The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
157 - "Fantastic Four: First Steps" Review & Discussion!
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After a couple of weeks off, we present our review and spoiler filled thoughts for Fantastic Four: First Steps! We venture to Earth-828, a retrofuturistic world where Marvel's First Family shines like never before. This isn't just another superhero movie. It's a cosmic family drama that captures the essence of what makes these characters special. Pedro Pascal's Reed Richards steals the show as a brilliant mind caught between genius and emotional distance. The film doesn't shy away from his darkness, showing us a man who calculates the mathematics of saving billions, even at terrible personal cost. This complexity makes him the most compelling Reed we've seen on screen. Vanessa Kirby's Sue Storm emerges as the powerhouse she deserves to be, not just with her incredible abilities but as the diplomatic and emotional center keeping the family together. Joseph Quinn brings unexpected depth to Johnny Storm, creating genuine connections with the Silver Surfer that lead to one of the film's most powerful moments. Ebon Moss-Bachrach's Ben Grimm serves as the team's emotional anchor, having made peace with his transformation while still carrying its weight.
What are your thoughts on this fresh approach to Marvel's First Family? How do you think they'll factor into the upcoming Avengers: Doomsday? Share your theories and join our conversation about the ever-expanding multiverse of fandom! Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
01:44 Avatar: Fire and Ash Trailer
07:44 Stranger Things Season 5 Trailer
15:36 Heat 2 Close To Being Greenlit
22:32 Matt Smith to be in Star Wars: Starfighter
24:35 Spider-Man: Brand New Day Stuff!
33:45 Fantastic Four: First Steps NON-SPOILER THOUGHTS
58:22 Fantastic Four: First Steps FULL SPOILER REVIEW AND THOUGHTS
01:30:10 Finale, Post Credits & Avengers: Doomsday Thoughts
01:26:00 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: ???
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Speaker 2:My God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Rob and Court the Cube. Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom for movies, comics, tv shows, video game. We got you covered. I'm rob. I'm here, as always, but court, court, we're finally back to talk about fantastic four. Yeah, we are. What a picture. Yeah, it was a lot of fun obviously a lot to talk about this movie in terms of just the movie itself.
Speaker 1:The box office returns, which is becoming a hot topic of discussion yeah, remember when you made 500 million dollars in the studio was like great. Now you made 600 million dollars in the studio is like how dare you yeah, right, so we'll see.
Speaker 2:We'll see what what the future holds, obviously for marvel and everything and just the genre in general, I guess, because people are apparently getting very concerned, but I'm not sure that they need to be. I think we just need to remember a lot of things from way back when, when it comes to all those movies and how much they were and weren't making Right Before you know Infinity War and you know Spider-Man and all that stuff. So you know, some of these movies just are not meant to be event films. You know they're just meant to be event films. You know they're just meant to be kind of like their own kind of thing, right, and that's what fantastic four was. So we're going to talk about that, and then a bunch of other stuff relating to fantastic four and obviously the fallout from that. First, we have some news and some trailers. First and foremost, obviously, before fantastic four premiered and showed, they showed the trailer for Avatar.
Speaker 1:Oh, seeing that in IMAX man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Avatar Fire and Ash trailer coming out in December. So we're on a good track with these Avatar movies and obviously the gap between the one and the Way of the Water was significant, but this one is coming out not too long after the second one, so all your favorites are back from the second one and from the first one, jake Sully is back.
Speaker 1:Sam Worthington.
Speaker 2:Loloch Piecon. I'm glad that you remember all these characters and names. Sulte is dead. Is that the one?
Speaker 1:that died. Yeah, that's from from the boys.
Speaker 2:That's right, and yeah, so I mean, obviously the big thing is again just how visually stunning this movie looks.
Speaker 1:It's visually stunning. The score. I love that. This trailer just it trusts you right out of the gate. I think that's my favorite part about this trailer is it trusts you. It trusts you to know, and as much as the Dune 1, dune 2 thing Avatar 1, avatar 2, where the first movie it should echo the first movie, should echo the world, the first movie should kind of have it be a wave that washes over where you're encapsulated and then the second movie can really shine narratively.
Speaker 1:You know what's this? What's the third movie going to look like? Obviously, looking at this franchise, there's at least five movies that he's going to make out of this. So, looking at a third film in this franchise, probably this is probably going to be a big turning point as well. To narratively, I imagine this narrative is going to, you know, get much darker. I envision there's probably going to be more sacrifice as well, too, in this. So I'm really looking forward. I mean, it's just it's it's. It's stunning. The first 30 seconds of this trailer you're watching, you're like this, like how, how do you do this? Like, how are you doing this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're back. You're like immediately, like teleported, like back in, like it's insane what he's able to do with this world.
Speaker 1:Obviously, the first two are two of the highest grossing movies of all time and I know people are always like how, and this is how it's the spectacle, these are like events like these are big events. But I think the second one really, really strengthens this point. It's these stories are so strong. This story is so strong and the story is strong because these characters are airtight, especially after the second film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no I no, I totally agree. I mean, everyone we talked about it. We talked about the second one like just narratively and character-wise, like it was so far beyond the first one, where the first one was obviously like the world-building, like they had to throw so much lore into it that it was kind of like a technical showcase for what this thing could be. And then the second one was like all right, now we're kind of getting into like the meat of the story and the characters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love the, I love the level of trust that james canring gives us, like I said, on a character level as well too, and I mean, before I hopped on here, it's even making loak the. You know he's the main character of this film, of this franchise. Now it's's kind of he is, his narrative is kind of what's flowing through everybody, and it's good to have a younger surrogate for the audience as well too, especially if you want newer. You know, obviously this movie the second one came out 13 years after the first one, so it's very good that you know you have a character that's younger, that can kind of embody the voice of the generation, to kind, of, you know, get them in. That's younger, that can kind of embody the voice of the generation, to kind, of, you know, get them in some reason. Sam Worthington is absolutely phenomenal in these films and it looks like he's only getting better and better every single step of the way as well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, he's kind of just in this avatar space, but I think you saw the vast improvement from the first movie to the second movie and from the second movie, hopefully this one and we got. You know the new tribe is coming in. It's kind of been like a staple.
Speaker 2:But you know what I kind of like about this at least this trailer is they didn't just leave behind the old like the way of the water, no sect of the world, seems like. It seems like they're all. I'm coming back. It seems like they're all coming back in a way like in the first, like I know when way of water started. It kind of like you're in you know the the space of the first movie for like 15 minutes and then it like takes you out of that space and brings you into like the coastal kind of the water place, whereas this it seems like it's gonna be much more intertwined and the. It does not appear that the. I don't know if we have like an official name for this fire tribe yet, but does not seem like they adhere to the same planetary beliefs as the other tribes.
Speaker 1:No, I quite appreciate that understanding to make them antagonistic as well too. And it's not antagonistic, for you know, being an antagonist antagonist, it's antagonistic because of perspective. Like their perspective on this whole situation could be much different. You know, to the point where they get somebody like Quaritch in their corner For lack of a better term he is, you know, probably the devil deal that they're going to make and they're going to, you know, probably, regret. I also love that these movies can't help, but Corbin and Jake just shoot in the fade every single third act they have to Until they team up in the fifth one. Like I'm theorizing.
Speaker 2:Your goddess has no dominion here. I said wait, wait a minute. The lead of Fire Tribe says to the daughter whatever the daughter, I forgot the daughter's name Ah Kiri.
Speaker 2:Kiri. Yeah, which is an interesting thing because we've yet to see another Na'vi tribe kind of outwardly reject the idea of AWOL in this universe. So I think that's an interesting kind of thing and you got to wonder what this group has seen to make them take that position. So I'm very, very interested and obviously visually it interested and obviously visually it just does nothing like it. There's nothing like these Avatar movies. Stranger Things also got a trailer on the time that we were away. Stranger Things Season 5, which is split into three parts, right, and they're like two hour movies.
Speaker 1:They're like two hour movies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like right around Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's, basically, is when they're dropping these bunches of episodes, with the finale, I think, just being on its own in January, which is, you know, it's kind of what Netflix is kind of doing now, like they did it with a lot of their shows recently, where they do these kind of sectioned releases, and I mean the trailer looked really good, man. You know, I know this show, and netflix in particular, has caught a lot of flack for how long it's been between seasons, and you know, you know just the spectacle of it all and I think people just forget. You know how good season four was yeah, season four is like peep television.
Speaker 1:I was I was thinking about this as well too where I was. I was saying to myself, like how do you rank these? It's probably four, one, two, three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were to rank these seasons and like to usurp season one of this show, which was pretty spectacular, says something. So you know this show is in a funny little realm because if you want to look at the streaming services, like you know you aren't anybody without me. Like that's Netflix, netflix was the first one and like this being one of the flagship shows, that's like. You know streaming content, you know for television like it works and you know it can be impactful and we can pull in more viewers than like network television can. Like they really changed the narrative on how, you know, streaming television could be perceived narratively and you know, to see these characters and see them all grow up as well too.
Speaker 1:Where this is where the other side of that coin falls is it's a while. It's been a while. It's been a while and you gotta think you know that interest like did they fall over a little too far? I don't think so, because of how popular the show. It's like the Squid Games thing, where everybody's like nobody cares about Squid Games and that was the highest viewed thing that Netflix had ever done for season three. I just got to, obviously for them number one. You got to stick this landing. You have to do anything and everything to stick this landing.
Speaker 2:It's the hardest thing to do is finales, and ending things Right.
Speaker 1:You can either Game of Thrones yourself or you can pleasantly Breaking Bad yourself. Like it is, there is a and it almost feels like there's never going to be an in-between. It's finales always, I think.
Speaker 2:Dexter is still learning that lesson, Sure, sure. That's the reason I feel like Dexter keeps coming back. It's like the original series the finale was terrible.
Speaker 1:So they did the new blood and people weren't satisfied with that. So now they're doing the resurrection thing. That and michael c hall needs work. So, yeah, sure, I wonder, and you know you gotta keep playing like you. Season four bought us one of the better television villains of all time was vekna. Like you're talking about a villain that has great backstory. It's great menace as well too. I think this season can benefit and it's going to be funny to say this like the big spectacle final season, getting back to some basics as well too.
Speaker 1:You know your your spooky horror you know, your, there's a level of ambience to the first season of stranger things which I really appreciate. It like it breathes, which I think is really impressive. So if you even get back to a level of that, but yeah, I'm just, I'm super, super interested. Obviously, I'm interested in what this final season would be. I just I feel like it's because when did season four come out? In 2022.
Speaker 2:I believe, if I'm not mistaken. That sounds right to me because we we covered it on it was either 2022 or 2023. So it's been, it's been around as long as we've been. Yeah, 2022. Yeah, wow, and it was July, may and then July Of 2022.
Speaker 1:Three plus years, three and a half years yeah, we've been waiting in between one season. They better make sure this thing is tight. Obviously, this cast has seen some controversy. There's been so much that's been shrouding this entire thing where it's got to be good and it's good Isn't good enough. It's got to be phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean the trailer was very impressive. Sure, sure, you know it hit all the right marks of like what a trailer for a strange things final season needed to hit. Hit all the right marks of like what a trailer for a strange things final season needed to hit. Like it needs to kind of like jolt viewers and be like oh yeah, like no, this show is actually good. You know what I mean and and you know it seems like it's going to be much of the tone and feel of season four, with just obviously, a few more bells and whistles, sure, so I'm definitely, obviously we're going to check it out and I'm just looking forward to seeing how they wrap this up. Right for now is a really, really difficult to do and I don't think it's. I don't think people are not interested, like. I think people are going to watch and you know, obviously it's going to be the talk of the town for three months, or you know pretty much.
Speaker 1:You know that november time, december, january, yeah, um, we're gonna be loaded up for the back half, for the, for the last part of the year, because I'm I'm assuming in that time we'll probably have some sort of spider-man trailer. In that time probably see the first, the first footage from, from whatever the spider-man movie is which we'll talk about in a moment we'll probably get. We're probably gonna get some look at at dr doom, like an official look at dr doom. In that time, avengers doomsday will probably ramp up as well too. Obviously you have avatar which talking about film. That's what's going to dominate the.
Speaker 1:The back half of the year will be that and yeah, it's going to be stranger things on a television front is what's going to dominate the last part of the year, which is it's intentional. They made that up like everybody will be home for all three of those dates. If you know you work like a nine to five. Everybody will be home Like it all works. So I'm excited. I am looking forward to this. Season four of Stranger Things is one of my favorite seasons of television I've watched, so I'm really keen to see if they can stick this landing.
Speaker 2:And, speaking of Fantastic Four, Stranger Things give us the ascent of Joseph Quinn in season four. So yeah, we're going to see what happens.
Speaker 1:Think he's coming back.
Speaker 2:Or do you think he's too?
Speaker 1:big now.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think he's too big. You know, I think a lot of people have speculated that he may come back as some sort of vampiric yeah undead type figure, but not like a zombie, but like more like a vampire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like something happened to him, like in the upside down, that caused him to not die, right. So I don't, I mean, I don't know, I it would be great to see that character again, because that character is so great, but I think also his sacrifice was so tight that you know, sometimes it's cool to resurrect characters sometimes, but sometimes it also you also have to think about the impact that it has on their, you know, on their death to begin with, especially for other characters too, which is, it's the dust within the room.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think like sometimes resurrection can be a kind of lazy mechanic to be like, hey, remember this character and how great they were. Mechanic to be like, hey, remember this character and how great they were. You know, sometimes you just gotta let it. Gotta let it be, you know, and let the let the characters, the surviving characters, deal with the aftermath of of the death. Right, you know. But I mean I say all that to say like, yeah, it would be great to see eddie again. I mean he was right, you know. Probably you know you talk about like the stranger things. It's like guest characters like him and Bob are probably the two strongest. I mean it is.
Speaker 1:Eddie. He's absolute lightning in the bow which catapulted his career. Like he's not playing Johnny Storm, he's not in A Quiet Place, he's not in Gladiator 2, if he doesn't play Eddie in Stranger Things, he just does not and he's been great in all those other things?
Speaker 2:yeah, he is. And then we got a couple couple movie things. First, stranger Things. He just does not and he's been great in all those other things yeah, he has. And then we got a couple movie things. First and foremost. So for those of you who may not know, michael Mann has been doing Heat 2. Yeah, or not doing it, but he's been thinking about it, writing it, yada, yada.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite filmmakers of all time. Michael Mann is an absolute legend, yeah, yeah, legend. Heat may be a top three action movie to ever be put to film you can make the argument between Heat. Miami. Vice oh, you're just talking about Michael Mann. Yeah, michael Mann movies.
Speaker 2:Collateral. He did Ali, he did Glass of the Mohicans absolutely, he's one of the best action directors. Michael Mann, in my opinion, it's like the Christopher Nolan absolutely, yeah, he's. He's one of the you know, one of the best action directors.
Speaker 1:Michael man, in my opinion, one of it's. It's it's like the christopher nolan oppenheimer thing where, like, I know that like, oppenheimer is probably his best film, but like, I still think interstellar, like he was cooking or no, the vice versa, vice versa, I think interstellar was the best film he'd ever made, but oppenheimer is one as a director, he was cooking. Michael Mann, in 1981, had an incredible film with James, with James Caan, called Thief. That film is just incredible. That film is phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Anywho, Heat 2. Yeah, so he's apparently drawing up a sequel to Heat. Obviously, the legendary action movie starring Al Pacino, robert De Niro, gave way to one of the greatest acting scenes of all time. Yeah, the diner scene in Heat. Gta 5 doesn't happen without Heat, right? Yeah, so he is working on Heat 2. He's apparently pushing very hard for Leonardo DiCaprio to star. Yeah, I was super surprised at that and, by all intents and purposes, apple's basically saying like hey, if you get DiCaprio, we'll make Heat 2 a thing. Obviously, apple coming strong off of F1.
Speaker 1:I think they're going to leverage that too. And then, like, obviously Leo and Brad Pitt are friends, so it's like, like Brad's going to be like yo apples. They, they know what they're doing. Like they, they make some highest, highest to lowest with Spike Lee, and Denzel is about to come out next month as well too.
Speaker 2:They're painting themselves a neat little.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean Scorsese was with them for Killers of the Flower Moon like that and television-wise Apple TV is strong as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, they're painting themselves a nice little kind of film niche here, so we'll see. I mean we'll see what happens. Obviously, you know, this is the norm nowadays.
Speaker 1:Is Adam Driver still attached to this movie, because they were talking about this for the longest time that Adam Driver was going to be in this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean I know the sequel was announced like three years ago at this point. So I think things, you know, things obviously have changed. Adam Driver world famous. He might be in this thing guy Speaking of Fantastic Four. Adam Driver was also attached to that at one point. So yeah, I mean, obviously this is the norm nowadays, as we're resurrecting, not resurrecting, but we're doing legacy sequels to things that came out 30 years ago or things that came out 8 years ago, like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 2 which very odd Social Network also.
Speaker 1:I mean the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 2 is at least Bradad pitt's coming back, so like but why is? Why is david? Why is david fincher doing this? I don't know, that's so. That's odd, for, like, filmmakers like that usually don't take franchises from other people, like tarantino, scorsese, spike lee Lee don't take something from somebody else. It's like their thing. Is this the thing? And now it's etched in film history. It's so odd that Fincher's like yeah, I want to keep doing Tarantino's vision. So odd to me, I can't put my finger on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand it. It's really strange.
Speaker 1:The social network one is even more mind-boggling. They probably could, because Jeremy Strong is going to play older Mark Zuckerberg, apparently. Yeah, because Eisenberg doesn't want to do it, which I don't blame him for, if you've heard Eisenberg talk about it in the past.
Speaker 2:he really doesn't give a shit about Mark Zuckerberg and he really does not like him as a person.
Speaker 2:They're very ideologically different, yeah, and jesse eisenberg just doesn't vibe with the person you know, which is it's because playing a character in a biopic is very different than playing them in a, like playing a fictional character. Right, like you know, it's especially with this what the second movie is properly supposed to be about, which is like kind of like the role that facebook played in the 2020 election and and all that stuff you're teetering a very dangerous line yeah. So I mean, I, I don't begrudge jesse eisenberg one, one bit for not wanting to come back to it is now.
Speaker 1:You see me movies yeah, yeah, we saw, that trailer too, when we saw fantastic it did.
Speaker 2:I love those movies. I'm a big fan of both the first two.
Speaker 1:And they're getting the all-star cast. Dominic Sessa got added to this cast. Yeah, Ariana Greenblatt got added, Like they added what's his name from the Pokemon movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, more importantly, I saw the TV glow. What's his name? I was, oh, justice, justice Smith I believe so.
Speaker 2:But yeah, as far as these legacy sequels go, this is the world that we live in now, where it's like, hey, remember this thing and we're gonna do a cool follow up to it. I don't try to think of I think we did. We did either an episode or like a corner on like legacy sequels and like what kind of spawned this, but now we're just doing it seemingly for anything like we're doing it for, like now the social network is getting a legacy sequel. I don't know. I don't know where we're going, I don't know when it's going to stop. But heat 2 I would be very interested in if you get leonardo di caprio yeah, in it michael, band leo, possibly adam Driver.
Speaker 1:If I'm them, you probably want to try to fill Val Kilmer's youthful exuberance Not that he's 20 anymore, but Austin Butler immediately does that. He immediately steps in and does that, looking forward to caught stealing as well with him later this year with Matt Smith, who Matt Smith will talk about soon. But yeah, you you probably try to grab, like, uh, yeah, you try to grab Leo, maybe an Austin Butler type, somebody like that. Uh, you know who would work in a heat movie what's his name?
Speaker 2:from Severance and Mission Impossible oh yeah, our new goat, god, that's the actor's name. Looking it up, we just talked about him. Yeah, we did. Tramiel Tillman, right, I mean, we just talked about it last week or last time. Yeah, no, I think it could be really good. So we'll see. And, like you said, speaking of Matt Smith, he has been officially cast in the Star Wars Starfighter movie as the villain opposite Ryan Gosling, and I think that is a fabulous pairing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess the question that you're going to ask is what is he going to be?
Speaker 2:He's going to be some smarmy Imperial type. Yes, yes, I think that works. I don't think this film is going to deal too much in Jedi's no, it's gonna be top gun in space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it makes the most sense. Just have fun. Like, let ryan gosling be ryan gosling for two hours. Yeah, like matt smith, like you said, let me. I think they're gonna. They're probably gonna try to pull some andorisms out and I think that's why he's probably gonna be like a new imperial officer that's trying to, you know, climb the ranks and take out this gunslinger in space. I do think you have an opportunity to add, like a side side Jedi character in this, which, because I don't know what Mia Goth's role is going to be, but you have the chance to add one more actor to kind of fill that role.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I just yeah. Matt smith is always a good add to anything, especially if he's gonna play like some kind of charismatic, right morally gray type character I think he fits well into, like, the star wars.
Speaker 1:I could see him in a little hat, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, the hat, the all white Just yapping about the Empire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Perfect. I think that's pretty great. God, I think that would be fabulous and I'm looking forward to that movie. It's a standalone. I love it. Give me a good Star Wars standalone thing that isn't really tied to much else, Just let people go. I think that's great. So I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 2:And then, before we talk about Fantastic Four, we have to talk about Spider-Man. Production for Spider-Man Bird of New Day is popping up. I don't really want to talk too much about the set stuff, just because it's like the double-edged sword of. You know, we always blast these studios for not filming in actual places and then when they film in actual places, everything goes on the internet, which is what's happening with Spider-Man right now. So I guess the only thing we can and should talk about is A Mark Ruffalo is confirmed to be back as the Hulk. The dartboard, Dartboard. They threw the dart at the dartboard and it landed on the Hulk and they're like alright, now the dartboard said we have to put the Hulk in this movie. So the Hulk's in this movie John Bernthal obviously, was announced as the Punisher a while back and he's going to be in this. The guy who played Scorpion oh, Michael Mando, he's going to be in this, but not as the main villain no, I heard they're getting like a cutlery of villains together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gonna. I mean, if they do that, it's probably gonna feel like a spider-man comic where, like, he's just taking out, you know, villains of the day until the bigger threat arises, which will be well, apparently it's not gonna be mr negative, so apparently the much, much rumored mr negative was gonna be the main villain.
Speaker 2:This is not going to happen which opens the door for a litany of possibilities.
Speaker 1:now Well, I mean, if you look at this cast, I mean Sadie Sinks, in this film which we don't know, we don't know, we don't know, we don't know yet she's not going to play Gwen Stacy.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:She's not going to play Mayday Parker. I don't think they're going to pull anything ultimate reality from this.
Speaker 2:No, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Speedball, not Speedball, whatever her name is.
Speaker 2:No, don't say that. So we got the Punisher, we got the Hulk, we got a look at Tom Holland in the costume and the costume looks fabulous.
Speaker 1:It's, hyperbolically speaking, the best live-action Spider-Man suit we've ever gotten.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's no notes. It sounds stupid to say it looks like a Spider-Man suit, but the cartridges, like the big cartridges there, just man and he like looks like a 20-something-year-old Peter Parker now, which is great. It's kind of crazy Like this is the first live-action Spider-Man that we've seen age with the role. You know where he started out, as like the high school kid.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And now he's like the young adult college guy Right and he's kind of aged up with that, which is really really cool to see Destin Daniel Cretton has spit in the face of John Watts, who once said that you can't do practical web swimming because it looks ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Daniel Destin Cretton said shut up, shut up, I will.
Speaker 1:We're going to put that spider-man on a crane and get him.
Speaker 2:Get him swinging. Did he do? Did he still do the wonder man show? I don't know if he yeah, I think so. Is he cool? He's pretty cool. I did enjoy yeah, yeah, abdul-matin being on the fantastic four premiere yeah, in character.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I remember I texted you and I was like, oh look, he's got the glasses that he wears in the comics. You're like, no, no, listen to what he's saying. He's actually Simon Williams right now.
Speaker 2:Oh shoot. But yes, dustin Daniel Cretton did create the Wonder man show. Wow, he created it. The showrunner is Andrew Guest.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean, you know, looking full picture at Daniel Destin Cretton I mean, shang-chi is one of the most underrated Marvel movies that we've gotten so far, in my opinion. I think that movie is tight. I think that movie is fun. I think the action is. I mean it's some of the best action in the entire MCU and it's a travesty that we haven't seen Simu Liu, since the same time we've seen Stranger Things about three years we haven't seen him.
Speaker 1:We're not going to be seeing you. Do you think he's going to show up in this movie, in the Spider-Man movie? Just for a post-credits scene.
Speaker 2:A second something I'd be surprised I don't know no-transcript like that 2020 to 2023 ish range where they're just like shotgunning characters and not really having a plan really or like a timeline. I guess Not really so much a plan, but like a timeline.
Speaker 1:I think they weren't so character-centric of like. This character needs to be here, we need to fast-track. But then it gets to your problem of like. But who are the Avengers? Because it's even a point, doctor Strange isn't part of the Avengers, but his films were still working during the Infinity Saga. You have these other side characters who kind of filter in, but there was no. I mean, we, we talk, we'll talk about it always to the we're blue in the face. They had a main character issue which we're going to talk about with Fantastic Four, first Steps. They might've solved as well too. It was right under our noses.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, I don't know, man, I, this, this Spider-Man movie is like it's I'm, I'm like I've been puzzled the last few days because obviously the set photos look incredible. He looks amazing in the suit he's going to be. You know, college age Peter Parker. You know, pull out that camera for J Jonah Jameson because you got to make some money. You're broke, like that's finally a Peter Parker Everybody's been asking for. But then, like the Punisher thing, I was like, oh, that's awesome, like getting the Punisher. And then they said the Hulk and I was like, oh, no See, I'm nervous, I'm really nervous about the Hulk stuff, and I'm not as nervous for the narrative of the movie as I am for Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk Like. That's what I'm truthfully nervous about. I personally think they added him because they needed a way to get him ready for Doomsday, because they have something big for him in Doomsday.
Speaker 2:Do you think there's any chance that the movie opens and he's just Bruce Banner again?
Speaker 1:It could be. I mean, he figured it out in She-Hulk. He figured it out.
Speaker 2:And he kind of serves as a kind of not a replacement for, but kind of an analog to kurt connor's it could be in a way where, like he's trying, you know, augmentate self-augmentation, things like that it could be.
Speaker 1:I I don't see that outside the rubble in the possibility.
Speaker 1:But I'm also thinking about the studio being the studio yeah getting ready for the big team-up movie that's gonna make a gazillion dollars. Yeah, one of the focal points of that will have the hulks being on point and you know the hulks being on point is going to include mark. You need the main hulk to like. We haven't seen that main hulk as that main hulk since 2015 or 2017, excuse me. So you're talking about how many years? You're talking about nine years or eight years, since we've seen, like a true proper, like angry hulk, like ready to fight anybody, like it's been years upon years. So that's why I thought mr negative was going to be the main character of this film, because he was going to flip savage hulk back out and put, you know, smart hulk back back away for a long time. But we'll see how this goes. I'm I'm still vested. I mean, it's the super, it's the superman argument like mean, you're right, it's Spider-Man, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's Spider-Man and Hulk, it's the Superman argument. At the end of the day, it's Spider-Man, right and it seems like Hulk aside that it's going to be just kind of set in New York and Spider-Man is just going to be Spider-Man and about Right, which is what you could ask, all you can ask for, um, and I mean, the punisher stuff is super interesting to me because I don't know whether it's because of the character or because it's burnthal, but like that character seems to be getting fast-tracked for like a lot of different things. I just think it's burnthal himself has to be right.
Speaker 1:Like he's just so freaking cool. Like he's.
Speaker 2:Like he's just like they put him in daredevil spun off into his own thing that's coming out next year. To now, he's gonna be the first kind of tv character to star in a movie oh, that's right.
Speaker 1:That is the first like tv character that's gonna get like a big, I mean besides like monica yeah and miss marvel and monica and miss marvel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but from like the Netflix crew I think, yeah, well, I mean, charlie Cox was in in no Way Home, but right for five seconds. Yeah, but the Punisher, for all intents and purposes, is gonna be like in this movie right to what?
Speaker 1:capacity. We don't know. I mean it might be like a Black Widow and Captain America, winter Soldier, we where, like that'd be great. She is like he's in this movie, like he is. I think that'd be awesome. Points of this film I think awesome. And obviously the next movie you you can't not, in my opinion, because the next movie is going to be post secret wars you, you just have to do daredevil kingpin, it's spider-man like that, just it's the easiest thing to kind of. You know, get them out. You just have to do Daredevil Kingpin, spider-man Like that, just it's the easiest thing to kind of. You know, get them out, get you some money. Keep it street level. Those multiverse ones for them, make some money though they do, they do be making money.
Speaker 2:Speaking of the multiverse, yeah, Take a little trip to Earth. 828. Fantastic Four First Steps came out a couple weeks ago. Much has been made of the box office returns, which I mean it's not the worst thing in the world right now worldwide 367 million, budget, about 220. So made its money back. A lot of people made a you know big kind of craziness about the drop off from the first and second week, which I don't again, I don't think is substantial or significant in any way. This movie made money is all that matters. And then you know, hopefully, hopefully, most importantly, to marvel, it's their kind of second really well received movie in a row right between this and thunderbolts.
Speaker 2:If you look at the aggregate stuff holding strong 86 percent on rotten tomatoes among critics and 92 percent among fans and viewers, which is what you want like, it doesn't really get much better than that for a major major releases, when the critics and and the viewers are both like, yeah, this movie's, this movie's pretty good and I think this movie is fabulous yeah, I think this movie is is really good.
Speaker 1:I kind of you know, obviously you get your out of theater like wow, wow, wow and then it's all. I guess it's all about like does that fade or does it stay? I feel like for superman, for me it stayed like it stayed, like Like it stayed, like. I only saw that movie once. I didn't get a chance to see it a second time and I'm still itching to, I still want to see that movie again. But even looking at Fantastic Four and I think I was right about my assumption where, like Superman's importance was that it had to work because you needed to get this new universe off the ground and you needed to understand that, like this is the new age of, you know, dc, which we can go into the tomorrow versus fantastic Four first steps was like the studio needs this one. The studio needs to get us ready for the big conflict, the big billion dollar movies that are about to come out. We need, we need to get us ready. And boy did they.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I mean the easy thing, getting the easy thing out of the way. It's easily the best Fantastic Four movie you never saw, the one from 1990., the bar wasn't very high, I'll admit, but this movie just far and exceeded any of those other Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Four movies, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:You know why? The family stuff, the family stuff, yeah, the family stuff I mean that's. I know I heard a lot of people I guess we'll talk about it a little bit more in spoilers saying like there wasn't enough you know action, Like they didn't use their powers enough, Like, if that's your complaint about a Fantastic Four movie, you really don't get the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 2:They've never really been about. They are. I would say there are three things right, they're. And the third thing in terms of priority is the superheroes. They're superheroes. Third, but they are more than superheroes, are scientists and explorers like that's, that's their bag? They are not, you know, they're not captain america, they're not the avengers. They are a family of of scientists and explorers who are more concerned with the machinations of the universe than they are saving the universe, I think the character that most benefits them and we can just kind of go down that route.
Speaker 1:Now is johnny storm a very and I saw some people complaining about. I didn't understand why like it's. It's one of those situations where it feels like you can't win either way. Oh, now he's not the. He still was in the film To the film's point. He still was that playboy. But also he's not an idiot. That's what I think people do not understand. Johnny Storm's not. He's not a dumb jock that dates women and drives fast cars. He had to train to be a NASA astronaut. He is a smart individual. His sister is a genius. His, his brother-in-law is a genius. Like the guy's gonna pick up some things, which he did in this film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean talk about it in spoilers, but he has one of my favorite scenes in the entire movie joseph quinn. I guess we could just start with the cast like joseph. Joseph Quinn is great. I mean, if you've been listening to this podcast since this cast got announced, I've been saying the entire time that he was going to crush this. I just you could tell. I mean, all I had to work on was how he was in Stranger Things, which is a similar offshoot to this version of johnny storm in the sense that he's got he's this rogue kind of brash exterior, but in here, is is heart and someone that cares very deeply about the people in his life, and he tapped into that in this movie for this role and and he was fabulous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and, like I said, he has one of my favorite scenes in the entire movie.
Speaker 1:Now he has to play Captain America in 10 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, a British guy playing Captain America. Oh yeah, it's a cardinal sin Oof and then Eben Boss Macarack, I think was one that we were both pretty excited for. As ben grim and he's great, I would say he probably gets the least to do it feels like, because a lot of his stuff was cut yeah, that, yeah, that definitely seems probable, but what he does get to do, not so much. Again, this isn't a movie that's about that.
Speaker 1:I think johnny probably uses his powers the most yeah, I feel like visual effects wise it was fire is pretty. I think that hollywood's got fire under control.
Speaker 2:That's great, though, oh yeah, it looks amazing when he's like the human torch and he's flying around. So, as far as like powers and showing off powers go like the thing doesn't do too too much, he's kind of there, is like this, which, again which is again to my point about not it being them, about using their powers it's he's, he's the, he's a stabilizing force throughout the entire movie yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I love how the fact that they're four years beyond and like johnny and ben's hazing is minimal, to the point where you know ben is like you know, like you, I hate to even put it. Like ben is their rock. Like ben is, you know. Ben is like you know I hate to even put it, but Ben is their rock. Ben is like you know. He makes everybody feel a little bit better. He's carrying Franklin around in his hand. He's just the great guy. He's like the great best friend of the friend group.
Speaker 2:That's like you're the best of us, like you really are, and you can still see that he has some misgivings and regrets about his physical state. Yeah, it's just not really told to us.
Speaker 1:No, but you can, but I think that's the true strength of ebn. Mas bakrak is as as ben grim as you can feel it. You know a lot of his physicality, a lot of his emotions and you know a lot of the, you know tone of his voice. You can feel that pain and you know it's a pain that just, it's never gonna go away. He's the only one that was, and reed talks about he's like you were the only one that was physically effective. Like you can, like the rest of us can, turn this on and off. Like I can't, but like I love how, this far in the future, ben came to terms with it. And like I love and we're gonna talk about pedro pascal last, but I love how, like reed's mind only goes like I, like I did this to you and ben's like, like we do, it's been four years like I'm, I'm fine, yeah, and I like the fact that he's not treated as like a freak by like the people either like mascot he's like, but yeah he's beloved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people walking around there they got their masks, like their thing masks, which is which is cool. And then, yeah, I mean we'll talk, we can. We'll talk about the other two in a second. I just want to pivot to the two antagonists. First and foremost, julia garner incredible, oh, she was awesome. She was awesome.
Speaker 1:Just portrayed everything that you could want out of a silver surfer in terms of like that, cold stoicism is a brokenness to the silver surfer as well, and like that cold stoicism is a brokenness to the silver surfer as well, and I always talk about it Like some of the best comics you can read are silver surfer comics, because they really capture it. I mean, donnie Donnie Cates really did a great job at it as well. Jay Michael Straczynski does a great job at it, or did a great job at it, like when the silver surfer deals in this, like job at it, like when the silver surfer deals in this like you know, existentialism of the isolation, of like you're the final survivor, and then, on top of that, you're doing the bidding of, like you know, of evil. But it's not evil, it's it's you know, it's benevolence, it's you know, it's the universe, nature. It's nature like, and they did a really good job of treating galactus as a, you know, as a natural disaster yeah, she.
Speaker 2:You know, behind the, the cold stoicism of the silver server you can tell just based on just her expressions. There's this kind of just mourning in that character that I think she just portrays magnificently and, like silver server, has one of the best action sequences in the movie, probably the highlight action sequence of the movie. To be honest, you take 2001.
Speaker 1:Gravity for that one shot they were just doing. Interstellar for the shot. Like the S-series of the ship shots, like the mounted camera shots that they actually shot, which they did. The Excelsior one was they had a 13 foot miniature. Miniature that they actually shot, which was really awesome. Interstellar 2001,. Gravity. Like they took all the best sci-fi movies of all time and they just did it in that scene. It was absurdly insane. She starts a black hole. The hour of that movie is just lightning. It is so good. Good. Like the first 30 is like the fantastic 4. The fantastic 4. Like I love the approach that sequence there is. Like it's money. Like that is such a great second act action sequence. But Julia Gardner is phenomenal. Ralph Einison yeah, yeah that voice it's.
Speaker 2:How is that even real? It's tremendous just the way he just is. I don't know. I don't know how else to say it.
Speaker 1:Dark side is like he is. He's a force, he's just a presence, like he. And again, like I love the approach where you know he talks about himself being older than the universe. Like he, you have all the comic isms of Galactus, but again there's this isolation.
Speaker 2:Oh, we'll talk about the comic isms in this movie because it's the main. The main solution that's devised in the third act is the most comic booky solution to anything.
Speaker 1:I think I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 2:And I love that. I love that. Yeah, but Galactus. Yeah but Galactus. Yeah. I mean, just I love this idea that he is trapped. Yes, and that he's like a prisoner to his own hunger.
Speaker 1:There's a narrative, there's like a thematic through line of being trapped, because obviously Ben's trapped the way they are, the four of them are trapped the way they are. The four of them are trapped the way they are the most impressive one, I think. That played from a character you know, arc lenses reads, trapped in his own mind and everybody else has to feel the wrath of that, especially Sue and you know. Going on to Sue storm, I mean it's, it's, it's. I thought when I saw it, when I was going into the movie, that was going to be the most impactful performance. It's a close second. It is a close second. That speech she has in the at the end of the second act is phenomenal, phenomenal. Vanessa Kirby I believe they're going to really utilize her going forward in the MCU as well, too, as one of their pillars.
Speaker 1:Like to your point, you said that before like you better kind of prop her up as much as you can. She is incredible as Sue Storm. She's not, you know, she's not used as a sex symbol, she is, no, not at all. We might have learned. She's the most powerful member of the Fantastic Four. She's incredibly powerful. She is incredibly powerful. They all are incredibly powerful. They really showed that like the things literally carrying an entire freight freight ship johnny's soaking up like an engulfing fire. Sue, we'll save it for a second. Yeah, sue does something absolutely insane and reed he's smart.
Speaker 1:He's smart, he uses the stretchy bits, and yeah and periods, but they do the best thing that you do with Reed Richards. That's not his power.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Vanessa Kirby. Just she runs the gambit of emotions throughout this movie. She does a great job of being not just the mother to Franklin Richards but really like the mom to the other two, To Ben and Johnny. There's that funny bit when they're kind of talking like about stuff and she just like pops in like what are you guys talking about? Like jesus, yeah don't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these characters aren't dull, these characters are. No, they bounce off.
Speaker 2:They all bounce in, like in a way that the first iteration and obviously the second iteration, like those other movies, they never really found the dynamic of the four of them together if that makes sense, yeah. It always felt like, especially in the first two Fantastic Four movies. It always felt like Reed and Sue, ben and Johnny Mm-hmm, whereas this one they kind of play like musical chairs with each other. Reed and Johnny have a couple scenes.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that Cause that's usually the one that falls through the white side, the most, reed and Johnny have some scenes together.
Speaker 2:Ben and Reed have scenes together, sue and Johnny have scenes together. Like they really like I said, they kind of musical chair it and really like let these actors bounce off of each other in a way that I thought was really effective and I think, you know, in more ways than one, she kind of drives the narrative forward. For a lot of these scenes, like when, when she, when she is angry, the team is angry, when she is calm, the team is calm, you know what I mean? Like it's really, it's really interesting how that, how that dynamic plays out. And again, vanessa kirby like just perfect, just outstanding. And then you know, last but not least, just outstanding. And then you know, last but not least, maybe the most divisive casting in recent memory for a comic book movie was pedro pascal as reed richards. Yeah, and man, was he phenomenal yeah, I I'm.
Speaker 1:This is gonna go down as one of my favorite providing. You remember when I got out of, like I feel like we were all buzzing about different things. I was specifically buzzing about how, in my opinion, incredible that Reed Richards was, and it's kind of simple for a man that's mind is so complex. It's very simple, like his mind is his greatest asset and it's also his worst enemy, and I've never seen it portrayed in live action that incredible. He truthfully, like the way his mind works, is so five-dimensional. But that's also the problem is that he sees everything. He sees absolutely everything, to the point where sue's like you know, sometimes you're, sometimes you know I do not like you for your mind, like you are, you are a bit you know, for lack of a better term evil.
Speaker 2:Like you the thoughts that you let run through your head and like, and one in particular which we'll talk about, is kind of chilling, yeah, at one point.
Speaker 1:Yep, he is. He's cold a bit, but he's also warm when he needs to be Like. That's why you get Pedro Pascal. It's like it's the same reason you made him Joel, because when he does the bad things, that's still Pedro Pascal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's. It's just funny. It's funny how the world works, like I mean, this guy is freaking and everything. You know why he's in everything.
Speaker 1:Because he's really good.
Speaker 2:Yes, he's really good at this acting thing. It turns out and that's no different than this Like he it's, it's great. The performance is great for a multitude of reasons. One it's great because he knows and maybe this is more of a directing thing than an acting thing but they know when to pull him back, yes, and to not make him the focus of the any given scene. Like they know, it's really just between him and Sue. Like they play that kind of tug-of-war game like all right, who's like? Is she leading the scene, is he leading the scene? And they never really step on one another, which I really really appreciated, you know, to the point where, like it would, it would have been really easy. Much like the first couple fantastic four movies like to make the plot center around him and make her kind of like the support to him, but it never plays across that way. They really do play like the two leads of the movie together and driving the plot forward together. Right, and they share I don't know 90% of the movies.
Speaker 1:They're in it probably man, he's so good, he is so good as Reed Richards, and you know we can just. I guess we can just kind of jump into spoilers as well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have any last, I don't know, I mean final thoughts would just be. I mean, I just think that people just need to and I hope Marvel does the same like just drop this idea that all of these movies are going to make a billion dollars.
Speaker 1:I mean it's. A lot of this comes from the new age that we're living in. Everything wants to be short form. That's part of it. You lessen a film's run time, you can get more plays, which in theory gets you more money. You know what also gets you more money Making a dang good movie sometimes, and obviously it sucks because Marvel's best two movies in recent memory have been the last two movies that they put out and they didn't make as much money as the crappy movies that they put out in the last in the last few years. So it's tough, it's tough.
Speaker 2:It's tough but at the same time, like I hope that they just realize like this is, regardless of what happens money-wise, like this is what people want. Right and granted, I know deadpool and wolverine made a billion dollars, but that's because of what it was. It was this, it was in a. It wasn't a spectacle in terms of like avengers, like being you know 100 million characters and tying together but it was. It was a spectacle in the sense that, like, these were two actors that people have been clamoring to see together on screen for years. Right, and it served as this homage to the Fox X-Men movies and all this other stuff that went into Deadpool, wolverine. I would say Marvel probably has three bankable billion-dollar properties the Avengers, spider-man and funny enough Deadpool Wolverine, but I wouldn't expect any of their other properties to broach a billion dollars. No, beyond those three properties, no at this point. No, I mean unless like whatever, unless it's not gonna happen, but unless they did like another iron man movie, which no but this is not gonna happen.
Speaker 1:The only in an x-men movie is not gonna crack a billion, unless it's like an adventure versus x-men which is not going to crack a billion?
Speaker 1:I don't think so, unless it's an Avengers versus X-Men, which is a, you know, a terrible, massive movie. You're not making a billion, they're just not going to. It's Avengers. Doomsday, avengers, secret Wars will both make a billion dollars. Spider-man probably will also, I think this new Spider-Man will, especially if they give a glimpse at Doom at some point, not attached to the spider-man movie, but like to get people ready, like I do truthfully think that that movie's gonna make a billion and again, that's why I personally think they added the hulk into that movie and you can just I mean they talked to these reported at, however long ago that kevin feige literally consulted with gareth edwards on like hey, how do we drive the cost down on these movies characters?
Speaker 1:yeah isn't it crazy how it didn't feel like they were spending trillions of dollars on these movies up until, like maybe like iron man 3, like you could start to really really feel it, like the movies didn't overtly feel like these, like insane three, like indiana jones um, the last indiana jones movie where it's 400 million dollar budget.
Speaker 2:Ant-man 2, ant-man, quantumania I think the budget was like $300 something million. Like this fantastic Marvel 4 movie looks spectacular and it's like a $200 million movie the Thunderbolts is.
Speaker 1:It's always going to be my example that the Thunderbolts is one of the best looking Marvel movies. But it's not the best looking Marvel movie because of all this other visual. It not the best looking Marvel movie because of all this other visual. It's the best looking Marvel movie because they have a definitive cinematographer. They have a definitive production design. They were doing most of the stuff practically. It's almost insane when you film make, you get good results.
Speaker 1:Shackman, he was film making miniatures he was using. He put Ralph Einison in the dang suit. He built all those sets that they were using. That's actual filmmaking. Like the Thunderbolts and fantastic four are like different sides to the same filmmaking coin where, like one's using, like you know, the George Lucas and the Stanley Kubrick approach and you know, one's using like the eight 24 cinema approach, like we're going to do everything, lower budget, all practically a lot of hand to hand, like, and the other one's like, no, if we're going to do this, we're going to make it feel like a, like a classic sci-fi film, which this movie is a sci-fi film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I guess that's the last thing I want to talk about before we jump into spoilers is just the world of this earth.
Speaker 2:Eight eight to eight classic, say that again. Oh man, the first, the retrofuturism stuff. Just it's like scratching into my brain that like you didn't know he had. Yeah, it's just like this is I told you I, I think you know I kind of buried the lead, but like I told you, like I don't think I stopped smiling from like the like during the first hour of the movie.
Speaker 2:I was just, I was, it, did the, it did the avatar thing for me. Like it teleported me to a different world and I was in like from like, from, like the word go. I was, I was in and I haven't felt that from a marvel movie since. Probably guardians of the galaxy, like the first guardians of the galaxy movie, did that for me, where and I mean not to say like all these other marvel movies black panther also did that to me too, but there was also an ellen black panther. Like it still takes place on earth, even though, like you know, flying into wakanda is one of the coolest, unbelievable moments in the mcu. It's unbelievable. And this movie did that type of thing for me, like it did what guardians did. It did what like that specific sequence in black Panther does. It teleports you to another world, which I mean. It is another world technically, but it's still. That's the thing you have to remind yourself about. This, too, is like it's still earth, but it's it's even beyond that.
Speaker 1:It's beyond, it's the Ted Gilbert show, it's the fact that they're you know they're on these live presentations and like that's where it's funny enough where.
Speaker 2:That's where the realism comes from. Reed richards is doing this and we'll talk about when we talk about the end of the movie. He's doing this. Bill nye, the science guy.
Speaker 1:He's like, bill nye, like rolled into one of like you know he's like this guy, that's like he is like you're like lead scientist to like the public, like he's the one that like he's like a scientific mr rogers. Yes, yes but I, but you, made a great point before this movie came out and they executed it like that's his front face it's all it's all fake he's cold, not fake, but it's, it's it's a performance, yes, that he puts on.
Speaker 2:Yes, he is, he's a bit cold, he's a bit. This isn't a spoiler, because they released a scene online. That's why it's so jarring for the audience Not the audience, but the crowd, the reporters when they get back from the Galactus mission and they're like whoa answer us this, are we safe? And he goes are we safe? I don't know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because his brain is computating. It's not his brain, doesn't? His brain wasn't dealing in emotional intelligence, he wasn't in p.
Speaker 2:He couldn't be in pr mode at that point. He was just reed richards, and that's why everyone was like what did he just say? Like miss, like mr. That's like, if mr rogers like yes, mr rogers like hey, mr rogers, is everything okay today and mr rogers is like no, like mr rogers is like is there a global pandemic coming out?
Speaker 1:and he's like maybe and you're like what?
Speaker 2:no, don't say that, what do you mean? So, yeah, the world is fantastic. I can't stop, I can't stop it, I can't stop myself from saying it, and I just love the fact that, again, like the first five minutes, they put online, like I just love like, boom, here they are. This is what they've done, this is what they're about. Then here you go and we're off to the races. I love that. So, yeah, I mean. That being said, we can jump into spoilers. The plot of this movie is galactus is coming to devour the earth, but he, upon meeting the fantastic four for the first time, realizes that sue storm is pregnant, and pregnant with a very, very gifted baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, he realizes that that baby has the power cosmic and like inside of him. So he's like, hey, that kid's gonna take my place and you're like, excuse me. He's like's like, no, that kid will do what I do, he'll be good. I love it because that adds the only layer of humanity you need to Galactus, that he's like he's tired. He's tired, I'm tired of this. Grandpa, I do not want to do this. Everyone in this movie is tired. He just I mean for lack of a better term. He, he just I mean for lack of a better term. He just wants to die at this point. He's like I need to be released from this. I'm in hell.
Speaker 2:I'm constantly hungry. You ever been hungry? Yeah, imagine being hungry all the time, yeah.
Speaker 1:He said I just ate a five course meal and I'm still hungry. I just ate Saturn, but Neptune's looking scrumdiddly. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:I'm sick of it. I love the steampunk element of the world ship.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah that was a cool little design choice. It did feel very 60s to it as well too 60s depictions of things like that. I thought it was pretty interesting as well too. It felt alien. It felt alien to the time. So, man, when they get there and he opens it like no, no, it's not even when his eyes light up.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh my God, he's cooking. Yeah, and again, the voice like Ralph Einiston was the perfect choice, because when he talks you listen. I think Ralph Einiston even said he doesn't speak, he decrees.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which I thought was a great way to describe it, and he's just like look, if you give me your child, child, I will spare your planet. Yeah, which, as far as galactus goes, it's as good a deal as you're gonna get sure, because usually he doesn't negotiate.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, galactus doesn't negotiate with ants.
Speaker 2:And and he did and I just love, I, I love the. I just love the faith that the people of earth have in the fantastic world yep, when they're like all right, we're gonna go up there, we're to show Galactus a thing or two about a thing or two.
Speaker 1:That's a big part of the comic-isms of this too, of like this is a comic book world Like this is Superman. Share that world, Everybody's like well, you guys can do it, it's a space race.
Speaker 2:Everyone's like yeah, here they go, like we're all gonna take off from work. And why wouldn't they?
Speaker 1:believe it if they're the only protectors on that world. And they defeated red ghost. They defeated every single villain mole man, mole man. They defeated mole man, mole man. By the way, man paul walter hauser that's not the last we're gonna see of him either. I, I love this little like spat that he had. Like him and reed rich are like they are.
Speaker 2:They just don't like each other, and not in a rival way, no, there's just something about each of them that they just don't.
Speaker 1:It's like the biggest reaction I got out of. Reed and his son was in mortal danger in this film. Oh yeah, when he called them out yeah, why I oughta. Oh, he should have had a good. Why I oughta? And she was like gentlemen Relax. And Paul Walter was like whatever you say, ms Richards.
Speaker 2:That was great. I really enjoyed that. But, yeah, I really like the fact that they're like all right, we don't know what this galactic is about. We're going to go up there and we're going to take care of it of.
Speaker 1:I love the hubris too because, yeah, in their mind they're like we haven't lost yet who's this area to lose. Now and then they get up there and they're like it's immediate too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's immediate. Like when they see galactus they're like holy shit.
Speaker 1:Well, I love the, I love the prelude to it and it being silver, even silver surfer gets there and they're like she's a bit of an issue. And then they get to galacticactus, they're like, oh, and like that must've how. It must've been how it felt reading those comments at the time, cause they had, you know, dealt with these earthly threats and then, well, excuse me, that's the thing, too.
Speaker 2:that people have got to understand about the fantastic four is like. People are like why are they not saving Galactus, to be like an Avengers level? I'm like here's the thing. Here's the thing you got the fantastic four. Even though there are only four of them, they are more capable than the Avengers.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, but together a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:There's a reason why there's a reason why there's a thousand X-Men, there's a reason why there's 400 people in the Avengers and there's a reason why there's only four people in the Fantastic Four. And the only time that they add another person in the Fantastic Four is when it's Spider-Man or She-Hulk or Wolverine.
Speaker 1:Wolverine is in every group. Yeah, he is. He gets the time to shine. Wolverine is always there.
Speaker 2:Yes, but there's a reason why the Fantastic Four are just four of them. It's because they just the four of them can handle a threat like Galactus Right. Like the Avengers were not would not solve the Galactus problem.
Speaker 1:No, they didn't have anybody that smart.
Speaker 2:They wouldn't have anyone who would decide what if we just took the Earth and moved it to another dimension?
Speaker 1:Oh, that was insane and I love the approach, bill nye approach. That's like if bill nye said we all need to mask up and make sure we wear our mask and we're gonna get through this pandemic, everybody's like all right. I didn't believe that part for once. You know what? If you're thinking about the 60s optimism, I would believe that the entire world would band together to do it, except for latver. Guarantee you. Doom said if you guys turn off one light tonight, I'm going to lose it.
Speaker 2:Just because I want to.
Speaker 1:I just want to give Reed Richards grief Don't even think about turning off that light.
Speaker 2:Again, like the Superman did this too. That resolution of we're going to teleport the Earth, huh, yes.
Speaker 1:Perfect, teleport the earth. Huh, yes, perfect, that's a comic book. That's a comic book solution. That is a 60s comic book solution. That's like when you're looking up like on watch mojo, like top 10, craziest comic feats of all time.
Speaker 2:Like what superman like grabs like a rope and he like ties planets together and he's swinging planets around like that. Like reed richards was like we could just teleport the earth, everybody was like, all right, yeah, great he did wartime.
Speaker 1:I need all the boys and girls to grab as much scrap metal as you can. I love that.
Speaker 2:I loved that, that little sequence. Yeah, it's like the little montage of like the earth working together to build these bridges, to teleport. What was black panther talking about? Like they just we're just gonna build like these bridges across the world. And look, reed richards teleported this egg across the room, so why can't he move the earth? Yeah, I love johnny too is like dude, you moved an egg across the room and now you want to move the whole blacked out the entire block when you did.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you want to teleport the entire earth. And reed's like well, I'm the smartest man that's ever. You know what? This is a Reed Richards that, I believe, is the smartest I yes, this is, you know, one of the cool little things that they added, like how of an inventor he is. Like he's just built. He's like did you build that crib? I built it. I built three other cribs. You can tell he's a bit, you know.
Speaker 2:Up on himself. No, no, no, you can tell he's a bit. Yeah, yeah, he is, but it's fun. So yeah, so yeah, sue's pregnant. We've all seen the pregnancy reveal scene. It's great.
Speaker 1:Galactus incites the pregnancy. Galactus is like skip two months Baby's coming now. You're like huh.
Speaker 2:I love because it answers one line that Galactus has. That answers a ton of questions, Because Reed obviously is Reed. He can't help himself. He's running 100,000 tests on this baby every day and Reed's like he doesn't have powers. He doesn't have powers and Galactus is like, no, he has powers, but he's so advanced that he's hiding his powers from you and reads like nah, I'm the smartest man alive yeah, and galactus is.
Speaker 1:And you know what I love how smart reed is. Reed is even so smart to understand that. Galactus is so old that intrinsically he's just going to be smarter than I am, because he's experienced way, way, way more than I have on different planets and different solar systems and he experienced the whole previous universe like I don't. I it's just an experience thing at that point is which is giving him, you know, the leg up on us. He said it's gonna take me a decade to try to figure out his physiology any way to do this. Like what, if we sacrifice Franklin's this, who's like huh?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's. That's. That's the moment right. There's a couple moments in that second act where, like, the mask comes off of reed richards, and one of them is one of them is the scene where he's talking to franklin in his lab and he's like you know, most fathers want their children to grow up to be like them and I don't want that. Most fathers want their children to grow up to be like them and I don't want that for you, because I'm a horrible person.
Speaker 1:I'm a horrible, terrible person that does horrible, terrible things. I mean that scene where he doesn't snap at Sue. But it's before them and you can feel the tension, especially with Johnny and Ben. They're like oh God.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like the kids, when mom and dad are fighting, you're like, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Sue's like. I can't believe you would even Sue, and this is part of why their relationship is so strong and why it's so because Sue already knew that he was going to think about it because they get back to earth and they're confronted by again by the reporters and the predictable thing happens.
Speaker 2:Where they're like we're not giving up our kid to Galactus and the public is like why not One?
Speaker 2:child, baby for 7 billion people, so they're debriefing. And then I love how he doesn't outright say it. I love that it's Sue that says it, where she's like you've already thought about it, you've already kind of come to I love that it's Sue that says it, where she's like you've already thought about it, you've already kind of come to the conclusion that it makes sense and that's why you suck. And then Reed's like I can't turn this off.
Speaker 1:I see every. He said I created basically a police. The police job is done for them so I can deal with other things. I think about ways to kill other people before they can kill you. That's the only way my brain works and that's, I think, one of the strongest narrative pieces for Reed Richards' character pieces is the fact that you can see why in the Ultimate Universe he turned into the Maker. The only reason that he turned he didn't have the rest of them.
Speaker 1:See what happens if he doesn't have his grounding force like his mind will go and it will go and it will go. And I really hope because I'm assuming post-secret wars they're gonna transport themselves to the future and they'll just be in. You know, they'll be in the present day as the fantastic four with the avengers and the x-men running around, but Reed will be like you'll see how far he can fall if he does. I just hope they really follow the Hickman run like post-Secret Wars, where he's like I'm going to solve every problem that there ever and he's going to be like I have a whole new universe to do this in. Now I have to basically start from scratch and fix everything, yeah and I love and I just love that.
Speaker 2:That. I love that he is aware of it, like usually. It's usually it's like he's going about his business and it's usually some other character that will, like come to them and be like hey, you know you suck for this, this reason, right, but like he already knows that, he already knows what his flaws are and he just his. His realization is like he can't change that. No, but he can't, you know, he can't undo it, he can't change it. So he's just trying to do his best with it and sometimes his best is, you know, the worst decision. You know, morally, but mathematically it makes sense. And even ben and johnny are like nope, nope, absolutely not, we're gonna find another way. And then meanwhile the public is turning on them, which is something they've never experienced and that paves the way. For you know, one of the things about Sue Storm in this movie is that she's a diplomat essentially she's an envoy for like this earth's version of the UN, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really cool kind of again. I love how comic book of this universe is. I love how and it goes it ties into the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 2:It kind of actually ties more into like the Justice League versus the Avengers, where I don't know if you've read any of those crossover comics but, like they switch Earths at one point and the Avengers get to the justice league's earth and they see like the flash has a museum and like superman has all these statues and like, holy crap, like there are heroes that like are actually revered by people. Everybody hates us and I think that would be a nice thing for when this happens too. Like the fantastic four get to like the main earth and they're like why does everyone hate superpower people? Like we're kind of beloved, so for them like it's very jarring when the public starts turning on them and Sue Storm uses you know, like Reed is like his mind is a superpower, but for Sue Storm, like her diplomacy is her superpower and like her empathy is her superpower, humanity.
Speaker 1:humanity is really what kind of drives her. She understands, she knows what loss feels like. She knows what family feels like and I think that's the most important thing. I mean, she talks about Dom Toretto somewhere. No, dom Toretto's like I love you, sue. Sue, you get it. Sue understands, sue, you understand, she understands, she gets why it's so important. She talks about her father, and her father wasn't perfect, but he tried and like the importance of family, like I had, like we have this superhero team, but it's my husband, my brother and my best friend. Like this is our, this is our family. And now our son like this is our family and like you guys are our family, the planet earth is our family.
Speaker 2:like we will protect you it's one of the best lines of the movie when she says I will not sacrifice my son for the world, but I will not sacrifice this world for my son. Like we will find a way to win, like all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I sat up in my seat and I was like oof, like she's let her cook.
Speaker 2:That was hard. And then I mean I guess you know Ben has a little side plot, sort of that felt like it got cut With Natasha Lyonne. Classic Ben Grimm sat in a trench coat looking longingly at a woman. Subplot.
Speaker 1:I'm glad they didn't make her Alicia Masters, because hopefully post-Secret Wars they'll kind of go about, because this franchise is only going to build upon itself, like it's going to do the Black Panther thing, where a big portion of Doomsday is probably going to be in common sense of this.
Speaker 2:This movie does not end in a way that I thought it was going to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too, me too. This movie ends in the 70s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, I was convinced and the Thunderbolts post-credits scene kind of maybe intentionally tricked me into doubling down on this idea that galactus was going to actually destroy the earth.
Speaker 2:yeah, and the fantastic four were going to abscond to the main mcu earth right and the thunderbolts post-credit scene kind of made me want to double down on that idea, because obviously in the thunderbolts post-credit scene the fantastic four ship flies in, right, but no, it seems like this, like to your point, it feels like this is going to be like the wakanda thing where, like this earth 828 becomes maybe a bigger part of doomsday than we anticipated. Yeah, I mean, like I said, you keep this. Kevin even alluded to as much where he said like we already have plans for some avengers characters to be in the baxter building living room, right you keep it very simple.
Speaker 1:I let's just get this the third act of this movie, galact. So basically they can't. Silver Surfer destroys all the beam Great scene yeah, where she's. Because you're like, you're like in the theater, like wow, this is actually gonna work.
Speaker 2:In the theater you're thinking like your move, like you're Well, because they trapped the Silver Surfer in a black hole Right.
Speaker 1:So you're man, that scene. I'm going to think about that scene for a long, long time. That whole scene. It's a long that scene goes, as long they're a rival to their departure, it's insane.
Speaker 2:She can fly at light speed.
Speaker 1:They're like she's still following us yeah, and he's like all right. And then even like it's not Chris Evans Johnny's story, like he actually locks in and he's just like okay.
Speaker 2:I got it.
Speaker 1:We're going to get to the scene in a little bit, but yeah, they get there. I think in your head, your moviegoer sense is like okay, well, what's going to happen is that he's going to transport the earth and then some shenanigans is going to happen and you know, she's going to come out of the black hole right next to the earth. They're going to be. She's going to be like galactus, get over here, like I'll be there in an hour moving very slow yeah let me heat my car up.
Speaker 1:I'll be there and I love how the movie is like. Galactus is going to be here in three days, oh shoot galactus is driving his little world ship. Yeah, I love how he could treat it like a Honda Odyssey. He's just like, just driving, no like, how do?
Speaker 2:we and I love how. Like yeah, so to your point, like the Silver Surfer just reemerges, and she's, they're like why are all the bridges going offline? And it's because the Silver Surfer is literally flying around the earth destroying them all. And you're like, oh God, she's, she's mad, destroying them all and you're like, oh God, she's mad.
Speaker 1:Yep, she's about to get to the last one. But Johnny, which is the?
Speaker 2:Go ahead. I love this bit, I love this bit, I love this little side plot yeah the B plot.
Speaker 2:That's operating in the background of Johnny Storm being the only person that wants to understand what the hell the Silver Surfer's about. And I love that he just does it when he's working on it by himself. He's doing this whole thing by himself. He gets a recording from Deep Space and he's like I swear to God, I've heard this language before. And then he has like two distinct moments with the Silver Surfer early in the movie, one we saw in the trailers where he goes up into space and she kind of gives him like the, she looks at him. I love that little shot of like his face reflecting in her face and then she kind of just punts him off the board. Then he tries to like get to know her a little bit more when on the world ship, when they warn him like johnny, don't use your powers yeah, in the spaceship you're gonna burn, you're gonna burn through your oxygen.
Speaker 2:He's like, nah, I got this. And she says to him in like her language, like love, love yours or something whatever she says. And john, in like her language, like love, love yours or something whatever she says. And Johnny's like that was weird, but I could have swore I heard this language before. And then he starts Rosetta Stoning based on her words, her language, and it culminates in him going out when she's destroying all the bridges and he confronts her in Times Square and he traps her basically with the words of her own people and he starts speaking her language to her. And it's a scene in the movie that made me go wait a minute. What is going on? This movie is cooking right now and he breaks.
Speaker 1:He breaks her he basically, for all intents and purposes, tells her are you going to keep being this monster? Even though he did the exact. Why does your world get to survive but my world gets to die? All these other planets get to die just because you picked them out for it? He said Galactus isn't picking these worlds out, you're picking these worlds out, so you're just okay with all these people dying. Even though you get to be, your world was sacrificed.
Speaker 2:And then they do a little bit of, you know, annihilation wave foreshadowing, when he just is like, instead of taking, take me, let me be, let me replace you as the Herald of Galactus. I will do that to save my family and save this world and to save you, yeah, which is like I got chills, like just talking about this scene Because it just it doesn't come out of nowhere but it's not really. You're just not really paying as much attention to it Because, like Johnny, this whole movie is like he's a little wacky but like he's working on something. Movies.
Speaker 1:Like he's a little wacky but like he's he's working on something, but you, you don't really, I guess you don't really think he's actually gonna solve it by himself. He's gonna like walk by and be like just carry the two, and he's like, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:But the fact that he actually solves this by himself and he's the one, he's the only one on the team that tries to understand the silver surfer, because, like, like that's his angle, like that's the cool thing is, like the because ben kind of just kind of falls in line a little bit like sue kind of has her angle on how to deal with this, reed has his angle and johnny has his angle. And johnny's angle is like I'm not gonna try and stop galactus, I'm gonna try and get to her because I can understand her. Like it's gonna read said whatever, it's gonna take him a jillion years to understand galactus, like johnny's, like I can understand her like as much as you want to like kind of laugh it away, like that we had a connection, like we did connect.
Speaker 2:Like she spoke to me, like in her language that means something. It's like I'm gonna try and pull on that thread. And he eventually pulls on that thread to the point where he breaks her. You know it doesn't feel like he does because like she of just is like look, I can't, I'm not talking about this. We see her backstory but she doesn't outwardly tell it to Johnny. He's like I get it. You did this to save your world.
Speaker 1:Now let me take your place and your daughter which is probably Noren Rad's daughter, is what I'm assuming this world is. Is that, instead of Noren that went, it was Shalabal that went. And then I wonder if they're going to do a situation where she meets Noren, who also turned into the Silver Servant. She's like ah, gotcha too, eh.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So she kind of tells Johnny basically like hey, sorry, but Galactus is coming and if you don't kill the child, like your earth is destroyed. But it's like it. Obviously it sits in the back of her mind because she comes back at the end of the movie. So the world, the bridges are destroyed and everyone's like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 1:and reed's like we got one bridge left. Thank you, johnny, we wouldn't use all. We can divert all the power into one bridge and transport galactus across the universe right, but in order to do that, how are we going to get galactus in time square in new york city on the entire planet and reed's like look, reed, reed looks at franklin. He's like. She's like don't. He's like I didn't say anything's like I didn't say anything, you didn't have to.
Speaker 2:You didn't have to. We got to use the baby as a diversion, yeah, as bait, yeah, yikes, yeah. But we're going to do the old Scooby-Doo we're going to put the real baby in a carriage and then we're going to swap the real baby out with a fig baby, and that's going to trick Gal enough to teleport him across the universe without a ship.
Speaker 1:So he'll be stuck out there for a real long time. Yeah, one google years he'll be out there, we're good.
Speaker 2:So that works because galacta shows up and he gets out of a ship and he's like oh, new york city, the land of opportunity.
Speaker 1:He looks at the set, he looks outside. He's like if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. He's stomping about. I love how he jumps out of his ship and just creates a tidal wave in New York City.
Speaker 2:Roland Emmerich eat your heart out.
Speaker 1:He grabs the dirt and he's like, hmm Wow, it's like me when I was a kid, looking at Ant Hill and just picking it a little bit Earth dirt.
Speaker 2:He looks at the Statue, but he was like, hmm, you look French.
Speaker 1:That's weird, yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 2:Where's my statue? Yeah, where's my Galactus statue. Why don't?
Speaker 1:I get one of those.
Speaker 2:So he's stomping through New York City and he gets to the thing and he looks down and he sees the Fantastic Four. They're like quick, quick switch the babies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somebody fire at his head, or no, johnny, what do they do? They do the. Oh, it's clobbering time.
Speaker 2:He said it. Johnny never says flame on, but Ben does say it's clobbering time Does he not say flame on.
Speaker 1:He does Not, once the doll says it.
Speaker 2:The little figurine says it in the cereal, which is funny. So, yeah, they do a little. They fall one step short of putting together a giant rope to trip Galactus in. Oh my gosh, which is what they should have done. Yeah, galactus falls over. Yeah, so they do. The old baby switcheroo Galactus gets right to right in front of the spot that he needs to get to, to teleport him, and he's like you guys switched the baby, didn't you.
Speaker 1:There's no baby here. I have the power cosmic you idiots.
Speaker 2:You thought that was gonna work. So he uses his Galactus vision to look at the backseat building and he sees the baby there. Galactus has heat vision. He has like heat, like Infrared, infrared vision I guess Part of his powers. Very cool, he sees the baby and herbie's herbie. What a gem. We love herbie. Yeah, thought bad things were gonna happen to herbie, but they didn't. Yeah, couldn't do it. Herbie was like oh, galactus is coming, shuts the shut the windows, yeah start singing to franklin and galactus is like.
Speaker 2:You thought a metal shutter was gonna stop me. That would have been funny if it did. It was made out of vibramium. He smashes through the building, grabs the baby. He's very delicate with that baby, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah he's like come on, come on, dog, you better take my job and he's leaving with the baby.
Speaker 2:And that's when the fantastic force spring into action. Everyone start, reed starts using his, everyone's using their powers johnny and wolf.
Speaker 1:Oh no, he does the covering bit because he throws ben into the atmosphere just to show how incredibly stupid strong Galactus is. Yeah, and Johnny has to go get him. Johnny brings him back down. He's like do the thing, dog. He's like I don't want to Do it.
Speaker 2:It's close, cannonball Thing. Cannonball into Galactus, knocks him backwards. Galactus is like whoa, ouch Galactus is dead. What Ouch Galactus said? What the hell did I just get hit?
Speaker 1:with yeah a rock.
Speaker 2:Literally, quite literally, got hit with a rock. You got hit with a space rock. Reed Richards is doing all sorts of stretchy. I don't know what he's doing. He's stretching around, but Galactus got him.
Speaker 1:He's about to snap him.
Speaker 2:He rubber bands him. Galactus was smiling, yeah, when he was pulling reads like this is fun, I like this, yeah, johnny's throwing fireballs not working, not really working, and then hell hath no fury. Like a mother scorned, yeah, or a mother about to lose her child because sue storm decides. What.
Speaker 1:if I was a multiversal threat, yeah yeah, what did they say in X-Men 97? Omega level threat detected? Yeah, it's the same bit. Diplomacy only works for so long before you gotta get those hands dirty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she decides to start going to work.
Speaker 1:Literally just starts pushing Galactus back. You think the first punch is like all right, well, everybody got a little hit in. And then she hits him with the second wave and you're like you're sitting there and you're like she's not that strong, is she? Then she hits him with the third wave and I'm like is she that strong?
Speaker 2:Then she hits him with the last wave that pushes him right into the she's pushing yeah, she's pushing Galactus back and she's like it's taking like a toll on her and it's clearly this is something like they know she's capable of, because even Reed is like don't, don't, like you're pushing yourself too far, like this is crazy what you're doing here. Then Ben kind of helps out. Ben knocks a building down. He runs through the supports Like a line like Derrick Henry, Him and that robot from the creator would get along.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man got the ball in the backfield and said I'm gonna get some yardage.
Speaker 2:He runs through some pillars, the building, galactus gets hit with a building and then Galactus is like whoa, and then Silver Surfer comes back.
Speaker 1:Galactus, sue does it, sue pushes him through and everybody's like, yay, turn the bridge on. Yeah, turn the bridge on Bridges. Turning Galactus is like psych.
Speaker 2:Psych. He thought this bridge was gonna stop me. Galactus is coming back through and they're like oh God.
Speaker 1:And Johnny, again, annihilation away from the Hickman run. He's like, Johnny's like I got this. I'm gonna just give him one good old fire punch and he's back.
Speaker 2:Super Sonic punch baby and guess what?
Speaker 1:And guess what, what's the line he says? He said tell Frank his uncle loves him. He's like, no, don't do this.
Speaker 2:Joseph Quinn. Ladies and gentlemen, it's his second heroic sacrifice that I've seen him in a movie, but it wasn't a sacrifice because Silver Surfer said I'm going down with him. She flies in, crashes into Galactus, they both get teleported. God knows where Galactus will return in 500 million years, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or in a movie coming near you soon. Can't imagine he's too thrilled with the Silver Surfer. No, because they're both on the other side of the universe and he's probably looking at her and she's looking at him. He's like, hmm, that's going to be side of the universe and he's probably looking at her and she's looking at him.
Speaker 2:She's he's like that's gonna be an hr meeting. Yeah, do you think galactus has an hr department or is it just a silver server? He has the hr department, so that she's gonna have a, she's gonna have a talk. Yeah, yeah, she's gonna have a.
Speaker 1:She's gonna have a sit down with him, did you think? Did you think we could have handled that any differently? Is there something else we could have done there? We're going to dock your pay.
Speaker 2:Instead of you torpedoing into me and teleporting us both to the other side of the universe, Because where are we and the surfers are like? Well, I have the surfboard that lets me fly at light speed.
Speaker 1:So I'll see you. And he's like don't you even dare, don't do it, don't do it, I'm going to do it, don't do it.
Speaker 2:So Galactus is gone and unfortunately for Sue Storm that little bit, she professor X'd herself. Yeah, she's dead, she's dead. Yeah, rip, she dies. What did you like? I've seen the cats where Avengers doomsday.
Speaker 1:This isn't going to work. She was one of the first chairs we saw. Actually, was she the first chair?
Speaker 2:No, Chris Hemsworth was the first chair. She was the second chair, yeah, but I mean they do, even though, like our comic nerd brains know she's going to come back. They do really a nice job of like building up that drama. Oh, she's dead and you're like, oh shoot.
Speaker 1:Like how's this, how's?
Speaker 2:this gonna work yep and baby franklin's.
Speaker 1:Like I want my mommy, yeah I want, I want her and yeah. So franklin brings her back. Her eyes light up, the same way that peter quill's eyes lit up, and guardians too. That's the power cosmic baby. That's reincarnation. I'm not allowed to quote jonathan magis. That was a specific producer. Ask of me. I can't quote Jonathan Mendes anymore.
Speaker 2:So Franklin, yeah, Franklin unveils himself I guess, for lack of a better word like outs himself as a superpowered being Right and brings Sue Storm back to life, and all's well, that ends well, all's well that ends well.
Speaker 1:The Fantastic Four are doing good.
Speaker 2:They're back on the Ted Gilbert show they're trying to make the Fantastic Five a thing. Yeah, and Reed and. Sue say no no, no, no, it's dumb, no, this is stupid. We get a really nice fun bit with the three men trying to get Franklin into a car seat in the Fantastic Four. And they can't crack it. Reach your hand around.
Speaker 1:Johnny, I am reaching around. He said Ben's like my hand is. I can't fit my hand in there.
Speaker 2:And that's how the movie ends. That is so good. The movie's amazing, Like I just think. There's really no other way to explain it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I mean, it's the performances. These performances are great and that's all you can ask for as like that. Should that should be like. You know, it's something you can consider a bare minimum, but it's it's tough to do still and room for them to grow and develop.
Speaker 2:All four of them have have room to grow and develop within the confines of of the mcu and within the confines of their own stories.
Speaker 1:That being said, Pedro Pascal is going to be the main character of Avengers Doomsday.
Speaker 2:If he's not it's criminal.
Speaker 1:I will just tell you right now that that is the smartest choice that Marvel can do is have him be the main character. When we talked about it, we were like it's getting real late and we do not know who's going to be the main character. It's him.
Speaker 2:It would be gross negligence if this movie comes out and he's not how it, who it centers.
Speaker 1:You play off. What you do in that movie just to get the Avengers is because that's the name of the movie. Is you just? You just deal with him, or you deal with this. You deal with the split Avengers and you make them want Avengers. That's all you do. They're probably going to have a fight in the beginning. You deal with the fantastic you feel. You deal with the fact that Doom is from that Earth. That's how you get the Fantastic Four into this conflict and you're like again you made a good point outside the theater. The Avengers are going to be like. You look exactly like Iron man from a different universe. You must be good in the Fantastic Four, like nope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have to talk about that. Nope, we have to talk about the post-credits scene.
Speaker 1:It was him right. That's what they said. That's what Matt Shackman said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was actually so. Yeah, before we get into any Avengers stuff, there is two post-credits scenes. The one at the very end of the credits is a fun Fantastic Four cartoon, which I think you said it.
Speaker 1:They should just make that, yeah yeah, disney Plus, like just do a few episodes of this Fantastic Four cartoon. You saw they were actually in the black and blue suits. Like they actually filmed something in those black and blue suits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was like yeah, a lot of the flashback-y stuff, Well, Jackman said they cut a ton out of that movie.
Speaker 1:But he was still happy with the final edit, which sure. But he said they cut a lot out of that movie.
Speaker 2:But the scene that everyone is buzzing about and was interested in is the first post-credit scene which takes place Four years, another four years after. Yeah, yeah, it's 71, I think it's like 1971. Yeah, so we're still. We're now eight years into the Fantastic Four being a thing. Yep, and Franklin's a little bit. He's a toddler now. He's reading Darwin.
Speaker 1:Well, he was reading a baby book and then he's just like he's like I want my. You know, I want a different book. And he's like put the Charles Darwin away. You could tell he's. He's an absolute super genius, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then she turns and she picks up this other book and as she's walking back to to the Sue storm we're talking about, by the way, as she's walking back to Franklin, she has this look on her face.
Speaker 1:You hear some like a warp of, like somebody just transported into the room.
Speaker 2:And lo and behold, there's a cloaked individual holding Franklin and showing him, kind of showing him his mask. It's Dr Doom. That got a big reaction. Yeah, because just it answers and both presents a lot of different questions. First and foremost, it answers the question of dr doom being from their earth to keep it to don't overcome.
Speaker 1:This is the easiest way. You just have dr doom be from. It's the easiest way to get them in contention with each other. So a bit that they did throughout the movie is you see the un and latveria, because sue got the entire world on board, latveria was the only country that didn't have a representative, obviously because they have one monarch, which is dr doom, and he said heck, no, no, I'm not going. Nope, I hate, though. I hate reed richards. I hate reed richards. I hate the way that you talk. I hate you.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it confirms that. It seemingly confirms that they know each other.
Speaker 1:Yes, because she didn't pretty intimately. Yeah, she didn't react like, uh, who are you? She reacted like, oh, yeah, so that's, that's interesting. Like we said, I think shackman did say that that was robert and he also said that the russos directed that scene. He didn't Same thing as the Thunderbolts that the Russos have, been that they directed the last two post credits. Maybe they should have done the Brave New World one, because, wolf, we're going to forget that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is, that one was rough. So, yeah, I mean it opens up a whole lot.
Speaker 1:And then, like I said, it opens up a whole lot of other in the sense that, like, clearly he's been, he's been dr doom for a bit yeah, at least for my head, canon, I feel like they dealt with him not dealt with him early, but like he had a plot, like him and reed knew each other. And again, uh, robert downey jr and asia pascal are similar in age. Like they're not. They're a few years apart from each other. So they're similar in age.
Speaker 1:Obviously you're talking about the greatest character actor to come out of the MCU and probably the most famous actor in the world right now. Like all intensive purpose, I'm just I'm envisioning that Secret Wars, alex Ross cover with the two of them and like the entire multiverse collapsing around them. Like that's how you're going to approach it. Like you got lucky that this was the last you know big, not multiversal movie, but movie that had to deal with. Like characters that will go out into the multiverse at some point, like before doomsday. Because I think Spider-Man is good, because that's more of like a studio thing to have that be the last movie before. But yeah, you just just make it rock. Just don't overcomplicate this. That he's from a different, different, no, he's from their universe. They dealt with him already, not dealt with him. He's just like all right, I'm just going back to my area they're familiar with him.
Speaker 2:Yes, we're familiar with him and they're familiar with how dangerous he is.
Speaker 1:Yes, and Reed's like this is the only person that gets remotely close to me and I do not like that. So for him to transport what I think I mean we can kind of theorize for doomsday. I mean how I would approach this you may be, cause you got to do something where Thanos beat the ever, ever loving daylights out of Hulk, got to find a way for him to like kill all the Kangs. Like that's the immediate, like kill all the Kangs and take control of the TVA is probably how he starts. And I was watching Deadpool and Wolverine.
Speaker 1:I was like you can probably make a case that at some point he took the control of the TVA away from Kang. So that way he's like he has this, like this you know omniversal fighting force behind him that just does his bidding, that kind of deals with the Raboom Malal stuff from the comics. Like he has this like force behind him that can basically just bring you and send you, you know, to a place you can never return from. Like you can deal with all those things. You get Paisley Pascal and Robert Downey Jr right against each other. It deals with the main character issues, because it's Paisley Pascal is going to be the main character.
Speaker 2:Because I think that the Avengers are also going to look to him to be like well, if you dealt with him before, well, I think, yeah, I mean, I think I think what likely happens is doom probably gets to the main earth first. Yes, and there.
Speaker 1:I don't think he gets to the main earth first. I think he gets to the x-men universe first. I just that's been the biggest question I've had how do you weave in the x-men to this, like the og x-men into this?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I mean that's always been.
Speaker 1:My question too is how does this, unless he wants somebody from the x-men specifically I think it would be magneto. Yeah, like why would I?
Speaker 2:don't know that's the thing. But again, like, based on, like, the casting of those original x-men characters.
Speaker 1:Like, you and I are of the same mind that it's going to be a similar x-men universe, but not the actual fox x-men universe I wonder if they're going to do a situation where that universe is like the one where they all died, like the one that you know obviously deadpool and wolverine made a billion dollars, like it's. That universe is x-men, where they all are, they're all comic, accurate, like something else happened. Or, like you said, an adjacent universe where it's x-men 97. That's the team they want because it still legitimizes channing tatum being there as gambit and get you know, and you could still bring back anna paquin to play rogue. Like you can have all the og x-men right there they're just a bit older. Like you can still legitimize all those things. And then it's like he comes, he comes to them and he's just what I would assume would probably work.
Speaker 1:Is that the first and the first incursion would be probably the x-men universe. That's how you immediately get them into the story because they're like they find a way to survive. And they're like what? Because beast from the end of the Marvels. That's probably the universe of that X-Men. Whatever X-Men we're going to see in Avengers, doomsday, it's going to be from that universe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure, I don't think they're going to mess around with there being two different X-Men universes. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:It's just going to be like a very fully realized version of the X-Men.
Speaker 2:Which is great, yes, yes. The only reason I would say Doom should get to the prime earth first, before the Fantastic Four, is I feel like there needs to be some sort of contention between the Avengers and the Fantastic Four, and that would be a natural thing for Dr Doom to get there and somehow some way recognize that Tony Stark was like a thing, not a thing, the thing and use that as a way to appeal to the Avengers. And then, when the Fantastic Four show up, they're like that's not who you think, that is, like that's Victor Von Doom, like he's from our Earth, and they're going to be like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:I wonder if they like find a way where, like Professor X, reads somebody's mind and he's just, like you know, like we realized, tony Stark was adopted. Tony Stark wasn't the son of, you know, of Maria and Howard Stark, like you know, blood related. Like he was adopted from Latveria when he was a baby and we took him. And they took him because they really they got red sun Superman.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Howard took him because he realized how smart he was and because weren't people saying, like in avengers endgame, the timeline doesn't match up between his birth, because even tony looks confused when he's like my wife's expecting and tony's like something doesn't seem right. So or it can be the vice versa situation where, like in this universe, like the starks were at the starks, the starks turned into the von dooms instead, and that was just the way that the world went for him. So so he you know the start like the Von Doom lineage, just stayed in Latveria instead of going to America and turning it into Star Wars.
Speaker 2:There's going to be some natural contention between the Avengers and the Fantastic Four and then eventually, somewhere maybe it's like a Shuri type like gets to see Avengers and is like no, he's actually like ridiculously smarter than all of us.
Speaker 1:And everybody's looking at Trurie like no, no, no, you're the smart one. And she's like no, no, no, no, no, like he's like, he's disgustingly smart. It's almost like a power like of how smart he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the fantastic first steps, yeah and I mean it did a lot of things really well and I think it just got the ball rolling in a positive way for Avengers. Because I think now again I think they'd be foolish to not try and build this thing around Pedro Pascal and make him kind of like the main character and then, just like I just have a feeling based on maybe it's probably a secret wars event, but I can't help but think they're gonna do iron man versus doom at one point yeah, you're probably gonna go throughout the multiverse and like get like a very comic bookie looking version of the original avengers, yeah, who go against doom and it's, like you know, showdown of the of the millennium between the two of them.
Speaker 2:Robert Downey Jr versus Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker 1:Break the Internet situation. The two of them fighting each other like that, that's it right there. Like the invincible Iron man, like the fully most powerful version of Iron man, fighting against Doom instead of Reed and Doom.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, I mean it just feels like they have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that would be the only thing that makes sense. Like they devise a plot to go get the Avengers. I don't know what machinations they're gonna make to get there for for Secret War, I don't know what's it. Because Secret War I don't think. I think Disney understands. Do not spare one cent on me. If the budget needs to be 500 million, we're gonna make 2 billion anyway.
Speaker 2:It does not matter yeah, I think it's gonna be the most talked about thing to ever happen in a movie theater ever I think they're gonna run back the avengers endgame plot in the sense of like, hey, we're gonna revisit like endgame. To like we're gonna revisit all these old things to like get the infinity stones. But like in saber wars, it's gonna be we're gonna go get these.
Speaker 1:Oh, like other characters like go to like sam raimi's universe, like go to like singer's universe, like, yeah, we're gonna hop all around these different universes and like see, like kind of like how, like the, the, like the end credits of deadpool and wolverine yeah, and the song, like it's gonna feel like that they're bouncing around all these other universes like look at us, from blade to avengers, secret Wars. This is our lineage of what we were able to create over all these years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because if Kevin Feige can be believed, he basically said after Secret Wars, they're going to restart the MCU.
Speaker 1:It's just going to reset. The Fantastic Four will be in that universe. The X-Men will be as if the X-Gene was always a thing in that universe. The Avengers will be as if the the x gene was always a thing in that universe. The avengers will be a thing like. I wouldn't be surprised if they recast iron man. No, I would. I would hope that they would. Yeah, I'm in captain america and thor, but like it's still a continuation of the universe, still so, like some characters will still like. Tom holland will probably keep playing peter parker, but like you know, you're gonna get a new captain america. You're gonna get like a. You know you're going to get a new Captain America. You're going to get like a new Iron man. You're going to get a new Thor. I wonder if I think Chris Hemsworth will just keep playing Thor.
Speaker 1:I don't see it Probably yeah, you might get a new Hulk out of this, like they're going to probably remix, like how they did the Avengers, because the X-Men are going to make it easier that they're around and, like now, you can try to dip into some new characters.
Speaker 2:I wonder if you take another shot at kang in like 12 years you know, what I mean, like you take a different shot at them yeah, this is a lot, of, a lot of interesting moving parts, and I think we even said like coming out, like I think everyone needs to like just relax about the robert downey jr thing. Like I think he's gonna be really good as dr doom, like I don't. I don't foresee that being an issue.
Speaker 1:What did we just see? He made 500 million dollars playing iron man in the mcu yeah, disgusting that is. And then he just said what if I go one in oscar? And then he's like you know what, I still love the game, I'm coming back, man that they really have an opportunity to get him and pedro pascal like head to head against each other. Like man, they really have an opportunity to get him and Pedro Pascal head to head against each other. I remember that was one of the first things I said walking out of the theater. They figured out the main character thing. You got it right there and you got it through.
Speaker 2:Probably the most famous actor on the planet right now and let them have a real dialogue and a real battle of ideals.
Speaker 1:I want to see how. You know what would be interesting, if Reed somewhat agrees with Doom's perspective on things, for him to be like. I could see that Well, it's us or them. Which one do you want to have this be? And imagine it's the X-Men, like the X-Men we were growing up watching on the other half of that, and you're like, whoa wait wait, wait.
Speaker 2:That could be not for nothing. That could be like the first kind of opening of doomsday is like it opens on that, like her confronting doom, and reed shows up and he's like what are you doing here? He's like.
Speaker 1:He's like this isn't something that is about us, it's about everyone, and not everybody on this planet, everyone on every single last planet. Yeah, he's like I can save them, I need you. And reed's like well, what are you thinking? And sue's like nope, nope, nope. And I guarantee you guess what he's probably gonna say I need this boy if we're gonna do this.
Speaker 2:And reed, sue's like absolutely not and then they're gonna have like a remix of like this movie where, like he doesn't say anything and she looks like you're joking right, and he's like and like.
Speaker 1:I do think they're gonna do a version of the illuminati where it's gonna be pedro pastel's read you know you're gonna get. You think they're gonna get a black panther. I mean, what you can do is just make a cherry, just keep it simple and make a cherry professor actually get you'll get patrick store dr. Strange. It'd be interesting if Doom was the last member of this Illuminati and this like for whatever they're trying to do. That would be interesting.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think, the more I think about it, like that could be a great kind of opening for Doomsday, where, like Reed and Doom are like, not on the same page, but like Doom is like, hey, this is the only way we can save our universe. Is if you kind of listen to me and we kind of put our heads together and reads like I mean, you know not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like these incursions are going to start. Once they start, they will not stop and, like I guarantee you, she's probably going to be like what did you do? Like what sorcery did you do to collapse the multis? Like I didn't do anything, it's just the way of the world, I didn't do a thing.
Speaker 1:Because you're gonna think, like the century's probably gonna have a plot piece to this. Like I wonder if, like, there's gonna be a plot where, like they realize, like dude's so powerful to the point where, like sure he's like we gotta figure out a way to sever the sever the void from the century. Because, like you're our best shot at beating him, I guarantee you, the members of the thunderbolts, you're our best shot at beating him, I guarantee you, the members of the thunderbolts are going to be like, hey, we got the solution right there. And bob's going to be like, well, I can't do it. Like I can't do it, or everyone's going to die. Like we need him. Like I'm going to be really interested to see how this is going to go yeah, yeah, I did, and that's what this, you know it's part of.
Speaker 2:On top of being its own really great standalone movie, it got the gears turned.
Speaker 1:Yes, in a way that none of these other previous movies have gotten the gears to turn, and that doesn't happen without these performances, I will say thunderbolts, got me going a little bit in the fact of, like the new avengers, like they were dealing with it, like this is like you know, and again the contention point of like wait doesn doesn't Sam also, isn't he going to also try to make a version of the Avengers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess that's just damning a bit by not knowing who it is. Who the Avengers?
Speaker 1:are, and it's like you had Shang-Chi out there since 2022.
Speaker 2:Right now it just feels like Sam is in his own Avengers. It's Sam and-.
Speaker 1:And Joaquin Torres. Yeah, sam and Joaquin, that's it. And Joaquin Torres.
Speaker 2:And Joaquin. That's it. We have no clue who like. Yeah, sure, the Thunderbolts are quote-unquote butting heads with the Avengers, but we don't know who the Avengers are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they got to figure that out very quickly, because even from the set chairs, like who is it going to be? Because Thor's probably going to come back for Loki, because I think what's going to happen is Doom's going to realize I need to kill Loki and Doom's going to realize I need to kill Loki. Doom's going to be like I have to go kill a god to become a god, so I'm going to go after him. And we said that early, early on, I think, once we knew this flipped. I think we always had that thought that Kang was going to go try to kill Loki to try to gain control back of the multiverse. But then we realized once it switched to Doom also that's probably the best emotional point right now from the characters is probably Loki and Thor. Like that gets Chris Hemsworth right back into the fold, because Loki's going to be there.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:I think, I truly think, that Brand New Day, being right before Secret Wars, is going to find a way to get Hulk back up to like everyone's good graces, like Savage Hulk. I don't know how you do it, but you got to figure out a way to do it. You have an Avengers team that Sam can lead. You just got to put them together. You just got to see them together. There's no reason why we can't have Sam Joaquin Shang-Chi, sam Joaquin Shang-Chi, she-hulk, captain Marvel I'm trying to think of characters that we haven't seen before, like on a team before. You probably get Ant-Man, which you showed what I just said, that's kind of your Avengers right there.
Speaker 1:At least it's a team Not crazy formidable, but obviously the new Avengers come with sentry bag to them. So you're like this is good, but also we can't use them. So I guarantee you that's going to be applied out of this movie. It's like, hey, we have the single most powerful character right here, but we just can't use them. We got to find and figure out a way to use them, because this guy from this other universe is turning into a god and that's a big problem.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, I don't know man, I, man, I, I don't know. I really like this film, like I really really really like this film. I still think thunderbolts got for me. Personally, thunderbolts got it done a little bit more. I it's again. It's one of those things where it's like you can't put it a finger on it, like thunderbolts to your point, scratched and itched for me.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that, that movie is like you know what that movie is like. You know what a movie is like made like it's made for the general audience, but you think it's made for you, like the thunderbolts was made for me no, yeah, I think I mean that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they're both really, really great. I think they're both more than deserving of kind of like being that upper echelon of mcu movies. But yeah, this movie, yeah, it gave me that and invoked that feeling that I really haven't felt since Guardians of the Galaxy, which is incredibly high praise for a movie like this. So I mean, that's it, that's it for us. We're kind of we're in our, I guess, like descending altitude from this crazy summer, so things are going to open up quite a bit. So that's going to do it for us this week. Descending altitude from this crazy summer, so things are going to open up quite a bit. So that's going to do it for us this week. You can follow us on Twitter at ProjectZionF underscore pod. You can follow us on Facebook. You can follow us on Instagram. That's the Project.
Speaker 1:Infinite pod.
Speaker 2:Thanks. You can follow us on YouTube and TikTok at the Project Infinite podcast Next week.
Speaker 1:I don't know, we don't know for sure, we'll have to figure it out. It could be an Avengers Doomsday thing, it could be a Star Wars thing, it could be a DC thing, it could be a movie review of some kind.
Speaker 2:It could be a game, something. The calendar opened up a little bit for a little while here, which is nice. We'll think of something, we'll figure something out.
Speaker 1:So for me, from the here's, the thing, From the Hmm, is Moon Knight going to be in the new?
Speaker 2:Avengers? No, no, he's not. We're lucky. We're going to get anything from him ever again.
Speaker 1:Insane it had Oscar Isaac right there, like willing to do a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:And the Ben Grimm of the podcast, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic. We love Ben Grimm, his little beard he got a beard. Yeah, he did get a beard A rock beard he did get a rock beard. He had a lot of subplot with Natasha Lyonne, who's not Alicia.
Speaker 1:Masters, she's a woman named Rebecca Sure. I can't remember.
Speaker 2:We will see you next week for something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Until then, goodbye Peace.
