The Project Infinite Podcast
A Podcast Spanning The Ever Expanding Infinite Multiverse of Fandom. From movies, to TV, to comics, to the world of gaming, we have you covered at every corner with thoughts, opinions, commentary and a little bit of comedy too.
The Project Infinite Podcast
160 - MCU Rankings Continued: The Multiverse Saga
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It’s Part II of our DEFINITIVE Marvel Cinematic Universe movie rankings. This time we tackle the ongoing Multiverse Saga. For all the bad, there are arguably some of the best movies Marvel has EVER made in this saga (Thunderbolts, GoTG vol 3.) and you’ll get to find out which one of us puts the cape on for The Marvels! This isn't just another casual ranking. We dive deep into what elevates certain Marvel films to greatness while others falter, examining everything from directorial vision and character development to villain effectiveness and emotional impact. Our conversation spans from the bottom-tier entries (sorry, Thor: Love and Thunder) to the untouchable pantheon that includes Infinity War, both Guardians films, and the surprisingly powerful Thunderbolts. Before that, we talk about some news and the baffling idea that someone said NO to Steven Spielberg. Thank you to everyone who continues to support and don’t forget to subscribe to download new episodes as they become available and don’t be afraid to share a rating!
0:00 Intro
02:40 James Gunn announces Man of Tomorrow
12:56 Steven Spielberg Will NOT be Directing the Call of Duty Movie
19:01 Damon and Affleck Reunite for The Rip
23:50 Marvel Zombies Trailer
26:55 The DEFINITIVE Project Infinite MCU Movie Rankings – The Multiversal Saga
01:54:07 Signing Off
Topic for Next Week: MCU TV Rankings!
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It's the Infinite Podcast. Go tell your friends. It's the Infinite Podcast, my God, it never ends. It's the Infinite Podcast with Rob and Court the Cube.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Project Infinite Podcast, the podcast covering the infinite and ever-expanding multiverse of fandom for movies, comics, tv shows, video games. We've got you covered. I'm rob, I'm here, as always, with court and court. We're doing a part two. It's a part, have you? Ever done this. Oh, we have done a two-parter. We did the two-parter with whatever we paired with our deadpool and we'll review. That was two parts. I don't remember what the other part was, but that was a part one.
Speaker 1:Part two sitch but we're back with part ones and parts twos we're doing part one.
Speaker 2:We did part two last week. Wait, you gotta listen to these out of order. No, but we're doing part two of our mcu power rankings official. The objective list, our list is right, everyone else's list is wrong.
Speaker 1:Correct, and that's the thing that I want everybody to take from this is that we're better than you guys. We're right and you guys are wrong yeah, this is the official list. Like we said last week, kevin feige greenlit this yes, he said, guys, we can't figure out who's got the best list, so we need you guys to handle this yeah, you nailed it.
Speaker 2:And then next week we'll do a list of all the mcu lists, actuallyuaries, and then ours is first Right, and then we just got to sort out all the other ones, correct? So yeah, so we did the Multiversal, we did the Infinity Saga last week and it was Spider-Man Far From Home. So we'll review that list before we get into part two, where we cover the Multiversal Saga from Black Widow through Avengers Doomsday Right. So black widow through avengers doomsday right. So we saw it, we saw it early, it's good, it's all right. We saw armor wars. Yeah, we saw armor wars should we?
Speaker 1:should we write the rank, the unreleased ones? What else do we got on there blade? Yeah, we got. We saw blade, we saw blade we did see blade, yep it was all right not bad it was not bad it got. It got weird at the end there yeah, when he was just like I, he said this this is one blade too many.
Speaker 2:And then I left the theater there's only ever gonna be one blade. And he said, hold on, hold on and then wesley snipes walked through what if there were two blades? What if?
Speaker 1:there were two blades and then the avengers theme started playing.
Speaker 2:It was crazy then that weird nightclub music. Yeah, the weird nightclub music started playing at the end. Come on, all right. Anyway, that's a long transition this was a long time into the news. So we do have some news. We got superman news. Yes, we do so. James gunn has already started working on. He finished, he's already working on already working on the script.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's already working on the script because he had the straw. I think he had the outline for it done. He was working on the outline, so I think it's now full script time for the superman sequel, man of tomorrow man of tomorrow. So this film will be called man of tomorrow. Do you want to just, gentlemen's, agree right now that there's no shot they call this man of tomorrow, that the studio is going to be like you're going to to call it Superman man of Tomorrow, or you're not going to have to go Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am looking forward to this. So the pitch for this movie I mean, obviously this is the sequel to one of my favorite two premier movies of all time, so that definitely helps out. But you know, just to see David Corden get back into the fold is going to be great. The fast track is absolutely insane. Sorry, steve Mouliou you, but the hashtag for this is absolutely insane. It's how movies used to be. Yeah, yeah, right, if you really want to talk about the superhero movies, yes, this is exactly how they used to be. Like you made a thing, the next thing got greenlit. You got two to three years for the. Remember when three years we used to be like, wow, that was a long time in between sequels, three years, holy crap. Yeah, but now this film is, you know, two years and I I truthfully don't think that'll change.
Speaker 2:I think they're gonna try to really keep that schedule tight yeah, and it also tells me that, like you know, he knew pretty early on that obviously there was going to be a sequel, so obviously he probably already had this rolling in his head that this is what he wanted to do, which is good, like when you're a creator and you have a vision, like of course, you should also be focusing on the next thing, if that's where you want to take it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's going to be like a dual Superman-Lex Luthor movie, which I also think is a great idea, as they kind of do the enemy of my enemy bit.
Speaker 1:Well, I think the biggest thing is, like it's getting Nicholas Holt up to that level as well too, because I still think he was the most phenomenal lex luther that we've seen in live action so far to date. He was absolutely incredible. But the best thing about his lex is you can feel there's more like. I really think he's. They're gonna try to work him to president lex and like and that's the thing about this universe is it feels so fruitful, it feels like there's so much potential in here.
Speaker 1:I've actually been reading the. I've been reading the Jeff Johns Green Lantern run. Like I have all three omnibus omnibuses and I have the blackest night omnibus ready to go and I've I've literally ripped off like 20 issues of that in the last few days and just thinking about the Lantern TV show, thinking about Supergirl like this universe is so rich and you can really tell that they want to really dive deep into all this lore. And DC lore has never been thought about to this capacity as an entire universe before, so I'm really excited to kind of see where this new threat will be. It's Brainiac.
Speaker 2:It's almost certainly Brainiac.
Speaker 1:It's 99.9% going to be gonna be brainiac, which I'm very excited for and I imagine.
Speaker 1:I mean I don't, I mean I don't know for sure, but I imagine that supergirl will also probably end up being a part of this oh yeah, well, I think the supergirl movie is going to turn into like a cult classic, like I think that movie is going to be really beloved. I hope, I really hope that movie performs too. I'm really, really, really hoping that movie performs because it's it's an incredible comic run. It's true grit, it's it's supergirl, but it's true grit it's it's literally the plot to that. I cannot explain it any differently. So I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:Clay face is starting to get some traction as well too. So you got clay face going on. Like I've said, lanterns is my number one, most anticipated thing. I just think that before I really thought that which I still think that show is going to be grounded, but I do think that show is going to be really big and bombastic and bodacious. Like I really think that show is going to really try to take a lot of swings. And if you would have told me that before Superman came out, I would have said, no, they're going to really try to ground this thing. They might not even put on the suits, but after I'm like, oh, they're going to do all the things. I think they're going to do everything. Yeah, I agree, because I mean you look at budget as well too, and you look at a show like House of the Dragon. Game of Thrones later seasons the Last of Peacemaker is probably one of the best episodes of that show so far.
Speaker 2:That was an incredible episode. I think the thing too is HBO is starting to buy in in a way that you want to say Disney did with Marvel Just thinking the same thing when they feel something is brewing.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, like they've never felt before.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I agree, and, yeah, rightfully so. I mean, this was we compared this superman movie to iron man in a lot of ways, in the sense that, like this is this is the launch point, like as long as if you nail this like nothing but greener pastures, I had, like we've literally, you know, this is this feels like the first time, and I guess it's not a mistake that it's also a comic book property but like this is the first time where, like the shared universe thing feels like it might actually have traction. Yes, in a way that you know, outside of marvel, you know we've, we've gone down the rabbit hole of of shared universes before and none of them have worked, which just goes to show you how spectacular the mcu is. But this one feels like it might stay, like it might stick around.
Speaker 1:I mean we all know what the true definer of this shared universe is going to be it's Batman. Whatever, the decision on Batman will probably be the biggest pendulum, that's going to swing in this whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's definitely a hinge point for sure.
Speaker 1:Because you have the two options. You get Brandon Sklaner. You let him play Batman, you let him be a bit more of a fantastical version of batman. I don't even really want to say fantastical, I just mean a batman that like is in a gotham city, that's like, you know, condiment kings running around and like all these crazy things are happening. But like I, you know, I love to use peacemaker as the leverage point for that, because peacemaker has been doing the most absurd of things. But then you get scenes where you know his brother is like, you know you can talk to me if something's going like. You get these super emotional scenes and these super you know. You know there's a lot of realism in even in a show like Peacemaker as well too. So it's like that's James Gunn's true power, and I think he can get Batman to have a little bit of both Like James Gunn's true power, and I think he can get Batman to have a little bit of both.
Speaker 2:It's the stuff that made the Batman animated series so great.
Speaker 1:Right right, Superman. You know what show I've been watching? For some reason I've been watching Young Justice. For some reason.
Speaker 2:Sure, it's a great show.
Speaker 1:Even a show like that, having that feel so lived in James Gunn is really a student of understanding how to propel these characters that are already in the universe and, you know, redefine them if need be, redefine them in the same universe that they were already defined. So I'm really looking forward to what this film is. April 2026 is when they're looking to shoot the batman. Part two is also shooting around that time I I see I'm I'm crazy. I still think that they're trying to. They're trying to decide if they want to. You know who? I think the person that they need to get on board is.
Speaker 1:It's Robert Pattinson. I think he was the. I think James asked him and Robert said I don't know yet. Like I don't, because obviously the Batman is very different, like it's a very different feel, but I still think you can find a way to get, because Peacemaker feels violently different than superman you know what I mean. But also it doesn't holistically like. It still feels like it's in the same universe. I just think you can find a way to get robert pattinson's batman in there.
Speaker 1:You can find a way yeah, I definitely, I definitely think so or you, or you do the other route, you, you just get a new Batman. You make that.
Speaker 2:I just think the detrimental nature of what that does to the Batman. It's a tough sell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's definitely a tough sell, you probably don't get a third Matt Reeves Batman movie.
Speaker 2:No, because you're kind of diluting your own consumer base Because so many people are not not gonna be able to wrap their minds around it.
Speaker 1:like there's two batman movies that's my thing, batman running around like one of them is violently cinematic and not saying the other one can't be or anything. I just think they're gonna try to. You know, there's gonna be a different feel to I don't know. I'm really torn on this because you know, obviously the Batman is. Is that my I think that is my favorite comic book movie of all time is the Batman. I adore that movie in a way that people I mean it's because I love, I love the cinema and I think the Batman is probably the closest thing to real life cinema that you can find in the quote-unquote comic book genre. But to have two Batman running at the same time is tough.
Speaker 1:We've never seen something like that before that's like saying hey, we have this Iron man running around, but also we have another Iron man movie.
Speaker 2:It'd be like if they released the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies at the same time. It would just be very confusing.
Speaker 1:Right. Or if, like Andrew Garfield, were to get a Spider-Man movie right now, right, you'd be like well, we like to say this all the time.
Speaker 2:People aren't like us, people aren't nerds that like obsess over this, like they'd be, the average moviegoer would be, so confused it's you know, and that's a beat, a dead horse, but like it's why the flash didn't work, because it was too like inside baseball, it was too cute with it, like they had cluny show, but then there were so many people that saw that and they're like what?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. Like batman now, like I don't understand, yeah, or?
Speaker 2:they didn't understand like the thing, because they because ben affleck was also in that movie, right, it's like it was and michael keaton was in that movie, right exactly, exactly so, like the flash is a perfect example of why this concept doesn't work, because people were like, wait what is happening yeah, you know, but I'm so torn because I don't want them to touch matt reeves universe. No I don't either. I think it should.
Speaker 1:I think it should stick around greg fraser, fraser, find a way to free yourself. Don't do the beatles movies. Do the bad movies. Don't do the beatles movies. Tell miss amandes to go get someone else. Don't do it is roger deacon's busy. He can do it. He was alive when the beatles were big cinema news.
Speaker 2:So here's, here's a, here's a question for you.
Speaker 1:If it's such a wild story, I just want you to ask the question and then I want to be, I want to be the call of duty producers, right? So if you, were in charge of of you know I'm going to close my eyes for this.
Speaker 2:A fairly fairly popular video game franchise, the most popular video game one? Yeah, for sure, and a director came to you, not just a director.
Speaker 1:No, no, keep going with that.
Speaker 2:Just say a director A director came to you and was like hey, I'm a big fan of your games. I think they're awesome. I would like to make one.
Speaker 1:Hey director, what things have you directed?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, have you ever heard of Jaws? It doesn't ring a bell. What else I mean? All right, stupid question, war movie, saving private ryan. It's all right, it's steven spielberg is knocking on the door, knock, knock. Here he is, and then, and then you, as the video game company, are like nah pass, what is happening? So, yeah, so steven spielberg, you might have heard of him. He's apparently a big call of duty guy, big and which checks out, because medal of honor and call of duty both draw a lot of inspiration from saving private ryan. So steven spielberg, big fan of call of duty, decided he would like to do one like, like a movie about Call of Duty and Activision the company that owns the property was like hard pass, because apparently Steven Spielberg wanted something as crazy as full control of the film and final cut. And Activision was like nah. Instead, we'll sell these Call of Duty rights to Paramount and let them do a thing.
Speaker 1:You mean Paramount? That did Halo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what are we doing? In what world does this make sense? I just talked, do you understand? I just was on this podcast last episode saying man, what a great time for video game adaptations. People are starting to take them seriously. Zack Krieger did Weapons and now he's doing Resident Evil, which is awesome. We talked a few minutes about Alex Garland, the lengths that he went to for this Elden Ring movie that he's doing.
Speaker 1:HBO doing the Last of Us, the.
Speaker 2:Last of Us Fallout obviously Fallout is incredible. We got this. Amazon's also doing a Tomb Raider series now that Sophie Turner is going to be starring in.
Speaker 1:David Leitch is doing Gears of War, gears of War, ghost of Tsushima with Chad Stahelski.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are filmmakers doing things with video game properties and it's awesome. And for the director of directors, like the godfather of directing, not even no hyperbole. He's arguably the greatest director of all time. It's just knocking on your door. Knocking on your door.
Speaker 1:Do you understand? I guarantee you. There were some studios in Hollywood that were like what are you doing? You have the greatest director to ever walk the face of the planet. And you said, nah, we're good.
Speaker 2:We're not comfortable giving whatever he wants. I don't understand man. It's so strange, it's the most bizarre, like it's. It wasn't even like a clickbait story either, like it was like major news publications were reporting on this that this happened do you understand what?
Speaker 1:having steven steven spielberg brings you an incredible cinematographer. He brings you an incredible composer along. He brings you probably the a-list actors that might not have signed on to this because they didn't want to be in IP would sign on to this. What are you doing, wild?
Speaker 2:Why would?
Speaker 1:you say no to Steven Spielberg.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:That's like if, freaking, I don't know. That's like if I don't know the NBA had a film. Spike Lee's like yeah, I want to direct this film and the NBA's like no, no.
Speaker 2:No, we're good. No, you don't get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all right, you don't get the NBA you don't get what we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he also did Band of Brothers.
Speaker 1:So it's so bizarre, a call of duty movie with him would have, would have yeah, been the greatest thing ever. It would have been incredible. What's your favorite steven spielberg movie? You had to do an episode dedicated to steven spielberg. Guy's the goat he's earned it.
Speaker 2:He's earned us talking about him on the broadcast, my favorite it's close he's. It's like the flash come on. No, then when we did that Fast and Furious episode and then probably Spielberg right after that, my favorite scene is it's tough, it's real tough. Probably Raiders of the Lost Ark okay, I like.
Speaker 1:Indiana question with a purpose of saying you just had to battle with yourself to say your favorite one because he's one of the greatest filmmakers ever Literally changed the landscape of what film is. And a studio said nah we're good, we're good. Catch Me If you Can. I think is one of the most fun movies that's ever been made. It's absolutely incredible. At that stage in Leo's career is kind of where Timothee Chalamet is right now in his career too, which is pretty cool, but I digress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild. But now I want to see what this See, now this Call of Duty thing is going to come out and'm going to be like, even if it's good, I've been like, yeah, but imagine if Steven Spielberg had done it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:that's the wild part imagine the guy that has the follow up, steven Spielberg possibly being the director. They're going to get some TV to do this. Now what are we doing?
Speaker 2:I don't know, man, who would do a good Call of duty movie steven spielberg probably yeah, yeah so you can't ask this hypothetical anymore, because they had the best possible person to do it and now he's not able to do it because they said no, so it's off the table. Hypotheticals actually off the table, but we did get a trailer for a Netflix joint Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are back which okay. Together.
Speaker 1:I asked Rob to put. We did like a little theme music when we do Court Cinema Corner.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The CCC, the triple C. Okay, we need intro music for that. We'll work on that, but okay. So here's the thing. Here's my little thing. The trailer looks great. Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, obviously having this At this point in their careers. It's like they're doing their De Niro Pacino thing. Is this only the third time they've been together in a film?
Speaker 2:Oh, they've done a ton of movies together. What are you crazy?
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think about the big, obviously Good Will Hunting Dogma, dogma. Yep, the big, obviously goodwill hunting dogma, dogma. Yeah, what else I'm talking about in like the last 10 to 15, like when they were a little older, a little wiser and half-life was making, oh I mean the last, like not not nothing really that recent no, like a lot of the stuff that they did together was in the 90s and that's what I'm saying goodwill hunting like they did.
Speaker 2:There was like a run where they did goodwill hunting, chasing amy dogma, dogma Jan and Silent Bob and Jersey Girl, and then they kind of all took a. They took a, I mean they worked together like producing-wise.
Speaker 1:It's because they got so big, like they both started hitting A-list stratosphere and like, so it's tough for the two of them to work at the same time. Yeah, what I'm getting at is they both got back together for a film, right? Yeah, yeah, this film looks very good. The thing that is so it's just. I just want to kind of talk about the change in the, you know, in the cinema going experience and you know the fact that if I would have told you 15, 10, 15 years ago that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck were in a movie, you would have been in a cinema the second that movie came out. Now you're talking about these A-list actors, some of the greatest directors to ever live on this planet, are now going to these streaming services and they're releasing these movies.
Speaker 1:It's just surreal for me personally to see, like you know, streaming, like with, like the netflix tag at the bottom of like a ben affleck and matt damon movie. That's crazy, that's insane. You see de niro and on a netflix show or movie, whatever he was in in that netflix movie, I think, where he was the president, like obviously scorsese was on apple tv doing his thing. Spike lee was on netflix scorsese was. Scorsese was on netflix doing the irishman. So it's like it's so crazy to see the change in the world and to see you know just how powerful the world of streaming has become. Like you know it's, and I kind of had a conversation about it.
Speaker 1:The thing that I think think is that Matt Damon talked about it. He said the thing that used to make us our money before was the residuals off of like DVD sales and VHS sales and like that's what used to drive your gross for the rest of the run Cause. How many DVD sales, rental sales were you getting out of your films Like you're talking about? You know billions of dollars after the fact. And that's just not a thing anymore because I can just log on to HBO Max and watch a film that I was in 25 years ago, that I forgot I was even in. Like the whole landscape has changed. So I guarantee you what they're doing now is they probably got paid less back then but the residuals carried them where now they probably get more of an upfront pay to be in these films.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just crazy. I just it's like I just saw the two of them and I didn't know it was a netflix movie at first, because I only saw the rip and I saw ben affleck's face. And then I clicked in and said ben affleck and matt damon, and I said, oh, that's that's gonna both playing possibly dirty cops or one of them's a dirty. I'm like, oh, this is gonna be. And then it's on Netflix and I was like, wow, man, this is crazy, this is insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild, but yeah it looks good, Steven Newton's also in this movie, tiana Taylor.
Speaker 1:she's starting to put together a pretty good acting career if you ask me. Kyle Chandler, who's going to play Hal Jordan, which I can't be more excited about.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean it about.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, it looks good I think it's gonna be good, anything those two guys are involved in I'm I'm in on so and then I mean, the last thing that I have is we got a trailer for marvel zombies which comes out in two weeks. Is it cool? It's pretty. It's pretty cool. It's a shame, it's like a four. It's like a four episode, like mini thing. They probably could have just cut this into a movie, I would imagine. But it looks cool, man, I like, I love, but I love what they're doing with the marvel animated stuff is the art style and all these animated shows is so different from one product to the next, right, whether it's x-men 97, whether it's friendly neighborhood spider-man, eyes of wakanda, eyes of wakanda, and then like what if?
Speaker 2:Obviously this is marvel zombies has like the what if? Art style, um, but even that Marvel Zombies episode of what if? I thought it looked really good comparatively. And this is a continuation of that episode of Marvel Zombies because you have the Ant-Man who's just a head with the flying, you got the Doctor Strange cloak kind of flying him around, you got the one-legged T'Challa, so it's like a continuation of that and it's just going to be zombies, but Marvel and I think that's cool Seems to be centered around, basically a few members of the Thunderbolts. So Yelena Red Guardian are there, shang-chi obviously has a pretty big role in this, kate Bishop seems to have a pretty big role and then thor obviously is in this blade, is in this, who is in this universe powered by the power of khonshu, so he kind of is the avatar which is which is cool.
Speaker 2:It's a cool idea, like that's the stuff that they were flirting with with like what if? With like cool concepts like that. But obviously season two and three kind of diverted from that a little bit and made it a little more serialized, which I wasn't super crazy about. But looks, looks cool, man, I mean characters doing cool stuff, cool characters doing cool stuff that's all you need is it cool?
Speaker 2:it looks cool. I guess the one semi-alarming thing is that mahar shali is not voicing Blade in this, which is a little spooky, right Considering. You would think, if they were trying to kind of keep him in the zeitgeist, that you would have him voice Blade, since he has yet to do a single thing in his Blade besides that voice cameo in Eternals. So that's a little scary, yeah, but other than that, it looks cool, yeah. So I'm looking forward to that comes out in two weeks. Are they doing all the episodes at once or is it they doing them?
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie, I hope for a show like that.
Speaker 2:They just do just put the whole thing on. Yeah, yeah, just put the whole thing on. It's fine. Any thoughts on that before we move on?
Speaker 1:I mean spider-man ripping off a whole bunch of zombie heads that's what I mean is cool as heck. I just love how the immediate opening of the trailer is like no, this is, this is tvma, we're gonna have fun, and I think that's the most important thing. Let them live, let them have fun. Zombie thanos is back. A lot of lot of thanos, or a lot of zombie stuff, is back.
Speaker 2:It's called the zombies. Call the witches back.
Speaker 1:She's a problem.
Speaker 2:That's a balanced breakfast over there it's gonna be like, I guess, maybe like the main zombie villain, which I like because it's like because I love the whole thing of like well, how are we gonna beat this now?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, because that's the. I mean the obviously dc has their own zombie thing, and the cool thing about like both those universes is like they're zombies but they all they still have their powers. It's like how do you stop the Scarlet Witch when she's totally unrestrained, right? So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. All, right, let's do this Part two. So real quick, I will go down the list, or go up the list, I guess, starting from worst to best.
Speaker 2:So we did 23 movies last episode. We got another 14 today. So, starting from the bottom up movie, definitively Thor, the Dark World, then Thor, bad showing for Thor. He got a top 10 movie in here, but it's bottom. It's not looking great for Thor.
Speaker 2:So Thor, captain Marvel, incredible Hulk. Iron man 3, ant-man 2 this is where we get our Iron man, ant-man back and forth. So Iron man 3, ant-man and the Wasp, iron man 2, original recipe, iron man. Then we get the original recipe of Ant-Man back and forth. So Iron man 3, ant-man and the Wasp. Iron man 2, original Recipe, iron man. Then we get the top or Original Recipe, ant-man, sorry. And then we go into the top 15. So Spider-Man, far From Home, captain America, the First Avenger, avengers, age of Ultron, guardians of the Galaxy, doctor Strange, and then our top 10, starting from 10, spider-man, homecoming number nine, iron man, number eight, the Avengers number seven, thor Ragnarok. Number six, black Panther. Number five, avengers, endgame. Number four, captain America, civil War. Number three, captain America the Winter Soldier. Number two, guardians of the Galaxy and number one, avengers Infinity War.
Speaker 1:We are talking about the best films, not our personal opinions on what our favorites are from top to bottom. It's like an amalgamation of favorite and best, but this is what we think yeah, I mean that stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean that stuff ultimately matters. It's part of the reason why I think, when we ended because we ended the last episode doing spider-man far from home it's why that movie gets, because we talked about, we talked about this this came up in a lot of different when we were discussing these movies, like some of these movies, and we did it both ways with spider-man from home, but we also did a commercial with guardians of the galaxy.
Speaker 2:We're like a good movie, objectively to me, has these moments right you can, just you can, snap back, call back, and guardians of the galaxy is littered with them yes, soldier has infinity war is littered with them, whereas, like spider-man, far from home, it's that you know you get that spider-san sequence. But then the rest of the movie is just kind of like it's okay, give me my throw.
Speaker 1:The dark world moments can't right, it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, what's a good throw the dark?
Speaker 1:probably the one scene where loki turns into captain america but that's not even a, that's a two second scene, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2:yeah, so like it's, it's you know. I mean there's some good stuff, like when you know Loki reacting to the death of Frigga is pretty, it's touching, but it's not like. It's not like Guardians of the Galaxy you know it's just from Jump Street and Guardians of the Galaxy, avengers, infinity War, same thing, black Panther there's so many moments.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm looking at this list and I really want to put Far From Home under Ant-Man now.
Speaker 2:I still think Far From Home is better. Tom Holland's still great. He's still great. Jake Gyllenhaal is incredible. Yeah, oh yeah. And that's the other thing too is the performances. Sometimes a great performance can bolster a pretty average movie, you know what I mean. And Jake Gyllenhaal I think we were all taken aback by how good jake joan hall was, as mysterio, even if the rest of the movie was just kind of okay, and there's nothing wrong with being okay, like I like rankings are weird. Right, it's like spider-man. Far from home is 15th on this list. It's still not a bad movie. Like, it's still fine and that's a. That's when you're doing 30, some odd movies in your franchise and you're 50, you know you get 15, 16, 17, 18 and they're all still pretty good. That's a pretty good hit rate, you know. So, anyway. So we finished with the Infinity Saga. We have 14 movies left and we kick off. This is the pandemic era, and we start with Black Widow, directed by Kate Shortland, a movie that should have just come out four years earlier than it did.
Speaker 1:Well see, I think we have differing perspectives, because the perspective from most, I think, is always this movie should have came out before. Right and yes. But my perspective is, if you release this movie before you don't get florence pew out of it, that's the danger of this film being released before you don't get one of the best young new actors to get added into this franchise from that.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of the penance. New actors to get added into this franchise from that, so that's kind of the penance you need to ask yourself is where does that make this film fall? I mean, you look at the full film. Like the action's solid. Scarlett Johansson's group is really good. Obviously, Florence Pugh is lightning in a bottle. So is David Harbour on top of that too.
Speaker 1:You feel emotion in this film, I think, see, see I wouldn't necessarily say the word underwhelmed. This villain has, or this movie has, a dangerous villain problem though and the fact that the villain is terrible drake off. You can care less about we're treading, we're treading thor.
Speaker 2:The dark world level villain don't care, drake off is one of the.
Speaker 1:He's a horrible person yeah, horrible person, one of the most forgettable villains he's.
Speaker 2:That's the thing, though, like he, the things that he does and that are explained to us are so heinous yeah and I still don't feel emotionally invested in that character getting his comeuppance.
Speaker 1:No, it's great that he dies, it's because and then that goes back to your point if this movie would have came out after the first avengers movie, when it should have? Yeah you would have been like oh, like, I'm like this guy's a pos and I want to see, you want to see him get his ass kicked. And then you know how did loki know that about? It's the red skull?
Speaker 2:thing like, right, that's what, that's why cats in america, the first avenger, is pretty good. It's because, like you want to see the red skull get his ass kicked, right, you know, whereas like this, like drakov does, like objectively horrible things to these women, right, and you still not, that you don't feel it. It's just like I don't know, I don't know what it is like. It just doesn't land.
Speaker 1:Maybe he's not maybe he's not in it enough. No, I think that's part of the reason. So, thinking about this movie as well, I think you look at the. This movie had the like it's like the bad version of what you do in winter soldier, where winter soldier is a full espionage film. This movie is this is the one that should have been the full espionage film, but they're scared of it to a degree, if that makes sense. There's a bit of fear that goes into diving full send and obviously this movie also came out in a tough time. It was 2021. It was the middle of.
Speaker 2:It's the pandemic, pandemic time. This movie got released for free on Disney+.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To the point where Scarlett Johansson left Marvel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was pissed. She was like why didn't I get? Like I was one of the original six and I didn't even get a movie. Yeah, I got a movie, but you gave it away for free, exactly. So I'm going to put this I want to see if we end up with the same spot. Better than Captain Marvel, worse than the Incredible Hulk?
Speaker 2:no-transcript movie um, action's pretty solid. It doesn't really have like a definitive. I'm going back to like the moment thing.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have like a definitive, like moment that's like a super incredible, but and I think that's part of the Taskmaster. And again, the reason I want to knock this under at Incredible Hulk is because of the assassination of Taskmaster.
Speaker 2:Which we'll litigate further when we do the Thunderbolts. So yeah, I think 20 is fine. Here we go. Here's the good one. This one's going to be fun. Shang-chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings yes, this is one of. I think this is a channel favorite Directed by Destin Daniel Cretton, who is now doing Spider-Man 3, which I think goes to show you how he was going to do Kang Dynasty and subsequently would have done. Secret Wars after that too, yeah so I think that just I mean it's a shame that this movie never got a proper sequel.
Speaker 2:This is a tough one. Never got like a proper sequel. This is, I think, this movie's good man, I think this movie's really good I'm not sure it's a top 10, but I think it's good oh, that's where I might disagree with you.
Speaker 1:Okay, make the case. It's worse than iron man one, but I think it's better than homecoming. And you want to talk about this? The moments like I knew this. This movie has a layer of beauty to it as well, too, especially, uh. And then you want to talk about solving your villain problem. Tony luang is incredible you know where it.
Speaker 2:I definitely think it belongs in this cluster. This iron man, homecoming doctor strange yep and it's interesting that it belongs in that cluster, because I think of these four movies I mean I'm just I want to peruse this I mean black panther's above, above the others, but these four movies we have ranked right now are the best origin movies besides, black Panther and Shang-Chi belongs in there. I think Shang-Chi belongs in there.
Speaker 1:Man, you want to talk about the moments. You know what I always like to say that this movie has the most forgivable third act CGI fest at the end. It has one of the most forgivable ones Incredible, forgivable third act CGI fest at the end. It has one of the most forgivable ones Incredible score on this film. The film looks good. The action is just absurdly good.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. I think it is about how I'm coming, because I feel like if we're doing battle points, you know what I mean the villain, I think, is like a wash.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because Keaton and Luang are both great and Mandarin.
Speaker 2:I think the leads are both really good. I think the supporting cast in Shang-Chi is probably just as good as Homecoming People can say whatever they want about Awkwafina.
Speaker 1:I think she's. Yeah, she was fun in that movie. She was good.
Speaker 2:I like the aunt.
Speaker 1:I like the mom. I think the emotional payoff in Shang-Chi is a little bit better. Yeah, see off.
Speaker 2:and Shang-Chi is a little bit better. Yeah, see, this is why this is fun. I like litigating these things. When you get to, it's easy to just throw them onto a board, but once you start the nitty-gritty, of this needs to be better than this or worse than this. But I think the way that we framed it is, it's not as good as Black Panther. I think I don't think anything's going to. I don't think anything Because how many more? We don't have that many origin movies? We don't have any origin movies left besides Eternals.
Speaker 1:And, technically speaking, fantastic Four.
Speaker 2:Sure, but I don't see any of. I don't see Black Panther getting eclipsed. As far as an origin story goes, I think it belongs with these other high-tier origin movies. So, yeah, I'm cool putting Shang-Chi 10th for right now. Okay, then we go on to the Eternals Directed origin story directed by Oscar winner Chloe Zhao. This was like a huge, huge deal for Marvel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this Marvel's like we're doing cinema now. It's over, y'all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they brought Chloe Zhao in. They bring in this ridiculously high tier cast.
Speaker 1:Angelina Jolie's in here, brianina Jolie's in here, brian Tyree Henry's in here. Who else do we have? Salma Hayek, salma Hayek's in there. The most different feeling. Marvel movie Kit Harington oh, kit Harington, and what's his name?
Speaker 2:Richard, yeah, richard Madden. Richard Madden, gemma Chan, kamal Noonjani, barry Hilgin. They were not screwing around, richard Madden, richard Madden, gemma Chan, mm-hmm. Just Kamal Noonjani, mm-hmm. Barry Hilgin. They were not screwing around until they went and screwed around.
Speaker 1:I'm so torn on this.
Speaker 2:I still think this movie's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Well, you know how I feel about this. You can tell that Chloe Zhao was shackled making this film. You know she was a bit shackled. I just watched the trailer for hamnet as well, too, the a film where she's no doubtedly going to be nominated for best picture and best director, and obviously she the reason that marvel was so incredibly like. Wait, are you serious that she signed after winning best director? She signed on to do this film and you see the bones of like this, absolutely. You know cinematic realm, but again, I feel like the studio needed to step in places where they should have. This film has another bad villain problem.
Speaker 2:In the sense that it's Icarus.
Speaker 1:Which could have played so incredibly well. I feel like when this film wants to take the massive swings, they go to start the punch and then they pull back a little bit.
Speaker 2:I think this movie is interesting in the fact that it's more so than maybe any of these other movies besides Thunderbolts. The movie is truly a character study and it's a philosophy study.
Speaker 1:How long was this movie? This is one of the longer Marvel movies, if not one of the longest.
Speaker 2:It is 156 minutes.
Speaker 1:It's about two and a half hours, yeah which is one of that's on the longer side of these marvel movies, and I think you know what people think about this movie is like it's boring, it's like and I'm like, no, I like this, like, I like this slow paced, but but it's introspective if you're gonna do that, that payoff needs to be so much more impactful. I think that you know I I often thought about this. I was like could have, could the eternals have played better as a disney plus show?
Speaker 1:but like a longer form disney plus show, like a period yes, like a period by, like era by era to period piece and like you start, you kind of do it like you kind of start at the end, essentially, so you start at like you know the eternal, like you we. You kind of do it like you kind of start at the end, essentially, so you start at like the eternal, like we have this many days and those are the episodes, and you dial back, like really peeling back the layers. But I think this movie was so aggressively against being in the MCU and it's weird because, looking back on it, I think this movie could have benefited a little bit more from being in the MCU. You know what I mean, like making it so poignant In a different world.
Speaker 2:This movie could have done what Fantastic Four ended up doing. Right when it's in the MCU, but it's doing something totally different.
Speaker 1:Right, it's doing something totally different that works. They wanted Game of Thrones MCU edition.
Speaker 2:Sure, they did.
Speaker 1:And did it work? For a person like me, yeah, it did. I still think this is one of the most underrated Marvel films that's ever been released.
Speaker 2:It's one of the most gorgeous looking Marvel movies we have ever gotten, I mean some of the effects. Work is wild.
Speaker 1:It's insane, it's incredible looking. You also waste what's his name Bill Skarsgård. You wasted him on the fake villain of this movie. You wasted him on the fake villain of this movie. Yeah, that's a good point you absolutely wasted Bill Skarsgård, which, it's funny enough, that's not the worst villain waste of the Multiverse of Saga.
Speaker 2:No, not by a long shot.
Speaker 1:We have a nuclear weapon waiting for that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean just thinking about this film again. It's personally one of my favorite Marvel films. I will put the cape on for Chloe Zhao any day of the week. This film's got some absolutely incredible ideas. Yeah, incredible visuals, incredible performances, emotional performances. You know you get a lot. You know it's funny, like my emotional performance. Mvp of this movie it's Brian Tyree. Henry, he's so good in this movie to the point where it's like should you have been maybe the perspective lead in this movie instead of Gemma Chan? But everybody's just, I think, performance wise. Everybody's great. I wish I got more out of this too, because I read through Neil. Who is it that did that?
Speaker 2:Eternals run like it was Neil Gaiman.
Speaker 1:I read through that Neil Gaiman run before this movie came out, like I was like man, they really have a chance here, like they really have a chance here, like they really have a chance to, because I remember feige's like we're gonna get this submitted for awards consideration right out of the gate. You know the film that they probably should have done the awards consideration for wakanda forever that was.
Speaker 2:That was the one yeah, so I'm looking at this list and I think this movie ends up in that ant-man iron man cluster I disagree with you.
Speaker 1:I think it belongs a little higher. I think it belongs in the Ultron Guardians 2, first Avenger cluster because to your, I think your, your thought process is like the things that didn't do right gets it there, but my thought process is the things that did it right should get it up there, regardless of the other things in this film.
Speaker 2:So I think it's weird because it's like on a filmmaking level it's I agree because I think it's filmmaking wise.
Speaker 1:I think it's one of the upper echelon but as a but everything else is just kind of storytelling perspective is where you really and it's you have to dictate off.
Speaker 2:Story is key story and I want and I want to give it credit for the ambition too, because it is ambitious.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's, maybe it's just under age of ultron and above first avenger I had it above age of ultron, but I'll agree, I think age of ultron has a more impactful punch. Yeah, so, and I mean again like when you're again.
Speaker 2:You're doing like the check boxes, like there's nothing in eternalsals that touches Spader.
Speaker 1:No no Like, not even close.
Speaker 2:No, but I think I think I think the third, I mean the third act of Age of Ultron is pretty, pretty spectacular.
Speaker 1:And I think I think the thing that propels it above First Avenger, First Avenger, I think it's, I think it is the filmmaking. I think the filmmaking propels it above First Avenger, I think the filmmaking propels it above First Avenger. I think that's fair. What do you got for me next?
Speaker 2:Am I going to get mad next or not? Yet it's Spider-Man. Spider-man, no Way Home, no Way Home. Yeah, this is going to be fun.
Speaker 1:I think this is where we have the biggest split in the road of how we feel about this movie.
Speaker 2:Well, because this movie in and of itself is divided and divisive in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1:Man, this is because this is my it's like my nuclear hot take of how I feel about this movie. Who talks first? Should I talk first? Should you talk first? You can go first okay, so, directed by john watts, again leave it in john watts he did remember when he was gonna do the fantastic four movie. He also he didn't leave it in.
Speaker 2:He Watts remember when he was going to do the Fantastic Four movie, he didn't leave it in. Whatever it was that he took out, he didn't leave it in. I mean, where do you even go with this movie? Because, this is the movie where, like this is the ultimate rollercoaster movie, the highs of this movie are like ridiculously high you're floating in air to even get an inkling of what you had in Avengers Endgame.
Speaker 1:This film did. Of this movie are like ridiculously high you're floating in air you're floating to because to even get an inkling of what you had in avengers endgame. This film did this and I'm not, and I will never be, in denial of how and how potent that is this movie, the highest of highs of this movie are like in that top five infinity war guardians.
Speaker 2:One winter Soldier class of highs. It's outrageous.
Speaker 1:But why does the first half of that movie look so bad?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a reason. It was filmed at a weird time. It was also filmed where I think they're trying to get away from it, where they're willing to make set sacrifice like set leak sacrifices to actually make a movie. This was a time where they did not want anything about this movie to get out. Yeah, Stuff still got out.
Speaker 1:I just so. I mean, you know how I feel about this film. I don't, it's uneven.
Speaker 2:There's no way to say it, it is lopsided that second half. It's probably the most lopsided that second half of this movie is.
Speaker 1:It's so disgustingly wild. It's the. It's by far the best tom holland had ever been, and I mean by far. I'm close to the point where he was battling with the other two like the debate was debating heavily of who was the best spider-man. At that point he was incredible as Peter Parker in that film. The I mean Andrew Garfield, just absolutely. He runs away To the point where people are like can we get him back to some capacity?
Speaker 2:He runs, and you're right, tom Holland does an amazing job, especially in the second half of this movie, but Andrew Garfield runs circles around these other two guys.
Speaker 1:But then there's just like a grandeur that comes with Tobey being there, like this unspoken grandeur that I really appreciate. It's just the filmmaking level gets better in the second half of that movie. It just it finally turns up. I just don't know why the first half of that movie is so bouncy.
Speaker 2:I think it's a. Honestly, I think it's a storytelling thing. I think it's a writing thing. I don't think they and it's a, I mean think it's a storytelling thing, I think it's a writing thing. I don't think they. I mean it's a tough concept to try and pull off. I don't think they knew how to write into the multiversal stuff of that movie.
Speaker 1:Not yet. And again it was Sony trying to play with Marvel's rules before Marvel even knew what Marvel's rules were at that point.
Speaker 2:And Marvel still doesn't really know what Marvel's rules are.
Speaker 1:We'll get there. Is it just above Homecoming? That's what.
Speaker 2:I was going to say and below Shang-Chi. That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 1:Man, I don't want to sound like a no Way Home hater, because the second half of that movie is so dang good.
Speaker 1:It's crazy because if the first half of that movie made a little bit more sense and was a little bit better, this is a top five movie because of the second half man I just when, when he does that little perspective spider, sense split and like the fight scene in the, in the apartment complex and, like you know, the, the arrival of the other and willem dafoe, by the way put in the best mcu, just stepped on the set and was like everybody, out of my way.
Speaker 1:I'm the best, I'm doing acting, I'm doing the, I'm doing high cinema. Alfred malin is incredible. Alfred Mullin is great.
Speaker 2:Jamie.
Speaker 1:Foxx is just Jamie Foxx.
Speaker 2:One of the most hilarious retcons, I think, in the history of movies.
Speaker 1:He entered a new universe and got swag.
Speaker 2:Don't know how that works.
Speaker 1:Goddamn heels. Sandman is literally shoehorned in. Not present Him and Reese Fonz.
Speaker 2:Channel favorite Reese Fonz literally shu hor den not present him and uh, reese fawns with channel favorite research.
Speaker 1:yeah, we love, we didn't talk about channel favorite arish from the judge when we talked about it. Oh yeah, we love arish from the judge. He should have been the villain of the multiversal saga.
Speaker 2:I mean I told you you should still wait for him to fight galactic oh, the hands would be right.
Speaker 1:No, they should do that fight. But they should do it how shang chi fought. What's his face? Wenwu yeah.
Speaker 2:No, not Wenwu, he fought. I thought you just wanted a straight Galactus era show and just Kung Fu.
Speaker 1:No, I want Daredevil hand-to-hand between, because you'd think it'd be some cosmic battle Speaking of Daredevil.
Speaker 2:Daredevil was also in this.
Speaker 1:Yes, he was man. I love Charlie Cox. He's the best, he's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, this movie is like the. This is going to sound weird, but stick with me, he's like the Shaquille O'Neal of Marvel movies. It's really good, but it probably could have been a little bit better.
Speaker 1:And that sucks. You switch John. Imagine you switch John Watts out with like a. I'm trying to think through this director list. You switch John Watts out with a James Gunn. It's over.
Speaker 2:They eventually did do it, like Destin Daniel Cretton.
Speaker 1:The work they're about to do on that Spider-Man movie and you see what Tom Holland he's like. This is the movie I'm doing, Spider-Man. Now you know what's funny. This is going to sound weird, but like I think that X-Men 97 Really changed the perspective on what's allowed, Like no, do the comic book-y stuff but still have it be steeped in human emotion. Like there's a balance that you've got to have.
Speaker 2:God, I can't believe how good Andrew Garfield is in this movie. It's just phenomenal, it's crazy. Like the minute he stepped on the screen he was like actually this is my movie now and I'm taking every scene Like the little stuff. It's the little stuff, like you ever know, like the little stuff. When these actors are doing little stuff, like just watch him, when he's not the focus of the scene.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's always doing something Right.
Speaker 2:Like him, like looking or like you know he's like swiveling his chair, yeah, you Just those little touches.
Speaker 1:I think the stuff that he does with Jamie Foxx is really charming. Max, max, max, I'm all tapped out, man.
Speaker 2:Goddamn heels.
Speaker 1:Charlie Cox and Andrew Garfield were roommates for a little bit. They were friends and roommates when they were both up-and-coming actors. Look at them both now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I don't think it's that. I mean, people are really really high on this movie because of the— Well, people, have this movie in their top threes, their top fives.
Speaker 1:They just said first half. Man, I can't.
Speaker 2:People excuse the first half because of the ridiculous stuff that happens in the second half, and I can't blame them, to be honest.
Speaker 1:They're like the 2024 Dallas Mavericks. That first half was all right. That second half, man, we went to the finals. It was crazy Rips.
Speaker 2:Oh, Doctor Strange is also in no Way Home.
Speaker 1:Well, that was. That's just fine. That's the studio ad. That's like the deal that they have. The MCU needs one more. That's why the Punisher's in Spider-Man 4.
Speaker 2:He's a bit of a dick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he hates kids.
Speaker 2:He's like these stupid kids, darn kids, those darn kids, those darn kids are giving him a lot of that. These darn kids are giving him a lot of grief. In the next movie, doctor strange in the multiverse of madness, sam raimi is back. They pulled them back in. They let him. They let him, raimi about for two-thirds of this movie.
Speaker 2:Talking doctor, strange yeah um, they let him, they did. They let him do some sam raimi things in two-thirds of this movie, and it's the middle third where they said stop sam ramying, we have to do marvel things well, this was also at a time where, like majorzard made his debut in in loki and we were like, wait is, is he cooking, are they cooking?
Speaker 1:and the marvel's like, oh, we gotta get this multi-first thing off the ground we have. Our take on this movie is that if you just do, if you just let them do the, if you just let them do the Raimi stuff, this is an incredible Marvel horror movie. Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:There's so many Raimi-isms in this movie that work.
Speaker 1:I love like the whole, like the whole idea that like shut up, you shut up, like the, whatever, the. What do you call the new generation of kids? What do you call them? Zoomers, zoomers or whatever they are? They're like shut up, zoomers, you don't know what real cinema they were like. That's a stupid transition where wong was like you don't know anything, shut up, you don't know anything you've never seen evil dead yeah, you've never seen evil dead there's.
Speaker 2:So there's so many evil dead isms he like he pays homage to himself, which which I think is awesome.
Speaker 1:The zombie strange bit is so freaking, good it's great.
Speaker 2:The stuff that he does with the Scarlet Witch is crazy.
Speaker 1:Which is even more insane because, character arc wise, it's probably one of the worst things about this film is that they didn't watch WandaVision, and the conceit is she read the Darkhold which, on paper, you have to Don't open it.
Speaker 2:Don't open that book. We're bringing this bit back.
Speaker 1:The book of what is it? The book of Ashanti? Open that book. That book rocks. Don't open. It's called the Book of the Damned for a reason. Don't open that book. She opened it. You know what happens when you open that book you get damned alternate universe doctor strange, also opened the dark hole guys stop opening the book.
Speaker 2:We gotta talk about the Illuminati real quick. The Illuminati, why it's they? Just they tried to do it. They tried to do the thing people were. This is the worst version of this thing, until the flash came out.
Speaker 1:It's insane cause like fan cast, favorite Krasinski. If that went right, Watts would have kept the Fantastic Four and Krasinski and Emily Blunt would have been in that movie. I would put any amount of money You're probably right If that would have went right and like audiences would have been like this is the. They finally did it. Watts would have still been directing that movie and then it would have been John Krasinski being Reed Richards. It would have been like John Krasinski, Emily Blunt, like Dacre Montgomery or something like that.
Speaker 1:It would have been something along those lines.
Speaker 2:Industry plant. Captain Carter is in this movie. You hate Captain Carter.
Speaker 1:I don't hate Captain Carter. Yes, you do.
Speaker 2:I hate what they did to that character after that first episode of what If, when I was like oh, she's like a fun roguish captain america. Now she's god, now she's just captain.
Speaker 2:That yeah, yeah and they just made her british captain america and I'm just like. That wasn't what I liked about her. No, what I liked about her was she's kind of a dick like with the super soldier powers, whereas this she's like I could do this all day and great like. No, that's not what we liked about you, captain carter. She's in this professor x. I think he's fine. He's the best that he could be. He does all the great professor x-isms. He gets in your head and then he dies. Yeah, classic professor x gets his face ripped in half or whatever happens there it's.
Speaker 1:Is it better than age of ultron, using the same Eternals logic? That the things that this movie does good, it does great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it does a lot of things better than Age of Ultron, because, man, that Illuminati stuff is wildly bad. I just don't like it. I like them all getting melted, yeah, murdered.
Speaker 1:That's pretty fun. Yeah, Elizabeth Olsen's she's great. It was to the point where people were like, make her the main character of this entire thing. And yes, I'm still saying that.
Speaker 2:I'll beat that drum until I die. I don't know, man. I like Age of Ultron. I think it's better than Age of Ultron. You think so. I think everyone on the whole like main character. I think Xochitl Gomez is great. I why she's not doing more stuff it was it's odd, it's odd. I, I think that's so odd like she was fun, like I liked her and somebody made a great point.
Speaker 1:You're doing a thing called the multiversal saga, and a character that can literally open doors to the multiverse has just not been seen, and in three years yeah, it's nuts and she's like not coming back for like anything no no and she's like she's a pretty marketable star yeah, I don't know't know. She was on Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2:She won. Oh, she won. She did win. Dancing with the Stars yeah, she's young. I feel like she fits right into that.
Speaker 1:They should have fast-tracked the Young Avengers thing immediately. Her, Kamala Khan, Kate Bishop, they had literally a wicked in speed.
Speaker 2:Who would not? Would you not sign up for a movie that had Xochitl Gomez, amon Vellani and Haley Seinfeld in it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you add the twins, you add Elijah Bradley to that, and then your big red herring in that film is that Elizabeth Olsen's in that film and you're like what the I think it's better than Angel of Ultron, but not better than Guardians 2.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll agree, there's some cool stuff in that when he fights the other. Doctor Strange, oh yeah, people were mad at that.
Speaker 1:I loved it Shut up Zoomers.
Speaker 2:You don't know anything. You don't know how magic works. Magic is goofy and fun and cool.
Speaker 1:Yes, because people think magic has to be a light beam of some sort. No, it could be music. He's the master of the mystic arts. Of course he can fight with sheet music, he freaks and. And wong is the best. Oh, a channel favorite, not channel well, channel favorite benedict or benedict wong, but mcu wong is the. He's my goat. Holy crap, he's good. I love that. He's the sorcerer supreme.
Speaker 1:Now, because dr strange is a jerk the one also shows up in chong chi yes, he does, and he's great and he's the leader of the avengers question mark, apparently. What's next?
Speaker 2:oh, here we go.
Speaker 1:It's starting. What's next? Just tell me, is it ant-man? No, it's thor love and thunder oh my god, oh my gosh, can we make this quick? Can we just make it quick?
Speaker 2:no, because this is, this is a fascinating movie. Hmm, because do you remember the first trailer? Yeah, it was cool and we were like he's done it again.
Speaker 1:It's the only one of the original six to get a to get a follow up film post fan game yeah a fourth movie. Hemsworth looked locked in, and then, by some grace of an, absolute god.
Speaker 2:Natalie portman's coming back right and you're like that's awesome they're doing the mighty thor thing they're like what portman's back.
Speaker 1:They're gonna do like a you know, a pretty big character from modern comics. And then christian bale said I'm gonna play russell crowe and russell, crowe's, zeus, and they were like and and Christian Bale's, like. You know what? I'll play one of the coolest single Marvel villains that's ever been created Gore, the God Butcher. Everything sounds great, and you know what Taika Waititi said I don't care, I'm going on vacation, I'm going to have a vacation.
Speaker 2:I'm doing a vanity project.
Speaker 1:I'm doing a vanity product. You know what?
Speaker 2:I, I'm going to make a comedy, I'm going to stop caring about anything. What a turn this guy has taken. I don't understand it. You know how much I hate this film.
Speaker 1:I hate it so much it's wild it's so bad, I can't stand this movie.
Speaker 2:I would almost rather it not have had the good bits that it had the one good bit that it had. It's got a couple good bits. I think the Jane Foster stuff is good With her battling cancer. I think that stuff is really good. They didn't hammer it home nearly hard enough.
Speaker 1:The first act is Fine. Fine, the Guardians of the Galaxy are also in this movie and they're caricatures of themselves. That drives me crazy. You should have just got James Gunn just to direct it, or just help be on the set for those bits.
Speaker 2:You talk about a director that has no clue what he's doing with characters. Taika Waititi, I don't think, had any clue what to do with the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Speaker 1:No no, which I don't think is totally his fault. I think the studio was so happy with Ragnarok, where they were like obviously you're getting the next one, you know you. Obviously you're getting the next one, you know you're getting they made the right call, because why wouldn't you?
Speaker 2:no, I resurrected thor?
Speaker 1:no, and you've quickly. They quickly realized that the roosters are the only ones that truthfully understand thor as a character yes, ragnarok is as good as it is because the humor works and the reset it was a hard reset on the character, the humor works in a way that the humor in this doesn't work. Even though look self-abashed.
Speaker 2:Sucker for a screaming goats gag.
Speaker 1:It gets me, I don't care. Gore the God Butcher is one of the most. He is the most wasted villain, or he's the biggest waste of a villain in this entire universe. You cannot give me one movie with a bigger waste of a villain. Even it's worse than Taskmaster Bad.
Speaker 2:It's weird because he's like a compelling character and he's good, but they wrapped this in a dumb comedy movie.
Speaker 1:This is like a slapstick comedy. Yeah, this is like watching Grown.
Speaker 2:Ups, but Grown Ups is more endearing than this movie. It's totally all over the shop.
Speaker 1:It is absurdly bad. Hemsworth is solid. He's fine. He's as good as he can be. Natalie Portman's good, tessa Thompson's good. It's too much Korg. This movie looks horrible. It is a disgusting movie to look at.
Speaker 2:It's too much Korg, too much Korg, too much Korg. Which again, tiger Woods, he voices Korg, so he was like self-insert.
Speaker 1:The Zeus stuff sucks, it's not great. The lore in this movie is horrible. This is some of the worst lore I've seen in a Marvel movie. So is it? It's the worst one?
Speaker 2:I don't care, it's worse than the Dark World, yep.
Speaker 1:At least I think that Thor the Dark World gave some sort of effort.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 1:This is the worst Marvel movie because it's aggressively bad. Thor the Dark World is not intentionally aggressively bad. This is an intentionally aggressively bad film.
Speaker 2:It is trying to be a bad film. It's not Joker 2. Oh God, Talk about a movie being intentionally bad.
Speaker 1:I saw that on my birthday. What was I thinking? Why is there always a Joker movie for my birthday? Why is that always my birthday it's?
Speaker 2:kind of funny. Todd Phillips is kind of a funny guy. He just fell off the face of the earth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he got blacklisted for making an intentionally bad film, but he took it into his own hands and I respect it. He said I'm going on a Fiji island island.
Speaker 2:I'm never talking to anybody again why'd you make the first one then, if he was never the joke? Never mind, I'm not really getting that movie.
Speaker 1:All right, we get a good one now we get oh, yeah, yes, yes, this is where I'm gonna start to get. This is where my list is gonna get real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so black panther, wakanda, forever man. This movie, this is. I don't feels unfair to compare it to anything else on this list, because it's also not for the same reasons as Infinity War. This movie is also impossible.
Speaker 1:And you're talking about in the landscape of filmmaking. You're talking about being in the middle of a franchise and your main actor passes away. What, in the most famous universe? What do you do? What are you even supposed to think about doing?
Speaker 2:And it's by the grace of God, honestly, that Ryan Coogler is the one that is handling this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is where because I remember we talked I don't even know if we talked about it on here when we talked I think me and you were just talking about Sinners and like I always beg that question does Ryan Coogler have the like? I knew he was a really good filmmaker but I didn't know if he had the gear to get him. And then I saw sinners and I was like, and I was like, wait a minute. I saw Wakanda forever. He did have the gear of like dog he. This film is disgustingly good. I think this is and I have no problems with this movie.
Speaker 1:I tonally it's. It's structured. The structure of this film looks good. It's what it is autumn durald archipa shooting this movie. It's one of the most beautiful looking marvel movies we have ever gotten. They were shooting on anamorphics. The storytelling and the writing is phenomenal. You want to talk about the emotional punches in this film. You know what was it.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about solving your villain problem with namor god he gets performances out of this cast you wouldn't have gotten like across the board. Yeah, as I mean the fact that he got an oscar-worthy performance out of angela bassett.
Speaker 1:Not that that's amazing but like no, not oscar, the one she should have won that year this should have been marvel's oscar yep, they should.
Speaker 2:She should have won that year if they could have gotten. I mean this. I feel like that's the thing like people don't give this movie enough credit, like this movie got an actor an acting oscar, a marvel movie got an acting oscar nomination I could have sat there, probably looked at that cinematography list and put that there too.
Speaker 1:This film is gorgeous, it's gorgeous, the score and the soundtrack incredible.
Speaker 2:The direction, absolutely incredible winston duke is incredible and let's right quiet moments that mbaku has with sherry in the second half of the movie.
Speaker 1:you don't want to talk about thor, love and thunder versus this. Coming out back to that like you're talking about doing the same thing, where you have these characters you already established and you have the funny one and you're like it's the thing that it's funny because Drax has this problem that Korg has from the first to the second one, where he starts to become a bumbling idiot out of it, and Scott Lang has it. They do the reverse for M'Baku. M'baku still has his funny moments, but he's like he turns into like an older brother and then I mean, let's get to what I we, I kind of agree is one of the best performances in this universe. It's leticia right in the second film was it's one of the best performances in this entire universe in one way she floats the line of grief and rage is so well written some of the original six avengers don't even get storytelling like this it's real
Speaker 2:see that's the thing. Like she's not. Even when she assumes the mantle of black panther, she's still not. That's why it's so like. Even like the deployment of killmonger in this movie is tremendous. He's there as a representation of her darker angels, where she's assuming the mantle of Black Panther for vengeance, not out of love for her brother.
Speaker 1:And she still hasn't really solved that either. No, and it also gives you a stark contrast between T'Challa and Shuri. Yeah, 100%, you know you can throw gripes against the wall for this movie, the Ironheart stuff, obviously the studio's like well, get Ironheart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Ironheart stuff's not tremendous.
Speaker 1:But it's still not bad.
Speaker 2:No, it's still not bad, though and also— Again, in lesser hands, it could have been the Illuminati, if you don't have Ryan Cooper with his hands on it.
Speaker 1:This movie looks so good. It looks so good and it's just powerful. It's an impactful movie. The performances I would die on the hill that this is the best acted Marvel movie that we've ever gotten. I don't think there's a better acted one out of this.
Speaker 2:That's a good point, that's a great call, like across the board, just like across the board. Yeah, acting.
Speaker 1:Like to people that go to Juilliard. What they would define acting is, I think, Wakanda Forever has the most of that.
Speaker 2:Danai Gurira is great. Koya is great in this movie.
Speaker 1:You want to talk about moments. I can litter moments from this movie the Namor's purge on the ship in the beginning of the movie T. The ship in the beginning of the movie T'Challa's funeral, namor attacking Wakanda. Their descent into Talakhan was absolutely breathtaking. To watch Shuri versus Namor at the end of this film what a third act point that was. You want to talk about locked in for a film with purpose and to pay homage to one of my favorite actors, one of the best actors on this planet. I'm sorry, it's above Civil War Under Winter Soldier. Just going through all these isms of this film, I think you're right.
Speaker 2:I don't think anyone on planet Earth would agree.
Speaker 1:Well, I know why, but I don't want to get—I don't want to go into this, right't want to. I don't want to ruffle. I don't want to go into this, right I'm. I'm too tired to go into why. Why I think people don't think this film is. We all know why.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But we're not going to say it. You want to talk about using the Eternals theory of filmmaking. I just don't know, I just you can point to a couple I like after the child's funeral, that bit with like finding the vibranium drill is a little the ever. The raw stuff is cool but it also derails just a bit a little bit, just a bit so like. And then obviously val is shoehorned into that. They're like that's what fine he's like.
Speaker 2:Hey, I know, you guys are trying to warn, but that's what I mean, like I'm trying to find better than endgame under civil war I think I want to agree with you, though I want to say it's better than Civil War, which is crazy. It's crazy that man.
Speaker 1:You know what I think? I'm conflicted. You know what I think too. I think that I always talk about this with the Last of Us, when Joel dies in the Last of Us and people are like we hate this thing. Now I'm'm like, no, you, your brain's confusing the hate for the thing with the hate for the thing that happened to the character that you love yeah, I'm just confusing those.
Speaker 2:I'm just personally and emotionally conflicted, putting this movie above any of the movies that he was in and that might sound weird and it might sound wrong, but like I don't know, you know what I mean. I could. I think it is a better movie than black panther, it's. Yeah, maybe we put it below civil war, play it safe, put it under. So yeah, I just, I don't know, I just feel, I feel wars, you know.
Speaker 1:Consequently an impossible film to make as well too. Yeah, it's a pretty dang because, like you're begging a captain america film to have to be an avengers film but also have the captain america narrative and it does have like good emotional moments yeah that, that third act fight, yeah the stuff with bucky and cap and iron man is really really good.
Speaker 2:Dog, dog. The stuff I mean the stuff chadwick does in civil war is like incredible. And I'm not even talking about the Black Panther stuff, I'm talking about the moment, with him and Natasha on the bench, him in the car, him and Zemo at the end, him and his dad. Yeah, I think it's a little bit below Civil War, but not that far man it's one of the best.
Speaker 1:We need to rework this list, but do filmmaking, and somehow Thor, love and Thunder would still be the worst one. Wait, maybe it wouldn't, be because what movie came out in?
Speaker 2:the beginning of 2023?. We're doing another bad one.
Speaker 1:Ant-Man and the.
Speaker 2:Wasp Quasimania. What happened here? What happened here?
Speaker 1:Peyton Reed is back. What happened here? Paul Rudd is fine, a little better than Ant-Man and the Wasp he gets a little bit of his juice back.
Speaker 2:But still man, I don't know what happened to the Hank Pym character in this movie.
Speaker 2:This movie is confusing man you can probably go back and find our review of this. I said this if this movie was, just if Janet Van Dyne was the main character of this movie, this movie is probably 5 or six times better. That's the stuff with her, the stuff that Michelle Pfeiffer and Majors do together in that first bit, the first what is it? The first? Like 10 minutes when they're. It's like his backstory of like how he ended up in the quantum realm is really good.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make a statement. This movie feels like a deleted scene. It's fun. This film is so odd. This film doesn't know what genre it wants to play in.
Speaker 2:That's a great word. This movie is odd.
Speaker 1:It turns into a Star Trek film at some point. It turns into a. I don't even know how to begin to explain this, what the landscape of this film is. You talk about a great villain, but this might be a good example of the reverse of your villains your hero's only as good as your villain. Your villain was only as good as your hero, and I mean comparatively speaking. Why is Kang fighting Ant-Man in his debut film? What are we doing? What are we doing? You should have had MODOK be the villain of this film and then you should have had the. The big reveal at the end is MODOK's being controlled by Kang and leave it there. Leave it right, the heck there. That's it. That's how you build a villain up.
Speaker 2:Thanos was trickled throughout the infinity saga until his debut and he was never made to be lesser than anyone who's on screen with yes, like when ronan, this big and bad guy with an infinity stone, still had to kneel to thanos, like that's how you still punked him, like ronan was like oh, I could do whatever I want, right then I said come here and try it yeah, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead and try watch what happens. And ronan was like oh, I could do whatever I want.
Speaker 1:They all said come here and try it, I'll let you try it. Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, go ahead and try it. Watch what happens.
Speaker 1:And Ronan was like gulp, yeah, I mean, it's marginally better than Love and Thunder and that's not saying a lot. I think it's better than Dark World. I don't even Again using the love and thunder logic of a movie that is intentionally bad. This movie is so horrible looking. It is a horrible looking film. They literally put them in a green screen for two hours and said have fun, run around, do weird stuff.
Speaker 1:No emotional payoff in this movie. I feel nothing for anybody except for Kang. That's the only person I feel something felt bad for him. Um, the kang lore is like again, the kang lore works so well when it's in loki. Yeah, the kang lore in an ant-man movie, I don't care, doesn't work. It's weird. I don't know why. Like, and it's such a cool and like you think like, if you want to like comic book, is like comic book, it right. And you're like like a cool hair, red herring would be like. Well, janet van dyne found this man in the quantum realm and then years later it's revealed it was kang the she should have just been the main character this movie.
Speaker 2:It should have.
Speaker 1:You should have. It should have the Conqueror. She should have just been the main character of this movie. It should have obviously Scott, but then she should have been like the point of view this movie's so weird dude. This is such a weird movie. I think I said it during our review.
Speaker 2:What they would have never done, but how the movie should have ended, is that it was a time loop, like you know how they play with that. At the end, when Scott's walking the street again and I'm like, oh, wouldn't it be cool if I could pull out and Kang was like reverse time and pretend the movie never happened and Kang was in control the whole time. They would have never done that. It would have been cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's above Love and Thunder.
Speaker 2:I think it's above Love and Thunder. I just don't know if it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's better than Dark World, Dude. But what's better than Dark World?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's Kang. It's Major is really good. That's it. Michelle Pfeiffer is really good and Paul Rudd is still good. She's solid, whereas, like I, think Dark World.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody is good in that movie besides Hiddleston. I don't want to do it because this movie is so bad looking. It is such a because. What are the all these narratives? What are they encapsulated in? They are encapsulated in film. Yeah, you're still making a film. Yeah, this is a horrible looking film. I feel like Peyton Reed was like shackled all the way, like didn't even get to put his finger on it, because this is the same guy that did the first Ant-Man movie. He's the only director in here to do the full trilogy, along with james gunn. He's the only director out of all these films to get all three films are his. That's wild, it is wild. He's the only one that got that little john watts. Oh yeah, I forgot, john watts got sony thing true but three filmmakers out of a 37 film universe.
Speaker 1:Universe got three films like the full trilogy to complete and they just progressively get worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, it's not as good as Dark World. It's not better than Dark World.
Speaker 1:No, it's just again. It's like again, you think about—boy, do I not think this is a Peyton Reed problem? No, no, this was a studio cutting corners problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They probably cut every single last corner to get Majors in here, which fine. I remember we were walking out of the theater. We were like why was Jonathan Majors in this film? He probably shouldn't have been the main villain that Ant-Man beats.
Speaker 2:No, and I mean that was always the concern. We had that, that concern going in like how are they going to do this and they didn't.
Speaker 1:So man, I can't stand. But then we get a really. Then we get another good one. This is where I might get Guardians 3. I don't think people realize how absolutely phenomenal this film is.
Speaker 2:It is the most Wakanda Forever and this are having an absolute battle for the most emotional. It's like Wakanda Forever. It's Wakanda Forever and this are having an absolute battle for the most emotional. That's what I was going to say. It's like Wakanda Forever, but it's got.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I got a hot take about this one.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:You're not going to like this one bit. Where do you want it? Above Winter Soldier? Ooh, I just, I want you to tell me one bad thing about this movie. One bad thing.
Speaker 2:I mean we're at the point like these top five movies it's kind of like Wakanda Forever. It's not like nothing's bad, it's just you know what is okay and what is great. I mean the Rocket stuff obviously is incredible. The Star Lord Gamora stuff is really great. We used to be fun Bullets to the chest, god.
Speaker 1:The Rocket stuff is great. We used to be fun Bullets to the chest, god. The rocket stuff is great. The rocket stuff is incredible. The villain is great. You want to talk about another heat check performance from a villain?
Speaker 2:There is no God. That's why I stepped in. I mean he was doing the acting he was doing.
Speaker 1:The acting man everybody's tracks is great. Nebula is great in this film. Nebula is so good in this film. It's the best Chris Pratt has ever been. Yes, it's the best. Bradley Cooper and I love and this is how James Gunna view to point the perspective to say that Rocket was the main character of this franchise the whole time. It wasn't Star-Lord. Gamora is great. Gamora is great.
Speaker 2:Gamora is incredible.
Speaker 1:The film looks so good. This is where the oddities of James Gunn not odd in an Ant-Man Quantumania way.
Speaker 2:I mean like weird science odd, it's still funny. Oh yeah, the humor still works.
Speaker 1:I love the narrative of this film. The story of this film is save Rocket, that is it. That is, oh, that is the story of this film. Save rocket, that's it. And they do it, man, that bit where, because they hold the, the main theme, like when rockets fully back ingratiated into the group, and then they play that main theme. I was in the theater floating man yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 1:I think that's fair to put it there it's one of my favorite Marvel movies I've ever seen. I mean, you know how much I love the Guardians franchise. Yeah, I think we both do. But I think you remember when we were walking out of the theater I was like man, that was the one man, that was the one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a fair spot to put it above Winter Soldier the Marvels. Yeah, let's talk about this one, because I think this is one of the more Directed by Neil deGosta.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think this is one of the more I think this movie's right in.
Speaker 2:It's in the running, it's in the all Marvel underrated movies Cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I re-watched this and I said this this movie's fun.
Speaker 2:This movie's fun, this movie's fun, it's a fun movie.
Speaker 1:I think people we know why people hate this movie. Yeah, there's two reasons why people hate this movie Because women, because women, yes, and now there's three of them. There's three women and a woman director and a woman director. We can't do this. That's too many women. Action sequences are good. Darben is a very phase one throwaway villain. What?
Speaker 2:did you say when we did the review that she was like if an NPC became the?
Speaker 1:main villain. Oh yeah, if an NPC, her origin story is because Captain Marvel's burrowing through the planet and she's just a guard on post 73A that just gets knocked down. She gets knocked down. She's like I'm the main villain now Brie.
Speaker 2:Larson is incredible in this movie. She's so good she's really good, I don't know if it's a writing thing, I don't know if it's a directing thing, but she finally found it.
Speaker 1:she found Carol's voice, she found the line and it sucks because we're probably never going to see that character she's going to be in. She's going to be in Doomsday.
Speaker 2:I hope so, but I hope it's this Carol, because she's funny. She's funny in like a way when she's still like she totally sheds the hyper seriousness that she had in Avengers Endgame and even the hyper seriousness that she had in Captain Marvel. She kind of I don't know if it's an acting choice or a writing choice she kind of pokes fun at herself a little bit. She's kind of like a child. Yeah, she's a teenager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially when it comes to the relationship between her and Fury, where she's like Fury, stop screwing around, stop being a dick, you know what I mean. I think she plays off the other two really well.
Speaker 1:And that was needed.
Speaker 2:I really like her character arc in this movie where she is so she's only knows I think I said this when we did a review like she only knows how to solve problems one way, and it's just like I'm just going to punch through it, you know what I mean Like she's just a nuclear missile, like she only knows how to solve problems like one way, and that's like destroyed, destroyed. And she kind of learns throughout the story that there's more than one way to solve conflict and she kind of learns that from the other two, like she learns it from kamala and like, you know, the innocence of youth and all that stuff and she learns it from monica in the personal clash and my favorite performance I like acting performance is monica in this film.
Speaker 1:I think she yeah I've always thought tiana paris was great in that role as well too. I wanted to see more after wandavision as well, yeah, but she levels up at the end of this movie. Oh it's so cool it feels like a moment. The post-credits scene is what, the, what, the, what beast oh, my stars and garters, is that beast? And it was kelsey. Grammar is beast. Yeah, that was nuts, it was insane.
Speaker 2:They're like oh, but he's CGI. Yeah, yeah, Of course he was. He's a big blue fella. Why would you not? Don't put Kelsey Grammer in a big blue costume?
Speaker 1:I don't know if this is necessarily a hot take. A little bit better than Iron man 2. Is that crazy? Worse than Ant-Man, better than Iron man 2?.
Speaker 2:I think it's better than Ant-Man. I like this movie.
Speaker 1:I like Ant-Man. I like that first Ant-Man movie, man. I like that movie.
Speaker 2:It's like small and contained and like I just feel like everything in the Marvels works.
Speaker 1:Darbend is probably the worst. The villain.
Speaker 2:But is he worse? Is she worse than Yellowjacket? Probably right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's worse than Yellowjacket. Yeah, she's worse than yellow jacket. I think she's a lot, because I think that darren cross is a little bit of like edge to him, which makes him a little bit more fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she doesn't have anything in her exactly she doesn't have a thing, but I like watching her get kicked around man, that sequence, that like remember our debate, we were like we think they had like a ghost director do some of this and nia da costa do some, and like the nia da costa stuff is incredibly her handprints are all over that final fight scene.
Speaker 2:There's a dog there's some wildly cool stuff in that oh yeah final fight, like when all three of them are working together and they're teleporting and like, just like kamala's like big fist big.
Speaker 1:Is that the cool thing to do? You cut the music and you let people duke it out. I feel like this. I like this movie better than a man. Sure you know what we could speak to? Why, oh what? Why what's after this?
Speaker 1:Deadpool and Wolverine okay, see, this is funny because, like I'm a hypocrite, because this is going to sound odd I'm much more forgiving to Deadpool and Wolverine for kind of doing a lot of the things that no Way Home did, a lot of the things that no Way Home did, a lot of the things that no Way Home did, but I'm much more forgiving to Deadpool Because it's Deadpool.
Speaker 1:This movie works, man Hugh Jackman. We said together you need an all-timer, you need an all-timer out of him, not counting Logan, because you can't, you can't count Logan in this situation. Just counting the X-Men movies, this is by far the best Hugh Jackman had ever been as Wolverine.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree. Better villain, good villain Solid villain Best Deadpool villain oh yeah, that we've seen Better than Ajax.
Speaker 1:Better than Ajax. Yeah, second one's kind of a tough one to put up because not really a villain per se.
Speaker 2:The opening is one of the best bananas.
Speaker 1:I remember you saw it a day before me, and you texted me and you said this is one of the best, and I was like I couldn't piece together what the opening could have been. That and it wasn't just you. A lot of people are like, no, this opening is one of the greatest openings. Oh it.
Speaker 2:Marvel movie oh, it's so good. The needle job is perfect. The opening sequence it's incredible. The opening sequence Ryan Reynolds is great.
Speaker 1:This movie's not pretty. No, it's not a particularly pretty movie, almost intentionally, yeah. Yeah, the void stuff gets a bit tricky. I think the void stuff gets a little Hand-weaved, yeah, minced, yeah. Is it better than Shang-Chi? That's where I have this. It's like the Iron man Avengers. I think it is Better than Iron man, no Better than Shang-Chi. Yeah, I think it's there. I think it's in between Iron man and Shang-Chi.
Speaker 2:I think this movie's really good.
Speaker 1:It's a dang fun film with solid emotional beats.
Speaker 2:The needle drops are great. Needle drops are great. Cameos all work, yeah, in my opinion. Besides, maybe like the juggernaut doesn't really but that was the intent.
Speaker 1:But I think the juggernaut was the one you kind of had to take a little bit more.
Speaker 2:All the major cameos work like the blade, Electra Gambit.
Speaker 1:The addition of Channing Tatum as Gambit was just out of luck field.
Speaker 2:That's the good version of what the Flash tried to do with the Nicolas Cage thing Right when we took this like Idea. There was an idea this casting lore but we're actually going to do it Right. You know what I mean? Right, bringing Wesley Snipes back was just.
Speaker 1:There's only one blade, only ever going to be one blade. That was wild.
Speaker 2:The cool thing about how those cameos this is why these cameos work better than the Illuminati cameos Is that A I don't think you could pick a better. If you were to pluck characters because obviously they use the Fox X-Men stuff, I don't think you could pluck a better set of characters into this movie that they picked. Like who would you take out and who would you replace them with? I mean, you can conceive besides, like if you did, like cyclops or like, but those that character, those characters were never gonna work. No, it's tough confines of this movie no, you.
Speaker 1:The only person that probably would have paid off but they never would have done it is. It would have been Ben Affleck if you added him as Daredevil. That would have been the most absurd act to get in here, but never would have happened.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't take out. I wouldn't take out Elektra. No, I wouldn't have taken out Blade for sure.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I wouldn't have taken out, gambit, because it was such a great idea, because you didn't. That was a secret and nothing.
Speaker 2:I don't think I knew any of those besides.
Speaker 1:The Blade one got spoiled.
Speaker 2:The Elektra one. I knew because I think they announced that they put that in Hollywood Reporter or whatever. I didn't even know about the Blade one.
Speaker 1:And then Gambit, we were like, is that Channing Tatum? And then I was like, oh shoot.
Speaker 2:Channing Tatum was supposed to thing in the x-23 which Daphne Keenan is good like the scene with her and Logan together in the fire, when she's like you're always the wrong guy until you, until you weren't, you weren't like that's a great moment.
Speaker 1:The ending of that movie always gets me. I don't know what it is it is touching it's really touching because that movie is a film about purpose. That is that. I love when these movies have definitive like themes and ideologies, like a film about purpose. I love when these movies have definitive themes and ideologies. It's about purpose. That film is about what is your purpose?
Speaker 2:Even Deadpool gets a little love, which I think is cool. I think the movie is fun.
Speaker 1:Both Shang-Chi Below Iron man.
Speaker 2:Captain America, brave New World.
Speaker 1:Wow, we're getting into the last few here.
Speaker 2:Yep, directed by Julius Ohno, was immediately announced after the end of Captain America Soldier.
Speaker 1:Awesome, we were very happy about that too. Usually does not happen. It is the. Did Marvel not have a film in 2024? Yeah, Deadpool.
Speaker 2:Wolverine that was 2024?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, wow, it was 2024. Yep, it sure was. That was the only film in that year where we were like, wow, only one film in that year.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, brave New World. I'm so torn on this film, anthony Mackie's great.
Speaker 2:He's very good. Harrison Ford is very good. Harrison Ford is really good. What's his name? Who plays Isaiah Bradley? I'm going to get his name right. I'm going to get his name Hold on, Because I'm going to get his name right. I'm going to get his name Hold on, Because he deserves. He deserves to have his name Carl Carl Lumbly. The Martian Manhunter man I. He's really good. The Isaiah Bradley stuff is really really good. Danny.
Speaker 1:Ramirez is good.
Speaker 2:He's fine. The villain is awful, the leader is awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. And also this movie got chopped to absolute bits and obviously some world events also had to play into why this movie got chopped to bits as well.
Speaker 2:Sabra is terrible, so one of the singular worst performances in the mc and we said this when the movie came out. Just the character is not likable you could cut sabra.
Speaker 1:That's the same. That's literally the. Why didn't you just put florence pugh in that movie, if you were going to do something like that, yeah, the character's just not likeable.
Speaker 2:I just don't like her. No, boring, annoying.
Speaker 1:Hater, don't like her yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what it is. The Red Hulk stuff is fine. It looks good.
Speaker 1:The Red Hulk looks good. The scenes that he was in did not look good at all.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no no Mackie, right before the third act. It's so baffling. They shot that on an iPhone in somebody's basement. Why is that scene there?
Speaker 1:Maybe one of the worst smart villains being an idiot. Characters in film Terrible the dumbest smart person. The post-credit scene is horrible, horrible post-credit scene.
Speaker 2:Sam Wilson, you had a 90% chance of not doing the thing that you did Dang it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he's the main character. He's got main character armor. The action's cool. Yeah, action's cool. I quite like the whole the freaking. The Falcon and Captain America fight on the ship scene. The surfing.
Speaker 2:The missile is bananas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is nuts. Okay, listen, steve Rogers, you were mad. Cool bro. I never see you surfing the missile before. He's not doing that. He got some extra stuff.
Speaker 2:I like how scrappy he is. I like how cute he is. Like he fights those guys in the beginning and he's like tired, he's like sucks great, it's just.
Speaker 1:It's the worst captain american movie, worst captain america movie. It's in the bottom half, like not very, very bottom half, but bottom half is it breaking that?
Speaker 2:is it gonna break in between that ant-man iron man cluster that we have built here?
Speaker 1:I think it's worse than iron man three.
Speaker 2:So above black widow. Yeah, that's fine. I think that's fair because you talk about the moments like. I think, like like the Marvel Ant-Man, iron man 2, ant-man 2, iron man 3 all have like like those are like like that cluster, like 23 to 27, like those movies, those are the fun movies.
Speaker 1:Maybe they're not the best, but like they're fun yeah, and like my take is that I think Ant-Man should be a little bit higher. Like I personally think Ant-Man should be above Far From Home. That's just me Like I think that Ant-Man is a fun, tight film, Paul Rudd's great.
Speaker 2:We'll put Brave New World below Iron man 3. Okay, it's like, yeah it's funny because, like the way we have these, the way they are, I think it tells me that they're ranked properly, because I could tear these off. You know what I mean. You could easily tear these off and they all make sense as clusters, all right, thunderbolts, here we go.
Speaker 1:Do you remember my reaction, walking out of this film?
Speaker 2:What was it? It was like this is the best one. It's not the best one, no, but it's really good it is. I think it beats Guardians 1. Wow.
Speaker 1:I really love this movie. I think Jake Schreier did.
Speaker 2:There's a reason he's doing the X-Men Perfect choice did, was there's a reason he's doing the.
Speaker 1:X-Men Perfect choice. I said this was a top three performance in the MCU in a singular film out of Florence Pugh Daddy, I'm so alone I was like, come on, don't do it, flo, don't do it, I'm gonna do it, she said. I said don't do it, flo.
Speaker 2:I think this movie's number two. I think it's behind Infinity War. This I said don't do it, flo, don't make me sad.
Speaker 1:I think this movie's number two, I think it's behind Infinity War. This movie's so good.
Speaker 2:I can't believe I'm saying that, but I think I don't know if it's a recency, biased thing, but this movie's so good. It is so good this, you know this movie. The reason I say it's two behind Infinity War is because I I feel like I would guardians one again to make sure you know what I'm gonna play this one safer and I.
Speaker 1:And it's crazy because you know how I feel if we were doing like our list list like what I'd have? Infinity war lord. I would have guardians one, thunderbolts, guardians three. That would be my. I think that is my top three. I will, I'm gonna do infinity war guardians. I think Thunderbolts is the third one, right above.
Speaker 2:Guardians 3.
Speaker 1:It's close.
Speaker 2:It's really close, oh I don't know man.
Speaker 1:Guardians 3 is one of the best films in this universe, so is this one the century?
Speaker 2:stuff is great. Lewis Pullman, all the character stuff works, taskmaster aside.
Speaker 1:But it's intentional that they just throw her away. I wish they didn't, but the Bucky arc is really. I love the approach for the Bucky arc because it's like he's a fully realized version of all of them. This is what you guys can get. You don't have to live this. You don't have to be damaged.
Speaker 2:David Harbour. No, actually it's not even you don't have to be damaged, it's okay to be damaged.
Speaker 1:David Harbour was like Winston Duke, levels of like. This character could have been Korg, or this character could have been like could have been Mbaku, and they chose the Mbaku route. Because they and it's David Harbour really operates between the lines in this film because, like, he'll do his funny isms and then it'll be like you know, you know, you know, wait, I'll be serious. Those moments where he's serious, well, you know what it is it's the relentless like optimism yes, and like those little moments when he's like.
Speaker 1:You know, you know, one of my most like, my most proud moment, like when I was the red guardian and the streets were calling my name and I had just saved somebody.
Speaker 2:Well, even when he's talking to her about like you know how I knew. I knew like you're like the best. Oh, like the soccer team, mm-hmm, because you always like you wanted to be the goalie, because you wanted to be the one to never let your team down. And it's like there's—he's a very realistic like overbearing dad, mm-hmm, where like he like is very funny, but like really cares about Not just his daughter, he just cares about people.
Speaker 1:Yes, he does. He wants people to be safe. It's funny because you think he wants to be the hero, because he wants the glory. No, the glory comes out of being the hero to save people. Yeah, and it's a line that can easily go so south.
Speaker 2:The John Walker stuff is really good yeah man. I like the layers that get pulled back with him, where he's like pretending that his life is great but like he knows it's not ghost is great, yeah, and john cayman is really good as ghost as well, too.
Speaker 1:I want to see more out of her, as these movies like I hope.
Speaker 2:I hope they do, you know, I hope they use her and utilize her val has the thing that, like I was talking about earlier with drakov, where I just want to see her get her freaking come up exactly drake drakov. I don't care, man, I yeah where's like val, I'm like, oh, I just want to bring your scrawny little neck, like she's got a lot of like lex lutherisms yes, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep where she's like.
Speaker 2:She just teeters that line of like she's gonna get caught, she's gonna get, and then she finds a way out of it. You're like I just want a strangler. Yeah, I think, like I said, the fact that I would have to, I would have to re-watch guardians one to think about thunderbolts being above. It is a testament how good thunderbolts is right. So I think three is fine, which brings us to the most recent iteration of the marvel cinematic universe the power in the marvel cinematic universe a little under two months old at this point.
Speaker 2:The fantastic four fantastic this movie's great it's really good.
Speaker 1:I mean, we talked about the performances in here. This is one of the strongest performed films in this universe Across the board.
Speaker 2:The four of them are tremendous.
Speaker 1:Plus All four of them, plus Julia Garner, plus.
Speaker 2:Ralph Inneson Right, right. The look of this movie is fabulous, it's awesome, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:The first half of this is just.
Speaker 2:The retrofuturism stuff is awesome is just the retrofuturism stuff is awesome.
Speaker 1:It's so cool, it's so freaking cool. Now here's my thing. I've deflated on this film just a bit, and I think it's because of that third act. Okay, I think there's another 20 minutes of this film that is somewhere in the ether that we'll never see. That should have just been in this film and I think it was more character work and I think it was one more action sequence, because there's no way that Matt Shackman was cooking the way that he was on that second act, interstellar 2001, gravity all the best sci-fi what was he doing?
Speaker 2:It's the last one, so I'm just going to throw a number out. Can we say it at the same time? Are you going to put it 10?
Speaker 1:Because I was going to put it 10. Nope, I was going to put it 8.
Speaker 2:You're going to put it above Black Panther.
Speaker 1:Or above Endgame? Is it solely off of how good Paige the Pascal was, as Reed, richards and Shaq? You want to talk about the directing thing. I think that's fair. In hindsight, I think that just thinking about it is rolling through it one of the best directed marvel films.
Speaker 2:Looks.
Speaker 2:It looks good good villains, great main team end game just closes out on just an absolute nuclear nuclear missile like when the freaking, when they do the reverse snap and people start coming back and they fight Thanos or they like Hulk snaps, the compound gets destroyed, the three of them fight Thanos, the portals, the big fight at the end to Iron man, like that's a nuclear, absolutely nuclear, last like 30 to 40 minutes of a movie. That like, oh man, I I think it is. Yeah, it's probably better than black. And the end game, that's tough, that's really tough because like I I'm not sure there's any moment in fantastic four that beats the last 40 minutes of end game. I'm not saying that it's, we're talking we're splitting hairs with two top ten movies. You know what I mean. So I I mean there's some really cool stuff in Fantastic Four. She surfs on a black hole that whole sequence is.
Speaker 1:it's one of the best action sequences in this entire universe. It is up. I was in my seat like dog. There is no shot. We're watching this right now.
Speaker 2:She surfs on a black hole. The Johnny Storm stuff is really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the best use of Johnny Storm in any film.
Speaker 2:I told you when we talked about the movie. I love that he went on this little side quest and he cracked it. He just solved it. He mattered man, he wasn't some like I told you when he did that when they do that scene him and her in Times Square and he like breaks her. It's one of the best moments in the movie. Brow finest, that's it. Is it better than Avengers Endgame?
Speaker 1:Man Pedro Pascal is. That's Reed to the point where I was like man. That opening of that film, like the ABC special, the abc special presentation, these are the fantastic four.
Speaker 2:That movie, I told you that movie I don't think I stopped smiling for like the first, like 45 minutes of that movie. But endgame is just this juggernaut man, even if the like this middle, even the middle bit of endgame that drags a little bit, is still really good, like when tony and steve go back to 1945 stuff with his dad is so his dad is really good, and then again like the last. The last 40 minutes is just absolutely nuclear. I think it's above black panther and under end game.
Speaker 1:Fine it's tough, it's really tough, and this is funny because I feel like you like fantastic four better than I do, and it's funnier is that I like Thunderbolts better than you do and we both did the reverse thing of you put Thunderbolts higher than I thought and you probably put Fantastic Four higher than I thought you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just that last 40 minutes of Endgame was bonkers, you were dead.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's the most impactful hour in the history.
Speaker 2:it's insane like I said, from when the compound is destroyed to the end of the movie, like it's relentless highest grossing film of all time. Highest grossing film of all time. I mean just the three of them standing on the ruins of the compound, like you're talking about 11 years of work to get to that very moment of like.
Speaker 1:That's how you do that.
Speaker 2:Like the three of them standing there and like Tony being like you know, it's a trap right.
Speaker 1:And Thor just being like Again taking a character that easily could have won either way, they could have just kept him as the joke. But they were like, no, like, no, like this is that's still thor, like yeah and the thunder claps and he's like as long as we're all in agreement, and like the thunder claps and even the little moment details of putting some tony in, like his, you know his classic iron man suit, without putting him in his.
Speaker 2:Like the, what, the, the, the or like with the, the gold calves, and like I love the, the quick little back and forth between Cap and Thanos, when Thanos is like well, I got to kill you all now. And Cap's like well, you know, we're going to fight you. So Cap wielding Mjolnir is bonkers. Like yeah, I think Endgame is better, like it's just there's nothing that drives and it's really understated in the portals thing. But like the deliberate I mean obviously Falcon flies through but like the first character that you see it's so deliberate is that it's Black Panther, because there's something about the way that he portrayed Black Panther that like he steps through and like as an audience member, you're like everything's going to be okay, yeah, I think we're going to win this one.
Speaker 2:Like he has, like this presence, like this calming presence where, like he walks through and he gives cap, like the like, the nod, and you're like everything's going to be fine, yeah, cause T'Challa's here. Right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like like it's such a cool it's such a cool, which man I'm just thinking about? Yeah, yeah, just in. Like that's the type of thing you tell your kids about. I was there when Avengers Endgame. I was in the theater when Avengers Endgame came out.
Speaker 2:Like Scarlet Witch, just packing Thanos up, yep.
Speaker 1:Why was she up there the whole time? Can I ask for one amendment? Okay, can we. I guess we both get to ask for one amendment to the list. Okay, that's my late edition ad.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I think mine funny enough, is going to be to put Guardians 3 above Thunderbolts. If you're talking about a pound for pound, better film God. I love Thunderbolts, it's tough.
Speaker 2:I just love the message in Thunderbolts. You know what I'm keeping it. I just love the message of like it's okay to be damaged, like these movies never do this. We're like we're not perfect and like by the end of the movie, like yeah, he defeats the void, but like it's temporary yeah, it's like a very like real, but the only reason the void's still subdued is because he's with his friends it's like a very real take on like how depression works.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, where it's like a very real take on like how depression works, yes, yes. Where it's like he beat it back, like, and like he needed all the love and support from his friends and quote-unquote family to do it, but it's still there, which is like what that post-credit scene also is about, right, where they're like dude, we can just you're the century, and he's like I can't, because, like, then the other guy comes out like that's, that's how depression works. Like it's like I have the support system, but at any given moment, like, and that's like that's so real, I can't get. I can't get that messaging out of my head, especially like I just re-watched it recently and I'm like me too.
Speaker 1:Yep, when it came on disney plus.
Speaker 2:Yep it's. It's so realistic and man, like none of them, come out at the end of it like fixed well, we said like the brave new world was the end of it, like fixed.
Speaker 1:Well, we said like the Brave New World was the end of the old yeah. Old, post-2020 way of you know pump out movies as fast as you can. And then Thunderbolts was the beginning of what I hope the new era is going to be, and they need to be on. They have to be on their A-game, like the way James Gunn's moving. They have to be on their end on their a game like the way james gunn's moving on their end game.
Speaker 1:That's exactly. I almost slipped and said that. The way james gunn's moving over at dc right now, the way that, like they said, superman just performed, it's the highest grossing superhero film of the year with. You had two marvel, three marvel movies come out and none of them outgrossed my movie. People were loving my television show. You gotta be careful like he. His big thing is like he's got to get that trinity right because you have to find a way to get that movie. It just remembering my brain. Gotta find a way to get that moment from endgame back where cap, iron man and thor were walking. The. The dc trinity should have that same feel when they're going against dark side in like 10 years. That should how. That's how it should feel. I that same feel when they're going against dark side in like 10 years. That should how. That's how it should feel. I should feel something when they're walking together.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm looking at this. I don't even know if there's anything that I would try to change.
Speaker 1:That was my only argument because of how how much guardians three affected me. But like guardians three affected me on like a in universe, feel Thunderbolts affected me on a personal level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think there's anything I would try and argue for or against. To be perfectly honest.
Speaker 1:My only thing would maybe be getting Ant-Man above Far From Home and the Marvels. I think that would be my only one. I think Ant-Man's under First Avenger. I think Ant-Man's better than Far From Home and the Marvels.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I can't get there. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I haven't seen it in a while. I can't get there. I don't know why.
Speaker 1:It's fun. I really like it. I like that first Ant-Man movie. It's endearing. I don't know the.
Speaker 2:Marvels is sweet. The Marvels is said that Far From Home is too high. Maybe Far From Home belongs below Ant-Man. You just bump the marbles in Ant-Man. I still like the marbles more than Ant-Man.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think that's fair.
Speaker 2:Alright, we'll do that. Far From Home is dropping two spots and Far From Home is the filibuster between this Ant-Man, iron man, back and forth. The marbles is just really fun, back and forth the Warfields is just really fun. I don't know why. I don't know why I like that movie so much. It's a fun movie. I just think it's fun. I like the action. Like I said, I think Brie Larson is really charming in that movie.
Speaker 1:She is, she's a princess on another planet. It's hilarious, they sing.
Speaker 2:I forgot about the singing bit. People had a real issue with the singing bit. I thought it was fine.
Speaker 1:They have an issue with women, that's true. We can all agree that Thor, love and Thunder is the worst one.
Speaker 2:Yes, all right. So we did this. All right, it's done.
Speaker 1:A dog just barked that dog. It's really upset about Thor. That dog really likes Thor.
Speaker 2:Love and Thunder, all right. So from that's how I really like Thor 11 Thunder, alright. So from 37 to 1. Jeez, they made 37 of these things and they're making more Spider-Man. Spider-man is next, wow.
Speaker 1:That movie's gonna be that first trailer.
Speaker 2:That movie's that first trailer's gonna hit like Absolute, Like that arm up, Absolute powder.
Speaker 1:Gun powder Yo, we get it. You like Thor, love and Thunder.
Speaker 2:just save the list before they get mad alright, thor, love and Thunder is the worst one. Ant-man and Quantumania Ant-Man and Quantumania sorry Thor, tough showing for Thor in this list. Thor, love and Thunder. Ant-man and Quantumania. Thor, the Dark World. Thor, original Thor. Captain Marvel Incredible Hulk Black Widow. Captain Marvel, captain. Captain Marvel Incredible Hulk Black Widow. Captain America, brave New World. That probably rounds out like these movies are not great sect. Then we get Iron man 3, ant-man 2, iron man 2, spider-man, far From Home, ant-man, the Marvels. That's like flawed but fun. That's the flawed but fun sector. Captain America First Avenger Eternals. Age of sector. Cats in america. First avenger eternals. Age of ultra and multiverse of madness. Guardians to doctor strange is probably like the underrated kind of. It's got some things that you maybe not like it's the most underrated one it's like the underrated group, underrated squad.
Speaker 2:Then we get spider-man homecoming spider-man, no way home. Shang chi, deadpool, wolverine, iron man, avengers, thor, ragnarok which is like, okay, these movies are are pretty, pretty good to great. And then the top 10, starting at 10. So black panther, fantastic four first steps, avengers, endgame, wakanda, forever, civil war, which are like. These are like top tier, top tier movies, there's really no way to put it. And then the top five cats in america winter soldier, guardians 3, thunderbolts, guardians 1, and Infinity War. That's the Pantheon and that feels right.
Speaker 1:Kevin, we did it. You're welcome. Yeah, that feels right. What Marvel movie am I going to put on tonight? Maybe it has to be Ant-Man, the way I've been talking about it.
Speaker 2:I might watch the.
Speaker 1:Marvels tonight. I'll watch the Marvels tonight. Watch the Thunderbolts. I've got to wait for Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four Can't wait to watch that one once it's properly released. Man, you know what's funny about this list? It's tough for me to watch Guardians 3. It's about sadness. Yeah, there's certain ones. Wakanda Forever I've only seen that movie twice. I've also only seen that movie twice.
Speaker 2:I saw it when it came out, I saw it in theaters and I saw it once when it came out on Disney Plus and those are the only two times I can physically watch that film.
Speaker 1:I cried my eyes out in the first two minutes of that film. I can't do it. I feel that damn.
Speaker 2:Maybe I will watch the Marvels tonight. I feel like the Marvels, even though Fury is just full. Sam Jackson at this point, yeah, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen. Thunderbolts is so good. Thunderbolts is incredible. Don't stop praying, amen.
Speaker 2:That's cool. It's just Carol. She falls out of the sky and cries to the ground.
Speaker 1:I might fall asleep, so I can't do Guardians 1. I need to be cognizant for Guardians 1 and Guardians 3 subsequently. I feel like, if you're going to like, you know what I'll do. I'll do Shang-Chi.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Man, it's the. Is Shang-Chi and Deadpool and Wolverine the best out of the fun ones? No, no those. This is like in the Like I think from like you talk. Guardians 2 to Deadpool and Wolverine, those are like the most of like the. That's the bulk of like the fun, but they got something.
Speaker 2:They're fun, but good and then, like Marvel's Ant-Man group is like they're fun but they're flawed.
Speaker 1:And then like I think from Captain Marvel, like the bottom five are like bad, but they got reasons to be bad. Yeah, they're just bad. Captain Marvel's the best out of the bad ones yeah, that's why, yeah, that's why.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Love and Thunder is because it goes best out of the bad ones.
Speaker 2:Thor 1 is like the most okay Marvel movie, which makes it kind of bad because there's moments in the bottom, the bottom three, like Dark World, clone, mania, love and Thunder.
Speaker 1:There are moments that genuinely, I genuinely cringe and that's why Thor the Dark World has the least of those. I would agree Love and Thunder has the most of those, and then some.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Quantumania is the most odd film in this entire. It is an odd film, it's really odd, it's so weird.
Speaker 2:What was Michael Douglas doing in that movie? I don't know, man.
Speaker 1:Bill Murray was in that movie.
Speaker 2:Bill Murray was in that movie.
Speaker 1:Wasted Bill Murray. For some odd reason, they wasted him on some character from the 70s.
Speaker 2:Bro loves ants. Ants defeated Kang man.
Speaker 1:You talk to ants and and then Loki, season two came out and was just amazing. We gotta do the shows. That's next. Maybe we just do this next week. If there's nothing that comes out of next week, oh, the shows. Yeah, maybe we just do the shows.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could do that. Are we gonna do the animated stuff with that or just the live action?
Speaker 1:I think the only reason we have to do the anime it's because of X-Men. It's almost unfair. You know what? No animated stuff. It 97. It's almost unfair, you know what?
Speaker 2:No animated stuff, because it would be it's unfair either way, right, like we can't do just an animated one, because 97 is so much better and there's not enough. There's not enough, and X-Men 97 is just head and shoulders above all the other ones. And then we can't do live action plus animated, because all the animated stuff would be at the bottom, besides X-Men 97.
Speaker 1:Which would be at the top.
Speaker 2:stuff would be at the bottom besides X-Men 97. Which would be at the top. Spider-man's got some stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I quite like the Spider-Man show.
Speaker 2:But I don't think it's really like Nothing's ever going to touch yeah, so maybe we'll do that. Maybe we'll commit to that. We'll do the shows next week the Marvels I really want to do a DC episode soon as well too, because Peacemaker has been man.
Speaker 1:That episode three of Peacemaker was so good, so so good Spoiler alert for Peacemaker season two. But Joel Kinnaman's back Came back as Rick Flagg Jr, which was cool. Find out that him and Jennifer Holland were best friends, and then some yeah, before he went to Quartzville, maltese. And the big thing is that the Huntress is canon. So Cara Delevingne's huntress, they they're still dating by the time he died they were still dating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, what a list. The thunderbolts man. Man, I love that movie. I love that. That is one of my favorite favorite comic book movies of all time. That's probably in my top five favorite comic book movies of all time. It's probably the batman, I think. Superman 2025, winter soldier, guardians, thunderbolts, I think are my top five. It's not bad. I don't hate that.
Speaker 2:Read some socials man yeah, you can follow us on twitter at projects nf underscore pod. You can follow us on facebook. You can follow us on instagram. That's a project infinite pod, thank you. You can follow us on tiktok and youtube at the Project Infinite podcast. I think that's everything. Yeah, next week we'll commit to doing the Marvel Cinematic Universe TV shows. Shout out Ironheart.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah man, I'm going to have some thoughts. I'm going to have some Ironheart thoughts. I was just thinking about Ironheart today. I really liked Ironheart dude, really liked it, really good stuff in that show. So yeah, we'll do that and see if anything is better than Loki. It's going to be the question. I don't think so, man, it's going to be tough, it's going to be tough.
Speaker 1:Moon Knight it's the most middle of the pack. Show that there is. It's aggressively fine. Tough Moon Knight it's the most middle of the pack. Show that there is, it's aggressively fine. You want to talk about the high of highs and low of lows.
Speaker 2:Moon Knight.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't even say low of lows. It's just that show just gets a little boring sometimes when it shouldn't have been at all. No, there should have been more Moon Knighting. It's not even about the more. Not enough Mark Spector spectering. That's the issue. I think there's not even remotely enough mark spectering in that film no, daredevil, that's gonna be fun, that's gonna be fun to talk about yep, but yeah, so we'll uh, we'll tackle those shows next week.
Speaker 2:We got our definitive list there's no more list that's it. That's it. We can't do. We can't do any more lists after this.
Speaker 1:We can do more lists, but this is the Marvel list. You guys don't need anybody else.
Speaker 2:This is the Marvel list.
Speaker 2:Once more movies come out we'll just add to this one Spider-Man. Based on everything that I'm seeing and the vibes of the Spider-Man movie, it's got a shot. It's got a shot to be at worst, in the top ten. At best it could be in the top five. It could crack that pantheon. Yeah, I like Ironheart. I like Ironheart too. The current bubble movie in the pantheon is Captain America Winter Soldier. It's in at number five. We'll see if Spider-Man can be better or worse than that. Right, it can't be, it can't be. It's one or the other. Come on, man, he's the better or worse, all right. So for me, from the From the Hmm, from the Guardians 3 of the podcast, All right.
Speaker 2:Right, that's very good Crippling depression. Well, no, well, yes, but not Thunderbolts level of depression.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's peak, depression.
Speaker 2:That's A-tier depression, that's S-tier depression. That's what we should have done. We should have done the tiers S-tier Depression, s tier no.
Speaker 1:Get out of here. Let's get out of here.
Speaker 2:All right, guys, we'll see you next week. We rank these MCU shows. Until then, goodbye Peace.
