which, again, this crew has mastered. These infected encounters, not only the infected encounters.
Speaker 1:It's the production design. I was just having a conversation about the show. It doesn't matter what you get. If you're given something, make the most out of it, and this is the definition of making the most out of what's given. The production design on the show is absurdly good, like down to the very last of what's given. The production design on the show is absurdly good, Like down to the very last of the last details. It's insane how good it is. Like that subway looked phenomenal. The WLF headquarters looks phenomenal. Like it's just insane that this is the level that we're getting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild and I would really really strongly encourage everyone who watches these episodes to to um stay for after the after, like the next time on the last of us and stay for, like the, the making of the episode um, because you see how much work goes into um. I think they said they used an abandoned newspaper factory for the subway, uh, set um and it's just, it's awesome, um, and then you get. You get a real feel for, like the infected, are these people in, like these practical?
Speaker 1:outfits yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, um, and then they just kind of, you know they CGI and like the horde, but like it's a good amount of extras that they use Um, and then just the way they shoot these infected scenes I said they've from the like the abby one where she's being chased through the snow was robbed with tension um the whole jackson sequence.
Speaker 1:They've got it, they've got whatever it is, they've nailed it as far as like these infected encounters, you see the terror in the faces, like that's real, that feels like a real terror, like anytime, like you see a horde coming everybody's like oh my this is it, um, and then obviously in the next episode we're're going to the spores, the spores from the Last of Us.
Speaker 2:Which I like. How they are introducing the spores, it feels like the evolution.
Speaker 1:Like the through line, like the quarter steps are evolving. I love it, I love it, it's such an interesting thing, because in a video game you don't really think about it that way. You just think of it as the things you need to kill.
Speaker 2:Well, and in the video game. The spores are in the beginning of the game. Right, and that's what people were always like when game viewers were like well what happened.
Speaker 2:They just changed the infected. But credit to Craig Mazin when they were like we're going to hang on to the concept of the spores and we're going to actually use it as as a signal of and a symbol of evolution, right, um, when, like because that's going to be a big part, you know, assumingly, of the next episode when nora when someone says it's airborne right and you're like oh shit you know, what I mean, like it's a, like you said, it's like an evolution, which I think is really cool, right, and that's going to potentially, potentially spoilers.
Speaker 2:it's going to pave way for what emerges from that hospital, which is something I'm really excited to see how they pull that off.
Speaker 1:I don't know how I think they're going to hold it. Yes, and I think next season Abby's going to, because you did the bloat. I mean the bloater was technically last season, but you had a one-on-one bloater fight. The stalkers were the big addition for this season.
Speaker 2:You still have the shamblers.
Speaker 1:The shamblers, I think you could probably get into this season and then next season. It's the Rat King, which I am not ready to see that in live action.
Speaker 2:I need to see it. I just want to see how they pull it off With. How they pull it off with, like how they I think they're gonna go practical for it.
Speaker 1:I don't think they're gonna cg it like a, like a, an amorphous suit, yeah, like a spider-man 2, like how they did doc ock with the puppet arms. They can get multiple people in that suit. That would be insane.
Speaker 2:I can see them doing something like that yeah, yeah, I just, I'm just technically, I just want to see it. I just want to see how they're gonna pull that off off. But yeah, next episode, episode five, we're going to get the hospital, which is going to be a pretty integral scene where Ellie comes across kind of like Arya Stark style. She's got a list of names and we know that Nora is her first target, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:You're Nora from the new Naughty Dog game Intergalactic, aren't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm just keen to see all that stuff and the continued kind of tension that unfolds from that. Thunderbolts, new Avengers when are the Thunderbolts? What a treat, yeah, thunderbolts, what a treat yeah, this is.
Speaker 1:You know, like I said up top, this is one of my favorite Marvel movies ever, and we're talking about 36 films, 10 TV shows, 3 animated shows, 12, 4 special. Whatever.
Speaker 2:It is this is just a dang good movie point blank period, which is just a dang good movie. Point blank period, which is just really, really impressive, because I know, when they announced this, this had the most working against it when they announced this. Yeah, because it had the why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why are we doing all the super soldiers in one thing?
Speaker 2:And they're going to fight the Sentry.
Speaker 1:They're all going to die. No, they're fighting depression in this movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they really flipped this man in just a way, not even flipped it. Maybe this was always.
Speaker 1:I'm hesitant to say this was always the vision, because I don't necessarily think that it was I think Iger got there early enough for them to switch this, because I don't think the original, I don't think this is the very, very first thought process of what this movie was going to be. I think this movie would have probably looked and played a lot similarly to Captain America 4. I think that you know Iger got there. Iger said listen, what are people clamoring for? It's kind of what we talked about.
Speaker 1:Cinema was one of those things like why can't we just do good filmmaking? Like why can't the directors just cook? Like is this? Like? Why is this such a cardinal sin? You can tell that time was put into this as well, too. This doesn't feel cheap. That was one of the biggest things that I wanted to talk about as well, too. Like utilizing what you're given. Um, and this just feels like new this. Somehow this feels all like old marvel, like somehow this feels like it belongs in Phase 1 or 2, probably Phase 2. This movie kind of fits the feel-wise. But this, over anything that I just said, it's just a good movie Like this is a good film Like this feels like an actual movie, like an actual good, you know, heartfelt action movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So Jake Shearer steps in and directs this. He is probably best known for directing Beef Yep. Also best known film-wise for directing Paper Towns Yep. Good movie, great movie Came out ten years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did come out ten years ago.
Speaker 2:Ten years between his last film and this film, which, um that he's been away from filmmaking this long as far as movies are concerned, but, like um, he did do beef. He did an episode of skeleton crew um this year as well, and you know, apparently he's the one he signed on in 2022 to direct this movie and he was hired after his presentation. That apparently blew away the executives at Marvel Studios, and for good reason, because he, you know, created this, helped direct this movie that you know.
Speaker 1:You know restored the feeling, I guess. Yeah, that's, that's the big thing that I want to talk about. It's like you know, there's that adage like good movies make you feel something, and I think Marvel had a double like. They had like a double try to get that over as well too, especially after Captain America 4. Because you know, we talked about it.
Speaker 1:You talk about Quantumadium, you talk about Love and Thunder and like, then you get onto the side, you look at Wakanda forever, you think about Loki and like what's the through line on both of those sides Like of the pendulum? Right, it's when you let the creators cook, when you let them do why they got this. Because this is like getting the insane promotion at your job right Is to direct a Marvel movie and then, like the corporatize of the job is like not what you thought. Like, if you let me be me, I will give you the best version of whatever thing I was going to put into this and that's what this movie understands. Like you look at cat, like I said, you look, and captain america 4 is a much better movie than quantumania and thor 11 thunder, but production wise, there's a lot of similarities that captain america 4 doesn't probably want to be associated with these two movies, but the thunderbolts lands in that Wakanda.
Speaker 1:What's Wakanda Forever and Quantum Aliens' biggest difference? There was a director at the helm of one of these and there was a studio at the helm of the other one. What's the difference between Thor, love and Thunder and Loki? There was a creative team at the top of it and there was the corporatize at the other half of it.
Speaker 2:We could argue Thor, love and Thunder was a bad example of letting the director cook.
Speaker 1:Sure sure you really can, you really can? And it's like and I'll go back to the studio it's what the studio allowed to happen once they knew what was going on. Like the studio said well, who cares?
Speaker 2:Well, it was a director in Thor, Love and Thunder's case, a director that clearly, for whatever reason, just stopped caring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it. Just it kind of, because I heard like their kids were on set, which is fine, like who cares? But like you can tell, like Thor, love and Thunder was like this, it was like this amorphous, like you know, look, we're just, we're just chilling Like we got. We got $300 million from the studio. Yeah, we can shoot whatever we want, joke around, have fun, who cares?
Speaker 2:around, have fun. Who cares? Where is this? It almost felt like you know, it's something with this movie that like everyone involved had like including like the cast had this not chip on their shoulder, but like almost it is kind of like an agonist to like the characters in the movie like shit, we got nothing to lose yes, we do.
Speaker 1:There's nothing like what who cares? Like, let's just make a movie. Yeah, like the. What's the worst thing that's gonna happen? We play like captain america 4. That's the worst that can happen. The best that can happen is what happened, like in my like a lot.
Speaker 1:There's some people, including myself, that think this is top five to three mcu movie that's ever come out. You know the creative forefront and like, let's, let's pit this for the eternals. Right, like, right, like I really liked the Eternals. I understand a lot of the criticisms of the Eternals. Those criticisms come from what I feel was the studio stepped in on Chloe Zhao. If Chloe Zhao would have made that movie this year, it would have played the exact way she wanted it to play.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you right now this feels like the and you know this movie is not like void of it. Sorry, this movie's not void of the studio probably stepping in and Feige stepping in and saying we need to get certain things moving. Like this movie's not perfect. There's no MCU movie that's perfect. Like there's a handful of movies of all time that are perfect. You know what I mean. But I think what this movie gets right is, jake Shearer said like in, like you said about his pitch, think what this movie gets right is.
Speaker 1:Jake sheer said like in, like you said about his pitch, like clear vision. And the studio said go ahead, like you want to talk andor and what they're doing, I mean the last. What? Episode eight of andor is a 9.9 on imdb, right, yeah, what? What's the difference between andor and the acolyte? Like one. The studio themselves said go ahead, tony gilroy, do whatever you want, I feel like on the acolyte, they kind of let them do it. And then the studio themselves said go ahead, tony Gilroy, do whatever you want, I feel like on the Acolyte, they kind of let them do it. And then the studio said well, this needs to be here, and then this needs to be here, but just remember that that needs to be here and fit it into there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean clearly for this too. I mean there's a clear what the studio wanted by the end of this and it's the new Avengers stuff. What the studio wanted by the end of this and it's the new Avengers stuff. Clearly that was the studio direction.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't feel forced. No, no, no, no, not at all. Like I said, this feels like old Marvel, where it actually mattered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the best example, too, of building upon stuff that you already used, and you know what I think this movie does, honestly, what probably not, maybe should have always happened with the TV show tie-ins, but I think a lot of people are going to see this movie, maybe not having seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and then they see John Walker and they're like shit, let me go back and watch his kind of origin.
Speaker 1:Now, yep, you're going to get to Yelena and you're going to be like I need to watch black widow now, yeah, and for red guardian as well, too, like I need to watch, like you get ghosts. Like maybe I will watch it man man too, and just see her get more of her, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think, I think that I think this movie works on that. I Guardians of the Galaxy and from the Suicide Squad, and I think it did. I think this movie works differently than both of those movies.
Speaker 1:I mean it's thematics and I think this is like I'm going to talk about it at the end, but it's the number one thing this movie gets right is I don't think I've ever seen a theme this realized in an MCU movie before. Like I've never seen a theme as strong as this and as realized as this, seen a theme as strong as this and as realized as this and it's not usurped by like the action or like the set pieces or you know the kit, like the, the, the care, like I'm not talking about like the character work, I mean like the actual characters that you're pulling from. Like I don't think I've ever had a marvel movie, maybe guardians 3, maybe wakanda forever or like just off the bat ones that I can think right now, like that this theme is this freaking strong all the way through, like I've never I haven't seen work like that on this front. Maybe loki kind of infringes on that, but I think wakanda forever's touch on loss, maybe wandavision gets there, um, but like, obviously wandavision, like they don't usurp it by the end of the show but it is a disney plus show at the end of the show's run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but this one it's strong, it's potent, like and you feel it Like you want to talk. Guardians 1 feel Like this one. You thematically feel it, especially by the end as well too.
Speaker 2:And it's buoyed by. I mean we can just kind of run through the cast right now as well too. And it's buoyed by. I mean we can just kind of run through the cast right now. Um, I guess we just start start at the top. Um, with florence pew, who was being pretty, you know, in the early reviews of this movie, was being allotted for her performance and we've seen it yeah, she's incredible in this movie yeah, I mean, like if we really want to get into it.
Speaker 1:Like, like you know to be hyperbolic, this is a top five performance in the mcu's entire run, like for a singular movie, think about it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean for a singular film.
Speaker 1:You want to talk? Performances like I mean. I think me and you will both die on the hill that leticia right and wakanda forever is one of the best performances that we've ever gotten and people take it for granted every day of how incredible that was. Um, You're probably I mean Wanda in WandaVision. You want to talk?
Speaker 2:Elizabeth Olsen in.
Speaker 1:WandaVision Gets up there.
Speaker 2:It's tough because I want to talk about I would. It's the only thing that knocks against it is it's a voice performance, but Bradley Cooper in Guardians 3.
Speaker 1:I'm going to count it because the impact I'll count it. I can probably give you specifically Chris Evans and funny enough, it's in Civil War. He probably gives his best performance in Civil War.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is right up there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you talk about, you know, filling every bucket of what acting is and then her accentuating that theme. I can't stress enough and you know we'll talk about it like how incredible this theme is in this movie and how strong it is. And you know, going to the next person we got to talk about is Lewis Pullman as the, as Bob, which we find out is Robert Reynolds, who we find out is the, is the golden guardian of good. He has the power of a thousand exploding suns. I should have done that in a 1930s voice originally. The golden guardian of good. He has the power of a thousand exploding suns.
Speaker 1:I should have done that in a 1930s voice.
Speaker 2:The golden guardian of good, originally supposed to be Steven Yeun, who could not.
Speaker 1:I think the strikes threw off his schedule so he was supposed to play the century, but it's one of those. You win either way, but you really won because it was Lewis Pullman. I think Real Rejects made an incredible point. They said we've seen Lewis Pull those like you win either way, but you really won because it was lewis pullman, like some, I think real rejects made an incredible point. Like they said, like we've seen lewis pullman and stuff and lewis pullman's been fun and good and stuff, but this is the first time he's really gotten to chew on something. Like he's really got to like actually cook himself and like I want to see what he is as like a front man and like there's this everyman thing he like I don't even want to say every man, it's like this every like young man thing to him.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, there's something familiar about him that I really appreciate what is crazy about that too, like he does that part, but then when you know spoiler alert light spoilers when he becomes the century, he still feels super heroic yes, and I think they do a good job at understanding.
Speaker 1:Like for him, his heroic nature comes like from my point about the everyman. Like he's just like I want to be good because it's okay to be good. Like that's simple. Like that's the simple Superman thing. Like I'm good to just be good. Like that's Bob Bob. Like he just wants to be like a good guy. Like he wants to be. Like Bob's whole thing is. He wants to be someone.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And I mean you go down the list and you want to go to somebody that, like the injection of energy, it's David Harder as Red Guardian and you know he. Finally, there was this line that he had to teeter. Yes, this whole movie of being grating and MCU humor that some people hate goofy, but then, like it's Florence Pugh pulling him out of that, that really gets him there.
Speaker 2:I was extremely surprised, in a good way, at how he and I shouldn't be surprised, because David Harbour is an incredible actor but at how he was able to oscillate between those two mediums, sometimes within the same confines of the same scene. Same scene, um, we'll talk about, you know, specific moments. But like that scene with him and Yelena after the confrontation with century, where she kind of like breaks down and she basically she's like I'm all alone and like you see him like it's like him, as the character also knows when to.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, be dad like. Be dad like I. I'm here, like, talk to me, I'm here.
Speaker 2:And that was I was really surprised by and that goes to testament to the writing that they knew when to pull back from the humor right, and it's something that james gunn really back from the humor, right.
Speaker 1:It's something that James Gunn really got with the Guardians as well, too. Especially when you get to Guardians 3, it's like disgustingly insane how good he gets at it. Yeah, let him be.
Speaker 2:But people are concerned that James Gunn has a Superman movie and let him be Alexi and let him be Yelena's father, instead of him being like the big, I mean, you really get to see it with all of them. Instead of him being like the big, you really. I mean, you really get to see it with all of them, but really with him. You really see that the Red Guardian is his mask.
Speaker 2:Right, because you know much like all of these characters kind of wear their alter egos as masks for what they're going through, which you know. It's funny how we can jump from character to character to character because they all have the same through line Right. Character to character to character, because they all have the same through line which brings us to Wyatt Russell, which is, I think, going into this movie. You and I were both kind of excited to see what, because that felt like, out of all these characters, because we probably spent we spent the most screen time with John.
Speaker 2:Walker because of the nature of Falcon and the Luminous Soldier that was the character that felt like he had the most to chew on and he was great I mean what john brings, what, why russell brings first of all.
Speaker 1:He brings like the. He brings the puff chest like he brings. What you have in your mind is like not steve rogers as captain america, like if you were to tell somebody to be captain amer. I love his misunderstanding of it and how he still has kept it from Falcon and the Winners.
Speaker 2:All that experience that he had and he still doesn't really get it still. But he gets it. Enough that he's like I think he finally realizes I'm never going to be Captain America, but I'm John Walker. It enough that he's like I think he finally realizes I'm never gonna be captain america, but I'm, I'm john walker.
Speaker 1:You want to talk about contrast between two things. Remember what ant-man and the wasp did with? Did with scott lang in that movie where, like this was his second outage as the character, yeah, and like they took him and they kind of turned him.
Speaker 2:This movie could have done the same thing with john, where he was the joke captain america and it felt like there were moments, especially in the beginning of the movie, where it felt like that's maybe where it was going right, but then it doesn't you know who he is to them.
Speaker 1:He's the big brother to them. Like he's the brash big brother that always puffs their chest and like bullies everybody but it. You know, god forbid, somebody talked to them the wrong way. And it's this little moment spoilers for the movie there's this little moment where he's calling him Bobby the whole movie. And then he sees, once they get into Bob's shame room and they see his father used to call him Bobby. He stops calling him Bobby, starts calling him Bob again. That's the guy that you kind of want protecting you. In the end of the day, that guy will keep you sit, like he, once he understands the mission. Like that's that's his mission and his mission is them like there's that moment.
Speaker 2:There's also the moment in the beginning, in the first act, when they're escaping the bunker and yelena's like yelling at him. Like I told you to wait and he's like I did wait right, like I waited, I followed your orders. Like I followed orders and it's like one of those things that also is a great, not a great call.
Speaker 2:I guess it is kind of a call back to falcon the lunar soldier, but like john operates best when he's with somebody yes, when he's not left to his own devices, because then that's when, kind of like, the darkness takes over him like you know, when he's by himself, like when he makes the biggest, I mean he doesn't see it as a mistake, but like when he makes the biggest transgression of his entire life, he was by himself and he was angry and he was sad.
Speaker 1:Well, you see the like, the trigger flip in him, like I love that little bit where you know the plan. They're trying to escape the facility and John's waiting, and he's waiting and he's like, fine, I'll do it myself. And he ramps and he starts to go insane. That's the dark half of John Walker. Dark halves bring about complexity to character. So it's not the fact that he's not Steve Rogers, it's the fact that he is John Walker. And John Walker's a good soldier. He's an okay man but he'll get the job done. That's his first and foremost. Priority is the job.
Speaker 2:That is who John Walker is yeah, um, and then we can segue that right in the ghost, right in the hand of John. Come in as Ava star, which again another kind of character. Again. This whole movie is littered with characters where you're like why are these characters on screen? On my screen again, but man, she's great. And on my screen again, but man, she's great, and she more so than any of these other characters. Up until maybe halfway through the movie you don't really know if she's on board.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Or if she's with them. She's kind of like to make the Guardians analogy. She's kind of like Gamora yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, she's you know, allegory is a funny thing she's not only clinging on to life itself, like keeping herself tethered to this, like they're the reason, she's what. She was alone her whole life. Like she was alone, like she was trapped in, like, fine, she found out her purpose was people. Like she found out her purpose was the steam. It's what Rick Guardian always says. Like it's the team. Like you need to keep this team together. This is where the light is. The light isn't you being with other people. That's how you stay here, that's how you stay sane, that's how you stay okay, that's how you keep pushing forward. And to get to Bob and Yelena at the end of the movie, that's how you keep going. It's people. People help you keep going.
Speaker 2:I mean when you talk about a clear understanding of just physical capacity. The stuff that they do with ghosts in this movie is incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we can move into the action in this movie.
Speaker 2:This is some of the I do want to talk about Bucky before we.
Speaker 1:Oh, I forgot about Bucky.
Speaker 2:Perfectly deployed in this movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard some people complaining about Bucky's complexities and I bought up this point and I'm going to stick true to this movie. Yeah, I heard some people complaining about Bucky's complexities and you know I bought up this point and I'm going to stick true to this point. This is Bucky's first foray to being Captain America. Like this is it? Like this is you're leading the Avengers. Like this is it You're leading this team? And like you know, I love how. You know all the time that, like I didn't get enough out of ghosts, we did get it. We got all of it. And ant-man and the wasp she didn't need the shade room. We saw her shame room. Like we saw her being experimented on as a kid. And her deployment by shield like bucky same thing. We've seen it. For how many years, since 2010, we've?
Speaker 1:seen it for 15 years bucky's, bucky's dark traumas and every and he even makes a joke about he's like my life was great, guys, I'm guided. I nothing in here, I'm good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I also. Bucky is the perfect character for the theme of this movie Because he's the one out of all these characters that has not solved it. But he's gone through this. He's gone through exactly what all of them are going through now and he's come out the other side of it, so he's the perfect one to kind of steer them and be kind of like the bigger brother figure to all of them. Yes, because he's like I've. I've battled my darkness and now look where I am so he's the perfect.
Speaker 1:He was the perfect character to put you know, established kind of character, but you also, yeah, you're telling them you don't need to be this, like this thing that you guys think that you are. You don't need to be that darkness, you don't need to be somebody's weapon. Like I'm looked, I'm double looking at you, walker, you don't have to be somebody. And because you know, walker kind of talks to him, like when he has them tied up and he kind of says, like bucky, you know me. He's like, look at you, like dog, this you're. Like you're the person that your wife left. Like why? Everyone's like, yeah, like why do you? Why do you think that is? Like look at you Like you're somebody's weapon that goes to execute orders. Like you're not a human being right now. Like you need to be, you're me, you're me, you're me a little bit ago, like this is where I am now.
Speaker 1:So I'm super intrigued to such a great job with John Walker as the like the, as you know, the pro, like the post of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Just watching the post credit scene that the Russos did, I hope they don't take John's character and just turn him into a joke. That's one of my fears because it's that like grunt he has as John like, especially throughout this movie, he doesn't lose itunt. He has, especially throughout this movie. He doesn't lose it. He has that little. His first mindset is Valentina said I'm going to kill her. That's him. He's the quick execution move. Yeah, rip John Walker. You would have loved the Punisher he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean he talks about his military background extensively. He's going to find the best solution to a problem you know, for better or for worse. Um, taskmaster, what, what else can you say?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the scene at the end of the movie where she came back and she say just kidding, she died within the first 10 minutes of this movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so not not much out of uh out of taskmaster Um she has an American accent for some odd reason, does some cool stuff. Yeah, yeah, the fight scene and that's such a great flex, like that's the second action sequence in the movie. It was an insane flex like try her out of the gate. That opening action sequence where she I gotta. I'm gonna dive into that scene specifically because it gets the theme of this movie down. Visual, like that's some of the best visual storytelling I've seen out of the MCU.
Speaker 2:But that second action sequence when you know they're all fighting each other, it's perfectly executed yeah, I mean, you see literally what they're all capable of, what their skill sets are right. Um, it's great. You know, it's unfortunate that taskmaster was a casualty of just the internet. The internet and just, I think, just a different direction, and fear For the movie, and they just had to find a way to get her out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they got her out. I love because Schreier talked about like earlier drafts had Taskmaster, like having memory loss issues, so like she really clings to John and like they become buddies and then every once in a while she tries to kill him because she forgets.
Speaker 2:We couldn tries to kill him because she forgets. We couldn't add 20 minutes to this movie and done something like that. Yeah, yeah, probably, um, but I mean they don't totally play it off as like she was disposable, like there is a couple lines like especially at the end, like throughout the movie, where I forget who it is.
Speaker 1:I guess john says something about her and elena's like don't yeah, you don't know her, like you don't know what she's been through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I think Yelena has the conversation.
Speaker 1:I think it's with.
Speaker 2:Ghost later on where she was like, yeah, she had a really fucked up life. Yeah, like you know, like it sucks that she kind of went. So I feel like they handled it the best way they could have.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's supposed to be the worst thing that can happen to all of them. Like this is, like this could be us, like we could be wasted as nothing, or we can be something together. And boy, do they become something. Yeah, they do. Um, so I guess the westchester valley thunderbolt, sponsored by shane's tire shane shane.
Speaker 2:Um, so I guess you know. I don't know if you have any final non-spoiler thoughts before we kind of dig into no, I mean, mean I got like the last non-spoiler thing. Oh, JLD is great in this movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, julia Louis-Dreyfus. Like she's like this perfect antithesis to like all the values that Nick Fury holds. Like she's literally the inverse of Nick Fury, to the best of her ability. I love it she's just a great classic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mustache, twirling like you just want to wring your little neck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she always has like, she just always has a way out of you always think like she's going to get her comeuppance and she just slithers out of it the last second. You're like um, but she's, she's great in this. Yep, that's like again. Like the mustache twirling, I think, is it's been a while since we've had like a classic mustache that doesn't die. Yeah, yeah, because you know, and like she doesn't, it's not. It's not the same as like, say, like kingpin, where, like he has the physicality to back up any situation he gets put in. Where, like her, like she has to like manipulate situations. Right, and she's doing that the entire movie.
Speaker 1:And she's also hilarious well, she does funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's always, she's just charming and great yeah um, and you, just like I said you just every moment she does something. You want someone to just get her right like when she's manipulating bob in the little hospital room. You're like you just want him to get her and he does, yeah, he does get her, which is great, like when she does that whole bit, when she's like you have to listen to me and he goes why? And you're like, uh-oh, god feels no pain oh no, this century's becoming self-aware um, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, all in all, this movie was a really fun ride. I hope it. You know, I hope the word of mouth helps it, because the box office returns have been a little underwhelming. And a good Tuesday bounce back which is good which shows that people are going out and seeing it because, they understand that it's not just not just another Marvel movie, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like no, this one is actually high quality and well made, you know. Finally, a post-credits scene that actually ties into the next movie. Yep, we're finally back to doing that instead of doing. Here's Hercules, for some reason, brett.
Speaker 1:Goldstein, what are you doing here? Make Hercules Thor's love interest in the next movie. Don't be coward, don't do what Fast 10 did, and not make Jason Momoa and Alan Richie.
Speaker 2:I don't think we're ever seeing Hercules again.
Speaker 1:No, don't say that. Are we ever going to see Eros again?
Speaker 2:No, pip the Troll, no. So we're finally back to doing post-credit scenes that just show you what the next movie is. It's been a while since we've done one of those, but we're finally doing that again. We'll talk about that at the end, but yeah. So hopefully this movie continues to do well, because you know me, rooting for big mega corporations is my bag. So I hope this movie. I'm the indie guy.
Speaker 1:I hope this movie does well. This is an A24 Marvel movie.
Speaker 2:It is, they marketed it as such. They did.
Speaker 1:They did the absolute cinematography. They said we're doing an A24 movie.
Speaker 1:Do you want to go through the personnel? Sure, Jake Schreier, who is the writer and director of Beef. Yes, your actors were. Who do we got? I believe Wyatt Russell was in A24 Project. Obviously, Florence Pugh was in Midsommar. Obviously, Sebastian Sam was in A Different man. So that's your actors. You have the director. Like I said, writer and director of Beef. You have the cinematographer of Green Knight, a gorgeous movie. There's one shot in this movie that I can't believe is real. You have the production designer of Hereditary. You have the editor of Minari. What else do we got? We have the composers of Everything Everywhere, All at Once. This is one of the best Marvel scores we've ever gotten. Yes, it's incredible. Shout out Son Lux. Absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2:Talk about a score that defines the characters. Yes, this movie does that. The score does that. I should say.
Speaker 1:Man this film is, so I love this movie. I really, really, really like this movie.
Speaker 2:Spoilers, spoilers. Ahead, we're going to talk about some tings, the Void. We're going to talk about some, some tings the Void. Yeah, let's talk about the Void. So obviously we get you know. Contessa Allegra captures Bob, brings him into Avengers Tower. Who bought Avengers Tower court? Was it Norman Osborn? No, was it the Fantastic?
Speaker 1:Four no, don't do this to me. Don't go back to all the episodes where I said it. They pulled the aerospace engineer from WandaVision back out again.
Speaker 2:Was it Doctor Doom? No, nope, it was Contessa Allegra de Fontaine, miss.
Speaker 1:Fontaine, it's Miss de Fontaine. What was Wendell Pierce doing in this movie? He said we got some stuff to go on capitol hill and it is juicy. Was he doing his best perry white impression? So he can just play perry white in superman? He?
Speaker 2:was.
Speaker 1:Look, he was chewing some scenery yeah, he was every scene he was in that little scene with bucky killed me, or he's just like bucky. You don't need to be the winter soldier, just text me oh man, um yeah, so she's allegra bought avengers tower I love how everybody calls him bucky.
Speaker 2:They don't even call him james, they just eat like these actual capitol hill people are just like yeah, didn't he get into a whole argument with sam when he was like you can't call me that yeah, only steve calls me that right whatever, um sam's got some issues that we've got to talk about at the end of this movie yeah he does Copyright issues. Yep, yeah, so Allegra takes or Valentina takes Bob and she's like you're him yeah, actually, you're him.
Speaker 1:And Bob's like no, I was a meth addict. Bob's got a really sad story, man he does, he does and she's, like you, survived.
Speaker 2:So, basically, allegra's Valentina's been trying to create the Sentry. She's been trying to create basically her own version of Thor that she could control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean she's like, like she said, she's all the Avengers rolled up and they already did that in Secret Invasion man. Why.
Speaker 2:She finds out that Bob survived and she's like oh, I can control that guy I can emotionally manipulate this man and she's like what if I made you this entry?
Speaker 1:and he's like that sounds awesome yeah, this is cool, I finally get to be somebody. And the voice like will you get to be somebody? I don't know about that.
Speaker 2:it's so. It's so sad and it's so tragic that she just latches onto his insecurities. One of my favorite minor scenes in the movie is when they're talking and he's not completely on board and she's like alright. It's such incredible, terrible and incredible emotional manipulation where she picks up the sentry buckle and she's going to walk out and he's like wait, wait, no, he's like my validation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:My validation is leaving. And she's like hmm, and then, yeah, she introduces the sentry in full force and, yeah, he's a problem.
Speaker 1:He is a problem. I mean do you want to theorize about his power set? I have some ideas. I mean do you want to theorize about?
Speaker 2:his power set. I have some ideas. I mean, yeah, but I think your extremist point is good just based on the Heath stuff.
Speaker 1:I think there's a third component in there that's causing the flight and the mind manipulate. Like there's a third piece in there.
Speaker 2:There's something he has, so his powers are basically he's invulnerable, right Like pure, invulnerable. He can't be harmed Right Because they shoot at him, red Guardian stabs him and the knife breaks Mm-hmm, which I don't know if that was him breaking it.
Speaker 1:No, I think the knife ricocheted off his face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's completely invulnerable. Vulnerable um he has some type of pyro like heat, can eat like kinesthesia yeah, where he can manipulate the temperature objects because he does it to the glass of water. He boils the water and it blows up the glass. He melts john's gun um, and he tries to melt bucky's arm, but he can't because it's vibranium right um, and then yeah he can fly.
Speaker 1:But then it's the. It's the other stuff like the, the void stuff, where I'm like what's the third piece? Because I'm gonna stick true with, like I think they took erskine's formula and I think they took the extremis and they mixed it, so those like that would explain the pyrokinesis part and that would explain, like, the invulnerability, because that's what they were trying to do. Like you probably mix that with the super soldier serum making you more durable, that probably makes invulnerability. It's the flight in the void part that I just I can't put my finger on. I was maybe gonna go infinity stone wise of like how it created the scarlet witch, but the infinity stones are gone. So maybe the I don't know, I don't know what it can's something else in that. Like I think they made it ambiguous on purpose as well too, because I think, I think it could be him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the void attached itself.
Speaker 2:but wait, that's what I kind of cause. He's kind of, he's always kind of. He's implied that it's kind of always been there.
Speaker 1:Well, I think they they were trying to say something else with the void stuff. Like I don't think that's. I personally don't think that's what they meant by that, like the void, like I don't think.
Speaker 2:Well, no, yeah, but I think I think it was always there in the sense that like somehow whatever happened to him made the void real, like it was always kind of there as, like his, like you know, he always felt it was like his darkness and then whatever happened to him literally manifested it well, I mean the other person or the other two people in the MCU that can, or seemingly will, be three or after.
Speaker 1:they're fantastic for our Wanda and her son. Like those are the only two, and then you know, presumably Franklin Richards will be the third.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Of them can actually make those things real. Yeah, um, I mean, you want to talk about one of the best character updates that there's ever been. Like who cares that the Void's some interdimensional being or it's some ancient? No, no, doesn't matter. The Void is the darkness that you feel inside of yourself.
Speaker 2:And I even love how it manifested. Yes, in the sense that he was going to take Allegra out, he was going to take Valentina out, and then she had a failsa safe that was triggered by everyone's favorite, everyone's new favorite actor. Yeah, um, where she, you know, smokes the sentry with the kill switch and then he reawakens like cause like the shackles came up. It's almost. It was almost like a whole Bruce.
Speaker 2:Banner sitch where like the void kind of took over because Bob was at commission, right, so he was like I'm here now, yep, and then he just started smoking folks yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was insane. Mayor Fisk said huh.
Speaker 2:Quick send out the anti-vigilante task force.
Speaker 1:They'll take care of this. Oh no, my anti-vigilante task force has been annihilated Not if you ask him after the fact I think Luke Cage could have taken him.
Speaker 2:If you ask him after the fact they handled it yeah, they did handle it, this great city, the void has been tackled.
Speaker 1:Wilson, wilson, the void's been tackled tackled.
Speaker 1:Um, I love the I. I love the fight scene with the century. I just think it's such a smart little ploy because I don't. To me, this is how it played. It's not important that it was in this movie, it's just important that it's out there by the time we reach doom, doomsday in secret wars. It's important that we know that the century is a certified issue because, remember, we were talking about like well, who's gonna fight doc? Like to fight God-tiered Doctor Doom, it's the Sentry, that's who's going to fight him? Sentry, captain Marvel, thor, like you know, maybe we'll save the Doomsday talk for a little bit.
Speaker 2:And I love how they just run. I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like that. They were just like nah man, we're not built for this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That guy's like an actual Avenger.
Speaker 2:We can't do this Like after they watched Bucky get his arm ripped off and get thrown across the room, they're like Nope, no, we're just, we're just getting out of here.
Speaker 1:Y'all. Take it easy, man, I'm out.
Speaker 2:And that's, you know, it segues, it's like one, of course we lost, we're losers, like we suck, yeah. And then you know they kind of break up, yep, and Red Guardian, red Guardian's standing there like what are we doing?
Speaker 1:We can't do this. We can't break up, yeah, like a band, like the Beatles.
Speaker 2:And then segues into that really amazing scene between Yelena and her father where she's like I'm alone all the time.
Speaker 1:I've seen this movie twice. That scene, the second time broke me, broke me the second time I watched it.
Speaker 2:Man, florence Pugh, like you want to talk about performance, I mean, you called this way back when we saw Black Widow, when you were like man, what a get that she's just going to be around in this universe, yeah how old was she when Black Widow came out?
Speaker 1:24 or something like that.
Speaker 2:I think that was 2020.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 2020. Because how old is Florence Pugh now? It's 2020. She's 29, I think, yeah. So you called this back then. Yeah, I was like you, because I see this is what pays off to be an a24 fan. I knew she was cooking yeah, she's 29, so she was 24 when black widow came out and I said you guys don't understand. Like she's a, she's a, she's an actor, actor, she's one of those actor actors yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 2:I mean she just lets that out and she's like I'm alone, yep I'm alone.
Speaker 1:Like my sister died and you weren't there, you left me alone. Like I go home. I go, I get a job, I assassinate somebody, I go home, I drink, I don't feel I do it again and I, my life is meaningless and I mean nothing to anybody and I am drowning and he's like no, you're not. He said you're the actual light. He's like you don't not. He said you're the actual light.
Speaker 2:He's like you don't understand the light that turns on when you walk into a room and then he takes that take that stupid soccer metaphor and breaks my heart about her wanting to be the goalie because she could always be relied on and you're sitting there and you're like. You feel, like how she feels when she's like that was pretty good I'm like, yeah, that was pretty good, like that, he and that's like, that's that switch that we talked about with with, you know, the guardian character it gives you every opportunity to go into the old mcu, just tell a joke to get us out of here.
Speaker 1:But it like it's like guardians 3, like nope, not this time, like you're gonna sit here and feel this yeah, and then it segues brilliantly into like the voids they look yeah, that's not the, you're not the void from Marvel.
Speaker 2:Comics up there are you talk about a, a villain and you wanna talk and also to go with that.
Speaker 1:Lewis Pullman's flip into the void is it's incredible the way he balances.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the type of like, the iterations of this character throughout this movie are amazing.
Speaker 1:He's like a schizophrenic, like it's incredible From Bob, like when you first meet him, not this happy-go-lucky, but he's like dude, everything's good man, everything's great, everything's great. You know, life's just life, man.
Speaker 2:To like the inferior kind of scared Bob Yep.
Speaker 1:To the century. Yeah, it's like this, like the, even before the century, it's like the bob. That's like you know what I can, like the steve rogers, like you know what I can, I can stand up and be somebody.
Speaker 2:And then to the century, to the void to the bob trapped inside the void, which is a different bob from the other it's the kid version of Bob. And I was just like man, this guy, something else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Lewis Pullman. I'll tell you right now, Lewis Pullman's got a. Thanks Bob Pullman, for giving us Lewis Pullman, and thank you, Kurt.
Speaker 2:Russell for giving us Wyatt Russell.
Speaker 1:Is it cool when you're a nephal baby to a really cool dad? Is that why Maya Hawke's cool, hawk's cool? Is it Ethan Hawk?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, great movie. To be sons or daughters of famous actors.
Speaker 1:Who's the next person we can get in there to do this? Jack Quaid, yeah, let Jack Quaid be in the Thunderbolts in the next new Avengers movie. Who would he play? I don't know Me neither. Jack Quaid in the MCU Cyclops. Funny enough.
Speaker 2:No, nah, is he too funny? He's too. Yeah, I don't know if he's too funny, but he's too like Fluid Wiry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's too skittish to play Cyclops.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. And then we get that the Void shows up again and he's like you tried to murder me.
Speaker 1:You want to talk about some lines that were being spit, like in the mcu history, like we talk about thanos and kingpin. The void was giving out some lines. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2:The void was spitting a little bit and then he just starts smoking. Folks, where do you think you're going and then the shadows and you're like what?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's happening here. Wait a minute, this can't wait. Oh no, again, again we're vanishing again I hate new york city so much.
Speaker 2:The anti-vigil, anti-task force is abusing us and it's like this really uncomfortable thing, because you're like is he gone, killing these people?
Speaker 1:right, what is happening?
Speaker 2:um q just a great. We're back. Superheroes, not even superheroes.
Speaker 1:Folks powered folks just helping people right, red guardians loving it. He's like, come on, god, and like man. And that you get back to earlier in the movie where he's like you really wanted like to the point of like he tears the lines. He's like because he has every choice, every chance david harvard does to bow out sometimes and he doesn't. He's like because he has every choice, every chance david harbour does to bow out sometimes and he doesn't. He's like you want to know when I was really happy, when I was in the streets of russia saving people. That's when I was, truthfully, the red guardian, yeah. And then he does it and he feels the glory and it's not for him, it's for other people.
Speaker 2:This movie is a dang good movie and they all, and it's great they all come back together like they all, like individual of each other. They just they each. They're not even a team anymore at this point. Technically, they technically broke up and walked away from each other, but they all saw somebody in danger that they felt compelled to save at some point.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And it's great. And then David Harbour saves this little girl and he smiles at this little girl and then the whole theater.
Speaker 1:When we saw it was like, oh shoot, everyone went. Oh, that was rough, that was tough. You felt that. Yeah, you did, and that's organic, that's an organic.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the last Marvel movie I saw that created an organic scene or moment like that.
Speaker 1:What? Wakanda Forever, where Atuma drags Okoye to the sphere?
Speaker 2:That's probably it. And how long ago was that? Three years ago, that was probably the last time in a Marvel movie that a theater collectively felt a moment, yeah, and that the Okoye moment you're talking about is more like an impact. Yeah, like a ooh.
Speaker 1:Whereas this was like dog and it was also like yo the void's nothing to mess around about.
Speaker 2:Like everyone gasped yeah, like they couldn't believe that this little girl was just smoked you're like Jesus Christ yeah, like what that's not supposed to happen right and like you just see, like the, the look on alexi's face where he was just like he couldn't like that's not supposed to happen. Yeah, like I saved this girl like she's not supposed to die right what did you think she saw in her shade room?
Speaker 1:or in her shame room, who knows?
Speaker 2:santa didn't come, oh no she failed like a second grade spelling test.
Speaker 1:Yeah and everybody publicly shamed her for not knowing how to spell there. I thought it was the other version of there um, and then yeah.
Speaker 2:So like they look up the thunderbolts, they do the one the foe like ah, what is that? Oh no, oh no, it's the freaking, the void the void design is it's the freaking.
Speaker 1:The Void. The Void design is awesome. It's terrifying. It's so simple.
Speaker 2:It's a black silhouette and white pin needle eyes.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:That's the whole design and it's terrifying. And then the Void just takes over New York City, and then Yelena takes this opportunity to go.
Speaker 1:And I will always in my head canon will always play that she was taking her life, if she was taking her life to save Bob, but she didn't care what the outcome was.
Speaker 2:I think that's the right way to read it. I think she.
Speaker 1:And if you want to play back to the beginning of the movie where she was taking her leap of, she wasn't taking a leap of faith In my mind. If she would have fell and that parachute would have went and not worked, she would have been fine, and it's like it's the same thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Her face, the opening frame of her in that face. I know that look all too well and it's just something that's so impactful. So when she does it again, and there's another moment in the movie when they're about to die in the, in the, where they're about to die in the facility that that val had, she had the same look where she was like I'm ready to go like it and but this time she was ready to go for something, not for herself, I'm ready to go for a purpose yeah, it's like one of those things where, like if it works, it works, if it doesn't it's all right, it's all right, I had a good, I had a good run.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, it's, it's a really poignant moment, like you have like alexi, like shouting after her and again he had every chance to be. Like you know, and it's just you feel it, you're like he lost both of his daughters, like he just like, like I can't, I can't.
Speaker 2:And they're all like you know again, like they're all thinking rationally, they're like we don't, we can't just go in there.
Speaker 1:Like I know that she did. And then you want to talk about character lifting when the time matters. Ghost is the first one to be like well, I'm going after her who? Because? Yeah, because Ghost has, that's her through line through the whole movie.
Speaker 2:she's just like like X-Mach, like I'm coming to save you, like I'm, and she's kind of like analyzing the situation where she's like she wouldn't have went in there if she didn't think she you know, had a plan right like she wouldn't have went in there for nothing. So I'm going in there right, we're'm going in there.
Speaker 1:I guess I'm going. I'm the leader of this team. I fought Thanos. I'm Mr Soldier. I'm the leader of this team. I fought Thanos, yeah.
Speaker 2:I can handle this, yep, you can handle this actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did, they actually did, and then we get.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we end up in Bob's Well, we end up in Yelena's mind prison. Yep, um.
Speaker 1:You see her first like at the Red Room when she betrayed her best friend Yep. Heartbreaking Yep, elena, elena.
Speaker 1:No no don't go in the woods, not this again. I think they got the same actress that played her in Black Widow, which was cool, yeah, and then you go into she's. You know they gotta get the make the guns as fast as they can. I hate man Jack Shryer. You're gonna get into Craig Mazin territory of me saying I hate you and I actually think you're doing a phenomenal job. It's the little bit where, like, she covers her ears so she doesn't like your adult self protecting your childhood self but she's really just protecting herself yeah, from the traumas of your childhood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's a memory and so like. It's not like. She's actually right protecting her younger self, she's protecting her adult self, right from her trauma.
Speaker 1:Yep, and just the added bit to put bob in the clothes that he wore when he was a child that's like, that's next level stuff that's when lewis pullman really started going. That's where, like he's in the room and he's just like he's saying, like I'm nothing, like I'm just I'm nothing, like I will stay here, like I always make everything worse like hearing his parents arguing in the background.
Speaker 2:He's like they stop soon enough, Right.
Speaker 1:How bad could it be? At some point you get numb Again. He says what's the point? This is what it's going to be, this is the void that we all feel in ourselves.
Speaker 2:I hate to say it, I hate to be like that. That's so real man, but it is I've again.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever had a marvel movie that that this is probably why it's in my top three like I've never had it. I've never had this type of feeling in a marvel movie before, because you relate, you relate to it.
Speaker 1:Everyone relates to this on some level yeah, and like I said about like the void, like the comic version of the void, is this interdimensional or this ancient? No, no, no, no. In the movie the void is everybody. Everybody has that void, that peace, and some people succumb to it as well too, and Yelena is at the brink of succumbing to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to some degree. Like I said, to some degree we all experience this.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Whether it's relatively minor, whether it's severe. But I think the point too is you're the one that decides the severity of it at the end of the day. We kind of joked about what that little girl saw in her shame room. It doesn't matter how severe it might look to us, maybe to her it's like the most horrifying experience of her life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like that's kind of the point and then the back half of it is we'll touch on it in a second there's a, there's something that can get you out of it. There's something like there's ways you can get it out and like they. You know, I don't know how you ever want, I don't know how you want to read bob and elena's. I don't know how you ever want, I don't know how you want to read Bob and Yelena's relationship. I don't know if they're going to turn it romantic. I don't know if it's a brother and sister relationship, but it's a relationship Nonetheless. It's the most and you know you can say that it's. You know, red Guardian and Yelena. It's Bob and Yelena.
Speaker 1:That's the most important relationship in this movie, and both ways as well too. Like. You know, it's the. It's like the understanding from bob on, like a non-parental level that you would get out of red guardian. Like bob's like. I get it, I get it, I understand like. And elena to him. Like elena was probably the first person that's ever seen bob. Not the century, not the conduit that you know val wants to use, or you know not this. Like little crap of a person that doesn't mean anything, like his parents, all like no, I see bob, like that's who I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah and then that's why I love that scene when they fight the century and she goes.
Speaker 1:I know you and he goes like do you, do you?
Speaker 2:yep, yeah, and the answer is yes, I do know you like You're me, and I think he needed that experience in the void again with her to see that she does understand. And then it just segues into you know all these Marvel movies. Every time you always want to pay attention to the third act and how this third act unfolds. And how are they going to deal with the villain? How are they going to deal with the problem? This movie handles it in probably the best way that they could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the wow. They held hands and all no BS, that's BS, that's straight BS. You know what it reminds me of.
Speaker 2:It reminds me of the end of the first Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes, yup, when, like, we defeated you with the power of friendship. But it's the best example. Yeah, it's the best example of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like I heard that and I was like that's just straight BS and you're projecting. It feels like almost like you're projecting something. That's like you don't want to believe that this is a way that you can feel better, but it truthfully is. You're just not ready to hear it yet. That's how I took that, because, man, that was the second time this movie broke me. Was that end and it was. It was this kind of like again that all too familiar, like you're beating yourself, like you're, truthfully, to the end of the day, like bob turned into the darkness he was trying to escape yeah, because the crew shows up.
Speaker 2:Yep, they find elena and bob, and then they start tumbling through bob's right subconscious, and then walker punches out uh, bob's abusive father yeah, which I thought was a nice touch. Yes, yep um, and then they end up back in the lab that we see from the in the beginning of the movie.
Speaker 1:That's the shot that I was gushing over when I saw this movie, where the void's sitting there and you see the two silhouettes on the left and right of him and he's kind of sitting there and like that's where you flex. You got the cinematographer of the Green Knight, like that's where you flex that right there. Come at me, bro, come at. Yeah, the void. The void is chilling.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like yeah, bobby, like the void is like it's a very real metaphor for this type of manic depression. We're like you can't overcome me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you might try. It's not going to happen, man and.
Speaker 2:Bob man, and if you are going to overcome me, you're going to do it through anger.
Speaker 1:Yeah and pain, and guess what you're going to get out of this. Nothing. You're going to dig yourself even deeper and deeper and deeper until you can't come out of it and deeper and deeper until you can't come out of it.
Speaker 2:And that's when you what you get when bob is fighting back against the void and the shadow is literally consuming him as he's throwing punches and he's only pulled out when the rest of the team is able to get to him and son lux.
Speaker 1:That score, that's like one of the best score pieces I've heard out of the mcu. Like and not score pieces of, like, the main theme of the movie, no, the actual score piece used in the moment man. That moment it broke me because it's like you don't have to be alone to do this. This is one of the pieces that can get you out of it. They're all grabbing onto Bob like Yelena's their first of you don't. It doesn't have to be like we're here, you don't have to fight it alone.
Speaker 1:Like we're here. Like we're here Like what? To other capacity and like they're all at different levels of capacities to Bob, obviously Elaine is the closest, uh, ghost is probably the farthest, but like we're all still here for you to any, to any capacity that might need. Yeah, they were here basically, yeah, they did.
Speaker 2:We're here, like we're here for you and it's like you don't. You know, fighting this alone only makes it worse, yep oftentimes yeah whereas, like fighting it with people that care about you, makes it more manageable, right? That's ultimately what the movie is about, right, and they've all experienced it to some degree.
Speaker 1:Like yes, that's the point of they've all. What's the through line of all of them? In their darker halves, they were alone. They were all alone. Yelena was. What did she say? She was, I was all alone. And the Red Guardian sits in an apartment. You know, after having the glory of Russia behind him, he sits in an apartment on the next block over from Baltimore. We're not technically in Baltimore. Ghost is on the run from 15 nation. Is this a shield reject? Her parents are dead. She has nobody with her. She physically phases in and out of reality. John Walker was Captain America and had it stripped from him, but it doesn't matter that he had the Captain America strips. He had his wife and child stripped from him. They are all alone. All of them blasted them. And when did they all get out of there?
Speaker 2:When they were together, and the only one that's gone and through it and gotten to the other side was Bucky and who?
Speaker 1:got them into the situation in the first place to tell themselves that they can do it. None other than Bucky.
Speaker 2:And he's also the one that didn't process his thing alone.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:He did for a long time. Until said sam found him. Yep, and he's do the work.
Speaker 1:Like he did the work, he did it and guess what. Like by the end of falcon and the winter soldier, like he wasn't alone, like he had somebody that he can call a friend and somebody that he can go into battle with but just also just be around if things get tough. Like Like hey, come to my family's post-we-saved-the-world barbecue.
Speaker 2:And then you know the thing, the through line, and it's the one at the end when they're like you know, and when Bob basically says like I can't be the century anymore. It's again a very real metaphor, like, just because they beat the void in that moment doesn't mean it's gone, doesn't mean he's magically better.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that is always going to be with him, right, just like it's always going to be with all of them. It's just how you manage it and if you manage it together, like the Void is always going to be a part of him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no matter what, all the bad-ish that I know Yelena talks about it, things like so many, and red garden kind of says, all right, we've all done. Bad ish, bad issues happen to all of us, but you don't understand how special you are still. You still have. You don't understand how much good you've done as well too. You don't see that in you. Yeah, I'm here to show you that you are that. So yeah, that's why that's the simplicity of why this movie cracks my top three. To be this far down the line in the MCU and we get something like this. It's remarkable.
Speaker 1:I'm excited for Fantastic Four as well too. It just feels like we're in this new age where cinema's a focus, there's a buzz, character's a focus. Like you said, I haven't felt that in the theater in a while. Like I, I, I didn't like Guardians three. We both agreed it was like it's like a different like, like it was like a different kind of pocket that Guardians three was in Cause. I think I can confidently say that Guardians three and this are the best movies out of out of the post end game era, out of the post-Endgame era. This movie it's different though. I mean this movie just it's a movie. That's the biggest thing. This is a film. This is an actual film that was put together front to back by creators that care and actors that care and actors that wanted to make a good movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then we get to the end of the movie where it's like post-void. They go to confront Valentina I want to kill that lady. And she's like guys, guys, let's just talk. And John Walker's like I'm all out of talking. And then she again like you just want to see Valentina get her comeuppance, but she doesn't. Instead, she manipulated this entire situation to say that congratulations.
Speaker 1:You're an Avenger now.
Speaker 2:The new Avengers, everybody? What? This is the name of the movie. Yep, they did the thing that literally everyone thought they were going to do. Yep, and yes, they are now the new Avengers. Sam Wilson's like well, yes, we find out that Sam Wilson is an. Well, yes, we find out that Sam Wilson is an expert in copyright litigation. Right, so that's the end of the movie. So then, obviously can't be a Marvel movie without your post-credit scenes. First post-credit scenes fun, it's again, it's classic Marvel.
Speaker 2:You get a fun one, and then you get one that tells you what's coming next, right, so we get the fun one with red guardian um in a grocery store and he's like trying to sell this woman on a box of wheaties that have the the new avengers on it, yeah, and he's like, huh, that's me, that's me she's like we don't care, we don't care she puts it down. Um, it's pretty fun. I enjoyed that. And then the second one um, we get a scene directed by the russo brothers um presumably will be some, for we'll probably again.
Speaker 2:It's probably classic marvel um. We'll probably see this scene in avengers doomsday right um presumably yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 1:It's very akin to I forget which movie it was. It's like this is the um captain marvel, uh, avengers, infinity war one it's the okay, avengers endgame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the ant man post-credits scene. That was the scene from Civil War. That's what I'm saying. We're back, we're so back. We're back to post-credits scenes mattering. So yeah, we get the new Avengers in the new Avengers digs. John Walker's got a beret and his shield is still bent. I kind of like it.
Speaker 1:No, I don't. I kind of like it no, I don't.
Speaker 2:I kind of like it because it's kind of like this is who I am now. This is who I was when I was forged into an avenger. My shield was broken, what's?
Speaker 1:his. What's his shield made out of, who knows? I I still love the fact that. What if it was made out of adamantium? And the void is the centuries, just that I think he will get a new shield at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they'll give him an adamantium shield nah, I don't think they'll go that far. Yes, they will. They're going to be like he's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the government. Nah, You're talking to the president of the government.
Speaker 2:Nah, I don't think he can have one. Don't give him that.
Speaker 1:Just give him an adamantium shield.
Speaker 2:No, have it say U don't do that. The beret is fun.
Speaker 1:He said do you like? It's a choice. Do you like your little hat? He's like the hat. That's cool. Can we talk about Bucky's hair?
Speaker 2:yeah, the yassified Bucky great hair yeah, the yassified he's back to like this is that was like Captain America Winter Soldier esque he was.
Speaker 1:He did a lot of aura farming in this movie that was.
Speaker 2:I gotta see more of it, but that might be my favorite Bucky look, besides the Winter Soldier. Yeah, it's a pretty good looking costume. It's pretty great, it's solid.
Speaker 1:I like it. It's solid, yelena, it's good yeah.
Speaker 2:She's Black Widow. It's Black. Widow yeah, they're talking Ghost also yassified Ghost's hair.
Speaker 1:They did yeah.
Speaker 2:She got a little makeover, pretty nice, bob is there yep, bob's like.
Speaker 1:I can't, guys, I can't help. They're like you're literally the most powerful person on the planet, he's like. But then the void shows up yeah, nobody likes that nobody likes when he's here.
Speaker 2:I did the dishes, though, so everyone will be sad yeah, literally if the void shows up, it's not great when he's here. You think the void would get an avengers suit.
Speaker 1:That would be funny. It's just still. But like the silhouette's, just the avengers.
Speaker 2:A, they got a new, a new avengers, a yeah pretty cool little spike through it. Yeah, instead of an arrow right, pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Um. So yeah, red guardian, he's pulling a chris evans from fantastic four. Two avengers avengers. He said sam wilson is litigious man, I am smart man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we get a little tiny backstory that Sam Wilson, not too happy with New Avengers, doesn't like. It Probably feels a little betrayed by Bucky, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Russo brothers, if you guys are truly cooking, maybe show the you think they fight each other. Maybe not a fist fight. I don't think they're that petty. It would be fun if they like got into like a little squabble and like it's more about a squabble, to show that like Sam's ready to be Captain America now to him, to like physically to him, not just not like the mantle of Captain America.
Speaker 2:I think he might kind of take it as like a slap in the face sure, sure.
Speaker 1:And Bucky basically said this is you, you are the leader of the Avengers now. This is why Steve chose you. And then for Bucky to turn around and be like, I got my own Avengers. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're actually in Avengers Tower.
Speaker 1:And we're the government's Avengers. Yeah, but Bucky says but he's Captain America, he's the government's Captain America, so something's not clicking. I'm intrigued, me too.
Speaker 2:I'm intrigued.
Speaker 1:Because I think they're probably in a punch for a bit and then they're mates. I just All right. Who's on Sam Wilson's Avengers we?
Speaker 2:don't know.
Speaker 1:That's the question.
Speaker 2:He's got one person.
Speaker 1:Some people are presumably going to join the new Avengers too. I'm assuming I would Would you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, depends who he has, I'm assuming, because all the guys that he got are Avengers adjacent. Well, sam, doctor Strange isn't technically an Avenger.
Speaker 1:No well, he's not going to be on the Avengers. Sam, I'm going to assume he's going to have Ant-Man Great, he's going to have Ant-Man. He'll have Shang-Chi, that's pretty good. He'll have Captain Marvel, maybe. Maybe I'll take Captain Marvel out of there, like her, and Thor are both like kind of like Avengers adjacent yeah, I'm not gonna take like.
Speaker 2:I know Thor's technically an Avenger, but like he doesn't do stuff with them Sam Joaquin, ant-man, shang-chi, she-hulk, she-hulk, come on man oh, it is the Hulk Avengers. No, no, you're doing this again.
Speaker 1:An asian man, a latino man, a she-hulk, a she-hulk, a black man. Look at the new avengers. Yeah, it's all white people and half a ghost. That's why they're the real adventure. No, don't, don't take that. Take. They don't know that you're joking. They're going to take this out of context. Yeah, you have Shang-Chi, ant-man, she-hulk Falcon, captain America, great.
Speaker 2:Good, who else? Great team, that's it, and he doesn't even have any of those people yet.
Speaker 1:We're just supposing Well, I'm assuming, because it's 14 months later. I think Sam probably recruited.
Speaker 2:some people Wouldn, because it's 14 months later, I think Sam probably recruited some people. Wouldn't you like to see that happen though?
Speaker 1:Well, they're probably going to show it at the beginning of Doomsday.
Speaker 2:I would kind of hate, that what Like him forming the Avengers at the beginning of an Avengers movie?
Speaker 1:We probably should have seen that by now. Well, sam's going to have his Avengers team ready. I would hope you think Fantastic Four First Steps is going to invert this post-credit scene. Maybe that would be fun. If they get there, they're like who are the real avengers?
Speaker 2:they land right in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that just seems. Oh, it's like the x-men 90, like it's like the x-men 97, like opening credits, where they both run at each other um yeah, I guess we should talk about that real quick.
Speaker 2:So they're in the, they're in the watch tower they're arguing they're. They're at the avengers tower and they're arguing talk about sam wilson being mad that they are the avengers now, um, but they're the new avengers with the z, and then they're like big, big thing coming in from outer space why are they not telling us anything about it?
Speaker 1:because you're being used, jelena.
Speaker 1:That's why big thing from outer space and Bucky's kind of like quarterbacking Yelena, you know what I love throughout this movie with Bucky Like one of the subtle things, how like adept he is to everything, but like he just chooses not to like flex it anymore Because that's not him anymore. He's like she's like you can track my phone, right. He's like yes, I can, but I don't want to because that's not me anymore. She's like all right, bye. And Bucky like captures all of them, like these super soldiers. He just captures like it's nothing. The Winter Soldier, mr Soldier, so cool.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Bucky's kind of like quarterbacking Yelena on how to like deal with the interplanetary crisis.
Speaker 1:Or just the satellite itself. Just how had to be an Avenger?
Speaker 2:He's like just open up the satellite and give us an image please. And she's like give us an image please. It's like the, the Arrowverse, the, the Invasion crossover. Oh yeah, when Barry's like we gotta uh, uh and Oliver's like we gotta spar against Supergirl.
Speaker 2:He's like we're gonna do training mission and sarah's like, are we just expected not to hear him? It's like the same thing that bucky's doing. And she's like, yeah, pull up the thing. And then they're like walker's, like we're running out of space, like outer space. He's like, oh, I'm dumb now yeah that's my fear.
Speaker 1:That's one of my fears. Don't russo's. Don't do it. John walker is one of the best characters out of the new phase.
Speaker 2:Don't do it ah, ah, outer space. Yes, I love space.
Speaker 1:Maybe the hat makes him dumber. Maybe the beret makes him a little dumber.
Speaker 2:Look, the beret is a choice.
Speaker 1:It just doesn't seem combat enough. But Eddie made such a big deal about the helmet too, remember Mm-hmm. No, it's not a helmet, it's a hat. What hat?
Speaker 2:what about your hat? Yeah, yeah, does for sure hate hats. Maybe they're gonna make a deal out of that um, so yeah, spaceship comes flying in.
Speaker 1:They're like what? The spaceship?
Speaker 2:and then great, great cinematic timing out of the spaceship to do a good classic turn, do classic turn.
Speaker 1:You're the fantastic four for marvel comics, aren't you?
Speaker 2:it'd be funny if there's no fantastic four in the ship it's just herbie.
Speaker 1:No, it would be funnier if it was the thing he's like, okay okay is this planet good or what?
Speaker 2:yeah, so the fantastic four are presumably escaping their universe maybe we don't know for sure.
Speaker 1:Maybe Reed's just sending probes Dicking around. Maybe he's sending probes out just to see he's just dicking around.
Speaker 2:He could be Could be. Yeah, I think they should just crash in the middle of both Avengers teams and be like which one are the true Avengers we are the true.
Speaker 1:Avengers. We're the true Avengers. Wait, are both not the real true Avengers? I request elaborate. Vision would be on Sam's team. Wait Vision's having a crisis, wait White.
Speaker 2:Vision would be, white Vision would be on which team? Think about your answer very carefully.
Speaker 1:Before you proclaim which team White Vision's going to be on. White Vision would be on the new Avengers. Maybe that's a fun episode. We divvy out the rest of the Avengers from the people that are free agents.
Speaker 2:White Vision and Mork Vision.
Speaker 1:Come on, man, that's a philosopher vision. We should divvy out the rest of the Avengers.
Speaker 2:That's what I said. Everyone's a free agent. Everyone's a free agent right now, technically.
Speaker 1:Would Thor, funny enough, probably go to the new Avengers? Yeah, he don't care, because what's his loyalty to Sam Wilson?
Speaker 2:None, zero, I don't think they've shared a single moment together.
Speaker 1:Captain Marvel is too much of a Girl Scout. She'd go to Sam. Yeah, she'd stay with Sam. Hulk would go with Sam. He's retired. He's going with Sam. I'm not fighting any more beings. She Hulk would go with Sam. Ant-man, weirdly enough, is the most loyal to Sam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter who has the mantle of Captain America. As long as you're not John Walker, I'm loyal. He said. Actually, it does matter who has the mantle, because that John Walker guy's a psycho. Why can't I think of any other Avengers right now?
Speaker 2:Because they're all dead or retired. Yeah, doctor, other Avengers right now. Because they're all dead or retired. Yeah, doctor Strange is in another dimension.
Speaker 1:He is. He's coming, though he's going to be an issue. Doctor Strange yeah, oh, I thought you. I don't know why Doctor Doom popped in my head when you said Doctor Strange, um, okay, I'm looking at the landscape of Phase 4. And I will tell you who will side with which team. Okay, alright, we are on to. Okay, wandavision Wanda, she's dead technically Vision.
Speaker 2:Who knows? He's having a crisis.
Speaker 1:Okay, he's unavailable.
Speaker 2:Okay, Shang-Chi Sam Sam's team probably we're skipping the. Eternals. We'll never see them again.
Speaker 1:Hawkeye Retired Kate Bishop Young Avengers.
Speaker 2:There's a third variant Young Avengers. Young Avengers, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, this is where it's going to get fun. Moon Knight Ooh, he'd go with the new Avengers Defenders. Come on. No, that's not. We're not having a fourth team.
Speaker 2:I guess. I guess Moon Knight would probably be, I don't know. I think he's going with the New Avengers.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? What do you mean? Mark Spector is literally the whole thing. We were talking about all its characters. Mark Spector also fits into that. True. Yeah, trauma bonding, yep, yep good point, but Jake Lockley would go with the OG Avengers. No, steven Grant would go with the old Avengers. Yeah, steven Grant would go with the new Avengers. Jake Lockley would hang out with the Void no, he'd hang out with the Punisher and the Void. What do you think the Punisher song there, sunshine and Rainbows, yeah, his worst fear.
Speaker 2:What is that his worst fear? A life without criminals. This is what.
Speaker 1:Ms Marvel the.
Speaker 2:Young Avengers yeah.
Speaker 1:Thor.
Speaker 2:I feel like he would be. I feel like he would team up With the New Avengers. I think he would do.
Speaker 1:I think it would be A fun contrast.
Speaker 2:I feel like he would have More camaraderie With the New Avengers.
Speaker 1:I think. Well, what I genuinely think Is going to happen Is they're going to Replace Hyperion With Sentry In Doomsday, in Secret Wars, and him and Thor are going to be like bros together.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense. They're going to grow out his beard and they're going to clasp their hands and flex their biceps.
Speaker 1:You know what would be funny if you want to talk about all this trauma bonding of all the bad crap we've been through. Thor has been through so much bad crap. He's going to older brother himself to Sentry and he's going to show him how to bring out the sentry without bringing out the void.
Speaker 2:I feel like you're strong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're strong. We're both strong, are we bros?
Speaker 2:now I was gonna be friends with Hercules, but never mind, no, they were gonna be lovers.
Speaker 1:That's Thor 5. She-hulk the Avengers, probably Werewolf by night. Leave him home, yeah, he's not.
Speaker 2:He's a true one-and-Thing to be in this movie.
Speaker 1:I still think that this movie needed one Weirdo Big.
Speaker 2:Weirdo.
Speaker 1:Right, like Guardians has Groot, the Avengers have Hulk. Yeah, I think this movie either needed Man-Thing or I think the one that actually would have fit is the Abomination. The Abomination would have been the fun one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because what's Man-Thing's trauma?
Speaker 1:Yeah, bring back Tim Roth. I think Tim Roth would have fit into this movie really well.
Speaker 2:What's Man-Thing's trauma? What did Man-Thing see in the void, him in his human form Him in black and white.
Speaker 1:Oh no, obviously, shuri Sam Namor Not thinking about a fourth Doctor Doom, he's just gonna immediately be like yo. This guy knows exactly what he's talking about.
Speaker 2:I get this man, yeah, this guy's mad cool Star-Lord.
Speaker 1:Funny enough, he would fit the best with the new Avengers.
Speaker 2:Ant-Man Sam Old Avengers.
Speaker 1:Regular Avengers yeah, Ant-Man and Wasp are a package deal to the new Avengers, Nick Fury. I mean you'd go with Sam. Yeah, Even when I'm out I'm in. Captain Marvel obviously would go with Sam. Echo no, she's not in on this, she's not in Deadpool and Wolverine don't count X -Men Agatha.
Speaker 2:Probably not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's sitting, this one out.
Speaker 2:She's a ghost.
Speaker 1:New Avengers. She's a ghost. Did you say ghost? We can't have two ghosts on this team. It says John Walker, daredevil Too busy building his own team, yeah. Filled with cherry. For some odd reason, spider-man Sam.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably.
Speaker 1:Who else do I got? I think we covered everybody that's not dead. Valkyrie, hey man, she might go with the new Avengers. Hawkeye, himself Retired. He's retired, retired, retired.
Speaker 2:Thought you were, you know, retired Ironheart. I mean, she'd probably go with wherever sherry's going, wonder man my name's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or he's going.
Speaker 2:He's going on the side of aura whoever has the most aura, he'll find them or they'll find him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they will they just make him new avengers because he's like a, he's like a movie star yeah, I got an idea. If they do another new avengers movie, you add Simon Williams and he's like their new front man. That's what.
Speaker 2:I'm saying, yeah, he'd be all for that.
Speaker 1:And if they give him his comic powers, he's an issue. That's a balanced breakfast. I don't want to fight that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like he would be new Avengers. Yeah, he would. They would bring him in want to fight that guy. Yeah, I feel like he would be New Avengers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he would, they would bring him in. Yeah, they would.
Speaker 2:Because Valentino would be like. None of you guys are charming or fun. You can't just keep sending Red Guardian out there, yeah.
Speaker 1:They should do. A Red Guardian might have been cancelled subplot in the next New Avengers movie. He was a communist. He was a communist. Maybe that's why he's canceled. Maybe he should run for office.
Speaker 2:So now we brought this guy in Simon Williams and he's look at him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's Yahya Abdul-Mateen. Look at him. The second, he's cool as crap. He's like hey y'all, hey y'all. I'm Simon Williams, I'm Wonder man. Like damn you, is he cool. Yeah, yeah, he's cool. What if he's got a red dragon? He's like so cool. Mr Soldier, I thought you were that cool.
Speaker 1:That guy's cool that guy's way cooler than you, that guy's way cooler than you, bucky's like, but I just got my new hair. Yeah, but look at that guy, that guy's cool. Damn he's cool, is he cool? The Punisher, the Void. He's siding with the Void. He is siding with the Void. Miles Morales, he's not around.
Speaker 2:He doesn't exist yet. Why not?
Speaker 1:Because he doesn't. I think I covered everyone Pretty much, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I got everybody, so yeah.
Speaker 1:That's not as many characters as I thought it was.
Speaker 2:No, they're all dead, for the most part, or retired. Monica Rambeau she's trapped in another dimension.
Speaker 1:Doctor Strange Also trapped in another dimension? No, he's going with Doctor Doom. Yeah, doctor Strange is going to be like listen, this guy's got a plan guys.
Speaker 2:He's also in another dimension. He's hanging out with Clea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't. I mean, there's not a lot to Cassie Lang Young.
Speaker 2:Avengers Billy. Young Avengers. Tommy, also Young Avengers. Elijah Bradley we don't, we don't know if we're ever gonna see him why was he just not in Captain America 4?
Speaker 1:we don't know if we're ever gonna see him again. I don't. I don't know what he did to anybody, but that's nothing. That's a different one but we might not never see him again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not great yeah, I think I covered everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the next thing is fantastic four, wow we're trucking along this year for all the all the great stuff that's coming out it comes out in two months it does come out in two months. Superman comes out in two months yeah, fantastic we're probably gonna get a superman trailer here soon is what the streets are saying. We need something else to do. Fantastic, huh the make, miles tellers the maker. What does the four mean? You think that like the Fantastic, huh, miles Teller's the Maker. What does the four?
Speaker 2:mean you think that the New Avengers looked up at the ship with the four and they're like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's stupid.
Speaker 2:What is that?
Speaker 1:What is that? What is?
Speaker 2:that this is a big ship with a four on it Lame, lame, so cool. I do like your idea that it's just Ben Grimm in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, okay, okay, reed, so cool. I do like your idea that it's just Ben Grimm in there.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, reed really outdid himself with this one.
Speaker 1:Like who's Reed?
Speaker 2:Who's Reed? Big, stretchy arms come out of the ship.
Speaker 1:I'm Reed Richards.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, you're, pedro Pascal, you're from everything. You're Pedro Pascal from cinema It'd be funny if they recognized the Fantastic Four, since they're from another universe.
Speaker 1:They recognize them as their actors. You're not from Stranger Things, are you?
Speaker 2:Wait a minute. You're that guy from Stranger Things.
Speaker 1:And then Johnny uses the same logic back to Red Garney. He's like wait, you're the, you're not from Stranger Things. Wait a minute. Yeah, what a picture Do we get better?
Speaker 2:Like the post-credits scene. Wasn't as like monumental?
Speaker 1:People were making out as if that Is it because we were so deprived of a meaningful post-credits scene for so many years that people were like you guys don't understand. Yeah, I was like alright, because I kept hearing it like no, this post-credits scene, this is the one Like it changes everything. No, it didn't change anything. It was just nice to see that they made a post-credits scene. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2:We've been so deprived that finally it's cool that they finally made another one that will just here's the next movie that's coming out. I was very grateful for that, but it wasn't like oh my god, Maybe it's because I was expecting Fantastic Four or something.
Speaker 1:I wasn't. I thought they were going to do a Doomsday thing. Yeah, so did I. Well, I mean, technically speaking, this is a Doomsday thing.
Speaker 2:But I wouldn't have been shocked. People were making it seem like the Fantastic Four showed up.
Speaker 1:I thought they were going to show up. I thought Doctor Doom was going to show up. I thought the incursions were gonna start happening and like I thought it was cause people were saying you guys don't understand this second post crazy. I thought one of the things I thought was like an incursion was gonna happen and it was gonna be. The X-Men characters were gonna drop down and then you were gonna hear the theme and I would've been like oh dear, oh yeah, should we do some awards yeah, why not man?
Speaker 1:this movie deserves it this movie does deserve a lot of awards. Alright, best cinema moment in this movie best cinema moment, huh. I love the ambiguity behind this award because, like there's so many aspects that go into filmmaking, you can really be creative of how you divvy this award for me, I think it's Yelena stepping into the void.
Speaker 1:Okay, for me it's the opening sequence of this movie. They practically did that she jumped off the building and then the top-down shadow fight scene. I wish we got one more creative scene using not the same visual trick but like the creativity of Jake Schreier and team. Like I wish we got one more prolonged action sequence. You know this movie is like the definition of like the one take action sequence, like this movie should have encapsulated a one take action sequence. That was just like I mean it kind of did with the. There was bits of the first fight that they all had together, but just that opening sequence with Yelena, just like that drop down shadow fight that she had was really great best character.
Speaker 2:That doesn't need to be in this movie best character that doesn't need to be in this movie.
Speaker 1:That doesn't the congressman?
Speaker 2:no, wendell pierce's character I really enjoyed him for some reason I don't think he had any clue what movie he was in.
Speaker 1:No, no, no because he was just wacky. He said in the in the secrets are juicy. He was like, what was he doing? He was doing a bit. That's what I thought he was doing a bit, but why? Yeah, I don't understand. I don't. I don't get it. How'd he get there? I don't know. Man, you got a superman movie to do and you just had time for this. This is crazy. You got time to be a wacky congressman. Yeah, it was insane. Um, best actor to join the franchise, it's lewis pullman yes, yeah, I think that's, yeah, that's non-negotiable.
Speaker 1:Oh, we can actually use this one best car bit. It's the, it's the chase in the desert.
Speaker 2:It's the chase in the desert or just strictly a car bit. It's him pulling up. Yeah, later yeah.
Speaker 1:It's your dad. She's like oh my god, Don't go in the vault. I really like that Best family member.
Speaker 2:Is it Red Guardian? Is this Fast?
Speaker 1:and Furious. Inspired. Well, this all pulls something from something, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd say Red Guardian.
Speaker 1:Best side mission? There's no side missions in this movie. Is it Bucky being a congressman, but also being the Winter Soldier? Is the best side missions in this movie? Isn't Bucky being a congressman, but also being the Winter Soldier the best side mission in this movie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the Congress investigation into Val. Yeah Goes back to Wendell Pierce. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is juicy. It is juicy. Best side character in this movie. Wendell Pierce, taskmaster no, she didn't even get enough to be a side character. This movie, wendell Pierce, tax Basics no, it can't. She didn't even get enough to be a side character.
Speaker 2:Val's assistant. Yeah, yeah, I liked her a lot yeah she'll be back.
Speaker 1:She'll definitely be back. Best stance Just kidding, but I'll remix the best stance into like who has the best? Like who was your favorite set of like? Your favorite person on the team's power set specifically, that doesn't include the Sentry. We'll just take him out because it's too easy.
Speaker 2:I really like what they did with Ghost Powers in this.
Speaker 1:Ghost Powers are awesome. I think I like John's because it's like, that's like even the bit of him jumping like they buffed him.
Speaker 2:Where did that come from?
Speaker 1:I mean he's, I know, but like he's a unit, he took the and somebody made a good point. Like Steve's serum was the earliest version of the serum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was made in the 40s 40s.
Speaker 1:Versus a version that was made in the 2020s. Like John's serum is probably more potent and probably stronger. And also somebody made a point when Steve got his serum, he was like a small individual. Yeah, john walker is the peak physical specimen that you want. And then he got the super soldier serum like yeah, he's probably stronger than steve is like he's probably stronger than steve. Like he's probably like everything that steve wants to be. He's just a psychopath a little bit um, but no I.
Speaker 2:I thought the subject of ghost powers in this movie was great, like her phasing through the helicopter yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I was just like yeah, this is. You guys get it. Yeah, best boss, fight them versus the Sentry, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that fight versus the Sentry is like in the video game when you fight the boss in the beginning of the game and you're supposed to lose.
Speaker 1:It's one Kratos fight store in the beginning of God of War.
Speaker 2:It's like when you fight Koton Kan yeah.
Speaker 1:Ghost of Tsushima. I know I'm going to lose, but I'm going to try. I'm going to try.
Speaker 2:I'm going to whoop your ass now, baby.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I can feel your spine, johnny. What is One day we're going to talk about X-Men Origins Wolverine, a movie I was quite obsessed with when I was a child. Everybody was that movie came out after. No, that movie came out after Iron man 1. Uh-huh, that bothers me. Sure did I love pitting the X-Men timeline and the Fox timeline against the MCU timeline and seeing when the movies came out, because then you're like wait, why did Fantastic Four, rise of the Silver Surfer, come out one year before Iron man? And then also, why did Spider-Man 3 come out one year before Iron man 1? Because those movies are 20 years apart, actually. Yeah, saddest moment in this movie Woof, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Woof Taskmaster.
Speaker 1:No, just kidding.
Speaker 2:No, I don't man. I mean the scene, like I said, the scene with Yelena where she breaks down is heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But also the scene of Bob in the Void is also heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go with the scene of Bob in the Void because I get it man, I get it man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a good movie. It's great, best relationship.
Speaker 2:Yelena and Bob. Just because you said that I'll go Yelena and bob, just because you said that I'll go, I'll go elena and and in alexi yeah I, yeah, I just I just like the way that they I just I love a good like kindred spirit relationship of like two people just being like.
Speaker 1:I see you, yep, you know what I mean and I don't see whatever version of somebody you're trying to be. I don't see whatever version that people are trying to make you to be. I just see you because I see you. That's it, yeah, most underrated character in this movie.
Speaker 2:Red.
Speaker 1:Guardian, I'd say it's Ghost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say Red Guardian, just because, again, I just think you expected one thing from him, like it felt like he was going to be very big and loud and funny to varying degrees of success.
Speaker 1:I mean you can compare this to the way they use drax and guardians one, specifically because guardians one, drax, still has the little bit of like I have a broken past and b I'm still a problem to deal with. You do not want to deal with me. I think 2 loses it too much.
Speaker 2:I think Red Guardian again. There were moments where I was genuinely surprised with the direction that character went in, Because Black Widow he doesn't do a ton. He doesn't even do a ton of the emotional tethering in Black Widow that he does in this movie. In Black Widow he's still kind of goofy a little bit Most heroic moment.
Speaker 2:This movie has a ton of heroic moments actually, ironically enough, yeah, I'm going to say heroic moment in the sense that it's the characters saving themselves and it's when Bob defeats the Void with the help of the team.
Speaker 1:My most heroic moment is going to be it's red, it's. It's Alexi realizing that he not only does Yelena still have that light, he still has it too. Yeah, and he's just, he's saving P and like he fought, like that's the red guard, that's the fully realized moments in this movie is like the characters kind of saving themselves which I think is awesome they're saving themselves from their darker half by being the best versions of themselves that they can be like and those one fist could learn a thing or two they could, they really could don't succumb to your darker half yeah learn to overcome it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, best bit. Uh, I think I like your your point about Bucky Him not being able to escape his winter soldierism.
Speaker 1:I think it's pretty funny. What's the best bit in this movie?
Speaker 2:The Thunderbolts bit is pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shane Shane. It wasn't Shane's Shane. What is the best bit in this movie? Is it Wendell Pierce? It's funny.
Speaker 2:It's pretty good. I have no clue what's going on there.
Speaker 1:Me neither. What is the best bit in this movie?
Speaker 2:The Bob, his name being Bob.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty good, best battle. I think it's them against themselves. Ooh.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's tough I like that.
Speaker 2:That's a good one. Them against themselves. Favorite cameo fantastic four that was probably the only cameo.
Speaker 1:I think that was the, and it wasn't even a cameo, yeah because they weren't even in it no the Avengers name. The avengers tower is taskmaster task. No, don't, best set oh uh, avengers tower.
Speaker 2:avengers tower is pretty slick, I like that one. New York this is probably the most alive New York they've filmed in a while.
Speaker 1:Just the subtle trick to have New York be on a dark and gloomy, just a grayed out day versus the Avengers'. First time out it was like a bright and sunny day.
Speaker 2:This is probably the best that they've had the New York looking in a while.
Speaker 1:At least in movies, I think.
Speaker 2:Daredevil did a nice job.
Speaker 1:Well, they shot in New York for Daredevil, which I don't know if this movie shot in New York or not.
Speaker 2:It looked like it I mean that scene with Yelena and Alexei looked like it was set on a New York street.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of extras going on as well, too, which I like. That's real movie making yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean there's a couple that I really like. I like the little bunker that they all fought in I thought that was cool.
Speaker 1:This movie looks great. This is a good looking movie. Best heat check performance Taskmaster.
Speaker 2:Nope the Void yeah, you could argue that because again he puts up such a distinct performance. You could also say like him is the century too yeah, sure, sure, like the century himself because like that he drops, like that whole god bit was captivating, like I was, it felt very. You could tell they were kind of like, a little bit like, but that with that character they were kind of like inspired by Homelander, a little bit Sure With how he was talking to her, don't be cognizant.
Speaker 1:Oh no, he's becoming self-aware. He said well, you sent on all the Avengers rolled into one and there's at least one. God, I was like I said uh-oh. I said now that kills what you have. Now's the time he got you there. This is it? It's like I, I, he wasn't the century as long as I thought he was going to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I liked. I liked the little bit that he was the century I think they're saving it for doomsday.
Speaker 1:I think they're really saving him like going full because they're gonna need it like I. What's gonna, how you can immediately like like give validity to doom is like captain marvel thor like the avengers really pull out the heaviest of hitters and Doctor Doom's like yeah, no, yeah, no, absolutely not Funniest moment.
Speaker 2:Oh, this movie's got a bunch of them and it's much more organically funny too. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love when he shows up in the desert. It's so good, it's so funny.
Speaker 2:I know you know what you know, mom, and pop me a little bit. When they're escaping the facility and the guy goes to walker and he's like identify yourself and walker just goes no and yelena's like oh my god that really popped me. I really enjoyed that because he didn't even try to think of like a fake, no, nothing. He just said no, identify yourself, no. That really popped me. Him jumping and landing on his back was pretty good this movie. Like you said, it's very organically funny, right?
Speaker 1:um, best exposition dump uh, this isn't bob, this is robert reynolds from marvel comics who has the power of a you know what the best exposition dump? It's when they found the Sentry files and it's like the golden guardian of good, all the designs. It's probably the best way they could have done it. Sure, because it's so. Marvel Comics, clunky, stupid, yeah, but somebody kept making the point. One of the best points I've seen is talking about his suit. Like they MCU-ified the suit. Like no, that was the point.
Speaker 2:Like Bob is the only he's manufactured.
Speaker 1:Exactly, he's not like a real hero.
Speaker 2:Not yet.
Speaker 1:Not yet. Bob is the real hero. The Sentry is just the conduit for the power.
Speaker 2:He's Homelander.
Speaker 1:He manufactured hero, right, um, best source material callback. Uh, I mean, it's the century, it's, it's the, it's like the ambiguous past of the century and his memory loss. Like, just for I, I imagine paul jenkins, because paul jenkins was at the premiere and like he was with lewis pullman, like you gotta imagine he was sitting there like ear to ear grin of like yeah, wow, like I, like this is insane, like they got it and like they made it. They added like a layer of real because like the century's origin is one of the coolest origins in like comic book history, because it's so innovative. Um, for those who don't know, essentially what they do with his origin is the century was like in the 50s and 60s. Like he's a golden age hero, but something happens. The something is the void comes. Like he's a golden age hero, but something happens the something is the void comes out. So he needs to shield himself. So essentially, what he does is he, what is it? Reed Richards makes that machine to clear everybody's mind, including himself and Jake Schreier wanted to use that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But he specifically said because of Spider-Man, no Way Home, he couldn't.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:So that way you know because jake schreier and john watts are friends, so that's why you may be confused if you're reading the credits. Um, and one of the credits says special thanks to john watts that's why right right it's, it's not. It's not a literal dig at john watts, it's just a fun, right thing, right, like thanks.
Speaker 1:Like you screwed up my freaking plan, right um, and then you know he comes back and like, but it's, it's still ambiguous, like you don't know if he's at like, if he's just this, because like how it plays is like the true origin, is like he's just like he's a drug addict that breaks into a lab to try to get you know high and he accidentally stumbles upon the century serum and takes it. But you don't know. If you don't know which one is the true century origin? Both of the? Both of the true century origin? Neither of the two. And where did the void come from? Was the void always there? Did the void latch on to bob in the 60s? Or is the void even real? Like we don't, you don't know, like you don't know.
Speaker 2:Unless we know, the void is very real yes, and the voids in all of us.
Speaker 1:Best NPC in this movie? Oh, it's the military guy. Yes, guy, holt, holt, don't do it. Holt, can we go? Lethal Holt, god loves going lethal. Holt's been practicing for you. I just know Holt is an X shield reject, that's like I finally get to.
Speaker 2:I know when Holt came back from the void he immediately signed up to be on the Anti-Vigilante Task Force oh my gosh, you said I finally need somewhere where I can go.
Speaker 1:Lethal agreed upon. Holt Zoro loves lethal. Favorite action sequence. Uh, I think it's in the the opening, the facility, yeah, the.
Speaker 2:That fight it's great. It facility yeah, that fight is great. It does exactly what any great superhero fight scene should do and shows you that these characters are capable and shows them their unique skill set, which is super important in this movie, because what do we all punch and shoot? Yeah, zoom out level. They all kind of have the same power, but there's a differentiation. I like the differentiation between Yelena's fighting style, john's fighting style, red Guardian's fighting style and, for the brief moment that we see, a Taskmaster's fighting style.
Speaker 2:Like they all fight differently even though they all kind of do the same thing. Right Like John. Red Guardian is more brute force, john is more like tactical brute force, and then Yelena is all surgical precision, and then Taskmaster is like all just reflex you know memory recall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Ghost is like not reconnaissance, but it's like she's like Shadow. Ops Exactly exactly Best musical moment there's a few, because this score is just phenomenal.
Speaker 2:There's one point where and I think the internet will back this up there's a manipulation on the Avengers theme.
Speaker 1:Yep, I think the internet will back this up.
Speaker 2:There's a manipulation on the Avengers theme, yep, but that plays, which I really like because that's like the subtle foreshadowing to, they're going to be the Avengers, right, it's just great, like I love when a score can tell a story.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's um. For me it's the not alone piece where Bob is taking himself out from being being in the void and they kind of save him. We always say they kind of save them, but he also saved himself too. Favorite line? Oh, this is an easy one. What did Val say? Righteousness without power is an opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah she was putting up some numbers. I mean it's a funny one, it's not a real one, but I like when Rob goes, you were cast in America. And John Walker goes, yeah, why? And he goes, you're an asshole, Please.
Speaker 1:Favorite world building or lore moment.
Speaker 2:Them becoming the new avengers I think is yeah, the most impactful lore thing that's happening.
Speaker 1:It was the most important heavy lifting that the mcu needed, which you thought you were going to get from sam wilson, but they still also do from sam wilson in the same movie another.
Speaker 2:I mean it's done. I'm just thinking of lines now. But when? When Valentina says that they're like we're led to believe that there are good guys and there are bad guys, but you eventually realize that there's just bad guys and there are worse guys, and I'm like RIP, valentina, you would've loved Joel Miller.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you would've loved.
Speaker 2:Joel Miller.
Speaker 1:What about your dad, Valentina? Tough deal.
Speaker 2:Tough deal.
Speaker 1:Favorite shot it's that void shot. I love that void shot when they're sitting in, like I said, that's where you flex that. You got the cinematographer from Green Knight. That shot is gorgeous. While they get into the last part of the shame rooms and he's just sitting there, silhouetted, perfectly framed, perfectly graded. This movie just looks like an actual movie. It doesn't look like a product.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:My favorite performance 3, 2, 1, florence Pugh. Florence Pugh.
Speaker 2:Easy. Lewis Pullman, though man. Close second, very close second, he was incredible. David Harbour, a close third. They're all great.
Speaker 1:White Russell was incredible. They all brought it Favorite character.
Speaker 2:This is a tough one man. I think I'm going to settle on Yelena.
Speaker 1:Okay, man, hot take. I'm still going to stick with John Walker. I mean, he's still in my top three favorite additions post-endgame to the MCU. It's the complexity piece. He's not a simple digestible character, and I appreciate that it's the complexity piece. He's not a simple digestible character and I appreciate that it's not that simple.
Speaker 2:With Yelena. It's so crazy. I don't think it's anyone's fault, but I feel like I've connected more with that character than I ever did with Natasha, yes yes, yep, there you go.
Speaker 1:I'll even take it further than just Natasha, just in terms of characters and like where they stand and who they are and what they've gone through, like, not to say, I was a child assassin like Yelena, but like same thing, like she feels like one of the most relatable characters that we've gotten.
Speaker 2:So far she feels real. She feels like a real person, exactly.
Speaker 1:In ways that a lot of the guardians do, which is funny to think about, that. They're the ones, like, you know, captain america's, you know, coolness staked on him being chris evans as captain america, same thing for thor, same thing for iron man, that was your big three. Like, I think, where the new phase was starting to get right and then they lost a little bit, was like where those characters were at and like actually thinking of them as people, like not as like these, like big, bolstered heroes that were like no, no, like these are like simple human beings and like there's complexities and the simplicities and there's simplicities and the complexities and how do you handle all those things? And I think elena is like one of the best examples of that being executed and just came from an unlikely place yeah I don't think a lot of like you know.
Speaker 2:Obviously you get florence pew. You want to do something. I don't think anyone expected this character to be what she could be now which is kind of like the face of a lot of this stuff they could.
Speaker 1:You know, we talked about the post black panther pivot that marvel made, the post-Thunderbolts New Avengers pivot that Marvel's going to make is to make sure Florence Pugh is one of the main characters of Secret Wars. They're going to make sure she's Obviously Tom Holland's going to be at the forefront of this. She'll be, but they're going to pivot to make sure she's up there too. Yeah, I agree. And then the Fantastic Four they're going to make like Pedro Pascal. They're going to make sure, but like from the Avengers new Avengers, half Anthony Mackie will be there, but like they're probably going to push Florence Pugh a whole lot more they might have stumbled into it, yeah, and they did it twice yeah so your favorite moment from this movie?
Speaker 1:I mean them helping him at the end agreed, that's just that's it's the agreed is just incredible yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So that's the thunderbolts new avengers, however you want to call it, yep um I rated this movie.
Speaker 1:oh yep, this is my new bit where I rate movies okay. Um, you have 10 categories and then those 10 categories are out of 10 and then it'll give it a cinema score at the end. Oh okay, directing. I gave it a 9. You have to scale it a little bit because I know where this is coming from. This is a Marvel movie. I know where this is coming from. I guess on the Marvel scale you get into that 8, 9 range. I think Schreier just had he has a handle on this Like. This is his movie. That's how I feel about it and that's so much appreciated.
Speaker 1:The cinematography I gave an eight. Like in the middle of the movie, especially some of the Val scenes specifically for some odd reason, start to feel maybe the like the smallest bit like MCU-ish, if that makes sense comparatively to the rest of the movie. That's the only thing that knocked it down from being a 9. But the thing that got it back up to an 8 is you get some of these shots in these movies and you're just gushing over Acting. It's a 9. This is one of the best acting Marvel movies that we've gotten and that was what the early reviews were saying that these performances are remarkable. The writing I gave an 8 in terms of like the Marvel scale if you want to use that as well too, and it's just the themes Like to. You know to kind of execute, like, how do you execute theme? It's through the character. That's the only way the theme, like somebody has to live through it. So the editing I gave a 9 on that Marvel scale.
Speaker 1:Like this movie is edited tight, tightly, like they're not going to flex the editor, like you get an editor in the in the absolute trailer Like I did that for a reason.
Speaker 1:This movie is edited very well. Um, sound, I gave it a seven. Like it's standard. Like this is pretty solid. Like the sound mix is good. Like it's nothing. Like it's good. Like it's just it's good. Um, story, I gave it an eight. Like on that marvel scale as well, too. Like this is an eight. Like it's this is a very. This is a good story. Like you know, we talk about story. Like top good. We always use top gun is like our north star. When you're like what's the story of this movie? Old fire fighter pilot has one last chance to teach team. He has the lead team into the, into the mission. That's top gun maverick. This movie story is band of misfit assassins have to work together to save bob. That's. That's the thunderbolts. Yeah. Um, production design I gave it an eight. Like this movie. Like the actual their sets. They were not in some cgi place like the quantum realm.
Speaker 2:Like these are actual sets yeah, people move in the spaces movie like that or like love and thunder, and it's just, it's night and day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, theme nine, like this, is one of the best thematic pieces that I've ever seen the MCU use. To use mental health as a crutch for this movie um, I don't even want to say crutch, it uses this as a springboard. It's phenomenal. And then the score itself it's a 10. This is one of the single best scores inside of the MCU Point blank period. Son Lux is going to get all the work after this, which brings us to an 86% on the cinema score 86?
Speaker 2:That's pretty good, I 86.
Speaker 1:It's pretty good, that's pretty good. That's pretty good, yeah, any last thoughts on the, on the, on the, on the Thunderbolt.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I was just. I think this it feels nice to like see a movie through all the way. When it was like, when it was announced, we were like this could be fun and then we got, we started getting like the cast and crew together. We were like, okay, this could be, this could be something. And then that first trailer, we were like yes I said wait, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wait, wait a second. Does this movie have color grading?
Speaker 2:wait a second trailer came out and we were like, oh, this could be special. And then, coming out of having seen it, like it was that, um, and regardless of how it ends up doing at the box office, I hope they it's easy for me to say, because it's not my money, but I hope they look at how this movie was received, not just by like the hardcore fans, but like people who like movies, and they see how those people are receiving this movie and want to do more of that. Yes, and, and it feels like they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you look at Loki Wakanda, forever is like a special circumstance. You look at Guardians 3, which I guess in its own way it's a different why, but it's like its own special circumstance. That was James Gunn's last love letter to Marvel and we talk about Black Panther. The first was the Guardians. To get them there Like Guardians was the first springboard. To be like no, we're bulletproof. You guys don't understand. Yeah, this movie goes back to the other half of that of like no, this is just a good movie. Like that's in the confines of the MCU, it supersedes that. This is just a good movie.
Speaker 2:Front to back.
Speaker 1:And it feels like they are going that direction, because I think we both agree that fantastic four has even maybe more going for it than what this movie had. Yeah, I think fantastic, you know, after seeing this and like, obviously, you know, I even hate to use the word underperforming because some movies would kill to get the first 45 seconds of the box office return that this movie got. But I think Fantastic Four has a very good chance to make a billion. I truthfully think that you have Pedro Pascal leading that movie. It's the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 1:It's the last movie before the big team-up movie and Thunderbolts 2 is battling a cinematic juggernaut Not juggernaut, but it's battling kind of an unexpected box office performer with sinners yeah, and people are going back to see sinners and going, but like, yes, you know it's a tough spot to be in, so but you know, at the end of the day, the beauty of it is not looking at it from a capitalistic lens, it's looking at it from a like a cinematic and an enjoyment lens like that's what a freaking time to be alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I hope this movie does well enough, but I also hope that the box office at the end will be all where Marvel looks at it like, oh, this movie, you only made X amount of money, no more. Yeah, people really like this movie and liked the message and liked what it was about. So, yeah, do more of that.
Speaker 1:I guess would be my party message regarding this movie.
Speaker 2:That's going to do it for us this week. That was a great, great time. You can follow us on Twitter at Project Island F underscore pod. You can follow us on Facebook. You can follow us on YouTube and TikTok at Project Infinite Podcast. You can follow us on Instagram. That's a Project Infinite Podcast. You can follow us on Instagram. That's the Project Infinite Pod. Next week, we're going to talk about Andor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, apparently because they're doing the three, the arcs, apparently because we're 7, 8, 9 just came out and then next week it will be 10, 11, 12. That will be it, but apparently episodes 7, 8, and 9, people are saying it's not only in Star Wars, it's not only for Disney, this is some of the greatest television just ever, and that sounds hyperbolic, but I keep hearing it, I keep looking and people are like no, you don't understand. These episodes are just, they're them.
Speaker 2:He's him yeah, so next week we'll definitely be talking about Andor. Yeah, so next week we'll definitely be talking about Andor. Um, yeah, I'm really looking, I'm really looking forward to talk about it because man, special, special show, yeah Again, much like the Thunderbolts. I mean, we talked about it when we talked about Andor season one, like just did not expect it to be, what it is, no but I mean the through line.
Speaker 1:let what it is, no, but I mean the through line let the creators cook.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we'll talk about Andor next week. Thunderbolts is in the book. Next Marvel project is Fantastic Four.
Speaker 1:Wow, no it's Ironheart actually. Oh yes, ironheart comes out in June, which will be running well how many episodes? Six episodes, so it'll probably end right before Fantastic Four comes out.
Speaker 2:I have a bizarre feeling that they're just going to drop that whole series.
Speaker 1:They could At once, which I feel bad for Dominique Thornback if they do that, because I feel like she deserves more. Yeah, it just feels like. I feel like Riri Williams deserves more. It just feels like that's. Why are they? Well, I told you what I think happened. I think that Jonathan Majors was heavily in that show as um, whoever his corporate variant is, and I think they had to trash like 80 of the show and rework it yeah, so I just feel like ironheart is kind of part of that old guard.
Speaker 2:You know, 2020s it doesn't look bad though like it actually looks pretty bad like just conception wise and execution wise, it feels like part of like the content, content, content kind of arc that marvel was on for a while and it just feels like it feels like that they're done with that. Um, obviously, through daredevil, through this, through fantastic four, captain america 4 kind of sort of Captain America 4 was kind of like in the middle, like a mismatch of those things, and Ironheart was definitely part of that early. Like we're pushing, we're pumping content.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, they shot that show like three years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I just, I don't know. It just feels like they want to. I don't think they want that show to come out and like, and the season finale be the week before the Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Four it's going to get nuked unless they put something directly with. But why would they why?
Speaker 2:would they right? So I think there's a possibility that they either A drop the whole series or drop episodes in bunches. They could do 2-2-2, because it's six episodes, I'm presuming, so they could do 2-2-2, I think they, I think it's six, yeah, so they could do two, two and two, I think they might do, instead of doing it across, because I mean, daredevil didn't even do across nine weeks. No, they did two and then one, one, and then they did the two and then one, one, one, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:So I think it's entirely possible. They just drop that whole thing in Netflix style, right? Or they section it up Right. So section it up, right. So, ironheart, that are the Fantastic Four. We're still in the crux of some pretty good stuff. The Last of Us is obviously ongoing Wrapping up in three weeks.
Speaker 1:The Last of Us sucks.
Speaker 2:It sucks that it goes so quick. So that's it. We are done for the day, for the week. Thunderbolts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if you're going through a tough time, don't be afraid to ask for some help. I think that's what this movie taught a lot of people, and so it's all right, it's there. It gets dark, but you can get out of it. So never thought a Marvel movie would get to here. I just never thought so yeah.
Speaker 2:No for real it's yeah exactly. I think this movie resonates with a lot of people in a lot of different ways, which is super important. So for me, from the Right, you're going to say Red Guardian. No, I wasn't going to say.
Speaker 1:Red Guardian. You're going to say Bob.
Speaker 2:You're too old to be Red Guardian.
Speaker 1:You're too young to be Red Guardian.
Speaker 2:Which makes me perfect candidate to be, bob Say, the Bucky Barnes of the podcast. I'm still old.
Speaker 1:I'm older than Red Guardian.
Speaker 2:What are you talking about? Well, yeah, technically, but Bucky's cool, is he cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's real cool. I thought you were going to give me Bob no, no, no, there's a lot going on. I was on meth he said, bob, if your chicken self punches me one more time, I'm going to lose it.
Speaker 2:I was on meth. Yeah, the Bucky Barnes of the podcast great head of hair. Bucky did y the Bucky Barnes of the podcast Great head of hair. Bucky did yassify Bucky's hair man he showed up at the end in that post-credits scene.
Speaker 1:I was like whoa he went to whatever Spider-Man's hair guy in between Homecoming and Infinity War.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like whoa Bucky became an Avenger and now he's him. Yeah, who's the stylist for that team? Who's the stylist for the Avengers? It's what's her name. Who the Vowels person?
Speaker 1:No, it's Luke Jacobs.
Speaker 2:It would be Luke Jacobs. It would be Luke Jacobs. Goodbye, disaster.
Speaker 1:That guy was hilarious, yeah, he was.
Speaker 2:That guy was tremendous.
Speaker 1:You use jet fuel in your rocket boots, idiot man, imagine Tim Roth as the abomination with this crew. That would've been fun. I think it would've been a fun like full circle moment. Yeah, that would've been cool he, like you know who you would've related to the most. John, like I also am that soldier like that just is just following orders. Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool and maybe keep taskmaster alive taskmaster.
Speaker 1:All right, taskmaster, you were a real one well, I hope by the time they get to doomsday. Like they like, add more members. Like they add, like two or three members that are like from around the mcu yeah because, like you can just murder them. You know what I mean. Like, yeah, true, the entire multiverse is gonna end they and they're going to rescale it Redo everything, yeah, so it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:So they're going to kill the woke Avengers that you're so angry about?
Speaker 2:Oh, man, the woke Avengers.
Speaker 1:Shuri would be on the woke Avengers. Captain Marvel. Hey man, avengers, captain Marvel, hey man, you said it, not me. Um, um, I just the woke Avengers is a bit y'all it's a bit. Don't take it seriously on that hey, they made themselves woke, no they're gonna think you're being serious to woke Avengers all right, we're getting out of here, man.
Speaker 2:See you next week. We're gonna talk about Endor it. It's probably going to be depressing and the best show ever Yep, both of those things. Until then, goodbye Peace.
