The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
153 - Superman Previews, Mission Impossible, and The Last of Us Season 2
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We have never been more back! After a little month-long hiatus, we’re back to talk two of the major TV and movie releases of the spring: Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning and The Last of Us Season 2! Before that, we break down why we think James Gunn’s Superman is positioned to dominate the summer! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
01:38 The Latest on James Gunn’s Superman
14:19 Discussing Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning
44:38 The Last of Us Season 2 Stumbles to Success
01:15:15 Signing Off, Final Thoughts
Topic for Next Week: The On Screen History of Superman
As James Gunn's Superman enters its final promotional push, we're witnessing a renaissance for the Man of Steel – a colorful, optimistic vision that honors Christopher Reeve's legacy while embracing modern filmmaking techniques. With David Corenswet embodying Superman's essence so naturally, this film is positioned to dominate the summer box office and potentially reach the billion-dollar milestone.
Meanwhile, Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning proves Tom Cruise remains Hollywood's most committed action star. Despite the film's staggering $400 million budget, nothing compares to watching Cruise literally hang from a biplane or navigate a sinking submarine – practical stunts that demonstrate his unparalleled dedication to entertaining audiences.
The Last of Us Season 2 concludes with mixed results – visually stunning and brilliantly acted, particularly by Isabella Merced as Dina and Pedro Pascal in emotional flashbacks, but hampered by a reluctance to fully embrace Ellie's dark descent. By softening her moral deterioration compared to the game, the show creates an interesting dilemma where Kaitlyn Dever's brief but powerful appearance as Abby may position her as the more compelling protagonist heading into Season 3.
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It's the Infinite Podcast. Go tell your friends. It's the Infinite Podcast, my God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Robin Kork, the Cube.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom for movies, comics, tv shows, tvs.
Speaker 1:TVs Just. Tvs Just.
Speaker 2:TVs. We just talked TVs here. Yep, what's your take on the Sony Vio?
Speaker 1:whatever, it's not bad. I mean, I like TVs that have the Roku embedded into them. Smart TVs.
Speaker 2:I have a Google TV.
Speaker 1:Google TV's not bad. It's not bad If you're a YouTube connoisseur. Youtube TV's actually probably pretty premier, but I just think Roku covers all your bases.
Speaker 2:That's it. That's the TV talk.
Speaker 1:And shout out Mike TV from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Mike TV would love the TV corner of this podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the TV talk of the show, tv shows and video games. I'm Rob, I'm here, as always, with Court, court. We took a little we took a hiatus?
Speaker 1:Yes, we did, but we're so back.
Speaker 2:Much like Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part 1 and 2. Yeah, there was a hiatus.
Speaker 1:There was a hiatus, and then they came back.
Speaker 2:Gotta do. And then they came back. Gotta do those movies back to back. We'll talk about that. Yeah, we will. Um, yeah, so we're back took a little, took a little break.
Speaker 2:Uh, last episode was about the thunderbolts, um, which was good, yeah, and then this week we're going to talk about three things really. We're going to talk about superman, which is ramping up into full kind of promotion mode less than a month away from that movie. We'll talk about Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning, and we're going to recap kind of talk about just debrief on the Last of Us Season 2.
Speaker 2:Lots to talk about, about the Last of Us Critically and execution-wise and a bunch of other stuff. So we're going to forego. We don't really have a ton of news. Really, all our news is kind of like Superman related stuff. Right, like I said, it's going into promo mode. We got a bunch of trailers, we got, you know, magazine interviews, we got James Gunn talking about stuff. So I mean, where do you want to start with this?
Speaker 1:I mean we can talk promotion first and then we'll kind of dip into the trailers, because I the whole thought process and ideology behind a promotional run. I think this superman movie is hitting beat for beat for beat for beat and I know the concern when the run like not the run started but before was like nobody's talking about superman. And then I try to tell people all the time this is superman. Like I don't know where this big whole thing that superman is a b-list or c-list character came from. Like, if you go ask a kid like name three superman or name three superheroes, they're gonna say john henry irons. John henry irons, metallo. No, I'm kidding. They're gonna say batman, spider-man, superman, probably.
Speaker 1:If you ask them the names, if you ask younger kids, kids maybe they'd say like Captain America or Iron man, but like it's Superman, he is the archetype superhero.
Speaker 1:Like, and I was talking to somebody about this and they were kind of arguing with me about the fact that like is Superman a dead franchise? Like, can Superman pull weight? I said you're thinking about this from a perspective of like that me and you would think about it like that we're nerds and like we dive into all this stuff and the schneider stuff and all the reeve stuff and like all the things no, most people are thinking about. Oh, there's a new superman movie coming out and crypto the dog's in it and it looks fun and vibrant and I'm gonna go see that and I think the promotion is really hammering that home. I mean even dipping into leveraging david corn sweat and his like good natured human being and James gun himself, you know, as what he's done with his career, especially on a superhero front and a comic book movie front like they really hit something that I think is going to propel this movie to a billion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's probably a near certainty at this point. Um, it had the highest pre-sale ticket sales of any movie this year, which I mean, you know it's been as far as like blockbuster-y type movies. It's been light on that front, so I'm not totally surprised. No, that essentially the month of July is going to be owned by this movie and Fantastic Four, I mean, and what. But we always say don't rule out jurassic world yeah, those jurassic movies always do really well.
Speaker 2:Um, that franchise is, is is never, never as dead as it seems. Um, but yeah, I mean to your point, I think they're just hitting all the right. They're hitting all the right notes. Um, I think every trailer that they show for this movie, you know, has a similar kind of flavor, just kind of reinforcing the idea that, like, this is different, this is a different Superman than we've seen in the last decade or so. Um, you know, we're kind of mixing modern, you know James Gunn's kind of modern filmmaking style with the kind of ideals and feel of, you know, the Christopher Reeve era. Superman is kind of ideals and feel of. You know, the christopher reeve era superman is kind of what this is. It's like a mixture of those, those two things well, my, my, my through.
Speaker 1:My third one, and it's probably the most important one, and it's something that I don't think people are really equating for, because I feel like everybody works in such a movie lens. These characters come from somewhere and that's comics, and I feel like this iteration of superman is heavily pulling from a whole bunch of you know, you want that feel. I think james gunn has made a real great name for himself, like no matter what the comic run is, like pulling and understanding the vibrancy and the frequency that you need to operate on to make, you know, to really translate, because there's the adaptation, like there's logan, there's's the Logan way to do it, where you say film first, like we are making a film first and that's the first thing we need to worry about. And then there's something kind of akin to this where you know you're still worried, you know obviously the form you're, you know having this through is film. But also you know we want to have the comic book come to life. And I think you're looking at these other side characters.
Speaker 1:The final tickets on sale trailer really dove deep into that. I mean, you see Metamorpho in there. You see, you know the Justice Society, justice League in there the early iteration of the Justice League, like I think James and team is really starting to understand. I think there's like an obligation that this movie has and there's like there's pressure to this movie.
Speaker 2:Sure, there's tons of pressure.
Speaker 1:And I don't think people, I think the pressure is not everybody's tapped into the way of just like the Schneider gang versus. No, I think the pressure comes from making a summer blockbuster that can start a franchise and not only start the franchise because they did it in 2013,. Keep the franchise alive, keep this franchise going and at the end of the day, I just think a hopeful superman that runs up and kids come up and hug him and you know he's saving every bystander that he can and like that line in the in the official trailer always gets me where he's just like. You know I wasn't standing for anybody except for peace and good and he's just like if people were going to die, like that's his whole mo is save as many people as I can yep, yeah, and I mean you know from the jump, you know just seeing all the other type of characters that are gonna be involved in this movie.
Speaker 2:Like james gunn, when it comes to these superhero movies, has this gift where he gets you to care about every character that shows up, right, whether it's the guardians of the galaxy, whether it it's in the Suicide Squad.
Speaker 1:Like you know, made Bloodsport kind of like a household name, right yeah?
Speaker 2:Shit got Peacemaker an entire spinoff.
Speaker 1:You're talking Peacemaker. What about you know the whole first lineup of the Guardians of the Galaxy? Nobody knew who Star-Lord was in 2014.
Speaker 2:Yeah, self-included. Our lord was in 2014. Yeah, self, self, self included. Right present company included, like I just saw it, because it was a marvel movie and it was fun and then ended up being one of my favorite superhero movies of all time, right? So, um, I have no doubt that. You know he, he has a gift when it comes to getting people to care about characters, and obviously it's going to work with the core superman cast, but I also think it's going to work with the core Superman cast, but I also think it's going to work with the likes of Hawkgirl, green Lantern, you know, et cetera. I think you know that's going to work in his favor as well. And you know this movie is, I think it's going to be positioned to be probably like the movie of the summer, and it's just a good time.
Speaker 1:Like I really I've been saying this, like I really think this could be the superhero version of Barbenheimer, but just in the Fantastic Four, it's the positioning of the way the movies are, because at this point, from for the, for the MCU, people will go see it regardless. People will go off of that alone, people will go to see it. I think that move, I think people are underwriting something for fantastic four and that's the power of Pedro Pascal, which we're going to talk about today. Like he will get people in the seats. That with himself the fantastic four is a franchise from this 1960s aesthetic will get people in seats. And this is, you know, the last movie to come out before Doomsday, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because? Oh yeah, because they delayed Doomsday to December. So it's going to be weird. We're not going to get a Marvel movie for a year and a half, which is interesting in of itself, unless something magically pops up in the doomsday spot.
Speaker 1:Oh no, brand new day I think yeah so it's gonna be a year away from spider-man, but what I think's gonna happen is superman is gonna be like it's gonna bypass all of like the nerd stuff and just be a really good summer blockbuster movie with, like you know, the superhero, like the world's superhero, and I think kids are gonna love it. Like this seems like a movie like bring the whole family to the movie, and then Fantastic Four is also going to double back off of that. I think people like us are probably going to see both movies in the same day and you know what a better time to be here, what a better time to be around.
Speaker 2:We can speculate, do all these things but at the end of the day, best time ever. Yeah, no, I, I agree, I think it's. I think it's silly to kind of pit these two movies against each other and just enjoy them for what they are, right. I don't know if that sounds like lame, like centrist, like enjoy everything, but that's kind of the like. There's never, there's never been. There's a manufactured rivalry.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's not an actual rivalry no, no this is like to that point, like what's his name? James Gunn was talking about it. Yeah, I talked to Zack Snyder about the trunks before and everybody's like you need to either believe in one or why. Why is that such a prerequisite thing that needs to be mandated?
Speaker 2:Right, I don't understand it. The tribalism thing will always kind of baffle me. But yeah, I think we're trending in a good direction with Superman, which I mean from the onset of all of this. I think neither of us are terribly surprised that this is where this is culminating. No, just because I mean you talk about all the time the personnel piece Mm-hmm, you know that's what always gets us Right. You know when you're like, oh, this person's doing this and you're like, yeah, everybody was over the mood when the Suicide Squad came out.
Speaker 1:Obviously, guardians 3 was like we didn't even like. It was to the point where, like, guardians 3 is such a separate piece of where that current MCU was at that time in 2023. It it's such a separate piece of where that current MCU was at that time in 2023. It was such this special film that was coming out. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:Usually we always go for, like you know, the crew on this movie, but I want to focus on the cast for this movie. Um, david corn sweat is probably the most inspired choice. Well, there's so many actors in hollywood that have, like, had accounts of, like talking to dave and they're like, oh, that's just superman, like, that's literally just superman. Like jack quaid was in an interview and he was just like, yeah, like, yeah, like David's my friend, but like he said, he was like thinking about, like the Superman audition. But then David was there and he's like, oh no, like there's no shot that I will ever be able to play a live-action Superman if somebody like this exists, like, but it's not just the look, it's the feel Like he actually feels like Superman, he actually feels like Clark Kent.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then my favorite casting out of this whole thing, for some reason it's Nicholas Holt as Lex Luthor. Like I think we're about to see a villain that's going to stay around for a while. Like don't kill him off, don't do anything, just let him, you know, have his machinations in the shadows for as long as you need. To be Rachel Brosnahan, I mean, like she actually seems like a they've never.
Speaker 1:They've never missed on a lois lane casting no no, like she seems like a little, like she seems tough and strong and like doesn't take any crap from clark or superman at that, to that fact, which is great. So no, I I think they have everything nailed. Like I think they have everything down packed and like it's the in james gunn, we trust piece, like I don't know why it's such an insane statement to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah for sure. I mean, that's really it as far as Superman. Like we're less than four weeks away from seeing this thing Actually, about three weeks into the day from when we'll be seeing this thing, which is kind of crazy. I love this time. I love this time where the thing that we've been talking about for months finally manifests Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was crazy. It's when the tickets on sale trailer came out. I'm like we're a month away. The whole ticket sale, like the ticket sites were crashing. Like I genuinely think this movie is going to make a billion and I was skeptical like two months ago. Three months ago, I was a little nervous that this movie was going to make in the 700 range. But I think to kind of credit myself back. I mean, like I said, if you're tapped out of all the nerddom, like this is still a super, a prime superman movie coming out in the middle of the summer. Like this is primed to me. Like kids are gonna love this movie. Like families are gonna love this movie. This is a two hour nine minute movie. People are probably gonna go see this movie again. Like this movie has everything built for it to make and it's hopeful. Like it seems like something like you're gonna feel good after watching this movie. Like so be it, I'm glad like let's just have a good time at the movies, as tom cruise would say.
Speaker 2:Yeah speaking of tom. What a transition, great transition. Um mission impossible. The final reckoning released, uh, a couple weeks ago. Um, it is the direct sequel to mission impossible dead reckoning um previously titled dead reckoning. Part two um dead reckoning came out less than two years ago, but it feels like it came out a hundred years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know why that movie felt like it came out in like 2015, yet fallout still came out in 2018 I think this movie, the way this movie is structured, is part of the reason why it feels like Dead Reckoning came out 100 years ago, because this movie also makes it seem like Dead Reckoning came out 100 years ago Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this movie notoriously was shot pretty much right after the first one Right shot pretty much like right after the first one right um. But obviously you know this got switched around. The pandemic and all this stuff um makes this a weird kind of almost disjointed right duo of movies. Right um, and I guess you know we could talk about. This movie had a $400 million budget. Yes, it's going to make about $500 to $600 million by the time it's done, which is you know that's pretty.
Speaker 1:I hope it makes the $600 million. But if you're talking about straight return on investment, that's where you start to get a little nervous. I have a feeling that Tom knew this was the last Mission Impossible movie he would make. So he said let's run the bill up.
Speaker 2:They ran the bill up. They ran that bill up. They ran the bill up. They ran the runtime up.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah they did.
Speaker 2:They ran up the flashbacks, they did. Let's talk about this movie a little bit, just general thoughts. I mean, it was obviously this movie. These movies are always built around the spectacles. We got two pretty big ones. I think I liked the first one better than this one.
Speaker 1:I think Dead Reckoning Part 1 is more cohesive. You know what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking this movie is it's not as Vice versa. I'm thinking about I'm thinking this movie is it's not as it's no vice versa. I'm thinking of no Time to Die as a like, as a way to like North Star myself for the way that this movie is. It's like it's an homage to that franchise, but it ends the franchise. I think no Time to Die does it better and a little bit more direct of this is the end piece to this franchise. However, I'm sorry, I don't know if this is the end piece to this franchise. However, I'm sorry, I don't know if this is outrageous. Outrageous to say dead reckoning part one is a better film through and through.
Speaker 1:I had some fun watching this movie. It is. It is just bring back cackling villains. Let's start there. Let's start with gabriel, let's start with the villain of this movie, then we'll work our way back up yeah, I mean, I guess the thing that kind of jarred me he didn't come off as that in the first movie.
Speaker 1:No, he was like cold and calculated and I wonder if it was. You know what I was thinking about. This movie technically was the beginning summer blockbuster. I think was mission impossible. So I can see as when they kind of transitioned into the way, because I think they probably reworked this movie a good amount and you know, obviously movies like this kind of have to are encompassing of the world events that are going on too. I don't think people think about that sometimes, like when things are happening in the world, like that are touchy subjects, like studios might be like maybe we should pivot a little bit, and I think some of that might have happened. Narratively, I think, and it could be simple as like narrative, like something they were like this just isn't working. Like we're trying it, it's not working. We need to go about some things a little differently. Not that this movie feels disjointed, like it's still well edited, but I can definitely see some differences that were made at some points.
Speaker 2:And it has, like the differences have to do with, I think, the antagonistic force from the first one. In the first one, the entity and Gabriel, by proxy, came across as this like anywhere, anytime, you don't know what's real Da-da-da-da-da, and they touch upon that in this but you never really feel that.
Speaker 1:No, no, not overtly Like it's more.
Speaker 2:The plot and the brush up against the entity is much more straightforward than it was in the first movie. Right In the first movie it was like we don't know what's real we don't know, like we don't know how to catch Gabriel, we don't know how to stop the entity. In this movie it's like oh no, we have to stop it, we just have to do.
Speaker 1:We just have to do it do what you would say an impossible mission also you know, I guess we'll we'll step on the ending real quick.
Speaker 2:A little bit did this feel like the last one?
Speaker 1:to you. No, no, it felt like there. It felt like very. You know what this gave me vibes of at the very, very, very end of ghost protocol, where they had like a brand new team that they just had put together. But even he doesn't feel out of it. No, no, if anything, he might be the most in he's ever been. He might actually be the most. Back After Fallout he was probably out. He's like I'm done, I can't do this anymore. This sucks. Saw my wife again that I thought was dead and she's alive.
Speaker 2:In this one. He has the box and he's just like, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:See you later. Good job team.
Speaker 2:We'll see you for the next Mission Impossible. I'm like wait, you're supposed to be done after this, yeah, how many impossible missions do we have left? Yeah, so we can just kind of talk about it. So this movie is set two months after the first one, the end of the first one. It feels like it's been 500 years. Yeah, his hair got way longer in two months, yep. And pretty much the idea is they have the key. Remember the key. Yes, the key from the end of the first one Immediately loses it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, they never have the keys, immediately loses it.
Speaker 2:But basically this movie is a race against time. The entity is hijacking the nuclear arsenals of every major world superpower and he's just going to. He's going to Ultron, this bitch, yeah, he's going to peace in our time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, basically, the entity is like turning the world against itself, like it's taking public opinion and skewing it. Bit on the nose, the Entity, don't you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Entity is going full Ultron.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:Peace in our time. We're going to destroy the Earth. Use the stones to destroy the stones. You did what the Entity's going to nuke the Earth and then from the ashes of that, We'll build a better one, will we?
Speaker 1:No, we never do, we just can't seem to ever figure that part out.
Speaker 2:I don't think the entity thought this plan through. This is my take. Yeah, Because I think even when Ethan goes into the weird entity chamber and talks to the entity, he's like you're going to destroy the world. And chamber and talks to the entity, he's like you're going to destroy the world, and then what? And the entity's like mind your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, basically Yep.
Speaker 2:He shows Ethan, or it shows Ethan everything that has happened, everything that will happen, Right, and Ethan's like. I know what I must do. We have to do the thing that the entity isn't prepared for but is also prepared for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the entity definitely was prepared for everything.
Speaker 2:It was. It was just a matter of like can we do this fast enough?
Speaker 1:Yeah, can this fit into a three hour run time? We'll see.
Speaker 2:We'll see that's the true and possible mission man. There's a lot in this movie. I made the joke to you in the theater after the submarine bit. I'm like there's a whole nother act. There's a whole nother movie. That was quick.
Speaker 1:Well, all right, so I guess we can keep talking plot, Then we can kind of move to action. Um, but it's all over the place. It is, it, is it, it is, it's, it's dense, it's, it's extremely dense. But like, I'm sorry, I was in like I was in, like, I think it's, because last year I re, or right before dead reckoning, part one came out like I re-watched every single mission impossible up into that one. So like my brain still was, like I was so all in on it and I still am, so from that perspective I was having so much fun. Like tom cruise's dedication to this it's, it's absurd. Like that brother needs some help, that's what powers this whole movie?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's, it's tom. It's tom cruise. He's just like he's doing this. He is doing this. He's absurd. Is he the cackling villain? Like he's up, he's so about the missions, like he's so ready to die at any turn. I love it. He loves it. I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only other character in this movie that loves the game more than Ethan is Tramiel Tillman's character.
Speaker 1:Oh, so I had to rename. One of our heat check performance award has officially been renamed. What's his name? Captain Jack Bledsoe. Yeah, captain Bledsoe, heat check performance award. Holy moly, if you're going to poke the bear, what did he say? If you're going to poke the bear, you came to the right one, or something like that. He said mister, mister, he keeps calling him mister. He's got so much aura he actually might have invented aura. I thoroughly enjoy that yeah.
Speaker 1:For those of you who don't know, he's really risen to fame since Severance had come out, but he's so awesome. He's amazing Like they just throw cameos Not cameos, but like they throw people like Nick Offerman's in here. Hannah Waddingham, I think that's how you say her name. She's in this movie. Yeah, like they just keep throwing people into this movie and it's great, it's amazing. But so, yeah, what's the plot of this movie?
Speaker 2:I mean we're stopping the entity again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so basically the Entity is like I want all the nuclear arsenals, the.
Speaker 2:Entity has, also Because we talked about before that Ethan Hunt is the living manifestation of destiny. The Entity has kicked Gabriel to the curb and has chosen Ethan as his new avatar Now here's my question why wouldn't you start with that With Ethan Hunt?
Speaker 1:He's done every impossible mission and that's the guy and you want to go with Gabriel. What's Gabriel done?
Speaker 2:Kill Ethan Hunt. He's done every impossible mission and that's the guy. And you want to go with Gabriel. What's Gabriel done? Kill Ethan Hunt's girlfriend. Yeah, ethan is. He's this universe's version of Jesus Christ, and I wish I was being facetious when I said that, but the plot tells you that.
Speaker 1:The plot of these movies. Yeah, that was always meant to be Ethan they literally call him the living manifestation of destiny. Yeah, he said, it was always meant to be him.
Speaker 2:I saw a thing that was like you know if. What was it? I think it was like John Wick, ethan Hunt, james Bond and I forget who the other person was like going to like a room and battle it out. Manifestation of destiny he is destined to win at all times. It's nuts.
Speaker 1:It is nuts.
Speaker 2:It's crazy that this, like semi grounded spy thriller has given us like a messiah figure. Yeah, but that's what these movies have done and it's kind of hilarious, so yeah, so the entity has kicked Gabriel to the curb and has chosen Ethan as it's avatar to fulfill it's purpose, which is nuclear holocaust, and Ethan's like nah, but why would the entity want to do that?
Speaker 1:we still don't know. There's two things. One is a franchise thing, one is the movie thing. One of the franchise things that's really been bugging me is Gabriel's character lacks, and it's going to relate back to the entity. But who's Gabriel's character Like? I don't think you know what I was thinking. Well, we were building it and then it just never. And you can use ambiguity to a certain extent the right way. This was not the right way to how to accentuate ambiguity, because it leaves something. It leaves my care for gabriel out of the window, because I don't care. I don't know what his beef is like. I don't understand why him and ethan are so, because dead reckoning, part one is so encompassing that gabriel is like ethan's, like it's his last, like this, is like his, like arch nemesis, and they never give you anything as to why they hate each other no.
Speaker 2:And then it's like in this movie, the motive, the motive is completely flip.
Speaker 1:Well you know that he killed, but like, who did he kill? Like, why do I care that he killed? Like, who is this woman that he killed?
Speaker 2:and he's also positioned as, like ethan's, kind of equal. Yes, not physically, though no more. Like you know, he's kind of like one. Yes, not physically, though no more. Like you know, he's kind of like one step ahead.
Speaker 1:Because the entity's helping him no well, I guess not. See, this is the confusion part.
Speaker 2:The only time he's one step ahead in this movie is when he kills Luther, but then he's, but Luther's the most ahead, Like he's Finneas Freak, like he's the most ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's why it kind of this movie has a villain problem, but also Because, like there's no, gabriel's not, gabriel takes a step back from being like a formidable foe Right and the entity is never really like there, mm-hmm, in the way that it was in the first movie, like when you're just like, oh, it could be anywhere, it could be anything, it's manipulating this, this and this, like it's really just like it's busy in this movie Like just hijacking all the nuclear arsenals, right, and it literally just becomes Tom Cruise and his crew against time.
Speaker 2:Right, he is destiny fulfilled, and you know he and he, like he knows everything that's going to happen Because he saw it already and he just has to not do it. Also, you know what bugs me? That plot point where he tells Grace don't go on the ice. That never manifested in anything. She goes on the ice, she pulls him out of the ice if anything. No, she didn't pull.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, she did, but they did it a different way. I guess Is it to show that the entity is beat? I don't know what the idea is, but like, here's the thing From a, turn your brain off and enjoy the cinema perspective.
Speaker 2:I was in. Yeah, I love the spectacle. The submarine bit is pretty great.
Speaker 1:That's where the movie kicks it Like really kicks into that third gear and you know, dead Reckoning part one is a structured film Like that's the one that you want to go for. Like this mysterious entity is controlling the physical villain, which is Gabriel, and Ethan finally has a comp to himself, like a physical and emotional comp, and we're going to get the whole story of what their true beef is in the set. Nope, nope, nope. My man from the CIA from the first movie is back and he's in this movie a lot and I like him a lot. He was great. He was great. What's his name? I always forget his name.
Speaker 2:The character's name.
Speaker 1:I always forget his name. What is his name? Why am I forgetting? I forget, he forgets too.
Speaker 2:He was a minor character in the first one. This movie does a lot of weird, not weird. Some of the retconning work. Some of the retcon is totally ridiculous, right, like the fact that the rabbit's foot from Mission Impossible 3 was the original source code for the entity.
Speaker 1:No, it wasn't. I knew they were going to try to do something earlier from the franchise the CIA the callback to one absolutely works Right, like bringing that guy back and that whole time.
Speaker 2:That absolutely works.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The MI3 callback with the rabbit's foot? No, that doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's retconning and callback for the sake of retconning and callback, yeah yeah, because there was a biological weapon there.
Speaker 1:It was a biological weapon, just cut it out.
Speaker 2:It had the biohazard thing on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's stop it. Let's not do that, do that, let's not do it. Um, yeah, what else? What else about this movie? I mean we can go go down the characters in this movie, like I mean we could stop. Start with tom cruise. He's, he's absurd, he's amazing, he's, he's just phenomenal. Like there's not enough words in the english language to say how great he is as ethan hunt yeah he fits the bill, like he's just you can tell.
Speaker 2:Like you can tell he's getting older, like yeah they do a whole action sequence offscreen, mm-hmm, which is great.
Speaker 1:It's a great bit Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:When it's just the close-up, it's the shot, it's just.
Speaker 1:Grace, the camera's just on Hayley Atwell yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're just hearing like it's like cartoons, yeah, and then it cuts back to Ethan and everyone's dead and he's like alright, we gotta go. I really enjoyed that as a masking of like yeah, we're not gonna give Tom Cruise. He does get a little fight scene though. Yeah, he does In the submarine. Yeah, he fights that one guy Because the Entity has a cult, which makes sense, I guess.
Speaker 1:I do agree with that that the Entity has these followers that are like the world does need to end. Why do people fall for it? Cut it out. They've been tricked. You know what's funny about all those cults that the world needs? You're gonna be so mad when you see. Look up, you're like maybe it didn't need to end. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a second. Not me, not me. I didn't. I didn't mean me. I just I meant maybe like a lot of us. Um, not me, not me. I didn't mean me. I just I meant maybe like a lot of us.
Speaker 2:Hayley Atwell's character is back. Grace, I like her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's a great. You know I have a personal love for Rebecca Ferguson, but she's still great. She's amazing. I love what they do with her character. I love characters that kind of ascend into something you know what I mean Like ascend into a little bit of a higher calling. I really appreciated that and like her skills are actually useful.
Speaker 2:Tom Cruise kiss a woman in a movie. Challenge no no he refused.
Speaker 1:No, why would he do something so blasphemous He'll get?
Speaker 2:really close to the point where it's like it's weird that it doesn't happen. Will they, Won't they?
Speaker 1:No, they won't. They actually won't. We don't know.
Speaker 2:If they do, it'll be off screen.
Speaker 1:Yeah it will be off screen.
Speaker 2:She also has a little bit of living manifestation of destiny vibes Like. You're the only person that can snatch this fast enough.
Speaker 1:Is she on the planet?
Speaker 2:Eight hundredths of a millisecond or whatever it was. She needed to do that, but she's good. She kind of is like the A plot, b plot. This movie had Fast and Furious what was it? 10? This movie had Fast X vibes where it was like Ethan by himself doing a mission and then the team doing a mission. I was like what are we doing here? What is this? And I think that's I honestly think that's COVID related. I think they had to kind of splice this thing together where like they needed.
Speaker 2:you know, he had to be by himself, and then they had to be by himself, and then they had to be by themselves.
Speaker 1:It's crazy because, like my brain in the year of 2025 is like that's no longer affecting movies. Yes, it does, yes it does and yes, it has.
Speaker 2:We can talk about Ving Rhames real quick yeah. He's not in this much. Don't do it, ethan.
Speaker 1:Spoiler alert Luther, dies he gets exploded, yeah, but he goes out like a real G.
Speaker 2:He does, it's the end of the world, brother, brother.
Speaker 1:Ethan said my black friend, please, please, don't do it.
Speaker 2:But you're right, luther, as much as the entity, was 10 steps ahead. Luther was 15 steps ahead. He was.
Speaker 1:Like you're talking about the Phineas Freak. What is his name? The Phineas Freak.
Speaker 2:He knew everything that was going to happen. He did know it To the point where he left a message for Ethan after the thing was done, it was plugged in to the source code.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why couldn't they just use my point and make him the one that actually, why do the rabbit's foot thing where the entity could have came from Luther before Mission Impossible 1? Yeah, that would be cool because then it would have been like then luther's sacrifice would have been like like go right my wrongs, like I, yeah, like I, I proved over the last x amount of movies that, like I didn't mean to bring the world to the brink. But, like you know, this is the last. You know I will kill the thing that I, that I did, I just need to sacrifice my life. It would have contextualized it, I think, a little bit. I think it would have streamlined it a little bit more. I think his death would have meant a little bit more because, like I wasn't teary-eyed when he died, like I've had character deaths where I've been teary-eyed, like that didn't really get me. It's sad, it sucks. Like ving rames is amazing, but in terms of where that movie was headed and how much information is being shoved into your head like it didn't hit me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's. This movie is subsequently really long, but also doesn't spend enough time on the stuff, the character stuff, which I mean I'm not expecting that in this movie anymore. Simon Pegg is in this as Benji. I think this is probably the best he's been in these movies.
Speaker 1:He kind of pulls the fits from Agents of SHIELD card, where he finally has gotten all the way up to being like no, I want you to be a pseudo-leader of this team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's his whole arc. He becomes the leader of the field team. Versus when he first starts, that's a full 180 arc. Like he's still and he's like leading. Like he gets shot and he's still giving out instructions. Like his lung is collapsing and he's still telling her how to you know how to hack into the mainframe, for lack of a better term.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pom Clemente fits back as the assassin. I think she's phenomenal, she's great.
Speaker 1:Put her in every action movie ever. Put her in John Wick. Put her and Caddy O'Brien, who's in this movie, in John Wick. Yeah, they're the most John Wick-encoded people ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, she just wants to kill Gabriel Yo great. Good, good, very good. I love it. Shea Whigham is back, as again. This is another retcon that is a little bizarre that he's John Voight's son. We were in the theater, like what. That doesn't track. Come on, man, he's like I never knew him. But you killed him. I hate you.
Speaker 1:All right, man. As much as intelligence is your lead to believe, you still think your dad was a good person. Ethan was good. After that they said good job on killing Jon Voight Right.
Speaker 2:We get Angela Bassett and her crew of characters.
Speaker 1:She's the president now.
Speaker 2:Yep, she's always phenomenal, she's great yeah.
Speaker 1:There's not a crazy amount that you could go about. She delivers every single time, both line delivery and just delivery. On the performance, it's amazing every single time.
Speaker 2:We got my guy from Mindhunter. It's amazing. Every single time we got my guy from Mindhunter, it's their secretary of defense. He said you can't do this.
Speaker 1:They were beefing in the situation room, madam.
Speaker 2:President launched the missiles. She's like no, I won't. Actually I'm going to let Ethan Hunt she's the only person in this franchise that trusts Ethan Hunt to do the thing. How many times I did like that bit where Nick Offerman breaks down all the other Mission Impossible movies. Yep, he's like you did this, you did this, you did this, you gassed the security council. And that was two months ago. That was two months ago. That was in Mission Impossible, dead Reckoning, part 1. We already talked about Tramiel Tillman, the best, the best character in this movie. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, at the end of this thing, he, just he, he does it, they do, they do the impossible mission. What there's a great I mean the biplane bit is oh, let's, let's, let's, let's talk about it for a second.
Speaker 1:What? Tom cruise is the coolest guy maybe ever, and this is to my point of like. Bring back cackling villains, because Gabriel's just, he's having the grandiose time of his life. Y'all never catch me, ethan. He's flipping the plane upside down. Tom Cruise is holding on for dear life. I'm like Tom, you just. They made CGI years ago. Tom, you don't have to do this. He said shut up, get me on that plane.
Speaker 2:I'm going. It's mesmerizing to watch.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite bit no-transcript, because if you're at this point in the career of mission impossible and like this is the level you're working at, both, for you know the submarine sequence and the plane sequence the first act is missing a truthfully inspired action sequence in there too.
Speaker 2:I think that's probably why people were so like and it's a long movie, so like, you need a gripper right out of that first act yeah, it doesn't really have one um, but the plane, the plane bit, is absolutely insane, like there's really no other, there's really no other way around it. Like it's, and I love like the cutting back and forth to like the team and ethan on the biplane and it's, it's really, really good. And then the way Gabriel dies is shocking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Gets ripped to shreds. It was visceral. Yeah, he splits his head on the tail of the plane and you're like ooh.
Speaker 2:Yep, Shit, my bad. It's very sudden. It is You're like whoa, and then he jumps out of the plane. We have a. We have a a broken parachute bit where it's like one last bit of like. Oh no, but of course he's going to be fine.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:You forgot. You're talking about Ethan Hunt. Ethan Hunt, um, and then the movie ends. And was it the final reckoning? Doesn't seem like it.
Speaker 1:No, I mean overall, like a franchise ender, I think they're going to pivot, yeah, so yeah, they're going to pivot and Tom Cruise is going to step out. I do, I genuinely.
Speaker 2:He'll step back in, don't worry.
Speaker 1:He's not out. I think he's going to move on to something else.
Speaker 2:Like I think he's going talked to Glenn Powell and said you're taking this from me. He'll come back, He'll be the head of the IMF or whatever.
Speaker 1:That would be cool if he was the head of the IMF. But he's so good. Why wouldn't you just have him in the field?
Speaker 2:That's what I mean. These types of movies it's supposed to be like. These types of movies it's supposed to be like. This is the last. The person's a little bit past their prime, but they're roped into one last mission. That's not what this is. This just felt like another mission. He doesn't feel like he's out Right, so I don't know. Yeah, that's a good point. Why would you take him out of the field if he's still extremely, supremely capable, more than any mortal person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just think you pivot. You take him out, you insert Blood Pal or another movie star. You bring Tramiel Tillman in yeah, you gotta find a way to get Blood, so him specifically back into this franchise. Obviously, pom, you have to get back, you have to keep her, I think, to the point I don't think you just get Cady O'Brien right there and just never use her again. I feel like she's going to be somebody that's going to. You just need to pivot into a new direction for Mission Impossible. Give a younger director the franchise itself.
Speaker 2:I think maybe you have to scale it back a little bit, I think, because this got so franchise itself. I think maybe you have to. You scale it back a little bit. I think you, because this got so crazy.
Speaker 1:I think what you know why fallout works so well.
Speaker 1:Fallout still deals with the espionage of the mission impossible and I think we can get back one, yeah, one, five, one ghost, no, probably um, one rogue nation, fallout probably deal the best with the espionage half and then, like, also fallout deals with the best of the action, but dead reckoning, part one deals heavily with the action, three deals heavily with the action. Like you have to find a way to pick. But I think you find a new leading, like if it's austin butler, if it's a glenn powell archetype, if it's like a desmond edris archetype, like somebody to lead the franchise and what you can do like you can't really without Cruise.
Speaker 2:You can't build the movies around the big insane stunt anymore because no actor is going to be willing to do what he's doing Sure. So you can justify scaling the franchise back a bit by not having Cruise there, because you're not going to build the freaking movie around a big insane plane stunt Like you can actually craft a movie that's like espionage, tactical based.
Speaker 1:Like the beginning of one. One does a really great job of like ingratiating you to like that team especially and like, and then the team goes and you're like oh, shoot, like it's already on Right. Team goes and you're like, oh, shoot, like it's, it's already on right. Like the positioning of it as well, too. I I always say it about fallout. Fallout's one of the greatest action movies that's ever been made, because fallout has this like echo to it, like it's like it's got.
Speaker 1:I hate to use the word aura, because aura has been now taken but like fallout has this aura around it where, like it breathes and lives, which I think is something truthfully remarkable. If you can get the echoes of Fallout and you can get the espionage of Mission Impossible 1 and Rogue Nation, I just think you need to kind of pivot a little bit and, like you said, scale back the spectacle aspect but get back into the espionage, get back into the hand-to-hand, especially, who's to say, stahelski might not want to take a Mission Impossible movie I know he's a busy guy but who's to say, somebody like that doesn't want to do it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I think that's the direction this franchise is going to go in, Because the franchise they're going to make these movies until forever.
Speaker 1:Oh 100%.
Speaker 2:As long as Cruise is alive, they're going to make these movies, because he's just going to keep making them. He'll just, I think he'll slide into an executive producer role in these movies, which he already is, but he's going to oversee it, make sure that the franchise is staying true to his vision for them. And, like I said, I wouldn't be shocked if he shows up in some type of minor role capacity and like oh yeah, um, because he's definitely ethan's definitely not out after this, he gave no.
Speaker 2:The funny thing is like he didn't even give any indication that he wanted to be out.
Speaker 1:No no, if anything he's like now I need to make sure the world stays safe, like in these, like in these again, these kind of like final chapter movies.
Speaker 2:Like the character at least laments the fact that, like ah man, like I, you know, I was kind of hoping this would be it he does not give that button at all.
Speaker 1:No, he of anything, he wants more. He's a sicko. He is a sicko. You know who else is a sicko sometimes. Joel Miller is a sicko sometimes, true.
Speaker 2:Great segue. Yeah, the Last of Us, season 2,. Man, we talked about a few of the episodes on here and then I guess we could just kind of recap where we ended up. So, seven episode season of the hbo critically acclaimed show. Um, we had lots of, lots of thoughts, lots of speculation on if they would do anything different or, you know, change up the right, the pacing, or change up the the kind of structure of the story of the last of us, part two turns out they, just they, they just did the Last of Us Part 2?
Speaker 2:They just felt they just did that and I would say it was weird. It was weird. It was. Subsequently A lot happened, but they, I think the stuff, I understand why they focus on certain things that they focus on, but I also think it served to the detriment of the narrative of the stuff that happened in Seattle that they felt rushed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate to break it because I still think this is a great season of television. Oh, I think so.
Speaker 2:I think it's very well done yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know you increase the stakes, you increase the, the narrative drive as well too. I think what truthfully hurts is it, like you said, it's the seattle, it's. There's something that's unmistakable from the game about the seattle day one, two and three. And then you go back for abby and it's seattle day one, two and like something feels lessened from the. It's like the impact of Seattle one day one, two and three feel less impactful, Like if you were going to do it this way, which I agree, like it's funny, Cause we were like are they going to do it this way, this way?
Speaker 1:And they were like they actually just did the game and we were like we didn't equate for them, just doing the game, yeah yeah if you're gonna go that way, if you're gonna choose that route.
Speaker 2:I think my biggest thing is ellie's hands are not dirty one bit no, they, they soften a lot of those moments quite a bit, um, like the I mean the major, the major kind of. There's in my mind. There's three to four major moments in the game that signify Ellie's kind of descent into depravity, right, and they kind of either completely erase them in the show Right, or they soften them to almost incidental Right, with the exception, I will say, of the Nora bit. The Nora bit felt as close to the game, as more closer to the game than any of the other moments. Um, I think they did that really really well. But the thing I'm thinking, the moments I'm thinking of, are the one where that they, they totally changed the dynamic of the dina pregnancy reveal in a way that lessens again, lessens ellie's descent to depravity, because in the game, as soon as dina talks about being pregnant, ellie's immediate response is oh, now you're a liability.
Speaker 2:I think she even outright says it in the game like you're kind of you're holding me back. Now we're in the show. It's kind of treated as this oh, this is a sweet moment, I'm going to be a dad kind of bit. She says a lot about becoming someone else but it's never really shown. And then the other bit obviously is the bit with Mel and Owen which again comes across in the show almost accidental. Where in the game it's very intentional, like what she ends up doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah like even down to the bits in the game where Ellie's hands shaking and she's really starting to see the cycle really starting to repeat itself. Like you know, the trials and tribulations of joel miller going to the next generation, and you know they kind of lob it for themselves and it's, you know, cameo from tony dalton time, when and when joel comes back later in the season, that line of like I hope you do a little better than me next time. And then ellie, just she can't, she can't, she physically can't, like she's a violent. And they set it up again with um, with the therapist character, with Gale as well too, where Gale's like anything she's doing isn't because of Joel, she has it in her. So a little a big part of me wishes like I think that's the simple fix, is like she needed to get her hands dirty, like that's why she is who she is, like she's about that life, like she's it's ingrained into her she doesn't.
Speaker 2:Besides, like I said, besides nora, she never really goes out of her way to kill anybody, which I mean it sounds, it sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining.
Speaker 2:But like the whole show, the whole game of last of us, part two, is built around this premise that, like Ellie, is so consumed by vengeance that she can't see the forest for the trees, and the show never, it never, really feels like it gets there Right.
Speaker 2:Again, aside from the Nora bit, I think the Nora bit is as close as you can get and maybe they think, maybe they thought that was enough, maybe they thought that the bit with Nora was enough to show that she's kind of consumed by the vengeance, right, but for me that almost felt out of that, weirdly enough, that felt out of character, because the rest of the show did not tell me that, that, that she was going, that she was feeling that strongly about it, right, um, um, cause, even like I liked the bit where, where they, where she kind of like says her piece in Jackson and then, but like at the same time, like it's a lot, it's again, it softens it a little bit that she's just not like night out route, defiant, and leaves you know, um, and then I mean just those those three days felt very a lot happened very quickly.
Speaker 2:It's like the Game of Thrones. It was like the Game of Thrones season eight thing where, like they're just the characters are just going everywhere at like. It never felt like a true odyssey, right, like through Seattle, right. It just felt like we're here, we're here, we're here and now we're going home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, funny enough, dina does a lot of the heavy lifting. For that she's outstanding oh let's just talk about.
Speaker 1:I mean, the true MVP of this season is Isabella Marcet. She is phenomenal, she's unbelievable. You want to talk about like propelling your career to like being like a household A-list actor, like the Last of Us, mixed with Superman. Like you are the a-list of it. You're gonna be in that upper echelon soon, if not now. Like she is rugged and tough, but she's also tender. She's she's sweet, but she's like she's not.
Speaker 1:Like. She's not like sweet of like somebody and going and giving you. Like you know, oh, I thought of you and I gave you this. Like she's sweet and like she believes in you and she makes you feel like you can do certain things, like probably why jesse kept going back and like wow, and like her character flushing was really well done as well, too, to be like you know where'd you come. Like you know I watched my mom and my sister die like while I was so young, and you know ellie's like I'm so sorry about that and dina's like it's all right. Like gotta, gotta, keep pushing right. Like she's such this person that lives in that world. But to to your point that you made at the beginning like she's the one that like she's kind of like a hippie, like she's, like I figured it out, I'm good. But then when she finds out she's pregnant, like so many things could have went wrong for that character and that performance, but everything went right for that character and that performance, at that time she's just, she's phenomenal.
Speaker 2:She's believable, which I think is important, like I love it, like in also, you know, to kind of couple with that jesse as well.
Speaker 1:It was great this season, yeah, just not. Just not enough of them. No, no. And like that character finally got flushed out to the point where it probably should have been in the game as well too. Like to the point where, like if you would have gave everything that you gave jesse in the show, put it into the game and then Jesse dies in the game, I would have been like obviously it sucked and you're like, oh, shoot. But then I would have been like sobbing, oh shoot.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, yeah, he comes in the show. He comes across as very like. He almost feels like the de facto leader of everything. He's super capable. You know, and that's the other thing too that that kind of was kind of odd about ellie's writing this season is they portrayed her as this kind of like dumb brute type character, which is not how she's portrayed in the games at all. Um, in the game she's portrayed as very cunning, you know, kind of like two steps ahead, right, um, always kind of like analyzing and thinking about a situation, and then they kind of like imparted all of her wisdom right to dina's character and they kind of gave them like this, like smart character, dumb character, dynamic right which kind of also I felt hurt ellie a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think yeah, it's just. It was just pretty as the way they wrote ellie, the season was a little confusing.
Speaker 1:I think she lacks a slight bit of maturity as well, too. That the game really did a great job of like getting her from the 14 year old to the 19, 20 year old version of ellie. Like it did a really good job in the game of being like, if this is going to be our playable character, like it's going to mean something like. But the funny thing is the show the show in the first three episodes is such a great job about getting her there. Like the tough part of where people were nervous about the show gets her there now.
Speaker 1:And the game just can't I mean the show just can't figure it out after that, can't, I mean, the show just can't figure it out after that. Like they, I feel like they had a little bit of trouble. And you know what's funny about us saying all this Season 3 might recontextualize all of this. Like this season feels like the back half of the season felt very much as the bridge, the bridge point of where we need to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, you know it's just, it just felt. It just felt like because they were writing for a TV show, they were hesitant to make the main character kind of antagonistic. They were kind of hesitant to go that far. Yeah, they were hesitant to make people dislike her.
Speaker 1:It's got to be a cognition thing, especially for Bella Ramsey, because unfortunately, they get so much hate for absolutely zero reason ever and people are just horrible human beings. But yeah, take the swing. You already committed to the season structure of the game. You need to take the narrative and character swing as well too, and I think they they were so cautious about being like go, let her go full sun, and I think the perfect example is the. Is the Owen? Owen is the? Is Owen's death, owen and Mel's death? Because in the game Ellie's it's after the fact where Ellie's like I'm spiraling.
Speaker 2:Like I am ultimately spiraling out of control. She stabs, she kills Owen and then she kills Mel, and then she looks down and she sees that Mel was pregnant and she's like, ah, shoot. She looks down and she sees that Mel was pregnant, she's like, ah, shit, yeah, where in this? Like it's like an open, almost like an open?
Speaker 1:discussion. Yeah, and like Ellie's, like I'm like to the point she's like I'm so sorry, like I'm so no, like you should have got your somber sorry after the fact of your you know your tirade throughout Seattle. Like that's the point and that throughout Seattle. That's the point and that's my whole point. I think this season's biggest issue is that she's not violent, she's almost anti-violent. Yeah.
Speaker 2:This second season has an antagonist problem and it's because this whole section and it kind of made me recontextualize the game in a lot of ways, but the antagonist truly, of Ellieie's day one, day two, day three of seattle is ellie, she's, she's her own antagonist yep, and the reason why this season of the show feels like it has an antagonist problem is because you're led to believe, show wise, that abby is the antagonist right.
Speaker 1:But abby doesn't show up again until the end of the season, and let's talk about abby for a second, because, lord, I can't wait for season three yeah, I can't wait. Which is wild, because I would have never thought I would be saying that just her showing up in the last episode, like I was like, more like what? Even though she kills jesse, like and it's sad, it's like I need more.
Speaker 2:I need more, more, more, yep and I think, I think it's a writing thing. It's a writing and it's a performance thing where that character just feels so dynamic, right, that you're just like wait, now we're going to get a whole season with this character. I'm kind of in, which is the opposite of how the game makes you feel. To be honest, where the game you're like man, now I'm Abby and I don't want to be honest where like the game.
Speaker 2:You're like ah man, now I'm abby and I don't want to be here. And then, like you, you slowly start to, you start to kind of warm up to her as you kind of see what she deals with. But the way caitlin devere portrays her as this kind of just like force of nature, and then she disappears after the joel thing and then she reappears at the end of the season as again like this just force of nature, and you're like like just just I'm, I'm amped that I think they already announced that she's going to be the lead, yes, which I think is probably going to be a beneficial pivot.
Speaker 1:Um feels that way, which is wild. Yep again, like our greatest, like I don't think we are equating for this being like all the things we kind of theorized were like wrong, like we were like opposite on everything. Yeah, it's funny, like all the characters, like it's funny like and it's not Bella Ramsey's performance. I just want to talk about that because it is absolutely phenomenal. Oh, her acting is just through the roof, incredible.
Speaker 2:Like that episode. I think that episode six is maybe the best episode of the show. Yeah with.
Speaker 1:With Joel. Yeah, the Flashback episode it's two and six. Two and six are the best two episodes of that season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think six is right up there with like episode three of that season.
Speaker 1:It's amazing, Just Ellie's structuring. I think that's their miss man.
Speaker 2:And I hate to say it, it's ripping me apart to even say it wanted to not have people dislike the character Is. My only theory Is that they wanted her to have some sort of redemptive quality. But it's really not the point of the second game. She's not supposed to be, she's kind of supposed to be beyond redemption. That's part of the reason why the game is structured day one, day two.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So the way Ellie and Abby's stories are structured are they are both fighting against their better nature and they both learn. They both become different people based on their journeys Right.
Speaker 2:That's the whole point of structuring the game that way. It's like Ellie's three days in Seattle are a descent into darkness, whereas Abby's three days are an ascent from darkness, and the show didn't serve that purpose for Ellie. I think it will serve that purpose for Abby, because I think that's that's easier to write to, and I well, we were also not thinking about the next season.
Speaker 1:Could, if it's going to spin it, the next season very much for Ellie could show her like cause we're told she goes through it's not even told she kind of go like cause she comes back the one day like did she go and kill people? Like was like what was, what was she doing during this time? Like it's making it seem like when she killed owen and mel, like that she was like destroyed when it happened, versus like in the game, like just another day at the office, basically, until she sees that mel is pregnant after dean is pregnant, then she's like, oh, like, wake up.
Speaker 2:Like and then jesse dies right, like just kind of like well, I did this Right, right, like I reaped what I sowed here, right, whereas like that's not again in the show, is not maybe? I mean maybe again, maybe next season like they flip from Abby's perspective and we find out Ellie's been doing all this stuff, but not as impactful like finding out after the fact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think Ellie's innocence was something they should have been so concerned about versus her repercussions for her violence. That's the true piece of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, again, like I said, for a show, it's easier to write a character ascending out of their darkness. Right, Because that's a big you know spoilers for the game, but that's a big thing with Abby's story when you get to it is that her killing Joel did not fix her. If anything, it made her feel worse. Yes, Yep, Because she thought by killing Joel she would be able to kind of move on and kind of like move away from that. And then she can't, and then you know her friends are dying. Then she gets saddled with lev and that's what opens her eyes and understands everything that she took from ellie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of anything. Abby's and that's the point of the game is abby's character is supposed to juxtapose. Juxtapose joel a little bit as well too. But man, if they get the lev lev stuff right next season, people might start to be like wait, abby's not too bad, she's not too bad of a, it's weird I think they're gonna.
Speaker 2:I think I think I mean maybe, and maybe this was like 4d chess, maybe this was their goal. But, like I just based on how this season went and the reaction to ellie next season being abby season, right, I mean I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that people are going to walk away from these two seasons liking Abby more, yeah, which might be bad, bad yeah.
Speaker 1:Great for Caitlin Deaver and the Abby character from you know where she came from, the hate from the game. But not great for Ellie's character.
Speaker 2:No, but like that's, I'm just reading the tea leaves, that's where it feels like that's where it feels like this is headed, yeah, like it feels like next season is going to come out and it's going to be all about Abby and Caitlin. Debra is so good, yes, that people are going to be like wait right, wait what? She should actually be the main character. Yes, and I think that's just again. I think they, just as ambitious as the show has been, it lost its teeth a little bit in probably the moment that it needed them the most, and that's with Ellie's descent into darkness. Right, I think they just they didn't go far enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like it was fear to hate Bella Ramsey too, which and that part I feel horrible about. Yeah, like imagine that's what you have to worry about, like people suck, but also just let it run, let it run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean let's. I mean we can talk about Pedro Pascal for a second.
Speaker 1:Give him give him his flowers. It's Pedro Pascal. It's the same Tom Cruise in the Mission Impossible. What more can I say? He's inspired, amazing.
Speaker 2:Brought it. Brought it in episode six. He's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Oh Lord man, Tony Dalton, Shout out Tony Dalton.
Speaker 2:Shout out.
Speaker 1:Tony Dalton, shout out. Tony Dalton, the best Pedro Pascal dad standing, you could have thought that never, you never would have thought of either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but I mean just that whole episode six was just you felt, you felt it, you felt it and you felt again, that would have that episode would have made everything else so much stronger, if they had juxtaposed that, yes, ellie, turning into a monster, just like joel did.
Speaker 1:And and then tony dalton comes to ellie. What did I tell? What did I tell my son?
Speaker 2:understanding like and from you know, understanding why joel did what he did you know, and I mean just Pedro Pascal, like that, from the bit at the museum to all of the. What's his name, the guy that he killed?
Speaker 1:Gail's husband. Oh, yeah, yeah, eugene, eugene, wow, what. This is where the series and the season is like. That's its peak, right there. Joel can't help himself, he just can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he does have an issue with not being. I mean, it's a great character flaw Like not being, Just can't own up to doing something wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like ethically wrong, but to him it's not. It's morally right but it's objectively ethically wrong. Like or is it like? That's the question, because like Ellie's, like you can let them see Gail but Joel's, like I, it's not about the community of Jackson. Maybe it is for my, you know, for my brother and my nephew and my sister-in-law. It's about you, like I need to keep you safe to all to like.
Speaker 2:End to the nth degree, but again and then again. But the thing that undoes him is the lie. It's the lie, so it's not. It's not so much the choice, it's the lie, it's the why about the choice. Right where he tells ellie like yeah, we'll right, we'll bring him back, we'll let him see his wife, and then he just changes his mind. And he kills Eugene. Great performance by Joey.
Speaker 1:Pants. Yeah, Joe Panteliano.
Speaker 2:No, joe, you can't do this to me, man.
Speaker 1:That was powerful, though, when.
Speaker 2:Joel was like like, if you have any last words, I'll relay them to Gail. It wasn't about that. I wanted to hear her last words. Joel was like well, I'm the guy with the rifle. Shout out Gail. By the way, it was way worse Than we could have imagined when she was like you killed my husband.
Speaker 1:And I'm like whoa, that can mean a lot of things yeah, like, did you have to?
Speaker 2:was it out of like and it was out of necessity. But it was also like the machinate, like the lie. Right again the lie. He didn't just lie to ellie, he lied to gail. So shout out gail being so, uh, I mean, she said, you know, she said she couldn't really forgive him. But shout out her even like freaking doing the therapy for him, because I wouldn't Right, like, no, what FDL lied to me, killed my husband. We didn't get a ton of. I mean, I guess it makes sense, we didn't get a ton of Tommy this season.
Speaker 1:No, because I think they're waiting to give. I had a theory that the next season they're going to have like this whole sniper sequence with tommy, where it's like a one take of tommy just wreaking havoc throughout seattle. That'd be cool. I think that would be pretty freaking amazing yeah, but he was, I mean gabriel.
Speaker 2:He was great in the uh in episode two because I'm trying to think about it now.
Speaker 1:I think the reasoning is because they were so hyper-focused on Ellie, dina and Abby Not really Abby towards the back half, but Ellie and Dina specifically Because we already dealt with Joel and Tommy in season one to such a high degree that it was so focused that this is Bella Ramsey's season, this is Isabella Marced's season. So I'm not mad at it. Same thing for Jesse. It makes total sense. He's just phenomenal. I mean from episode 3, like once he comes back and he sees, you know, just the sheet over Joel's body, he's amazing, he's always incredible again.
Speaker 2:I think the structuring of the show makes total sense. It was just the not going far enough with Ellie's descent. There's a disconnect and I mean what's gonna again the other thing going back to next season. But like the other thing that's gonna benefit Abby's story is there is gonna be a true antagonist.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be Isaac. That might be more interesting for next season.
Speaker 2:So when you're gonna be working directly opposite Jeffrey Wright, your show is probably going to be a little bit better. Which, again this season, dealt with such an abstract antagonist that was supposed to be Ellie. Ellie was supposed to be her own worst enemy, and the fact that they didn't dive into that made this season feel kind of a little aimless Sure. Because who was she fighting against Right?
Speaker 1:We don't we don't know.
Speaker 2:Like she wasn't fighting. She wasn't directly fighting against the WLF. No, no.
Speaker 1:She was avoiding them if anything, and the Seraphites too. The Seraphites, if anything, got the better hand on her every single time.
Speaker 2:Right, they almost killed her. Yeah, they did, which was another weird sequence.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where, like, she's going to the pier and she gets shipwrecked, and then the Seraphites almost kill her, and then they're like let her go and she just goes back to the aquarium, yeah.
Speaker 1:That was weird. Like where's Formidable Ellie? Like where's the Ellie that would like? No, I'm going that would have been a nice flip on that.
Speaker 2:If, like, if she got shipwrecked and captured by the Seraphites and she kills them all and then goes back to the aquarium, that would have been cool, right, instead of putting her in this position where she's about to die and then they just let her go Sure, sure, I agree, I agree, that would have been cool. That would have been. I don't know if it would have totally saved it, but I think that would have been cool, like showing her being like, oh shit, like she doesn't. She's so focused, she's so one-track minded that she just killed these four seraphites, right, and is now just going back to the aquarium, right, she got, she didn't get deterred like at all by that, whereas like that one, yeah, yeah, I agree. Um, I mean next season again. It's weird to say I didn't think I'd be saying it, but like I'm really looking forward to the Abby stuff.
Speaker 1:It's insane, like the positioning too of it, like to get Abby in a position for her to succeed after she. It was the whole stake on the season was like guys just hear us out about Abby, like shout out Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann for that, like they did. It Feels like it. Yeah, my only issue. I think that this is now at the sacrifice of Ellie.
Speaker 2:That's what it feels like.
Speaker 1:And I don't love it.
Speaker 2:I don't love it Because spoiler alert these two are going to come to a head again.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it's going to be. It might be weird, because I feel like by the end of next season people are going to like be like on Abby's side, Kind of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is not great, especially if, if Pedro Pascal isn't in the next season at all.
Speaker 2:Wait, she should just win, Right. It's weirdly enough where I feel like this is headed. Yeah, um, because it feels like people are already there and we haven't even seen the Lev stuff, her combating her, going against the WLF and Isaac. She's going to become the counterculture character. She's going to buck the system.
Speaker 1:A little bit yeah. She's going to rebel against the WLF and all this other stuff Still take down the Seraphites, but maybe get them to see a new way. Oh no, is Abby the hero she always was? Maybe she always was. This is not good?
Speaker 2:No, it's not good for.
Speaker 1:Ellie, it is not good for.
Speaker 2:Ellie at all.
Speaker 1:It could be really great for the next season of the show, though, and then season four is just Santa Clara.
Speaker 2:I would assume. So Right, which, again, I don't know how you get there with Ellie's character.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Cause the whole point is like the whole point of her going to Santa Clara is she feels so guilty and feels like her missions incomplete, despite the fact that she kind of tried to walk away. Right, and this one like, yes, jesse died, but it almost feels like if she walked away now she wouldn't go back.
Speaker 1:No, no, she still feels and I guess this is an arc issue, because I feel like Ellie hasn't truthfully changed any bit- no, it doesn't feel like it.
Speaker 2:Which?
Speaker 1:is a. That's a problem, Because by that point in the game, ellie already was starting to be like I can't help myself, especially to Dina. Like I can't help myself, like I just this is who I am.
Speaker 2:She's still out there, like I have to finish this Right. And it's Dina that is kind of telling her like no, you have to let this go, whereas, like they never have that clash, they don't even have the beginnings no, they don't they both. They both are kind of like resigned to like, oh we'll just, after this is over, we'll just go back to jackson it's not that simple, no it's like I don't. I don't know where ellie's gonna find that motivation. No, maybe it'll come from time.
Speaker 1:Maybe tommy will do the heavy lifting yeah, put the battery in her back of like, go, no, no, go, get some revenge for my brother and your father and for all of us.
Speaker 2:Yes, so maybe that's where it comes from, but that's asking a lot.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of heavy lifting and it's something to do for, you know, for tommy's character that wasn't explicitly needed by that point yeah, or if that was the point, it already should have happened that way yeah, because in the game it's tommy goes to ellie one last time and is like I found, found, abby, you know we can go. And it's not so much Tommy motivating her, as it is Ellie fighting against the desire to go. And then she eventually goes. She says all the right, and Dina doesn't really even give Ellie a chance to answer Tommy. She kind of pushes him out the door and she's like don't ever come back here with this, ever again. And Ellie kind of just resigns to it and she's like, yeah, I can't go. And then she goes, whereas like in this situation, like it almost feels like Tommy's gonna have to really push Right Because it doesn't feel like Ellie's necessarily interested in any type of payback. It's an odd approach.
Speaker 1:I just hope, a I hope the next season delivers on the Abby stuff. B you need to get Ellie some good graces back, which I just didn't think that was going to be a thing out of season two. Still, overall, it's a great season of television. It's a dynamic season of television.
Speaker 2:It looks incredible.
Speaker 1:Oh, the scale, the scope, everything the filmmaking aspects are just it's, it's next level, it's through the roof. All the infected stuff is just amazing all through and through um the production design. It's, it's just, it's, it's amazing, it's astonishing.
Speaker 2:I think that the tv studio bit, oh wow, yep was unbelievable. Yep, so that was a spectacle to just in and of itself, right To look at. Um, yeah, it was just. It just fell, unfortunately, just fell short in maybe the most important aspect, which was the writing and handling of Ellie's character Right, which is you know where a lot of people are going to, are going to fall at the end of the day. Um, but we still have another season. Next season is going to be Abby driven, um, and.
Speaker 2:I'm really really looking forward to it. Yep, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:We're done, mission impossible. Last of us wrapped up wrapped up.
Speaker 2:Um, we're heading into the, into the troves of the summer now, yep, Um. So we've got a lot of stuff to cover in the next month or two, so I'm looking forward to all of that. You can follow us on Twitter at ProjectINF underscore pod. You can follow us on Facebook at the Project Infinite Podcast. You can follow us on Instagram at the Project Infinite Pod. You can follow us on TikTok and YouTube at those respective platforms, at the Project Infinite Podcast. And next week, I don't know should we talk about Andor. Next week, you Project Infinite podcast. And next week, I don't know Should we talk about Andor next week.
Speaker 1:We can talk about Andor next week. There's an F1 movie coming out, a new Joe Kaczynski coming out as well too, if we want to do a traditional movie review Lead us right into the summer. We can do a themed episode. We had options here at the Project Infinite podcast. Yes, that's why it's an infinite multiverse of fandom. Sure is as the tagline of the song says.
Speaker 2:Yes, so yeah, we could definitely and or would be pristine to talk about, because it's pristine television, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:Why is that show so good? Give it Emmys, you cowards. No, give it every Emmy. There's not enough Emmys you can give that show Are. Give it. Give it Emmys, you cowards. No, give it every Emmy. There's not enough Emmys you can give that show. Are they going to no, no, they won't, but they should, they should.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, that's gonna do it for us this week. Um from me, from the Captain Bloodso, captain Bloodso, captain Bloodso, captain Bloodso oh, I don't have to be careful this time.
Speaker 1:No, you don't have to. I actually invite this one, the Captain Blitzo of the podcast. Yes, he's the coolest guy at maybe. We were looking at each other in the theater. We were like yo, this is the coolest.
Speaker 2:The guy came in just.
Speaker 1:I just don't understand. He was the coolest guy ever. He said who are you, mister, if you're going gonna poke the bear? You came to the right plan. You came to the right man. Bro was about the impossible missions. He should be the leader of the imf. He's got to be in the next one. Oh 100, his career is gonna just. He's gonna be in everything he was. So he was so good, much as like he did with severance, like just came in immediate heater.
Speaker 2:He was so good and you must be out your mind.
Speaker 1:That crew probably has a great time on that sub, except for that one guy. That's an accolade.
Speaker 2:He said. Hunt said you must be Captain Buzzsaw and he goes and you must be out of your mind the coolest guy maybe ever he was so good. Alright, guys, we'll see you next week. We will probably talk about Andor. Until then, goodbye peace.
