The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
159 - Ranking the Infinity Saga: From Iron Man to Endgame
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After 30-some-odd movies, we have finally decided to formally rank the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We throw our personal feelings and lists aside to concoct the DEFINITIVE MCU Movie rankings for the Podcast. For this episode, we ran through the Infinity Saga so look forward to part 2 next week. From the revolutionary impact of 2008's Iron Man to the unprecedented spectacle of Endgame, we meticulously analyze what makes each Marvel entry special - or where they fall short. Is Captain America: Winter Soldier's political thriller approach superior to Guardians of the Galaxy's cosmic comedy? Does Black Panther's cultural significance elevate it above the original Avengers? We debate the iconic moments, standout performances, and narrative innovations that transformed superhero films from popcorn entertainment into legitimate cultural phenomena. Before that, we tackle some light news items surrounding the various video game film adaptations coming our way in the next year or so. Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:15 Amy Adams & Aaron Pierre Added to Star Wars: Starfighter
07:33 This Elden Ring Movie is Interesting!
13:25 Peacemaker Season 2 Quick Thoughts
16:30 The DEFINITIVE Project Infinite MCU Movie Rankings – The Infinity Saga
01:04:45 Signing Off!
Topic for Next Week: MCU Movie Rankings Part 2 – The Multiverse Saga
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Speaker 2:Hey everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom, from movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We got your covered. I'm Rob. I'm here, as always, with court in court. This is an episode that is 17 years in the making.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the MCU has been running for almost 17 years.
Speaker 2:Oh no, it's been.
Speaker 1:I've been longer than 17 years now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna dive into the MCU and we are going to make our definitive rankings of all these MCU movies from from best to worst. This is, this is the list. Yes.
Speaker 1:You can follow this list on letterboxd. Oh, I will have it on my letterboxd for now, so you can go to c cummings 22 he's self-promoting. Yeah, and that's going to be my letterbox, that's fine, and then I will make us a channel letterboxed, okay, and then we will do certain lists, certain things like that, so you can follow that way too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll have some fun that way. Yeah, yeah, this is we need to have like our own individual list, but I thought it'd be fun to just kind of get together and kind of debate, discuss and come up with a consensus how we feel about these movies that have been going on since 2008.
Speaker 1:Insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're just going to basically go in release order and go from Iron man all the way to Fantastic Four. We're not including the TV shows or anything like that. That'll be a separate list at a separate time. So we're just going to do the movies and, like I said, said it's the definitive list. So if you don't agree, that's tough. Yeah, you just. You're just wrong.
Speaker 1:Ours is objectively correct, right kevin feige hired us to make this list. Yes, yeah, we're, yeah, so he's gonna hate where I put ant-man quantumania on this list I can't wait to get to some of these other ones because it's gonna get.
Speaker 2:it's gonna get heated this is gonna but before that we do have a little bit of news. So D23 happened. Not a lot came out of D23. There was a lot of Secret of Avengers things, but nothing really crazy. They did round out the cast for Star Wars Starfighter.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think they're really excited for that movie and they really think that movie's going to perform, and I think what they're going to do is build. I think they had another plan for what the post Skywalker era was going to be and I think they got lucky by signing Ryan Gosling. They were like wait, can we just build the rest of the new franchise around him? And the answer might be yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is the Ryan Gosling led Star Wars Starfighter movie, directed by Sean Levy, opposite Deadpool and Wolverine. Fame and the cast and Cheever by the dozen too yeah. And the cast got rounded out. So we have added, along with ryan gosling and mia goth and others. We've added amy adams and aaron pierre were probably the two biggest names that were kind of added to this cast. We don't know what the roles are going to be or anything like that, but they're two relatively big names.
Speaker 2:I mean aaron pierre is on the ascent, certainly. Yeah gonna be the leading man lantern show for dc, and amy adams has been around for quite a while now, floating between I would say that B and A tier status when she was at the height of her career.
Speaker 1:She was as A-list as A-list can get 2016 when Arrival came out. That's, truthfully, when she was untouchable as an actress so.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to see her in the Star Wars universe. I'm excited to see everybody. I'm very keen on Aaron Pierre. I don't know why he feels like he fits into this, into this realm. I wonder if they haven't placed some smarmy imperial officer with matt smith. That's what I was thinking that was gonna happen. I can see a realm where aaron pierre plays, not a sith, but he plays somebody that has, like a battle with the force, because I really want him to be a force user as well, too. Like a really cool character.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wonder how much that's gonna be a factor in this movie yeah like the jedi's star wars, like force stuff not that this has anything to do with it right now, but I'm calling it right now because of his love for it. David corn sweat's gonna play a main jedi at some point in his career because he said what's more important?
Speaker 2:probably get him for that simon kinberg thing, the trilogy that he's working on, and it'll be like after the skywalker I think they said that like that's gonna be officially episode 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just first kinberg movie yeah, you just get david corn sweat to do round about the same thing I would. I mean, it depends like I don't know how much stuff he's gonna be doing for dc but think he's going to do a lot, but he'll still have a little bit of time and I also think David Cornswet's a pretty talented actor for his.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:So I hope he gets the real cinema work as well too. So I hope he has a nice little balance, but I am looking forward to this movie, me too. Claudio Miranda, who shot Top Gun Maverick, is going to be the cinematographer on this movie, so that's a win. I don't think they have anybody for the composer yet. I don't think so yet, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think so. No, the writer has me the slightest bit concerned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the writer from what's that Netflix movie, the Adam Project?
Speaker 1:Which was good. Yeah, we both liked the Adam Project. I mean, it was a Sean Levy film as well too, but his other work I'm just the slightest bit concerned about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, screenwriting obviously is very important, but at the end of the day, the screenwriter also reports to the director, Right? So I mean they have a working relationship. So it's definitely alarming, but it's not the worst thing in the world. It's been how long since we've gotten a Star Wars movie? It's 2019.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a long time. Yeah, so obviously the last piece is Eva Mendes is going to play Ryan Gosling's wife as she does in real life. Also plays Ryan Gosling's wife, or should I say Ryan Gosling plays her husband in real life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that's good. Like I said, I'm looking forward to this thing. I think when they announced it it was a really good signal of you know, we've talked before like what we want out of Star Wars movies and like to get away from like all the force stuff. Just do like a romp Right.
Speaker 1:Like a romp, like a rom, like a you know, and that's what this kind of is going to be. Yeah, I, I think you just got to capture some emotion, some heart. I think I'm curious of when this is going to take place. I'm really, really hoping this takes that it takes place after rise of skywalker. I'm a few years. I'm so hoping this takes place after the rise of skywalker because then you can really dip into some lore. Um, you can make some new lore, which is super important and like, if this is the, if you have these sets of movies, because I think this movie is going to be successful, and then you get whatever the kinberg movies are going to be, because that's going to be 10, 11, 12 yeah, you get an actor like david corn sweat to be the leader of a movie like that. You might really like the star wars franchise might be back on the up and up, because those are like guaranteed billion dollar movies when those come out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I mean, star Wars is the most recognizable brand in the world. So if they can have a nice, you know and they got Ryan Gosling I think he fits perfectly into this kind of sect of Star Wars too, because he can play both.
Speaker 1:It's funny, he can play both Han and Luke, if that makes sense. Like he teeters a line between the two of them, which I think is really important.
Speaker 2:Plus, he's got a movie coming out that a lot of people are excited for, Project Hail Mary. So he's very much still one of the A-listers that we have going. And then the only other news I got is a couple of video game adaptation things. The Elden Ring thing is out of control.
Speaker 1:I mean it's funny because if you would have told me a24 is producing an elden ring movie 10 years ago, but like with the knowledge of where elden ring went as a franchise, how big they got, I'd be like a24 can't a afford to do that. And they do that. And then the shinerts made everything ever all at once and I was or the daniels and I was like, oh yeah, they can. Yeah, that movie is probably going to be one of the craziest films you have ever seen, yeah, so Alex Garland I love Alex Garland.
Speaker 2:Alex Garland. Apparently this feels like a passion project. He apparently wrote a 160-page draft and 40 pages of images. Tell them what A24 said. They said F yeah expletive. He flew to Japan to pitch it to From Software director and creator Hidetaka Mizuyaki and pretty much sealed the deal from there. I mean it's Elden Ring's an interesting game in the sense that obviously it's a From Software Souls game. But the world this felt, now that I'm here, now that this movie is being made, everything about the development of that game makes total sense. They From Software went to George RR Martin whole sense.
Speaker 2:They from software went to george rr martin of game of thrones fame, to create the war and world for elden ring the game.
Speaker 1:So I mean you have one of the premier world building authors yes, ever and alex outside of tolkien like george rr martin is a world building master and alex garland's true power is his, the mirror that he puts to the human race. I think that's his true power as a director. I mean, you see it in Ex Machina, you see it in Devs, the television show he made with Nick Offerman, which was one of the best shows of the 2020s. You see it in Civil War, like this mirror that he puts up to you know kind of reality itself and to the human nature itself, and I'm really excited to see him take this into a fantastical realm, much like he did with Annihilation.
Speaker 2:I think this is going to be really incredible. Yes, there's a chance to be a fantasy. This has a chance to be a real fantasy epic.
Speaker 1:Who did he cast the main character from Civil War. He already cast as the main character in this movie. Yeah, callie Spaney. Callie Spaney is going to be the main character of this, which is going to be awesome. Any other actors you want to see in a film like this?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I couldn't even tell you. There's so many things in this game. I'm just curious. I'm curious to know, because in the Souls game the whole thing is the boss fights are always these big spectacle events, and there's so many of them in the.
Speaker 2:Souls games, so obviously they're going to have to nail it down. But for Elden Ring I'm thinking of boss fights Melania would obviously have to be in and, honestly, the person I would think of to play Melania, the blade of whatever she's called would be an Angelina Jolie type. Okay, and I feel like Angelina Jolie is at this point where she could potentially do something like this.
Speaker 1:If it's pitched the right way I mean a sublet. And somebody that's already worked with Alex Garland would be Natalie Portman, sure For that same logic. Oh yeah, and obviously she got super fit to play the Mighty Thor as well too. I really see somebody like Paul Mescal fitting into a world like this as well, too, and, using that same logic, I can also see somebody like aaron pierre fitting into this like a knight for something like this. I could see somebody like him fitting into this. The actor that was in the last aliens movie I can't remember his name the one that played the ai in the last movie he oh, what am I saying? Tramell tillman would be just an absolute. I'm at the point where you put trameont.
Speaker 2:Hill in anything. Yeah, I mean, I'm just super curious. You know they're adapting a Souls game to a pretty high-profile movie, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1:This seems like it's going to be like A24 might just let this, because they also know A24 knows its own power. To put the A24 logo in front of something means something now, so like especially.
Speaker 2:I mean they're also working with um kojima on the death right. So how I think he's doing. I think he's just directing, correct he's pulling a james gun.
Speaker 1:He's like I'll find, I'll do it myself, which is kind of cool. I imagine norman and rena's full yeah, what's her name? Is also probably going to be in it. Why can't I remember her name? That was in Mission Impossible, not Mission Impossible. Yes, that was in Mission Impossible and that was in the last Bond movie, the last two Bond movies.
Speaker 2:And then Gears of War is ramping up.
Speaker 1:The.
Speaker 2:Netflix greenlit Gears of War film will be directed by David Leitch, which is great.
Speaker 2:Yes, anything David Leitch, which is great, yes anything David Leitch does is probably going to be incredible, and written by John Spates, who helped write Dune. Very good, both good things. David Leitch has kind of pitched this as a sci-fi war movie, which makes sense because it's Gears of War, and I said to you earlier that the biggest layup of all time is you just get Dave Bautista in this, who has been banging around for years to try and get a Gears of War movie made and he has quite a bit of clout in Hollywood now.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh yes, he does.
Speaker 2:So I would imagine he would be the first call Correct For a Gears of War movie, which could be pretty cool. You know, if the production value is high and they kind of lean into like the grittiness and you know all that stuff, get the creature designs right. I think that could be great. And I'm very excited for these video game adaptations that are coming in the next handful of years, right Between Fallout Season 2, between Zack Krieger's Resident Evil movie to the last of the Season 3. It's just good things all around. So that's really all I have as far as news goes. It's pretty, pretty light peacemakers out now. Yeah, we talked about that for a couple minutes.
Speaker 1:Two minute drill. Since the fall season's about to start, two minute drill for us for for peacemaker. Let's put a timer for two minutes. Starting right, starting right, right now. Um, really quick. I mean spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. I actually quite like the way that they just got him into the dcu you know how they got him into the dcu.
Speaker 1:They just put him in the dcu, they just retconned it. They just retconned it where the events that happened at the end of season one. They just took all the DCEU characters out and put the DCU heroes in, which is great.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1:It's such a good like, because I thought that what they were going to do is like it's just another universe. No, don don't explain it. Yeah, don't explain it. Don't do nothing, just just do the. Just do it. Yes, yes, I like it, it's it's, it's quick, it's like, don't over complicate anything, because he might have had it more. Because even if he tried to make the dcu uh, you stuff technically canon by putting it in another universe, that opens a whole another can of worms with a fan base. You do not want to do that with no no just erase it.
Speaker 1:Yep, see you later. You later, you're cooked, you're gone. So, yes, he's just in the DCU now, as is bought about in Superman. What's his name? Tim Meadows was probably the best addition you could have asked for in this show and obviously Frank Grillo is great as Rick Flagg Sr. I know he's going to have more of like a Nick Fury-ish role, like a Maria Hill-ish role, even maybe in the DCU, because obviously they're friends, they've worked together before, so I think he quite likes him. So, no, the show's going really well. John Cena just keeps getting better and better as an actor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's really. He's delivered with this character in ways that I don't think anyone really expected.
Speaker 1:And it's great because, like it also, like obviously some very disgusting things happen in the first episode. So like he immediately tells you no, this is as R rated, as R rated gets. I just want to like, let you guys know, like this is the DCU, like it's, like I'm letting the directors take the tone, like that's, that's how it's going to go. Lanterns is going to be like True Detective. Supergirl is going to be like a sci-fi, star Trek epic Superman. Obviously we saw as a hopeful everyman piece that's how it's going to go, but they're all going to seamlessly interact and they've done a good job. That was our two-minute drill on Peacemaker Season 2.
Speaker 2:Off to a good start, really want to see what they do with the universe. The show's great, continues to be great and you know James Gunn has teased these last three episodes in the season of being like insane, which he never does, by the way.
Speaker 1:No, he did it for the Flash. He did Well. He took the studio. See everybody relax.
Speaker 2:Everyone did it for the Flash yes, because everybody people were coming out of the book.
Speaker 1:Tom Cruise said I've never I've been in some cinema. I just made Top Gun Maverick.
Speaker 2:Stephen King said it was the best movie he's ever seen.
Speaker 1:Everybody was lying, everybody was paid to say those things. That was a weird time.
Speaker 2:Anyway, marvel, yes, marvel MCU, yeah. So I kind of talked up top of what we're going to do here. We're just going to run through these and rank them and debate and discuss and come to a consensus on how we feel about this 30-some-odd film universe.
Speaker 1:You know what we needed. We needed somebody that's a true animosity mongerer, that's like a third person for this, because we're too kind to each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to be like ah, yeah, you got it.
Speaker 1:But we need somebody that's truthfully like Stephen A Smith yelling at 10 o'clock in the morning on ESPN. That is one of the worst decisions I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, so we're just going to start off top Marvel Cinematic Universe, phase 1. It's 2008. May 2, 2008. Barack Obama's president, it's a better case.
Speaker 1:Barack Obama's president, gas is like $1.59. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So Iron man comes out. We did an episode on Iron man. You mean the guy that made Elf did Iron man. I'm not watching that. We did a film retrospective on Iron man starring Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker 1:You mean Robert Downey Jr. I'm not watching a movie with that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, starring Robert Downey Jr, directed by Jon Favreau. It's the first one, and I mean obviously it's number one on this list for right now, Wow awesome number one on this list for right now wow, awesome. The best marvel movie, no, but iron man's great.
Speaker 2:I mean, we, we like we did, we did a whole episode on iron man, you know, and it's still, it's one of those movies. It's it's a legacy movie, but also it's just a good movie in its own right, like I think it just really holds up. Even to this day I can go back and watch iron man and really enjoy it. So we'll see. We'll see how, how well iron man does. Yes, as we get into the 2025-ness of this Coming out a month after Iron man, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So for all those people that are like I'm sick of Marvel doing a hundred things a year, they were doing it in 2008. Yeah, they did these two movies back then. Wow, two movies in one year, Two movies in one year. They did the Louis Leterrier of. Now you See Me fame.
Speaker 1:Oh fair enough.
Speaker 2:And Fast X, Maybe our favorite movie on this channel. We do like Fast X Starring Edward Norton, famously to be replaced by Mark Ruffalo a little bit later. You and I both quite like this movie.
Speaker 1:I think it was more of like I didn't realize that I appreciated things out of this movie that I didn't realize at the time. Yeah, it's not better than Iron man. No, it's the second movie. It's the worst movie in the MCU. Now it's the worst movie.
Speaker 2:I do quite like Ed Norton's performance. He brings a lot of darkness. Yes, he really has. You can really feel that battle.
Speaker 1:He feels like comic Bruce Banner, like new age comic Bruce Banner, where he's kind of like. He's kind like fringy, like he's like on the outskirts, like very on the run-ish versus like. I feel like MCU Bruce Banner is very accepted and very like loved, like I don't care what they did in like Age of Ultron. He's still like a loving like. Yeah, Edward Norton was like an outcast.
Speaker 2:Kind of an asshole. Yes, yes, yeah, much Much like Edward Norton in real life, allegedly. You know, we also get William Hurt obviously comes onto the screen as Thunderbolt Ross, we get Liv Tyler, who who's the ex-girlfriend of Bruce Banner?
Speaker 1:says Captain America 4.
Speaker 2:Who would show up 16 years later, Insane, In Captain America 4. But yeah, I mean, it's not better than Iron man, which is fine. Iron man 2. Iron man 2, once again directed by Jon Favreau, Robert Downey Jr returns. We get Mickey Rourke. We get Next time baby. We get, yeah, Taron Towers. That's right. Taron Towers was the first Iron man who's been replaced.
Speaker 1:Don Cheadle stepped in as War Machine. Great performance as War Machine. He's much more believable as a military man. Yes, that's got a soft spot for his best friend.
Speaker 2:We get the introduction of Scarlett Johansson, natasha Romanoff. We get a lot of Fury. This is a lot of Avengers set up.
Speaker 1:Yes, which hinders the movie a bit. A little bit, but I do quite like. And again, the last two Iron man movies suffered from the studio being like we can't do full send dark stuff. The Thunderbolts hasn't come out yet, we can't do stuff like that. So that's where I'm torn on this film, because technically this film is pretty sound too Like. This is a good-looking film.
Speaker 1:Windlash is an okay villain, yeah he's like the first of like the villains that are like oh no, you're kind of just there to die, aren't you? Yeah, Mickey Rourke does the best of what he got. Yeah, yeah, mickey Rourke's still good. I really would have wished they dove more into the rivalry aspect between the two of them, like the true, like you're the heir apparent and I should be the apparent heir, like I wish they would have pulled on that even more. I mean Sam Rockwell is great.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's phenomenal. I want more of him in the MCU.
Speaker 2:I can't believe he has never come back.
Speaker 1:Right, he should have three again. We'll get to iron man three, yes, which it's. Iron man three might be the most overrated, underrated movie in the mcu, and I'll elaborate so it's better than the incredible this movie's better than incredible yeah but it's not by much.
Speaker 1:But I think downey is so good. It's it's because he's like even those, he has these in-between moments I like to call them in-between moments that actors have where like they're just ambient in the moment, and like when he's looking at himself in the mirror before the party and the palladium's infecting him and he's sitting there I'm like, wow, I feel you, man, I feel this. Yeah, I mean it's the Monaco stuff is really good. The Monaco stuff is great.
Speaker 2:The stuff on the racetrack is great.
Speaker 1:Before Whiplash gets there, the War Machine and Iron man duo fight against the drones is really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean some of these when it comes down to it, when we're kind of, you know, especially when we get to the lower tier of stuff it's going to come down to, yeah, but this one person was just so incredible, and Downey does so much legwork in these Iron man movies to make them better than maybe they would have been with another actor, so I mean it's better than Incredible Hulk. So we got Iron man, iron man 2, and then Incredible Hulk. So far Thor. Thor, directed by Kenneth Branagh, marvel's first foray into Shakespeare. Just kidding.
Speaker 1:Well, it kind of was. It was like they and I think that was intentional from Kenneth Branagh. Look, I feel like this movie came out in a time where, like they didn't realize you can do comic books. Yet do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:like they didn't realize you're just allowed to do a comic book against the glass ceiling right, but they were a little little too afraid, yeah which the afraidness turned into this being like a watching, like a play, like that's kind of how this, how this goes a little bit yeah, this is the hemsworth is solid, he's fine, it's the worst that he is in any of these movies, sure, but what makes up for it is, tom Hiddleston is so good. Hiddleston's incredible and Anthony Hopkins does his best.
Speaker 1:With what he's got. It's the most subdued he'd been, but I still like him as Odin. Yeah, bad villain Well, I'm talking well right, I mean the bad fake villain. Oh yeah, with Laufey, yeah, it's the worst one. It's probably a little, a little worse than the incredible Hulk Cause. I'm trying to find the redeeming qualities. This movie looks pretty, it's it's it's it looks pretty solid. Thor one does I just, I just there's no, there's no like. I want you to give me the big moment from Thor 1. Give me the like, him getting his powers back. But is it better than, you know, the Hulk smash and then he's fighting the Abomination? Is it better than the two scenes in Iron man 2?
Speaker 2:Is it better than the entirety of Iron man 1? It would be between. I mean, it's either in front of or behind Incredible Hulk. I think it's just a little bit no-transcript. I quite like him explaining the space stuff to. Jane, that's a nice little, I guess, softer scene.
Speaker 1:Hiddleston's really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, the ending with Loki and Odin is amazing, I me.
Speaker 1:I just think it doesn't have the scene to put it over the top with the main character.
Speaker 2:I think that's what it's missing, Like the acting scene, where it's like I feel for him when he's trying to pick up Mjolnir and he can't.
Speaker 1:Forget the introduction of Hawkeye. I always forget that. That's where he starts. All right, it's the worst one right now. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's fine. I wish we had like, if we were like a true YouTube channel. It would be like every single time we got into a new one, it would just like flash the theme, the beginning of the theme of the thing before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we get Captain America the First Avenger, directed by Joe Johnson of Jurassic Park 3. Fame of the Rocketeer. Fame Wow, he directed fame of the Rocketeer. Fame wow, he directed Honey, I Shrunk the Kids 1989. So pretty, pretty prolific. We're gonna like. I want to make a point to like do the directors too, because you're like whoa, yes first director, like it's gonna when we get to Thor the Dark World, the good one too. Yep of that cast America first Avengers. So obviously Chris Evans is incredible.
Speaker 1:He's so good. He goes right against the grain of being Johnny Storm for that time, and it's a swing by the studio. The studio took two major swings. I mean, they took three. Chris Hemsworth was a relatively unknown at that point. Chris Evans was pigeonholed by being Johnny Storm. So how are you going to get a character that is literally?
Speaker 2:180? Also kind of being pigeonholed as like rom-com teen drama Right, he can't be serious.
Speaker 1:And be serious, yeah, and then he was serious then he was, then he was captain america and then downy jr for all his. You know everything you went through before. It's the second best movie. It's right behind iron, I would agree. Great villain. I want more of hugo weaving somehow. Wish, I wish that you get leaving into into like the main, like back into the mcu, as like against sam wilson, and then they do the masters of evil yeah, so he's, he's.
Speaker 2:I mean he's really good. He's a great, great villain. Sebastian Stan's a good yeah accomplice. He's obviously not in the movie. Spoiler alert he's not in the movie that long.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? He dies? That's how we should do this. He dies.
Speaker 2:Haley Atwell is great, you feel, tommy Lee Jones, we've talked about Channel's favorite, tommy Lee Jones.
Speaker 2:Incredible. It's a Tommy Lee Jones classic and Chris Evans is really good. He plays you know, I think, what's cool about how he plays Captain America is you never? It's so important that that movie starts and is as lengthy with him as Small City Rogers, because that carries his mannerisms and his attitude carries through from when he transforms, which is super important to the character. His personality doesn't change when his body changes, maintains all that goodness of Steve Rogers, love the period piece.
Speaker 1:It's right behind Iron man.
Speaker 2:Out of these movies so far, it's probably got the best ending.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I quite like the ending of this movie because Iron man 1's ending does fall into it. Starts the trap of the sky beams.
Speaker 2:Big fight with Jeff Rogers. But yeah, I think that's fair. I think Iron Man's maybe a bit better made.
Speaker 1:First Avenger I love the period aspects though. Yes, do more period pieces. Marvel, they still gotta do that. Isaiah Bradley one-shot, hour-long special on Disney+, that would go so insane. Cast a younger actor, that would be awesome. The Avengers what do all these movies lead to?
Speaker 2:The Avengers they did it, joss Whedon, who directed this movie. I mean this going to be a conversation that we have about Infinity War later on a bigger scale, but this is impossible.
Speaker 1:the fact that this movie is incredible and it performed too, and it's the backbone of this universe up until that point, and then after that, up until you can say this about Iron man obviously, if Iron man doesn't work, the MCU doesn't work.
Speaker 2:but the MCU as a work, but the MCU as a construct, as a connected, shared universe, does not work if the Avengers does not work.
Speaker 1:And it did. It's great. It's right under Iron man, I think, really Iron.
Speaker 2:Man 1's good. I was curious if this was going to. I was wondering if this was going to happen the other way around. I I was wondering if this was going to happen the other way around. I thought I was going to end up fighting for Iron man a little bit harder as this went on. But, man, you think Iron man 1 is better than the Avengers? I do.
Speaker 1:I do. I think it's Iron man. 1. From a cohesion standpoint you think? I don't even think it's necessarily a cohesion standpoint. Cohesion standpoint, you think I don't even think it's necessarily a cohesion standpoint? It's just downy singular performance in iron man.
Speaker 2:One is so absolutely electric, wow I'm trying to, yeah, I mean, I mean one thing avengers, a lot happens and a lot of like, just like it's a lot of like cop switching going on in the first Avengers movie. I mean, yeah, we're talking about one and two here. We're not talking about, oh, is this the worst one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can live with Avengers because I'm trying to think of reasons why Iron Man's better and I'm starting to lose it again.
Speaker 2:It's tough, right, because Avengers gives you Downey doing another. Just incredible. He's amazing. He dominates a lot of the movie.
Speaker 1:Do we have to put Avengers lower because of Captain America's suit? Is that the only reason why it's two Fair point.
Speaker 2:Fair gain. I think everyone's just better from when they started, maybe except Chris Evans. I just don't think he gets a ton to do. He's like a caricature of himself. We start planting the seeds. A little bit of him and Tony Kind of like, just kind of coming to we get Ruffalo.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's the first Ruffalo performance and he's really good. He captures a little he captures. It's the best. In my opinion, he'd been as Bruce Banner.
Speaker 2:Even he'd been as Bruce Banner, even better than Age of Ultron, which is funny to say. He captures the torturedness yes, like that little thing he gives when he talks about, like shooting himself and then Hulk, spit the bullet out, you're like oof.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the guy he can't leave.
Speaker 2:It's the most like, yeah, it's like the most reserved he is. Hemsworth is good.
Speaker 1:I think he's better than Thor. 1. He gets a little more obviously Tom Hiddleston is great.
Speaker 2:I mean the scene with him and Tony in Avengers Hours. See, I feel like, I feel like this is better than I love Iron man yeah but you're ahead of it. The Avengers, I think yeah and again, like it has to get bonus points for just being yes, I mean, I guess the only knock against it is is you know, I mean I don't think Jeremy Renner gets a ton to do. No, hawkeye and Black Widow don't really get a ton, but it is what it is. Iron man 3. Shane Black directed this.
Speaker 1:See, this movie has a lot of style, but this is the first Disney movie. This was the first MCU Disney movie and you can feel it. You can feel it. I mean, obviously, there's the controversy that I forget what her name was. She was supposed to be the main villain of this film and then they switched her out with Guy Pearce because they were like we're not going to sell enough toys. Bad on you, marvel, shame on you. We're not going to sell enough toys if a woman's the villain, so we can't do that. Shame on you. Keep a running track of how many women villains are on these movies. They not many. They are afraid. They were afraid to go full. Send into the extremist stuff like it's like the iron man extremist run from the comics. That's a really great.
Speaker 1:That's a really great story two really good iron man ideas and don't do anything with them iron man 2 should have fully committed to demon in the Bottle, but they danced around it and gave him a sickness instead. You shouldn't have done it. Make him an alcoholic, do full send and have him overcome. That's how it should have went. Have Iron man in a freaking meeting a few movies later you know what I mean. That would mean something. I'm a little torn. Iron Patri patriot happens in this movie, yeah, but that ending is fun.
Speaker 2:I had a lot of fun with that. Ending the airplane sequence is great really good stuff flying.
Speaker 1:Well, he's not flying, he's piloting the iron man suit best score out of any of the iron man movies too. The new score that they built for that movie was really good, it's just I don't know, I think it don't know.
Speaker 2:I think it's better than Incredible Hulk.
Speaker 1:It's better than Iron man 2. That's where it has to fall. It's either Iron man 2 or Iron man 3 is better. That's where it has to fall.
Speaker 2:That Mandarin stuff is it's bad, it's real bad.
Speaker 1:But the stylization of this movie. That's why I come back to it. I'm not super thrilled with the spy bit and I understand what they were trying to do, like if you're nothing without the suit, you shouldn't have it. But not that way. He's Iron man.
Speaker 2:I think I like Iron man 2 a little bit better than Iron man 3. We're going to put it up. Is that what we're going to do? Yep.
Speaker 1:You're saved. Iron man 2. The last five movies get annihilated. No, not there Will Be Blood. That's not in this list. I need Thor 2. There Will Be Blood would be number 1A times a billion.
Speaker 2:As a Marvel movie.
Speaker 1:Yes, can we just run right through Thor the Dark World?
Speaker 2:Directed by the great Alan Taylor.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's the worst one Next.
Speaker 2:It's not good, it's tough.
Speaker 1:Next it's tough, captain America, winter Soldier oh boy, again, we don't even need to go too much.
Speaker 2:It's the best one.
Speaker 1:The Russos are here. We don't even need to go too much. It's the best one. The Russos are here. Yep, what do you mean? The guys from? I'm just acting as the guy that's learning these are coming out, and who's what do you mean? The guys that did Arrested Development?
Speaker 2:I don't want to watch that. The Russos have showed up and they gave us a great movie.
Speaker 1:It's the best one.
Speaker 2:It's really good. It's the best one. It action a great. We're about to have some debate this is where it's gonna get.
Speaker 1:This is where marvel enters just a crazy era here?
Speaker 2:this is not. We might start rapid firing, which is outstanding.
Speaker 1:This is where me and you are gonna really have to sit down and talk, because the next movie up is guardians of the galaxy.
Speaker 2:This is this is, I call guardians of galaxy, marvel's heat check movie there's no way this works right and then it worked the best to they get James Gunn about doing this movie about. You mean the guy that directed Scooby-Doo. I don't want to watch that People who have never heard of any of these people, they get a great cast.
Speaker 1:This movie is electric, it's.
Speaker 2:Marvel's first space thing, it's electric, it's dynamic. It's the introduction of Thanos. Well, avengers, technically is the introduction. This is the introduction of Josh Brolin as Thanos.
Speaker 1:It's the best Batista was in any of these movies. He's amazing. It's the best. Three is the best. That Star-Lord, that Chris Pratt had been Love Nebula's performance here as well too, and she even gets better and better as time goes on.
Speaker 2:Everyone is outstanding in this movie Michael Rooker is as amazing as Yondu.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go purely based off the ideology of when you're going into a movie theater and feel that's what you want to feel, vibes.
Speaker 2:I'm a big vibes guy. It's one. It's the best Marvel movie. I've held on to this idea that the Winter Soldier is the best Marvel movie, but I can't erase out of my mind when I walked out of Guardians the first time, thinking it was the best movie I've ever seen it's like the film that I'll tell my kids.
Speaker 1:Like, on my wall at my place I have the Guardians of the Galaxy 1 vinyl on the wall. Like it is, it's got the feel, it's got the rhythm from jump, yes, from the opening seconds, the opening second, and it. From the opening seconds, the opening second, and it's emotional.
Speaker 2:Those opening seconds are emotional, they're emotional. And then you segue that right into the Morag, the heist when he's dancing, and you're in from there. And then that movie. We could sit here for an hour talking about scenes in this movie. You know how. We were just talking about Thor, we were talking about what's the moment. We could do that, but in reverse, regarding the galaxy.
Speaker 1:What's not the moment.
Speaker 2:There's so many, there's so many moments in this movie that the prison stuff is outstanding.
Speaker 1:Man, when their score goes for the first time when they're in the prison, I'm like what am I feeling right now? The nowhere stuff is outstanding. Man, when their score goes for the first time when they're in the prison, I'm like what am I feeling right now? The nowhere stuff is great. Yep, the lore in that movie, the lore that they build from that movie.
Speaker 2:That meeting is outstanding, yep, when they all kind of cross paths for the first time on Xandar and you kind of all get a feel for what they can all do and why they make such a good unit, and then even the ending is good, yes, and that's why I think I think winter soldier, comparatively to all these other movie movies they're, it's pretty, it's not too drastically better than any of the other third acts.
Speaker 1:It's just the emotional payoff is better and technically it's solid.
Speaker 2:It has one of the like, most iconic, kind of like endings of any of these. When you know, ronan is like how are you doing this? And he's, like you said it yourself, bitch with the guardians of the galaxy, and the score is like ramping up like that it gives you.
Speaker 2:Then you throw the emotional moment in there with his mom for a second and like it's a really good, it's a really good, it's the best one and it's, I think, yeah now, yeah, now that we're talking to it, yeah, I, like I said, I've held on to this Winter Soldier thing forever, it's the best one.
Speaker 1:It's the best one.
Speaker 2:Age of Ultron. Joss Whedon's back.
Speaker 1:Dang it. Boo. This man Not a great guy. It's worse than Iron man. Is it better than First Avenger, though? Yeah, I think so. You got good bits. Obviously, spader is incredible. Spader is amazing. I love the feel of this movie Not like the Guardians of the Galaxy how it makes you feel. I like the way this movie feels, if that makes sense in a cinematic sense. Technically it's a little bit more sound. Special effects are a little bit better. I think this is better than First Avenger. Yeah, it's not better than Iron man 1. So I think it falls right in between Iron man 1 and First Avenger.
Speaker 2:I think I would agree with that. I think, yeah, spader is amazing. It's got some cool stuff. Hulkbuster's cool Again, everyone's pretty. I think we're finally getting into what makes Captain America great in this franchise. In this movie we get a great intro for Scarlet Witch. I think Elizabeth Olsen the foundation of that tortured, horrible things always happen to this character thing is already fomenting. I like Blank's lady vision.
Speaker 1:Yes, he just kind of shows up and he's just like hello, so they build their team out to 10 Avengers and then they kill one of them, so they're down to 9. But then Sam Wilson replaces him, so they're back up to 10 and War Machine adds yeah, so yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:The other thing is obviously Winter Soldier brought us Falcon, Brought us Anthony Mackie, alright Ant-Man, it's worse than Replace Edgar Wright.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's worse than the first Avenger, but better than Iron man 2.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 1:Paul rudd is great again another villain that you can throw away. Another villain, even though what's his name did a good job. Yeah, he'll be back.
Speaker 2:He'll be back he will, yeah, he'll be back.
Speaker 1:I think the heist, the friend, frenetic heist, energy works yeah, this is when the marvel movies really started to dip into the genres of which these movies took, because like winter soldier was the first dip into that.
Speaker 2:and then, once Ant-Man hits, it's like okay, these movies are a thing, these movies are in a thing I will say I think and I think the subsequent Ant-Man movies will reveal this this movie had a lot of Edgar Wright's fingerprints on it.
Speaker 1:The first time he changes, you can really tell.
Speaker 2:I think the supporting cast is good. I think Angelina Lilley is good. Michael Douglas, I think, is just getting kind of.
Speaker 1:He's better in the second one but he's good in the next and then he's the worst in the third one.
Speaker 2:I don't know what he becomes in the third one. But I would agree that this is worse than I think this is worse than I think this is better than this is like it's funny.
Speaker 1:I think this movie's very comparable to Iron man 2 in a lot of ways. You know what's insane. This has nothing to do with anything we're talking about. I'm an absolute sicko because I'm just remembering the release order of these movies without even looking at an order. That's funny. I have an order I don't have was Captain America Civil War.
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 1:Russos are back. It's the third best one now. This movie's great, it's phenomenal. I mean, in any other universe where the Russos didn't absolutely cook for Winter Soldier and James Gunn never signed on with Marvel, it's the best one.
Speaker 2:This movie's amazing. It is able to somehow walk this line of it's an Avengers sort of movie, but they still are able to root it in a Captain America movie. Yes, it is a.
Speaker 1:Captain America story. It's like how the Blackest Night is a Green Lantern story, but it's really like an entire DC Universe event. It's the same way. Or like Tower of Babel is a Batman story that has all of them. Civil War is a Captain America story. The airport fight man you remember when we were in the theater for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Absurd we were in the theater for that. Yeah, absurd, like absolutely absurd, and there's people just doing powers left and right like this is like a comic book come to life.
Speaker 1:Black pit. Introduction of chadwick boseman as black panther and tom holland the best. Yep, tom holland as spider-man immediately. Just what are we?
Speaker 2:like insane down. He's great yep as the antagonist of this movie, zemo great everything is everything works. This movie works, it just works. It's really good, I think, man that's. You think that winter soldier is better than this?
Speaker 1:yes, I think winter soldier is just a bit tighter because the airport scene is gray. It is a very gray scene. I just think winter soldier is a little bit tighter. I think all the espionage stuff just lifts it a little bit higher. Okay, I think the first, I think the first and I think the second act is. It's funny because you end the second act of this movie after the airport scene. But if you like, rip out the second, like just go, just surely, just like based off those middles, without the big action sequence. I think winter soldier is just a little like man when nick fury gets caught up that first time and it's just on and it won't turn, like that's the thing about that, it doesn't turn off. Winter soldier doesn't know how to turn yes yep again.
Speaker 2:This is yeah, we're parsing, we're nitpicking here because we have to. I think you're right. I think, yeah, I think winter soldier might be just like a smidge better, but civil war is amazing guardians of the galaxy.
Speaker 1:Volume 2 is better than age of ultra whoa whoa you skipped one wait, hold on, I got this oh dr strange, my bad, my bad, my bad my bad ds don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on man. Scott derrickson, it's a scott derrickson it is.
Speaker 1:It was a it's got derrickson.
Speaker 2:Isms are all over it we we keep saying this is one of the most underrated ones.
Speaker 1:I like Dr Shane a lot. I have a nuclear hot take, but I don't know if I'm ready to commit to it. Are you going to put it above Iron man? No, I won't, I'm going to leave it but above Age of Ultron. You think, yes, above Age of Ultron. Wow, I think it's right above, because how good Benedict Cumberbatch is? He's really good, but also Mads Mikkelsen is good as Kaecilius, but also boring.
Speaker 2:This movie has a villain problem.
Speaker 1:But then they make up for the villain problem.
Speaker 2:This movie has a villain problem.
Speaker 1:I think it's above Age of Ultron. All the lore, like the mystical lore it's very cool. It is so cool. I think it's right above Age of Ultron.
Speaker 2:Man, I don't know. I don't know. That's tough. I'm just thinking of like. I'm thinking of Age of Ultron, I'm thinking of Doctor Strange. I'm going to look at Age of Ultron. Cumberbatch is great. It's basically like I'm trying to fill out who's doing what in this movie. I really like the scene with him and the Ancient One in the hospital. That's a really come to Jesus moment.
Speaker 1:When the Ancient One dies and she basically gives the proclamation it's not about you and I'm like, wow, that's how you set up. It's a great character arc it might be one of the best ones in this universe up to that point in a solo movie that's encapsulated in one film yes, I think it's just a little bit better than Iron man with magic, and if I'm going by that logic, it probably belongs right below. Iron.
Speaker 2:Man Okay.
Speaker 1:You know what's right below Doctor Strange but ahead of Age of Ultron Guardians of the Galaxy, vol 2. You said age of ultron, guardians of the galaxy, volume 2. You said what now? Guardians of the galaxy, volume 2 is above age of ultron but below dr strange. I think it fits right in the middle of those two films. I think what hurts guardians 2 because it's not that far off. I think I think they got a little bit indulgent on the comedy.
Speaker 2:I think they got a bit this movie that theme is gonna come up again when we get off that board. That movie is We'll talk about.
Speaker 1:Thor later, but Guardians 2 is probably one of the visually most stunning Marvel movies that we've gotten as well, too, the ego stuff is.
Speaker 2:Kurt Russell's incredible.
Speaker 1:He's just phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Just makes you just One of the most like, hateable villains that this universe has ever produced.
Speaker 1:The only thing about this movie is it meanders a little bit the middle of that movie, meanders in a way that you just don't want. And I understand why they did it, because they want you to feel, but, like you're talking about the impactful feel of what you get out of guardians, one you don't get yeah, it's a guardians one like comes out and it's just, it's just swinging, whereas like this movie comes out swinging and then it kind of pulls back a little bit the opening in this movie is just disgustingly amazing oh, it's incredible, like the framing, like with group, and you're following a group through, like them fighting that monster.
Speaker 2:They really feel like a family. In this movie, which I really like, we get yondu sacrifice partially through it. So you, what are we saying? You're saying this movie is not as good as dr strange, but it's better than age of ultra, because this movie is still good.
Speaker 1:It's still pretty dang good. I'm trying to think if it's better than dr strange. I just think dr strange has a little bit of a again. If you want to use the feel, like I, there was a feeling I had leaving dr strange I really like this movie.
Speaker 2:It's tough. Yeah, it's like naked, they're like. Yeah, they're like it's tough yeah, it's different reasons, but yeah, it's. Yeah, it's tough and I guess at that point it comes down to like personal preference. But I'd like to throw that out because this is an objective list. Yeah, I can, I can live with that. Okay, I can live with that.
Speaker 1:Thor's next ragnarok is next. Yeah, no, spider-man. Oh, homecoming's next. Okay, I put Doctor Strange twice. No, take one off, leave it in. John Watts, I'm going to put, I'm going to bold state claim, because you know how much of a fan I am of Homecoming they do the John Hughes-isms which I really appreciate.
Speaker 1:People say don't be Iron Boy Jr, but he has one of the best scenes he does the comic panel where he's lifting up the two pillars Really one of the best scenes he does the comic panel where he's lifting up the two pillars Really enjoy that. It's above Doctor Strange under Iron man. I really like Homecoming.
Speaker 2:Looking at this list, I think that feels right. Vulture is great, Michael Keaton was like hey, I'm good at magic Vulture's great, obviously, tom Holland is.
Speaker 1:first. He felt like Peter Parker, but he also felt like Spider-Man. He had the best balance, I think, of any of the spider-man before him it's just a.
Speaker 2:It's just a good fun time. Like it's a good fun time, great villain. I like the little like. I like. This movie, out of the three spider-man movies that we've gotten, has the best peter parker spider-man balance as much much as no Way Home wants to pretend it does, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:I think this movie does a really nice job of like, hey, here's what he's going through as Peter Parker, here's what he's going through as Spider-Man. And they feel as unified as, maybe more unified than the other two Spider-Man movies, right when, like, the high school stuff directly ties into the Spider-Man stuff. And we get you know, Downey has this great moment, Obviously the one great moment. You know, if you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it.
Speaker 2:We get you know, and the supporting cast is great. We get the introduction of Zendaya, we get Ned is a great kind of comic relief, best friend type type deal and I just think this movie completely works.
Speaker 1:so I would agree with that what'd you say under iron man right? Yep, under iron man above dr strange. I'm ready for my next big hit, and that's thor ragnarok tiger with cd comes. And it's better than the Avengers.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that. I think this movie is really good.
Speaker 1:It's the first time I'd ever been interested in Thor and you get it from a trailer that hit. This film got me excited in a way, because it felt like a Jack Kirby comic.
Speaker 2:The movie's so good it ruined the next one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did ruin the next one. The Jack Kirby-ms are all over this film.
Speaker 2:You can tell they were the best time oh by far until yeah, until we get to the other one.
Speaker 1:It feels different, it feels fresh, it feels way more fresh. It feels more fun like completely works. A lot of guardians isms in this as well too, but the best parts of the guardian isms. I really appreciate this film. The needle drops are great. Yeah, needle drops are great like these and you talk about the moments. The buddy cop duo between him and ruffalo is also incredible.
Speaker 2:But this is where we also start to lose the the bruce bannerification of, yeah, of the character he kind of just he starts becoming mark ruffalo and that will continue, right. But I would agree with this. I think ragnarok's always been a really high mark for me and, like I said, this movie worked so well that it hurts the next one.
Speaker 1:And now this is where this is going to start getting dangerous, because Black Panther then came out after this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is where Marvel enters, like the untouchableness From shit. You get Civil War, Doctor Strange, Guardians 2, Homecoming Ragnarok, Black Panther, and then we'll get to Infinity War. That's probably the best run that this franchise can ever be on.
Speaker 1:It's above Ragnarok, under Civil War. There's a lot going on with this movie. In a good way. Yes, it's so tough because, just to lead off with the things that you can leave or take I mean the we also did a retrospective on this too Right. I mean the we also did a retrospective on this too right the leave stuff is like some of the cgi is very questionable, which is really disappointing.
Speaker 2:The third act cgi in particular. Yeah, with, like they do, the fight on the vibranium bridge.
Speaker 1:It's so sad how like I wish they would have want more practical, and I would, even if they were outside of the suits and directed by Ryan Coogler, by the way. Yes, absolutely monumental, ryan Coogler, his the next 20 to 30 years of his career gonna be literal definers of the way that we've used you can probably pick any episode of this podcast and in some shape or form, we're praising Ryan Coogler for something, but Chadwick Boseman is the best a movie.
Speaker 1:So good that the team up movie had to take place in the world that they built. In this movie the score is phenomenal.
Speaker 2:I mean what this movie does culturally.
Speaker 1:Yep, the highest grossing Marvel movie to that point.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy. So what are you saying? You're saying after Civil War, but ahead of Ragnarok. I think that's probably fair when we get to the end of this list at some point. Pantheon movies of the MCU. Black Panther is one of them. Yep, oh no, captain Marvel then came out Huh no, we're at Infinity.
Speaker 1:War. Now my guy. Oh yeah, I forgot the Infinity War. Remember when I was talking all that stuff about? I know the order. Yeah, I didn't know the order there's like two movies there Infinity War, I'm just gonna shoot all the way. It's one. Yeah, I hate to bring guardians under that, but how you, how you even begin to pull this movie off? It's just here's my argument of this against guardians one. It does guardians one inside this movie you still have the freneticness of the guardian there's a little bit of like they get the guardians, like they get their own little.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, because it was the Russo's Coogler, john Favreau and Gunn kind of like worked together four way, made this film impossible and they made it absolute. Like Gunn wrote the lore for the Infinity Stones in like an hour because he was bored and he was like, hey, can you do this for us?
Speaker 2:he was like, yeah, I guess it was impossible, everyone in like an hour, because he was bored. And then he was like hey, can you do this for us?
Speaker 1:He was like yeah, I guess it's the best one. Everyone is as good as they are, I think, across the board. Shouldn't work.
Speaker 2:Everybody gels meshes incredibly, roland is Thanos. He's a Pantheon villain.
Speaker 1:And you're talking about any lore of all time? Yeah, yeah, yeah, cinematic lore of all time.
Speaker 2:It's Darth Vader, it's Thanos. This movie could have devolved into madness at any time.
Speaker 1:You heard about the Doomsday stuff. They're fighting on set and stuff.
Speaker 2:That's not good. It's tight. I don't think there's a dull moment in this movie. Everyone's doing something.
Speaker 1:It's the best that Zoe Zalzana has been as Gamora.
Speaker 2:You're just like you're not left wondering at any point in this movie. I wonder what this person's doing, because I feel like it's paced so well. They're like, alright, now we're going to cut back to Iron man, now we're going to cut back to Captain America. What he's doing, it has so many of those iconic. This is the first movie that did the theater reaction stuff. You know what I mean. This is where this started, where movies started becoming events, and you can just pick any of them Tony suiting up in the beginning of the movie, the prelude to the Wakanda fight. Captain America and his crew arriving on the subway station. Thor obviously arriving in Wakanda.
Speaker 1:By far the best Chris Hemsworth had ever been, and me and you had been preaching to the mountains. They're like who should do the? The Russos should do the. Find a way to kick Thor, love and Thunder out of canon and do the actual tried and true God Butcher story with the Russos and bring Christian Pell back to do it. Captain Marvel it's Ant-Man and the Wasp.
Speaker 2:Wow, there's a lot of movies yes, ant-man and the Wasp, peyton Reed, is back. I don't think this movie is better than the first Ant-Man movie, no, but.
Speaker 1:I actually don't hate this movie at all. I think this movie it's better than the Incredible Hulk. Is it better than either of the Iron man sequels? I think it's better than Iron man 3 and worse than Iron man 2. I was going to say that exact same thing. That's sad, because I like a lot of things in Iron man 3.
Speaker 2:You know my complaint about Iron man 2 is he just gets nuked. Yeah, what happened?
Speaker 1:His formidableness is now demolished.
Speaker 2:He lost your luster.
Speaker 1:Ant-Man, captain Marvel, worse than the Incredible Hulk? Better than Thor 1? Yeah, I guess, is Thor 1 worse than the?
Speaker 2:incredible hulk better than thor one? Yeah, I guess is it. Is thor one better than captain marvel? No, I don't think so. I think thor. I think this movie I think has a more was better than thor one. I think it. Just it looks better.
Speaker 1:I think it's a little bit tighter and I think brie larson's really good oh yeah, despite what the haters say, brie larson is good and this movie jerks she's not.
Speaker 2:This is. This is she's better. She's better than this in the Marvels, worse than this in Avengers Endgame. Yes, because she doesn't get a lot to do in Avengers Endgame. No, avengers Endgame, she's just kind of there, right, speaking of Avengers Endgame, this is.
Speaker 1:So this All right, so so you're talking about the most important movie in the history of cinema. Like this is like and I'm not talking about my film bros out there Like this is like no citizen Kane or fricking Godfather this is again another.
Speaker 2:This is infinity. War is impossible. This movie is the culmination of impossibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like in top gun, maverick, where, like they're just like we need two consecutive miracles to happen. This was the second consecutive miracle.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing. Here's the thing, the second act of that movie. Go on, if Guardians 2's act meanders, this one snail trails all the way it meanders on the back of you just being in on like nostalgia, yes, like nostalgia of the universe you're currently in.
Speaker 1:That's, yes, correct. For that stake alone, it's, I think it's outside of the top three. No, it's, I think it's outside the top five. Oh boy, I don't think that endgame's better than black panther or civil war, as much as I love that third act, as much as the opening of that film is really good up until they kill thanos, like I just think black panther's a tighter film. Civil war is a tighter film and you're talking about a team-up film. Obviously guardians, infinity war and winter soldier are better. So I don't, I just think it's it's better for me.
Speaker 2:Just think it's better than I think for me I think it's just. Is it better than Black Panther? I think is where I'm at, Because I think I agree with you about Civil War.
Speaker 1:You know what? I'll agree that it's a little better than Black Panther because again, it's the impossibility. And all the performances are great. It's the highest grossing movie of all time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't remember where that ended up between that and Avatar.
Speaker 1:So something had to have worked. Yeah, remember the buzz on that night. I will never forget that.
Speaker 2:It sounds like hyperbolic, but I will never forget that I told you the story about how I got the Thanos thing spoiled for me, right?
Speaker 1:Did we not? Oh, we did go together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like, because I went on the thursday, you went on the friday, I think, and I remember like people and I remember like, like you couldn't walk throughout like the theater we have near us, you couldn't walk through the theater. That's how packed it was you had to get there like an hour early.
Speaker 1:I remember this one kid was jokingly saying this person died and like people were like yelling at them in the theater, like if you don't shut up you're gonna get hurt, like.
Speaker 2:I was in the parking lot walking in and the show before we had walked out and one guy goes yeah, I can't believe Thanos died twice. And I'm sitting there like huh, what does that mean? And then he gets like the first 20 minutes and he gets beheaded. I'm like, oh, so yes, I don't love the Thor stuff.
Speaker 1:I understand it but I don't love the Thor stuff. I understand it, but I don't love it. But at least they make up for it in the third act, because at least they still make him awesome in the third act. They don't Ant-Man to him in this movie. He still is like oh, trust me, I still got that dog in me.
Speaker 2:I understand it. I don't love the whole stuff. No, man.
Speaker 1:And again the second act of that movie is so no man, which is going to continue. And again the second act of that movie is so it's like Infinity War's second act is this absolutely frenetic bridge. It is such a lesson in how to bridge the gap between the first and third act, because that's the comp right.
Speaker 2:How does Endgame compare to Infinity War? And like we said in Infinity War, it's impossible, but it's also incredibly tight.
Speaker 1:Obviously Endgame has the best third act. Yeah, endgame has probably a better first act than Infinity War. Yeah, because it's like Infinity War was starting. You know what I mean, but Endgame, you were already in there. No, yeah, I would agree with that. But the second act, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right it drags.
Speaker 1:It's how good it's like. The moving from place to place in Infinity War Second Act is really what gets it to be the best film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Infinity War had a bigger cast. Yes, because half those characters in Infinity War are dead for most of the movie in Endgame and it's kind of just focused around the original Avengers and Ant-Man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's fair, so five right now. And for some odd reason they couldn't make that the end, so they had to make Spider-Man Far From Home the last movie of the Infinity Saga.
Speaker 2:John Watts is back. Leave it in John Watts.
Speaker 1:You know how I feel about this film. I don't love this film. No, you don't Careful. I think this film is worse than I think it's better than Iron man 2, worse than Ant-Man.
Speaker 1:I really do not love this film. You know what I'll put it ahead. I'm being a little mean, I'll put it above Ant-Man, but worse than First Avenger. That feels right. I don't love this movie, man. There's so many things about remember walking out this movie going that was okay. I remember we saw it together. It was 2019. It was literally one of the last movies we saw too. Yeah, that's true. What was the last movie we saw before the birds of prey? Oh, that's right. I had a nice little movie run in the beginning of 2020. I saw 1917 and I saw birds of prey, a very underrated movie we both quite enjoy yeah, I think it's pretty good, yeah, I remember that specifically, that specifically, not that this has to do with the MCU.
Speaker 1:Is Margot Robbie going to just play Harley Quinn in the DCU? She should, she should.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think that's fair. I remember walking out of the movie going it was okay.
Speaker 1:I think we were like we had this wave because obviously you're off the highest of highs with Endgame, and then you're like that movie was a film. Tom Holland was good, jake Gyllenhaal was really good.
Speaker 2:Jake Gyllenhaal was incredible.
Speaker 1:As Mysterio.
Speaker 2:But it just kind of doesn't do it. No, there's not a lot going on.
Speaker 1:It's the Spider-Man-ism start to fall a little bit. The big thing, lore-wise for him out of this is his spider sense has developed it Like he's like it's really diving into the Spider-Sense and like how Mysterio plays on that a little bit Like he just got tricked. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. That movie also doesn't look good. It visually does not look good.
Speaker 2:A lot of green screening. A lot of like where they didn't have to is what I don't love. There's also a lot of like cup switching with like, the multiverse stuff yes, practical Joker, but like. And then the next phase was all Stuff. So like they kind of like did like a hat on a hat thing which I don't love right. This is where we start to lose, like. This is where we start to lose the fury. Yeah, period comes, he just starts becoming.
Speaker 1:Sam Jackson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's just not a lot of like. I'm just trying to like going to work the Rolodex of the movie. There's not a ton of like Moments that like I actively recall the best, the best moment, I think the only massive moment for me it's the spider sense thing where he takes that deep breath and he starts cooking.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:That scene I do love like even the culmination of like him and MJ's romance on the bridge where she's like you're Spider-Man, aren't you like? That doesn't really land for me.
Speaker 1:I don't feel it as much as I do with like Peggy and Steve, or and I think Noah Holm.
Speaker 2:Their romance stuff is way better.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's phenomenal Because she starts finally acting like MJ a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but just going down again flipping through the Rolodex of scenes, there's not a ton in there. I do like the complaint of the Iron Boy Jr thing but I do like the Iron man callback Him building the suit and they kind of the Iron Boy Jr thing. But I do like the Iron man callback him building the suit and like they kind of cut to Favreau and he's just kind of like looking at Peter, like building the suit, and he's like all right, you're my boy Blue. So I do like that. But I think no, I think that's fair Again, it's just not. It's a very nice paint-by movie, yes, in the same way that like ant-man is yes.
Speaker 1:So I feel like it kind of belongs in that richard linklater taught me about film that film is a secret. He taught you personally yeah, he taught me personally.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite directors of all time taught me personally that film is a makeup of sequences and moments like yeah life is a makeup of sequences and moments and, like you want to talk moments, I think this is a great list, list of how the moments make up great film. Yeah, so, yeah, I think. So Just shooting down the list super quick yes, infinity War 1,. Guardians of the Galaxy, volume 1, 2, winter Soldier 3, civil War 4, endgame 5, black Panther 6, ragnarok 7, avengers 1, 8,. Iron man 9, homecoming 10, doctor Strange 11, guardians Vol 2, 12,. Age of Ultron 13,. First Avenger 14, far From Home 15, ant-man 16, iron man 2, 17,. Ant-man and the Wasp 18,. Iron man 3, 19,. The Incredible Hulk 20, captain Marvel 21,. Thor 1, 22, and Thor the Dark World 23.
Speaker 2:Tough. Look for Thor man. Yeah, not great, but he does have a top 10.
Speaker 1:He's got a top 10 or got a top 10 but got three bottom, bottom threes so they're not going anywhere no, not bottom threes, bottom fives, because we are going to do a part two with the multiversal saga.
Speaker 2:So we did what 22, 23, 23, so we'll do 14 more next week, starting with black widow marvel's in the. We're in the pandemic era, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, it's going to get interesting because we have this is like the definition of the spectrum, of the opposite ends of the spectrum, because you get Guardians 3 and you get Ant-Man, wasp and Quantumadium and those two films came out right after each other, so that's not great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this, yeah, after each other, so that's not great. Yeah, this, yeah, that'll be, it'll be interesting, yeah, so, yeah, that's that's gonna do it for us this week. We're gonna call it, call it, call it a day there.
Speaker 1:Part one and part two, much like the multiverse saga and the infinity, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:I feel like those top five are just gonna stay there for the rest of this run no, oh no, oh no.
Speaker 1:I'm very, I am very hard.
Speaker 2:Stop that, they're not gonna stay there you really loved Thor, love and Thunder that much no.
Speaker 1:I didn't. No, I did not. That is the worst Marvel movie there has ever been.
Speaker 2:This guy loves Ant-Man and the Lost Quantum. No, I hate that movie.
Speaker 1:Actually, I'll never remember when we walked out of the theater because remember Thor, love and Thunder we tried to trick ourselves to think it was good and then we were like, wait that second half was good was it it was alright.
Speaker 2:Exactly the bit on the black and white world was good.
Speaker 1:That's it that's gonna do it.
Speaker 2:Beat some socials man you can follow us on Twitter at projectf underscore pod. You can follow us on Facebook. You can follow us on Instagram at the project infinite, to add the Project Infinite podcast. Next week will be part two to this MCU Marvel movie rankings. We entered the pandemic era. We entered the are we ever going to see these characters again? Era we enter, as Jonathan.
Speaker 1:Majors the best actor ever, and then is he the worst actor ever. You never had an opening grand closing. You're an opening grand closing.
Speaker 2:Don't listen to those episodes, no.
Speaker 1:We're like, yeah, he's the best, he's going to be the biggest actor on the planet and he was for three weeks.
Speaker 2:And then, dun dun, they did the Mr Incredible. Those who know those who don't know.
Speaker 1:This is tough because like, ooh, I'm really, this is where we're going to start to battle. I think in the multiversal saga is when we're really going to start to battle, on Cause, like I got some hot takes about some of these, some of these multiversal movies. They're great. Thunderbolts is great, that is a great film. Thor, love and thunder is a horrible film.
Speaker 2:Black widow is.
Speaker 1:It's okay.
Speaker 2:We'll get there. So that's going to do it for us this week. Careful man, what am I picking from here?
Speaker 1:The Infinity Saga.
Speaker 2:I can't say Kevin Feige, that wouldn't be right, that wouldn't make sense. The Anthony Russo of the podcast I don't love it but I'll take it. Is he the good one? Is he the one that everyone thinks is like?
Speaker 1:Should be by himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that the one? Or is it the other one? I can't remember. There's always a joke on Twitter about one of the Russos not being able to do anything and the other one just does all the stuff. I don't know if that's true. Whichever one is the good one, you can have that one.
Speaker 1:All right, could have given me Brian Coogler, but all right?
Speaker 2:No, I'll save it. Okay, I'm saving that for some other time. Until then, we will see you next week for part two of the MCU movie rankings. Goodbye Peace.
